Observations since the patch

[Ludvosh]

So I've played a few matches since patch, and as with most I'm not impressed. (Yes this is a gripe post)

 

1. My strike fighter (Imp Side) handles like pancake batter. They sorta kinda had it right in previous patch or two ago. Now it's just cannon fodder. lol Next time I'll just fly a bowl of soup..lol it'll handle better

 

2. Gunships, I still see them getting to many shots off to quickly, without some sort of greater energy penalty between shots. (personally never did like them, but to each their own) And at times still see teams with over half the makeup of ships as snipers.

 

3. Bombers, ok.... I played last night, I guess it was a premade type platform Bomber, this thing was hard to kill, took little damage, and it went on the offensive. I thought they were going to be a support role not a tank. I do give the pilot +5 for skill but for the love of all things righteous.

 

At this point I loved the idea when GSF came out, but the whole scheme has somehow become an after thought. I think I'll give it a break for a while and see what comes of it.

[Fractalsponge]

1. Strikes were never nerfed for agility in any patch. If anything, they added engine regen to the stock strike build's quick-charge shield. Mobility loss due to barrel roll nerf affected everyone, though scouts were hurt less due to their higher engine boost efficiency.

 

2. Gunships shooting quickly are taking lower-powered shots that do (I believe) disproportionately lower DPE than full power shots. Certainly taking a half power slug is much less painful than a full power slug. Unless their accuracy is very high, multiple rapid shots are going to drain their weapon pool VERY fast, and not really be effective. The gunship swarms that have re-appeared in deathmatch is an old habit that has resurfaced. There are ways to break it, and it certainly is not the most efficient team build. However, it will disproportionately hurt inexperienced players, and that's why you see it - some people want to specifically hunt newbs to make 50.

 

3. There's something here. Certainly bombers are hugely difficult for newbie pilots to bring down, due to lack of innate shield and armor piercing, and lower burst in general. Bombers are not really that badly balanced at the high end, however. They just require some strategies and builds that new pilots don't have.

[Gavin_Kelvar]

1. Strikes were never nerfed for agility in any patch. If anything, they added engine regen to the stock strike build's quick-charge shield. Mobility loss due to barrel roll nerf affected everyone, though scouts were hurt less due to their higher engine boost efficiency.

 

Yeah my Clarion still feels just as mobile as before. I haven't noticed anything odd when flying a Star Guard either. But maybe they screwed up some code for the Imp side strikers?

 

(Did they even make any tweaks to GSF in 2.9? Cause I don't see any GSF balance tweaks in the patch notes)

[DamascusAdontise]

Just wanted to step in rq on the GS thing. Yes low charge shots do less damage, but they can still crit. So technically you can take small pot shots and do lot of damage (assuming you get the crits that is)

 

Im with the others as to strike mobility, it sucks but has been this way for a while now (since the BR nerf)

 

Bombers have taken more than their fair share of nerfs and are in a good place atm, if anything there might be some smallish buffs coming to them at some point in the future. Go with weapons that have armor penetration, burst's / heavies / concussion missiles / slug railgun / pods etc. Try not to attack entrenched bombers, as their mines will mop you. Try to get them while they are out in the open and don't hang around behind them for long periods of time. Do strafing runs and bail when you have too much damage.

 

Red hulls are food to mines don't feed them!

[Altheran]

1. My strike fighter (Imp Side) handles like pancake batter. They sorta kinda had it right in previous patch or two ago. Now it's just cannon fodder. lol Next time I'll just fly a bowl of soup..lol it'll handle better

 

Strikes did not change.

However, you may be noticing the same thing I did on my server :

 

On my server, matches involved very few of the "best ships". Veterans were finishing their new ships or trying new stuff. Most of the best ships were actually piloted by rookies or low to average people (those who need them to have a chance against an ace in an underdog ship).

Playing a Strike, a Spearpoint, things like that was possible as there were no particular threats... At worst, a veteran using a similar ship to yours.

