"You can make a million credits in under a hour doing Dailies!" MYTH BUSTED

[TheBBP]

Not me, I just don't think 50 million was that big of a deal to come up with. If my personal wealth in game, as someone who doesn't even log in everyday, is over 30 million, I just don't think 50 is that difficult to come up with, but it's getting lowered so hooray for that I guess.

 

It's not a bunch of people who argued against the lowering of prices, even many of them are happy inside that they might not have to spend so much. But there is a couple or few folks in here who seem to be bitter about a reduced price and that it makes Flagships more accessible. Which is silly to be honest.

Edited August 4, 2014 by TheBBP

[MillionsKNives]

What matters is that enough people have spoken and changes are being made. Not every wheel that squeaks around here gets greased. This was a big deal. It affected a lot of people.

 

Do you have a source for this? The "usual sources" mentioned nothing about the guild ship being lowered.

[TUXs]

It's not a bunch of people who argued against the lowering of prices, even many of them are happy inside that they might not have to spend so much. But there is a couple or few folks in here who seem to be bitter about a reduced price and that it makes Flagships more accessible. Which is silly to be honest.

 

Exactly!!! The people who supported the price, were largely the usual group who defends anything Bioware does.

 

SWTOR is a casual MMO.

[hadoken]

Do you have a source for this? The "usual sources" mentioned nothing about the guild ship being lowered.

 

Curious about this myself. Certainly wouldn't be surprised were it true.

[TheBBP]

Do you have a source for this? The "usual sources" mentioned nothing about the guild ship being lowered.

 

If I did have a source I couldn't post it here. What I have is speculation based on the rumors of sweeping price reductions. Nothing in me believes that Flagship prices will hold with the rumors of big changes in the proposed prices everywhere else in the expansion.

Edited August 4, 2014 by TheBBP

[Darth_Wicked]

If I did have a source I couldn't post it here. What I have is speculation based on the rumors of sweeping price reductions. Nothing in me believes that Flagship prices will hold with the rumors of big changes in the proposed prices everywhere else in the expansion.

 

Those supposed price reductions don't include Guild Flagships apparently. Plus...

 

The prices for Guild Strongholds have been reduced significantly already, most likely to accommodate smaller guilds.

 

[MillionsKNives]

If I did have a source I couldn't post it here. What I have is speculation based on the rumors of sweeping price reductions. Nothing in me believes that Flagship prices will hold with the rumors of big changes in the proposed prices everywhere else in the expansion.

 

One would think that if they were doing a round of price adjustments based on feedback they wouldn't leave guild ships out if it wasn't intended to stay as it is. I agree with all of the adjustments and felt that they were needed. However I still think that the guild ship is the proper price as it is now.

 

Legacy storage did not provide enough value to warrant 50m, 5m fits it much better.

The guild strongholds were unnecessarily pricey, especially considering that they were supposed to be a poor man's guild ship.

The guild ship is in the right spot between being affordable for groups of various sizes while still being something that feels like an accomplishment.

[TheBBP]

I appreciate that gents. I still don't buy that they will release the Conquest stuff or guild flagships with a 50 million credit gate. That is absurd. If a change does not occur, I will have a big decision to make.

[Tsillah]

I appreciate that gents. I still don't buy that they will release the Conquest stuff or guild flagships with a 50 million credit gate. That is absurd. If a change does not occur, I will have a big decision to make.

 

Well, I don't like how they approach testing people's limits like this but having said that, it is of course true that we won't know the actual pricing till it goes live on the server. As others pointed out the PTS prices are not the final prices.

 

BW will have to figure out themselves how many people they want to tick off in the end, because someone will be ticked off no matter what. That is an unfortunate part of their job.

 

After surprising people with how the two previous cartel pack series were done (only during the event and no reputation and a really rare walker mount), I would've hoped they would communicate a bit more clearly about in game pricing for a patch that will bring in a lot of credit spending possibilities (to put it mildly ).

 

Let's not forget that the vast majority of players don't visit these forums. I can imagine that BW do concern themselves with the question of how that majority will react once they see it live. Those players have little or no idea what we've been shouting about here. My guess is though that BW might've concluded that the original prices on the PTS are going to tick off too many people, but we don't know what they're thinking or doing on this of course.

