Scammed on the GTN

[AlienEyeTX]

The OP is new to the game and he is most certainly NOT a moron - to call him one is childish. He made a mistake because of how the listing was...we've ALL made mistakes. The listing was done that way specifically to take advantage of the crappy UI and the purchase should be reversed.

 

Gotta disagree. Mistakes happen, but we should learn from them and move on. The seller did a clever thing and was rewarded. Why should the seller be punished for someone else's mistake?

[MillionsKNives]

The seller is an ******e, but he isn't being deceptive or dishonest. Predatory, yes... but all relevant info needed to choose between 333 and 333k is available to the buyer in the same way the difference between 333 and 334 is available.

 

The 333k is listed in a way that it will look like 333 at a glance, based on how the GTN displays the information. That is the deception. It doesn't matter if the relevant information is there.

[Darth_Wicked]

And in the other example someone bought something & didn't pay what they were expecting or anticipating? So again what's the big difference? In one case someone was fooled by what they were buying, in the other they were fooled by what they were paying.

 

No one was fooled here. Again, the OP got what he purchased, what was listed on the GTN.

 

You seem not to understand that.

 

Fact of the matter is we're arguing semantics, you admit the seller was dishonest & deceitful, you also admit they used said deceit to get extra money from the OP. Again that's what a scam is as evidenced by the very definition of the word. However you seem to want to use some vague definition you invented yourself. In either case I think we can agree it's a slimy move by the seller.

 

You're mixing things up.

 

Ultimately, the thing that matters to this discussion is the listing on the GTN and that one provided the OP with all the info he needed, in order to make an educated purchase.

 

There is absolutely NOTHING(!) on the GTN that forbids anyone from placing a unit of Turadium for 333k. This sole act alone does not constitute a "scam" last I checked.

 

And yes the OP is ultimately responsible, but that doesn't excuse the behavior of the seller. Just because you get away with something doesn't make it right.

 

I'm not excusing the buyer. I said from early on that he was both dishonest and deceiving.

 

Alas, the listing was not and that is the only link between both the buyer and the seller.

[Darth_Wicked]

A knife by itself can't murder someone, what's your point? The listing was written in such a way to scam a player. Whether the listing itself technically has all of the information is irrelevant.

 

Hmmmmm... What...?! You can't be serious.

 

Funny that you keep claiming that I only read what suits me when you keep responding with irrelevant info.

 

I'm responding with the only info that ultimately matters: The listing.

[jedip_enguin]

Tried this out. Didnt work. Lost 100k.

 

You just made my day

[AlienEyeTX]

A knife by itself can't murder someone, what's your point? The listing was written in such a way to scam a player. Whether the listing itself technically has all of the information is irrelevant.

 

Funny that you keep claiming that I only read what suits me when you keep responding with irrelevant info.

 

"Written?" Really? There was no scam. A GTN listing very clearly states exactly what is for sale and for how much, both total and per unit. It doesn't get much simpler than that. If people can't be bothered to read the listing, it's on them.

[MaximusRex]

One piece of Turadium... Listed for... 333k(!) credits... An "error"...?!

 

All five pieces - adding up - for 1.5(!!!) million credits...?!

 

Now I've seen it all.

 

Maybe you've never posted anything on the GTN, but once you set a price, it will keep listing other objects that are the same for the same price until you close the GTN window. So it would be very easy to list multiples of the same item for the wrong price.

[Darth_Wicked]

Maybe you've never posted anything on the GTN, but once you set a price, it will keep listing other objects that are the same for the same price until you close the GTN window. So it would be very easy to list multiples of the same item for the wrong price.

 

Before trying to educate others in matters they do not require, educate yourself...

Yeah, I sent a polite note, but the guy has like several stacks of 5 even now on The Harbinger, so I doubt it's to save room, otherwise they'd be stacks of 99 I guess.

 

If anyone wants to sell any unlocks or something for cheap or low level gathering mats, I'm a workhorse!

