Kaggath Battlegrounds Heats - Fist of the Empire vs the Confederacy

[Aurbere]

Tricking the Black Sun: Again with an information network surpassing that of Imperial Intelligence, as well as a web of informants across various hyperlanes, both major and not, I see it as unlikely that the Confederacy will be fooled by a fake attack, if the fleet is not already being tracked, it will not be difficult to locate, or rather it will, proving it to be a ruse.

 

I find it unlikely that the space around Tatooine is littered with Black Sun sensors. I don't see them able to know everything that goes on.

 

Sabotaging Reinforcements: A good tactic, but consider that no reinforcements will be forthcoming unless the blockade is broken, I raise this point because the Fist might decide to "let" the Confederacy land troops to spring the trap, but this tactic could end up back firing, as they will end up smuggling in a host of illegal tech as well to give them a powerful edge.

 

The Fist will put tracking devices on the transports carrying reinforcements, they'll know if the transports go for pickup of illegal tech, unless that tech is being moved from Hypori as well?

 

Marching on the High Ground: I have to agree with Canino here, pulling the tactican card is all well and good but the fact is that high ground will be littered with defenses, as it practically encapsulates the palace. No amount of amazing tactical ability will get Fist troops there before the enemy, certainly not in these conditions. He'll likely have to employ another strategy, but attempting to rush the fortified high ground, for a tactician of his caliber, would not be one of them.

 

I suggest a close study of the map, to get an idea of how this might play out. Note that there is a lot of high ground surrounding the Palace, which will mean a lot of marching to avoid transports getting shot down when in range.

 

I did study the map. They'll be taking the Slauce Canyon, which is right next to Mos Eisley and far from Jabba's Palace. How exactly is that road going to be booby trapped?

[Beniboybling]

Hailfire droids have a greater range than anything the Black Sun can put on the field. They fire missiles the same way droidekas fire their blasters, in very quick, very deadly volleys. The transport trick is cute, but would ultimately be ineffective as the artillery of the Fist will shred the transports as they hit sensor range. Another thing, it isn't hard to "lead" your target, especially with the advanced droid brains in use, so when the transports stealth, the wall of missiles will likely connect in some fashion.

 

Something that hasn't be discussed is the limitations of current stealth technology. You can visually hide somethign all you want, in the loose sand of the Dune Sea, the repulsors will almost certainly kick up sand and debris. The same is true of large sized, heavy artillery pieces using stealth generators, they will leave traces and marks in the sand as they move. The technology cannot hide this.

 

If the Fist fleet moves to Nar Shaddaa, I wouldn't expect anyone to want to hang out. The Black Sun may have the magical ability to create complete, unflinching loyalty, but most scum would rather run or hide than deal with something as impressive as the Fist fleet. Criminals don't go to war, they're not soldiers, they go to ground first. This isn't Die Hard, criminals don't go toe to toe with the military.

You seemed to have overlooked the main aspect of my "cute" strategy, namely that they transports the Hailfire's dispatch are only decoys, intended to lull the enemy into a false sense of security. The real targets will be elsewhere.

 

Anyway consider the following:

 

 

1. That the transports could simply remain stationery, and let the enemy ranks roll over or past them.
    
    
   
2. That the enemy can also employ burrowing Trident droids in a similar way.
   

 

In fact considering that the Confederacy look to be going on the defense, we should really think in terms of defense strategies, instead of charging the enemy with clever maneuver, they'll probably just let them come to them, lay hidden traps and when the enemy is close, off load troops to attack them at close range, where they are most deadly.

[Aurbere]

Did you see my question, Beni?

 

I'll ask again: Don't the F9s have to decloak to unload troops?

[Wolfninjajedi]

They are extremely powerful, but if dedicated to a single front the Confederacy will respond in kind and dispatch its entire force to attack Tatooine through the tunnels.

 

And as they are only four of them, its feasible that strategies can be put into play to pick them off.

 

You can't really pick off Annihilator droids...least from the info I gather, you gotta send a large force that would be considered unacceptable to take out 1. Though I'm really just speaking out on a full engagement really.

 

I guess it would be possible for to trap them.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Canino]

It has a particle shield and required unacceptable numbers of heavy units to kill. In other words, very well.