[LordArtemis]

Well I think he was pointing out that at one time 600k was considered "super-expensive" by alot of people.

But the economy chages and people accumulate money over time.

 

Ah, well if that is the case I misunderstood and apologize.

 

I seriously doubt the 600k guild bank cost contributed to any sort of fall. But the themes across those threads look a lot like what we're seeing now, doesn't it?

 

I wonder if in 6 or 12 months we're all going to think 50 mil is as huge an impact as 600k is now... that is to say, negligible.

 

The simple truth is that they could have priced it at 25 to 30 mil and there would still be exactly the same wailing and gnashing of teeth, then begging for it to be 12 or 15. Even by the people suggesting that 25 to 30 mil would be just fine right now. No matter the price, unless it was trivial or free, the same people would lodge the same complaints.

 

It's a valid point I think. Though I do not think a price reduction would be a bad thing, to my knowledge Makeb has been drastically reduced in difficulty overall (buff plus some pruning of mob density) so at least in that aspect it will be easier to do the dailies there.

 

And there is KDY, which one can argue is also an easy way to earn credits (I think that goes, generally speaking, for all tacticals).

 

Then I think one can consider the added demand for mats for decorations. Although I take issue with the insult "wailing and gnashing of teeth", that type of insult often connected to any critical feedback.

 

Those type of comments, in my experience, are usually coined by those on the losing side of the argument. If you have to insult those that disagree with you, you likely have a weak argument to begin with and lack self respect.

Edited August 4, 2014 by LordArtemis

[Tsillah]

to my knowledge Makeb has been drastically reduced in difficulty overall (buff plus some pruning of mob density) so at least in that aspect it will be easier to do the dailies there.

 

From what I saw on the patch notes there people will be bolstered around 156 gear, mob density will be reduced and you can get some sort of buff or aid that gives you constant health regen. With the 250% exp boost anybody should be able to fly through there.

 

And there is KDY, which one can argue is also an easy way to earn credits (I think that goes, generally speaking, for all tacticals).

 

Yeh too bad that this is the trend though. Tactical flashpoints quickly get boring, just like dailies. I used KDY to help level a couple of characters but it's already gotten me to the point that I'd rather not do that FP again for a long time if ever.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Exactly!!! The people who supported the price, were largely the usual group who defends anything Bioware does.

 

SWTOR is a casual MMO.

 

I supported the price. But I'm not upset that it got reduced cause I didn't care either way.

[DarthTHC]

It's a valid point I think. Though I do not think a price reduction would be a bad thing, to my knowledge Makeb has been drastically reduced in difficulty overall (buff plus some pruning of mob density) so at least in that aspect it will be easier to do the dailies there.

 

And there is KDY, which one can argue is also an easy way to earn credits (I think that goes, generally speaking, for all tacticals).

 

Then I think one can consider the added demand for mats for decorations. Although I take issue with the insult "wailing and gnashing of teeth", that type of insult often connected to any critical feedback.

 

Those type of comments, in my experience, are usually coined by those on the losing side of the argument. If you have to insult those that disagree with you, you likely have a weak argument to begin with and lack self respect.

 

I assure you, I have never and don't think I would ever use "wailing and gnashing of teeth" to describe your feedback. Other posters here, whose feedback lacks descriptiveness, thought, and even words beyond, "I don't like it," and who also fail to respond rationally when questioned, yeah. Them.

 

You know who they are, too. You're just too polite to call them out on it. Me, I don't carry the burden of politeness... obviously.

 

I don't think of KDY as a way to earn credits, but spend them. I suppose once you're to the point that you can sell the reputation tokens it might be break-even, if you can avoid dying more than once.

 

There is new content coming. There are new levels coming. Last time that happened, "a lot of money" shifted from around 10 million to hundreds of millions. If the same track holds even remotely true this time around, by this time next year, 50 mil entry fee for a guild flagship will be a week of half-hearted effort for any guild, even the small RP ones. Sort of like the 600k entry fee for a guild bank is now.

Edited August 4, 2014 by DarthTHC

[Starglitter]

Mmm...

 

Running dailies for credits...