Edited August 28, 2014 by Darth_Wicked

[Calsetes]

A knife by itself can't murder someone, what's your point? The listing was written in such a way to scam a player. Whether the listing itself technically has all of the information is irrelevant.

 

Funny that you keep claiming that I only read what suits me when you keep responding with irrelevant info.

 

Do a search for Arrangement: Underworld Bar on the GTN. What results pop up? Now, find the lowest price and the highest price. Is the person selling at the highest price trying to scam people?

 

Apply that logic here. It is a Galactic Trade Network. Someone says "I have X units of Y to sell at Z price." How, in any way, shape, or form, is that a scam? How does one thing "being a scam" using that method not also equate to another item at another price also falling into those same lines?

 

If the GTN was a "blind auction" of sorts, I can maybe somewhat kinda possibly see it. Or, if you were allowed to sell bound things - the player in the end couldn't use them. However, in its current iteration, the GTN is essentially as free from scams as it can possibly get. It takes ten seconds of quick head-math to determine if 333 * 5 = 1500 or 1500000. Even assuming it was 333 1/3 credits per unit, there is no way it adds up to 1500000 because you would have had to have bought 4500 units in a single stack, which is impossible with the current system limitations of 99 per stack.

[MillionsKNives]

No one was fooled here. Again, the OP got what he purchased, what was listed on the GTN.

 

You seem not to understand that.

 

Only if you ignore the fact that he was fooled into thinking it was cheaper than it was.

 

You're mixing things up.

 

Ultimately, the thing that matters to this discussion is the listing on the GTN and that one provided the OP with all the info he needed, in order to make an educated purchase.

 

No, ultimately what matters is that the scammer listed it with the intent to fool people into paying extra.

 

There is absolutely NOTHING(!) on the GTN that forbids anyone from placing a unit of Turadium for 333k. This sole act alone does not constitute a "scam" last I checked.

 

No, there's nothing wrong with that in and of itself. What's wrong is if it is done with the intent to scam someone.

 

Hmmmmm... What...?! You can't be serious.

 

Completely serious, because it is indeed irrelevant. Show me in the definition where it states "except if the price is listed right there".

 

I'm responding with the only info that ultimately matters: The listing.

 

No, what ultimately matters is the definition, and it disagrees with you. What you're trying to do is strip away all of the context in order to make it not a scam. You can strip away the context from pretty much anything until it's unrecognizable.

 

"But your honor, just because he had a knife in his back doesn't mean he was murdered. If you just look at the knife, and only the knife -forget about the fact that I'm covered in blood and there is a video recording of me putting it there- it doesn't mean that it was put there with the intent to kill. It might have just magically found its way into his back and I'm completely innocent."

[eartharioch]

They're not comparable last I checked.

 

In the example you point out, people bought something and received nothing at all or at the very least, not the item they were expecting or anticipated.

 

The OP on the other hand got the item he purchased the very same minute(!!!) said purchase was done.

 

The listing was accurate.

 

The price per unit was accurate.

 

The total price was accurate.

 

The OP just misinterpreted or misread the listing and yet again, HE GOT WHAT HE PAYED FOR, WHAT WAS LISTED.

 

^^ Is the above so hard to grasp?

 

If you intentionally list something at price X, and you know that the only people will buy it are people who mistakenly think that it as at a different price, you are a scammer. Is that so hard to grasp?

[scottythebod]

No one was fooled here. Again, the OP got what he purchased, what was listed on the GTN.

 

You seem not to understand that.

So you think the seller knew he was paying 333K and not 333 credits. Maybe you should reread. He was fooled by the way the price was listed. He got what he was expecting but not at the price he thought. Or maybe you have your own definition of "fooled" too

[azudelphi]

So you think the seller knew he was paying 333K and not 333 credits. Maybe you should reread. He was fooled by the way the price was listed. He got what he was expecting but not at the price he thought. Or maybe you have your own definition of "fooled" too

 

OP said he misread. This thread doesn't start if OP had read the GTN correctly.

[MillionsKNives]

Do a search for Arrangement: Underworld Bar on the GTN. What results pop up? Now, find the lowest price and the highest price. Is the person selling at the highest price trying to scam people?