 

However, veterans stopped flying underdog ships, and took again the best performing ones as soon as GSF became "serious business" a.k.a. conquests. They shelved their Novadive, Spearpoint, Starguard and others like that to put back Flashfire, Quarrel, Rempart and alikes...

 

And in an environment in which the majority of ships are the "king ships", played by people above average, Strikes become ridiculously overwhelmed by the performance gap.

As a Strike defender, it hurts to say that, but they've never been at the level of some of those. Especially Flashfire and Quarrel. As a result, launching a Strike in a Flashfire/Quarrel nest, is like throwing a lamb in a lion den.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Altheran

[Urglab]

Why would anyone shelve their strikers? Especially Clarion/Imperium, strike power!

[Gavin_Kelvar]

Why would anyone shelve their strikers? Especially Clarion/Imperium, strike power!

 

Agreed. Honestly I think the Clarion/Imperium is closest to what a strike fighter should be. All they'd need to do to make it perfect:

1) swap out sensors for thrusters (because sensors are not well suited to strikers in general)

2) add HLCs as an option (for those wanting to focus on a "bomber buster" build)

3) add concussion missiles as an option (for those who want to focus on a space superiority build)

 

(I recognize #1 is unlikely at this point but they could still add #2 and #3 which I think would make the Clarion even more amazing). Yes it might make the T1s and T2s obsolete but it would also be a true multirole fighter that could be configured to perform a variety of combat missions.

Edited August 30, 2014 by Gavin_Kelvar

[ALaggyGrunt]

I'd rather see railgun debuffs scale with weapon charge. Whoops, spamming low-charged ion rail won't snare that scout for 12 seconds, you have to hit with a full charge.

[Fractalsponge]

Ion's drain already does that. Debuffs are meant to be applied on hit for a given effect. Either the effect is ok with being applied or it isn't. No other ability that applies an effect in gsf scales in this way.

[Gavin_Kelvar]

Ion's drain already does that. Debuffs are meant to be applied on hit for a given effect. Either the effect is ok with being applied or it isn't. No other ability that applies an effect in gsf scales in this way.

 

55% slow for 12 seconds is still pretty devastating for any dogfighter. That being said it's no where near as bad as the pre-nerf ion love tap that drained you of all your power so you couldn't flee or fight.

 

I think what would make more sense would be a minimum charge to apply debuff (for example 50% charge required, making it slightly higher than the minimum charge to fire). But I'd only do that if it appears that the debuff is powerful enough that love taps are a problem.

Edited August 30, 2014 by Gavin_Kelvar

[Kuciwalker]

55% slow for 12 seconds is still pretty devastating for any dogfighter. That being said it's no where near as bad as the pre-nerf ion love tap that drained you of all your power so you couldn't flee or fight.

 

I think what would make more sense would be a minimum charge to apply debuff (for example 50% charge required, making it slightly higher than the minimum charge to fire). But I'd only do that if it appears that the debuff is powerful enough that love taps are a problem.

 

We already have a 25% minimum charge.

 

We have been nerfed in literally every GSF patch since launch. Leave gunships alone; they're easy to kill if you aren't a ****** pilot.

[Bolo_Yeung]

Still, for every 1,5 second you can fire hit that will effectively cripple other ships for 12 seconds... and ion rail misses much less than slug for inistance.

Same for plasma rail - you just dont want to fire it fully charged. DOT is the same, regardless of the charge.

[Armonddd]

We have been nerfed in literally every GSF patch since launch.

 

Fallacious argument.

 

Leave gunships alone; they're easy to kill if you aren't a ****** pilot.

 

Valid argument, though not necessarily one I'd agree with, especially given the influx of new players with RFLs and pods on their scouts.

[AceFirstCav]

We have been nerfed in literally every GSF patch since launch.

And large portion of matches is still decided just by ability to launch more GS than enemi.

And before each patch GS pilots swears that GS is perfectly balanced. If GS is still only nerfed how is possible that it is still very playable?