 

For one, I can not achieve such nice times with any frequency because of a number of factors; one that comes to mine is: "How many other players are doing the dailies while you are" The second consideration is what class and build you are playing, for instance with Juggrnaut, tank speeced, it takes awhile to grind, albeit it is quite safe; while my Madness Sorceress obliterates stuff quickly, on the other hand my OPS healer with stealth can really cut through the pointless kill mobs and be rather quick through stealthing.

 

But I am curious, if somenone could post the times and credits earned at each area; for instance I can do Illum in under 20 minutes and earn 60K for the 5 missions; am I missing any?

 

So if someone could break it down and give a sens eof timing, it would be great and I could use the mentoring.

 

This week-end I did Illum, Section X, Blackhole, Oricon and Staged Makeb and received about 700K credits and took me roughly 3 hours.

 

Sue

[BuriDogshin]

I supported the price. But I'm not upset that it got reduced cause I didn't care either way.

I support any price BioWare wants to charge within or for the game, because:

• It's just a game so I do not need to buy "it," whatever "it" is,
  
• It's BioWare's game, and
  
• I can leave at any time.
  

 

That said, I would still prefer that they de-nerf Orbital Strike a little, it used to be so cool ... now it's lame.

(frankly, Freight Fly-By was less cool, but if you have to de-nerf one to de-nerf the other, fine. )

[BuriDogshin]

Mmm...

[re: dailies for cash] on the other hand my OPS healer with stealth can really cut through the pointless kill mobs and be rather quick through stealthing.

Sue

The question I have not seen answered yet is whether those "pointless kill mobs" are really pointless or not. You do get some money for killing mobs, and it is possible (but not known to me) that "trash mobs" are worth the 5-10 seconds it takes to kill them when my wife and I are doing dailies on our Smash-spec jugs or maras (typically: saber throw, leap+enrage, smash for 9K+, force sweep or ravage) .

[TUXs]

I supported the price. But I'm not upset that it got reduced cause I didn't care either way.

I gotta ask Reno...what about the price did you "support"? At 50 mil, did that help or hurt the game? See, I think it hurts the game. It prevents casual players, new players and smaller guilds from participating and heavily favors the hardcore players and larger guilds. Nothing good comes from that imo.

 

In order to support something, I need to see the positive impact it has...what was there about a 50mil price that you supported exactly?

[Reno_Tarshil]

I gotta ask Reno...what about the price did you "support"? At 50 mil, did that help or hurt the game? See, I think it hurts the game. It prevents casual players, new players and smaller guilds from participating and heavily favors the hardcore players and larger guilds. Nothing good comes from that imo.

 

In order to support something, I need to see the positive impact it has...what was there about a 50mil price that you supported exactly?

 

It seemed like a fair price for a guild effort and as demonstrated by several other forum users here 50 Mil for the Guild Ship was already well obtainable. In fact my guild is already to go for it.

 

50 Mil for the Legacy Bank was something I was meh towards and was only going to get the first tab, but if rumors are true I am unmeh about it now.

 

I think 50 Mil for a Guild Ship should be priced as such and be considered a guild effort to get money together for.

 

That's why I supported it.

[Infernixx]

What I support is the right for the Dev to set the price at whatever they think is fair, based on internal metrics.

 

So, it could be 5mil, it could be 50mil, it could be 500mil, I don't care as long as it's based on something rational and logical. I trust that whatever the price is when it goes live, will be something that we can all achieve with some effort expended.

[LordArtemis]

I was strongly against Legacy Storage having the prices it had before the likely reduction (still speculative at this point). I think the prices for the Strongholds themselves were not that bad, and the Guild ship price was OK. I would and do support price reductions on both. Here is what I would like to see prices at for the Guild ship.

 

1) 50 mil credits

2) 40 mil credits and completion of all hard modes

3) 20 mil credits, completion of all hard modes and some mix of PVP and GS completions/achievements

 

That, I think would be a fair scale and would give smaller guilds a better path to ship ownership, encourage guilds to work together toward the goal, and also perhaps promote parts of the game that are underutilized at the moment.

[Grayseven]

Not me, I just don't think 50 million was that big of a deal to come up with. If my personal wealth in game, as someone who doesn't even log in everyday, is over 30 million, I just don't think 50 is that difficult to come up with, but it's getting lowered so hooray for that I guess.