 

Apply that logic here. It is a Galactic Trade Network. Someone says "I have X units of Y to sell at Z price." How, in any way, shape, or form, is that a scam? How does one thing "being a scam" using that method not also equate to another item at another price also falling into those same lines?

 

If the GTN was a "blind auction" of sorts, I can maybe somewhat kinda possibly see it. Or, if you were allowed to sell bound things - the player in the end couldn't use them. However, in its current iteration, the GTN is essentially as free from scams as it can possibly get. It takes ten seconds of quick head-math to determine if 333 * 5 = 1500 or 1500000. Even assuming it was 333 1/3 credits per unit, there is no way it adds up to 1500000 because you would have had to have bought 4500 units in a single stack, which is impossible with the current system limitations of 99 per stack.

 

It's not hard to figure out. If you're listing it hoping to get a lot of credits, not a scam. If you're listing it hoping to fool someone into buying it because the sort is reversed and it looks cheaper than it is, it's a scam.

[Beltane]

The fact it's so important for so many people to search for loopholes to justify why this isn't a scam really showcases how dishonest people are. How sad.

 

Since when did something stop being a scam because someone fell for it?

 

Every single person who has fallen for the scam has agreed that it is 99% their fault for not paying close enough attention. That does NOT make it not a scam.

 

Ridiculous.

[Calsetes]

So you think the seller knew he was paying 333K and not 333 credits. Maybe you should reread. He was fooled by the way the price was listed. He got what he was expecting but not at the price he thought. Or maybe you have your own definition of "fooled" too

 

If I bought a saber for 100,000 credits, and I didn't want to pay 100,000 - only 100 credits - would I have been fooled? And, if I was indeed fooled, who's at fault? The price said 100,000. I saw 100. Is it the seller's fault for not putting it at 100, or my fault for not seeing 100,000?

[MaximusRex]

A knife by itself can't murder someone, what's your point? The listing was written in such a way to scam a player. Whether the listing itself technically has all of the information is irrelevant.

 

Funny that you keep claiming that I only read what suits me when you keep responding with irrelevant info.

 

Have you ever even used the GTN, because for me all the prices are fully written out. So a 333k listing is written as 333,000, while a 333 listing is written as 333. Here is a picture of Turadium listings on my server.

[ikinai]

It's not hard to figure out. If you're listing it hoping to get a lot of credits, not a scam. If you're listing it hoping to fool someone into buying it because the sort is reversed and it looks cheaper than it is, it's a scam.

 

Just because you can't read or do arithmetic doesn't make it a scam. It isn't the GTN's job to teach reading, writing and arithmetic. All it does is list things for sale and at what price and how many units there are. Anyone familiar with this would be able to calculate the numbers quick enough to know what they are getting.

[scottythebod]

Do a search for Arrangement: Underworld Bar on the GTN. What results pop up? Now, find the lowest price and the highest price. Is the person selling at the highest price trying to scam people?

 

Apply that logic here. It is a Galactic Trade Network. Someone says "I have X units of Y to sell at Z price." How, in any way, shape, or form, is that a scam? How does one thing "being a scam" using that method not also equate to another item at another price also falling into those same lines?

 

If the GTN was a "blind auction" of sorts, I can maybe somewhat kinda possibly see it. Or, if you were allowed to sell bound things - the player in the end couldn't use them. However, in its current iteration, the GTN is essentially as free from scams as it can possibly get. It takes ten seconds of quick head-math to determine if 333 * 5 = 1500 or 1500000. Even assuming it was 333 1/3 credits per unit, there is no way it adds up to 1500000 because you would have had to have bought 4500 units in a single stack, which is impossible with the current system limitations of 99 per stack.

You're missing the point, the price isn't the issue. Had the seller listed them at 1 million each that wouldn't be a scam. Maybe price gouging, but he's simply trying to maximize the sale amount that's fine. Anyone that looks clearly knows they're paying 1 million each. What makes it a scam IMO is listing it in a way that makes someone think it costs different than what it actually does.