 

While true, Zann Consortium used mass driver cannons that were unique- shields will do nothing.

 

"Unlike conventional beam weaponry, these heavy orange rounds were not affected by ray shields, allowing these weapons to bypass an enemy's shielding and destroy it."

 

While this is more about spacecraft, I see no reason why it wouldn't apply to other mass drivers the consortium had control over. If you are going to upgrade, you do them all.

[Aurbere]

While true, Zann Consortium used mass driver cannons that were unique- shields will do nothing.

 

"Unlike conventional beam weaponry, these heavy orange rounds were not affected by ray shields, allowing these weapons to bypass an enemy's shielding and destroy it."

 

While this is more about spacecraft, I see no reason why it wouldn't apply to other mass drivers the consortium had control over. If you are going to upgrade, you do them all.

 

Particle shields defend against physical objects.

[Beniboybling]

I find it unlikely that the space around Tatooine is littered with Black Sun sensors. I don't see them able to know everything that goes on.

 

 

 

The Fist will put tracking devices on the transports carrying reinforcements, they'll know if the transports go for pickup of illegal tech, unless that tech is being moved from Hypori as well?

 

 

 

I did study the map. They'll be taking the Slauce Canyon, which is right next to Mos Eisley and far from Jabba's Palace. How exactly is that road going to be booby trapped?

1. The Black Sun likely didn't employ that level of sophistication when info gathering, I was merely thinking of Black Sun pirates, or affliates of the Black Sun, spotting or not spotting the fleet on major hyperlanes.

 

If nobody sees them, or spots them somewhere they should not be, the ruse will fail.

 

2. I'd assume they'd use different transports, from a logistical point of view this would make sense. Which they could well assume to be additional pirate reinforcements, heck, they might find out and still do it, its a risk their willing to take. And heck maybe it will work out well. But ultimately if this strategy is being employed, sacrifices will have to be made.

 

Simply put, you can't have your cake and eat it.

 

3. Oooh! We got a map reader in da house! However, I don't see how that gets you to Jabba's Palace...

Edited September 5, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Beniboybling]

Did you see my question, Beni?

 

I'll ask again: Don't the F9s have to decloak to unload troops?

Hmmm, maybe not actually, after all it doesn't use any major additional power...

[Beniboybling]

You can't really pick off Annihilator droids...least from the info I gather, you gotta send a large force that would be considered unacceptable to take out 1. Though I'm really just speaking out on a full engagement really.

 

I guess it would be possible for to trap them.

Well that's what I meant by pick off. Anything can be trapped with the proper amount of planning and right equipment.

 

Heck, a simply rockslide would do it. Or maybe have a Trident droid gobble it up.

[Canino]

Particle shields defend against physical objects.

 

I understand that. But they are only part particle shield. The shield on an annihilator is half ray, half particle. This means that the mass drivers can get through half the shield. A few hits and the shield would give way.

[Aurbere]

1. The Black Sun likely didn't employ that level of sophistication when info gathering, I was merely thinking of Black Sun pirates, or affliates of the Black Sun, spotting or not spotting the fleet on major hyperlanes.

 

If nobody sees them, or spots them somewhere they should not be, the ruse will fail.

 

2. I'd assume they'd use different transports, from a logistical point of view this would make sense. Which they could well assume to be additional pirate reinforcements, heck, they might find out and still do it, its a risk their willing to take. And heck maybe it will work out well. But ultimately if this strategy is being employed, sacrifices will have to be made.

 

Simply put, you can't have your cake and eat it.

 

3. Oooh! We got a map reader in da house! However, I don't see how that gets you to Jabba's Palace...

 

1. Well, if the ruse fails, then the fleet will attack Tatooine so they can get their pirate stuffz down to the planet. When that happens, the trap will close. They may not see them on the lanes, but they won't actually know where they are. Heck, it may just act as a deterrent for future attacks.

 

2. I'm not sure I understand.

 

If the transport isn't carrying reinforcements, it gets destroyed or captured. If it is carrying reinforcements, it makes it through. Sure some tech may get through, but so will the hacked droids.

 

3. They go the long way around. Jabba's Palace doesn't appear to be on high ground, it appears to be in a little hovel surrounded by the plateau. Perfectly accessible.

 

Still, I'm wondering how the CICs AT-APs get up on that plateau. I'm not seeing a way up on the map.