 

It has never been about the "difficulty" of getting 50 million credits.

 

Nothing in an MMO is difficult. The only constant is time...i.e. "How long does it take". Every single player can eventually come up with 50 million credits given enough time.

 

What it is about is the fun, or lack thereof, in an endeavor. Is it fun to devote enormous amounts of time in the gathering of credits for what could potentially turn out to be something else not worth the effort involved? For some people, amassing huge amounts of credits is fun...but for others it is not. For some, credits should be hoarded as a finite resource and for others they are nothing more than something to be spent.

 

50 million credits requires an effort that, for many people, isn't fun. No, it isn't hard to get...just boring. I'm sure EA/BW could look at their metrics and see how many new credits were created in game coinciding with the release of the price info and I'm willing to be it is a significant spike. Since new credits are being created solely for the purpose of this purchase, it isn't even a good credit sink since it isn't taking current credits out of circulation but is instead causing the creation of even more credits just for this purchase.

 

So what we have is a game design decision that is changing both the games economy as well as the general activities of the players themselves that may or may not have been done as a credit sink that is having the exact opposite effect by causing people to do activities that increase the number of new credits in circulation that seems hell bent on encouraging activities that many people consider "not fun".

 

That is the issue. The only rule any MMO should ever truly follow is "It must be fun". Because fun is why we are here, playing this game.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Grayseven

[DarthTHC]

It has never been about the "difficulty" of getting 50 million credits.

 

Nothing in an MMO is difficult. The only constant is time...i.e. "How long does it take". Every single player can eventually come up with 50 million credits given enough time.

 

What it is about is the fun, or lack thereof, in an endeavor. Is it fun to devote enormous amounts of time in the gathering of credits

 

Why do that? Why not do what you normally do in the game and let the credits take care of themselves (though stopping spending is a big part of that)?

 

Playing the game generates a positive credit flow (if you limit spending to need vs. want). I have many times leveled a new character from origin world through the end of Corellia / Chapter 3 and come out of it with 2-3 million credits each. Just for playing the game.

 

Makeb / getting to 55 on top of that only would add more credits.

 

That's not the only way, of course. Others have posted ideas that range from dailies to companion missions while role-playing. The options are bound only by the breadth of the game's capabilities.

 

Like you said, the only variable is time. But unlike you said, nobody needs to do anything they dislike... unless they dislike the entirety of the game, in which case, why would they even be here to care about guild flagships?

 

... for what could potentially turn out to be something else not worth the effort involved? For some people, amassing huge amounts of credits is fun...but for others it is not. For some, credits should be hoarded as a finite resource and for others they are nothing more than something to be spent.

 

50 million credits requires an effort that, for many people, isn't fun. No, it isn't hard to get...just boring.

 

What parts of the game do you play that you find not boring - enjoyable? What is the net credit result of a week of playing that, assuming you only spend on consumables you use, travel, and gear repairs?

 

It's > 0, right?

 

... I'm sure EA/BW could look at their metrics and see how many new credits were created in game coinciding with the release of the price info and I'm willing to be it is a significant spike. Since new credits are being created solely for the purpose of this purchase, it isn't even a good credit sink since it isn't taking current credits out of circulation but is instead causing the creation of even more credits just for this purchase.

 

They never actually said they wanted it to be a credit drain... or if they have, I haven't seen it.

 

They have said they analyzed game data and set the price at a point they thought all guilds could do it. Based on the number of small guilds who've said, "We got this," perhaps BioWare got it more right than some would like to give them credit for?

 

So what we have is a game design decision that is changing both the games economy

 

If the credits are being created only to be destroyed, as you posit, then the net change to the game's economy will be nil.

 

... as well as the general activities of the players themselves that may or may not have been done as a credit sink that is having the exact opposite effect by causing people to do activities that increase the number of new credits in circulation that seems hell bent on encouraging activities that many people consider "not fun".

 

Again, WRT the "not fun", what activities do people regularly undertake in the game that result in a net negative credit flow, when they only spend on the necessities of undertaking that activity?

 

Nobody is being forced to play any specific aspect of the game to generate credits for a guild flagship. Some may be choosing to play certain aspects of the game that generate credits more swiftly than others, but that is their choice, probably because they want the flagship sooner rather than later. It's not a requirement of the game.