 

You can list things for whatever price you want, if someone is dumb enough to buy it that's on them. If you're attempting to trick someone into thinking it only costs 333 credits when it's really 333K that is a scam.

[Calsetes]

It's not hard to figure out. If you're listing it hoping to get a lot of credits, not a scam. If you're listing it hoping to fool someone into buying it because the sort is reversed and it looks cheaper than it is, it's a scam.

 

But what is the difference between 20 million and 2 million for an item, and the OP's original point? Literally nothing. There is an item listed - fact. There is a price listed - fact. There is a "price per unit" for everything, even unstackable single-unit items - fact.

 

Failure to read this correctly does not mean "scam," it means "I didn't read it correctly." Period. There is no gray area. Intent does not apply here, as everything on the GTN is playing by these same exact rules. The guy made a mistake - a costly one - and he hopefully has learned in the future to not do it again.

 

I almost made the same mistake - I threw something on the GTN for 4k when I thought it auto-defaulted to 20k like other items I had. I canceled it, lost my deposit, and threw it on there for the right price. Had it sold, would someone have scammed me? Hell no - I would have made a mistake and learned from it.

[DOHboy]

The ONLY Way this works is if people for some reason expect values to be listed down to 1000th of a credit 0.001 so someone listing something as 100,001 and would think they are in fact paying 100.001 credits per unit.

 

the fact that the unit price is only down to 2 places for 100ths of credits makes this argument invalid.

[RahaylaCora]

OP said he misread. This thread doesn't start if OP had read the GTN correctly.

He misread because, probably, he is used to another numeric notation. That is the source of the mistake, and should be addressed. In this international game not everybody is used to read these numbers with decimals. You can buy gear with commendations and you are asked for if you are sure (double check), and even in that kind of items you can revert the trade. Not suggesting to reverting any trade, but a confirmation double check briefing your buying information should avoid most of this kind of mistakes. In the actual GTN you can clic the buying icon by accident and trade is done.

[Calsetes]

You're missing the point, the price isn't the issue. Had the seller listed them at 1 million each that wouldn't be a scam. Maybe price gouging, but he's simply trying to maximize the sale amount that's fine. Anyone that looks clearly knows they're paying 1 million each. What makes it a scam IMO is listing it in a way that makes someone think it costs different than what it actually does.

 

You can list things for whatever price you want, if someone is dumb enough to buy it that's on them. If you're attempting to trick someone into thinking it only costs 333 credits when it's really 333K that is a scam.

 

But it's clearly marked as 333,333. NOT 333. It is as clear as day what you're buying. If the buyer is in such a hurry to buy something that he doesn't look at what he's clicking on, then it's his fault. I'm sorry, I don't see this being anyone else's fault other than the buyer's. He had it staring him in the face and he hit "Okay, I will buy this."

[eartharioch]

Gotta disagree. Mistakes happen, but we should learn from them and move on. The seller did a clever thing and was rewarded. Why should the seller be punished for someone else's mistake?

 

I don't think I've heard a more eloquent statement from a scammer today -- this really sums up the scammer POV for me. Thanks.

[Vandicus]

My apologies to anyone who I didn't respond to earlier, in the time I've been gone the thread has grown enormously.

 

 

There were a few questions brought up regarding rights of sellers and buyers.

 

Indeed, mistagging in stores has laws requiring them to sell at the mistagged price, if it is indeed lower. The laws are typically heavily biased against the seller, because that's where most of the fraud occurs. If this could result in material damage to the seller, this might not be enforced however.

 

 

The only real consistent principle when it comes to regulations of business is transactions is that of mutually beneficial exchange. As a result, legal authorities are allowed a lot of discretion in how to deal with situations where one party has appeared to take advantage of the other.

 

Unconscionability is considered a valid reason to void a contract.

 

 

Abuse of a systematic fast transaction system(say overpricing drinks significantly in a vending machine, to the tune of several hundred dollars a can or the like) would quickly be cracked down on in real life. People are constantly thinking of new ways to try and screw each other over, and laws are made to counteract new methods.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Vandicus