[Kuciwalker]

Fallacious argument.

 

It's not an argument. It's an expression of and explication of my frustration with his proposal, followed by an objective reason to opposite said proposal.

 

(Additionally, it is a valid argument in a Bayesian or circumstantial sense.)

Edited August 30, 2014 by Kuciwalker

[Gavin_Kelvar]

We already have a 25% minimum charge.

 

We have been nerfed in literally every GSF patch since launch. Leave gunships alone; they're easy to kill if you aren't a ****** pilot.

 

Well I wasn't actually proposing anything needs to be done, personally I've found ion rails don't trouble my strike much these days but I've only gotten back into GSF in the last week after being gone most of the summer. So I prefer not to judge that things are fine based on just a few days play time.

 

In any event I was observing how the debuff could be scaled to a minimum charge to apply debuff (note that would not alter the 25% minimum charge to fire) since actually scaling the power of a debuff is likely more trouble to code than it's worth. I thought my qualifier of "I'd only do that if it appears that the debuff is powerful enough that love taps are a problem" conveyed that I only thought a nerf was needed if further testing revealed that the debuff was powerful enough on it's own to see a return of ion love taps not that I was saying it must absolutely be done right now. IMO while yes 55% slow hurts a lot right now it seems that it is not in and of itself powerful enough to merit another nerf.

[Verain]

Gunships have been nerfed every patch, and at this point I think any further nerfs without compensatory buffs or redesigns could be out of line. However, being nerfed every time doesn't mean you don't need to be nerfed further all by itself. But I definitely get the frustration.

 

 

As has been pointed out though, this thread is garbage.

 

Here's my thread with the patch changes.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=758554

 

OP's complaints:

 

1- Strike handles worse.

-> Nothing changed. Strike handling identical. Ignore complaint.

 

2- "2. Gunships, I still see them getting to many shots off to (sic) quickly"

-> Nothing changed. Generic gunship whine from generic gunship hater.

 

3- "3. Bombers.."

-> Nothing changed. Bombers don't need further nerfs.

 

 

OP is a strike fighter pilot, and strike fighters have needed buffs since the epoch, so I get that. But OP should edit to ensure that no one thinks anything happened in the patch.

 

 

Patch changes:

 

> Ion missile snare down to 6 seconds from 12.

> EMP blast down to 3000m from 4500m. Tooltip still says 4500m.

> Numerous tooltips now truncate and don't list durations and effects properly.

 

Still bugged:

> Sab probe snare talent breaks whole sab probe function. Solution: do not run sab probe snare, select regen debuff instead.

[Armonddd]

It's not an argument. It's an expression of and explication of my frustration with his proposal, followed by an objective reason to opposite said proposal.

 

(Additionally, it is a valid argument in a Bayesian or circumstantial sense.)

 

Fair enough.

 

Would you mind explaining the parenthetical note? I'm afraid I don't understand what you're referring to.

[Lendul]

Fair enough.

 

Would you mind explaining the parenthetical note? I'm afraid I don't understand what you're referring to.

Click here

[Comradebot]

So I've played a few matches since patch, and as with most I'm not impressed. (Yes this is a gripe post)

 

1. My strike fighter (Imp Side) handles like pancake batter. They sorta kinda had it right in previous patch or two ago. Now it's just cannon fodder. lol Next time I'll just fly a bowl of soup..lol it'll handle better

 

Nothing has changed since the patch with strikes. My only problem with them is the fact I'm just not particularly good with them. Though, in part, they're also just the weakest ship class at the moment. Especially since a scout can do basically anything a strike can do 90% of the time, but better.

 

2. Gunships, I still see them getting to many shots off to quickly, without some sort of greater energy penalty between shots. (personally never did like them, but to each their own) And at times still see teams with over half the makeup of ships as snipers.