 

That is the issue. The only rule any MMO should ever truly follow is "It must be fun". Because fun is why we are here, playing this game.

 

BioWare actually followed that rule.

 

By making every activity in the game generate a positive credit flow and making the ship require credits to acquire, they literally gave every single guild the ability to decide how they want to go about earning the flagship.

 

Had they selected other options, say a lengthy PvE quest or a series of quests that required PvE, PvP, and crafting as examples others gave, THEN they would be forcing at least some players into play styles they dislike in order to acquire the flagship.

Edited August 4, 2014 by DarthTHC

[ikinai]

It has never been about the "difficulty" of getting 50 million credits.

 

Nothing in an MMO is difficult. The only constant is time...i.e. "How long does it take". Every single player can eventually come up with 50 million credits given enough time.

 

What it is about is the fun, or lack thereof, in an endeavor. Is it fun to devote enormous amounts of time in the gathering of credits for what could potentially turn out to be something else not worth the effort involved? For some people, amassing huge amounts of credits is fun...but for others it is not. For some, credits should be hoarded as a finite resource and for others they are nothing more than something to be spent.

 

50 million credits requires an effort that, for many people, isn't fun. No, it isn't hard to get...just boring. I'm sure EA/BW could look at their metrics and see how many new credits were created in game coinciding with the release of the price info and I'm willing to be it is a significant spike. Since new credits are being created solely for the purpose of this purchase, it isn't even a good credit sink since it isn't taking current credits out of circulation but is instead causing the creation of even more credits just for this purchase.

 

So what we have is a game design decision that is changing both the games economy as well as the general activities of the players themselves that may or may not have been done as a credit sink that is having the exact opposite effect by causing people to do activities that increase the number of new credits in circulation that seems hell bent on encouraging activities that many people consider "not fun".

 

That is the issue. The only rule any MMO should ever truly follow is "It must be fun". Because fun is why we are here, playing this game.

 

I've had lots of fun and have 30 million credits, why would you assume they are mutually exclusive?

[Reno_Tarshil]

It has never been about the "difficulty" of getting 50 million credits.

 

Nothing in an MMO is difficult. The only constant is time...i.e. "How long does it take". Every single player can eventually come up with 50 million credits given enough time.

 

What it is about is the fun, or lack thereof, in an endeavor. Is it fun to devote enormous amounts of time in the gathering of credits for what could potentially turn out to be something else not worth the effort involved? For some people, amassing huge amounts of credits is fun...but for others it is not. For some, credits should be hoarded as a finite resource and for others they are nothing more than something to be spent.

 

50 million credits requires an effort that, for many people, isn't fun. No, it isn't hard to get...just boring. I'm sure EA/BW could look at their metrics and see how many new credits were created in game coinciding with the release of the price info and I'm willing to be it is a significant spike. Since new credits are being created solely for the purpose of this purchase, it isn't even a good credit sink since it isn't taking current credits out of circulation but is instead causing the creation of even more credits just for this purchase.

 

So what we have is a game design decision that is changing both the games economy as well as the general activities of the players themselves that may or may not have been done as a credit sink that is having the exact opposite effect by causing people to do activities that increase the number of new credits in circulation that seems hell bent on encouraging activities that many people consider "not fun".

 

That is the issue. The only rule any MMO should ever truly follow is "It must be fun". Because fun is why we are here, playing this game.

 

Except, Making money in game is playing the game. Shocking I know.

[Tsillah]

I was strongly against Legacy Storage having the prices it had before the likely reduction (still speculative at this point). I think the prices for the Strongholds themselves were not that bad, and the Guild ship price was OK. I would and do support price reductions on both. Here is what I would like to see prices at for the Guild ship.

 

1) 50 mil credits

2) 40 mil credits and completion of all hard modes

3) 20 mil credits, completion of all hard modes and some mix of PVP and GS completions/achievements

 

That, I think would be a fair scale and would give smaller guilds a better path to ship ownership, encourage guilds to work together toward the goal, and also perhaps promote parts of the game that are underutilized at the moment.

 

I dunno if completing HMs is a good idea, considering that most players probably don't actually do HM Ops.