[Aurbere]

I understand that. But they are only part particle shield. The shield on an annihilator is half ray, half particle. This means that the mass drivers can get through half the shield. A few hits and the shield would give way.

 

It's a combination shield. I don't think that means half and half.

[Aurbere]

Hmmm, maybe not actually, after all it doesn't use any major additional power...

 

Someone's going to have to check EaW to be sure. I don't have it installed.

[Aurbere]

Well that's what I meant by pick off. Anything can be trapped with the proper amount of planning and right equipment.

 

Heck, a simply rockslide would do it. Or maybe have a Trident droid gobble it up.

 

Where are they getting trident droids? The CCN didn't make them, and I don't think Black Sun had 'em.

[Canino]

Here's a question. Where's Guri getting this stealth belt she supposedly has? I'm looking on the Black Sun and Black Market pages and I can't find any examples of stealth belts being used by them. Sure Urai had one, but that's Urai, not Black Sun or the Black Market.

 

Could someone clue me in, please?

 

Edit: And concerning Guri, has Canino realized that traveling to Cato Neimoidia from Tatooine would take a long time? The battle could be over by the time she gets there.

 

Urai Fen has access to all black market tech the consortium had. Stealth belts would be acquired there. I posted the entire list of things he has access to in one of my spoilered posts.

 

And I understand it will take a little. However, Tatooine is basically on the Corellian Run. That would decrease the time tremendously.

[Beniboybling]

I understand that. But they are only part particle shield. The shield on an annihilator is half ray, half particle. This means that the mass drivers can get through half the shield. A few hits and the shield would give way.

I've learned that they're are to different types of particle shields, one is an ablative plating that is coated on space ships mainly to prevent abrasion, but as a thing coating it can be pummeled through.

 

The other is an intensive energy shield that can absorb more powerful projectiles, these are far more rare. For an example refer to Admiral Trench's heat shields, which he used to totally deflect missile salvos.

 

As for what we are dealing with here, I suspect its the latter. If it were an ablative coating, it would be exactly that, a coating, but its describe as similar to that of the Droideka, Droideka shields are tough enough as it is, I have little doubt that a weapon as deadly and as large as an Annihilator can tank shots from an AT-AP indefinitely.

[Beniboybling]

Where are they getting trident droids? The CCN didn't make them, and I don't think Black Sun had 'em.

The Colicoid Creation Nest did create them, note I mean the Trident-class assault ship, its not actually a droid.

[Aurbere]

Urai Fen has access to all black market tech the consortium had. Stealth belts would be acquired there. I posted the entire list of things he has access to in one of my spoilered posts.

 

And I understand it will take a little. However, Tatooine is basically on the Corellian Run. That would decrease the time tremendously.

 

The rules make it clear that Urai wouldn't have that stuff. He only has the contacts to get that stuff, which requires transportation.

 

True, but it would still take time.

 

I would like to take this moment to remind everyone that Imperial Intelligence operated on Geonosis, so their travel time to Hypori is significantly less than Guri's.

[Canino]

It's a combination shield. I don't think that means half and half.

 

I do. And we don't have any evidence to say it doesn't. However, we know it is a combination shield. Which implies the shield is part particle, part ray. Logically, two parts would mean 50/50.

[Aurbere]

The Colicoid Creation Nest did create them, note I mean the Trident-class assault ship, its not actually a droid.

 

I don't see that. Could you link it please?

[Aurbere]

I do. And we don't have any evidence to say it doesn't. However, we know it is a combination shield. Which implies the shield is part particle, part ray. Logically, two parts would mean 50/50.

 

Refer to Beni's post above on the matter. My thoughts in general.

[Beniboybling]

1. Well, if the ruse fails, then the fleet will attack Tatooine so they can get their pirate stuffz down to the planet. When that happens, the trap will close. They may not see them on the lanes, but they won't actually know where they are. Heck, it may just act as a deterrent for future attacks.

 

2. I'm not sure I understand.

 

If the transport isn't carrying reinforcements, it gets destroyed or captured. If it is carrying reinforcements, it makes it through. Sure some tech may get through, but so will the hacked droids.

 

3. They go the long way around. Jabba's Palace doesn't appear to be on high ground, it appears to be in a little hovel surrounded by the plateau. Perfectly accessible.