 

A strike or scout sneaking up on a gunship is more than enough to neuter them in a fight (especially Evasion scouts). When the enemy goes gunship heavy I tend to switch to my scout and proceed to hunt them down. Dead GS's and those fleeing from a Scout they're struggling to hit have hard times shooting your allies. Learn to spot them, come at them from out of their line of sight (or, if you come where they can see you, come at an angle and erratically), use hard cover, and then smash them when you're in range. With a strike, you should almost always be able to either kill them or make them run if you're firing before they're charging up a shot on you.

 

3. Bombers, ok.... I played last night, I guess it was a premade type platform Bomber, this thing was hard to kill, took little damage, and it went on the offensive. I thought they were going to be a support role not a tank. I do give the pilot +5 for skill but for the love of all things righteous.

 

I LOVE piloting my bomber, and yeah... for newer players? It's honestly not fair. Which is actually why I started using it, after having encountered some bombers in my very first GSF matches and being dumbfounded by my inability to kill them. But I try not to use it against newer players, as I find a Novadive or one of my strikes far more sporting.

 

Even so... yes, they're massive, massive tanks. With the Rampart I like to run with the engine-power converter to keep my shields replenished, deflection armor to make me take even less damage, and take a co-pilot with Hydrospanner to repair my hull. Then interdiction and seismic mines to slow more maneuverable ships and do direct hull damage to those pesky Evasion scouts. Then it's a matter of guarding/attacking sats or diving into a think of enemies in an area that I have hard cover to use.

 

But I also know what kills me. Tips on dealing with bomber pilots like myself:

 

1. Multiple coordinated players. When three solid pilots all go "target that guy right... NOW", it's hard to survive for too long. Bombers can't outrun strikes or scouts and can't effectively drop mines/drones while under fire. Get enough guns on one and there's little the bomber pilot can do but duck and weave and try to last long enough for back-up to arrive.

 

2. EMP pulse will instantly murder most of those mines and drones, giving you a free chance to to wail on the less maneuverable bomber.

 

3. Catch them out in the open. Makes number one much, much easier to pull off.

 

4. Kill their toys first when possible, then keep your gun trained on the bomber. When you try to lay a mine while under fire, the majority of the time the mine will be instantly murdered before the shooter even sees the bomber launch it.

 

5. Unless you're in a bomber, never try to stand your ground and go head to head with the bomber. This is literally the last thing anyone should ever do to a bomber and yet I've seen a lot (of presumably new) players try it. Like, an upgraded battlescout with high evasion and rocket pods can away with this. Maybe a strike with directional shielding alternating ions and quads? Hard to say, because folks who do that are usually experienced enough to know they're still better off getting behind me and THEN unleashing painful electric fire up my vulnerable arse. However...

 

6. Less experienced bomber pilots tend to stick pretty rigidly to their flight path (see: circling lazily below the satellite). These guys will almost never, ever deviate from that path and thus you can rack up good damage on them by staying put and just blasting them as they circle by, typically with another player hot on their tail. Also makes for easy shots for gunships (which are also how you deal with lazy bomber pilots who like to park inside the satellite and try to force you to go head to head with them. Shoot these lazy jerks who aren't out there tanking and firing lasers like more awesome bomber pilots with railguns until they flee... and often prove they aren't that amazing). Gunships are how I learned to be a bit less predictable in my flight path. It also helps prevent certain guys who almost exclusively fly Evasion scouts from lining up a kill barrage from behind. Not that I'm naming any names.

 

 

Xiao.

 

 

So there you go, a bunch of random tips on how to fight/fly bombers from a middling bomber pilot that literally no one asked for. Enjoy.

[Kuciwalker]

Fair enough.

 

Would you mind explaining the parenthetical note? I'm afraid I don't understand what you're referring to.

 

From the parenthetical, I think it is a little bit (not a lot) more likely that after a long series of nerfs a game element will be a little too weak than too strong. Thus the series of nerfs doesn't constitute rigorous, deductive evidence that ion is balanced, but it is circumstantial evidence.