 

Still, I'm wondering how the CICs AT-APs get up on that plateau. I'm not seeing a way up on the map.

1. Fair enough, I suppose pirates aren't know for their cool heads.

 

2. Ah I see what you mean, I thought the point you were making was that the Fist would catch on the the illegal tech and nix the plan entirely. This is an interesting strategy and could well work.

 

However it would still mean taking the fleet from Tatooine through some reasonable means, else the Black Sun won't risk it, meaning that the Confederacy might attempt a full space invasion, however this could work with the Kilran trap plan.

 

3. But if they go the long way round, they lose the advantage of the high ground. Though this is there only option.

 

Transports my friend, that's right the Confederacy does have transports too. Reap the benefits Canino! Wait what's that, you want me to take them away? OK! Have fun getting your troops anywhere then!

Edited September 5, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Canino]

The rules make it clear that Urai wouldn't have that stuff. He only has the contacts to get that stuff, which requires transportation.

 

True, but it would still take time.

 

I would like to take this moment to remind everyone that Imperial Intelligence operated on Geonosis, so their travel time to Hypori is significantly less than Guri's.

 

Note that Black Sun would be operating on Cato Neimodia at peak efficiency, as it is smack dab in the middle of their territory.

 

As for the tractor beams, you are wrong Beni.

There were several novel ways to escape from a tractor beam. Very small craft with powerful engines could out-maneuver tractor beams if the ship's pilot was more cunning than the tractor beam operator or targeting computer.

 

A shroud was a counter-measure device fitted to some space vessels. It functioned to confuse and displace the tracking lock of a tractor beam, enabling a ship to escape the hold of the beam.

 

Tractor beams could also be disrupted by a Stage Three torpedo. These instances, however, were rare in relation to the number of times tractor beams reliably captured small vessels.

 

Another countermeasure was the Covert Shroud gambit. While difficult to perform and requiring extensive preparation, the Covert Shroud was highly effective. It involved using the shell of a larger ship to contain a smaller one, along with a relatively weak self-destruct mechanism. Once the larger ship was caught it a tractor beam, the pilot (and any other crew) would transfer to the smaller ship and activate the self-destruct. This would release the smaller ship and cause the tractor beam to catch the debris of the larger ship. The resulting delay would allow the smaller ship to escape to hyperspace before the tractor beam could be re-targeted.

 

All ways to escape tractor beams. These would be utilized to allow supplies to flow to the planet.

[Beniboybling]

I do. And we don't have any evidence to say it doesn't. However, we know it is a combination shield. Which implies the shield is part particle, part ray. Logically, two parts would mean 50/50.

While power would have to be divided between both shields, this doesn't imply that they would be weak enough to be penetrated by an AT-AP. Observable evidence shows that a shield of that size can tank such a blow.

[Beniboybling]

Note that Black Sun would be operating on Cato Neimodia at peak efficiency, as it is smack dab in the middle of their territory.

 

As for the tractor beams, you are wrong Beni.

There were several novel ways to escape from a tractor beam. Very small craft with powerful engines could out-maneuver tractor beams if the ship's pilot was more cunning than the tractor beam operator or targeting computer.

 

A shroud was a counter-measure device fitted to some space vessels. It functioned to confuse and displace the tracking lock of a tractor beam, enabling a ship to escape the hold of the beam.

 

Tractor beams could also be disrupted by a Stage Three torpedo. These instances, however, were rare in relation to the number of times tractor beams reliably captured small vessels.

 

Another countermeasure was the Covert Shroud gambit. While difficult to perform and requiring extensive preparation, the Covert Shroud was highly effective. It involved using the shell of a larger ship to contain a smaller one, along with a relatively weak self-destruct mechanism. Once the larger ship was caught it a tractor beam, the pilot (and any other crew) would transfer to the smaller ship and activate the self-destruct. This would release the smaller ship and cause the tractor beam to catch the debris of the larger ship. The resulting delay would allow the smaller ship to escape to hyperspace before the tractor beam could be re-targeted.

 

All ways to escape tractor beams. These would be utilized to allow supplies to flow to the planet.

I bow to your superior knowledge.

 

But you still have to contend with an array of point-defense cannons. You'll need the back up of a fleet.