Good Intention should equal Rewards

[Anaesha]

I don't think that is a fair statement to make. I haven't seen anyone arguing that the Guildships or Strongholds are preferable to new content. What I have seen is a lot of people who want new content, some of which are excited about some new features coming before new content, while others are upset that the content isn't coming first.

 

Just because some players have millions of credits to participate in a credit sink doesn't mean they don't want new content as well. It just means they like the features the credit sinks are providing.

 

If someone truly wants more REAL content then they don't endorse a feature that is nothing but a credit sink when that feature had endless content possibilities. You let it be known that it isn't want you want and make suggestions on how to improve it. if in the end nothing is changed you at least know that you tried.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Anaesha

[Vandicus]

It truly amazes me!! This has got to be the ONLY game in the entire world where people would RATHER just throw fake money at an in game feature rather then have story driven content that truly gives you and your guild something to work for a TRUE SENSE OF ACCOMPLISHMENT.

 

Yeah We're REALLY going to feel a sense of Accomplishment and comradery because we threw 150 million worth of fake money at the GFS compared to working on missions that are story based and specifically designed around guilds working together as one to gain the components to build and upgrade the ship.

 

I truly Give up I feel like I'm beating my head against a 6' thick titanium wall!! You all want a crappy *** credit sink be my guest.

 

Its not as simple as saying "Oh, let's replace this content gate with 10 hours of story content instead". That stuff has to be made. And while yes, I'd love to see more story content in the game, using it as a content gate, especially to a group activity, seems unwise. While a significant amount of story content makes it into the group settings within the game, most of it should still remain accessible to soloers.

[Orizuru]

If someone truly wants more REAL content then they don't endorse a feature that is nothing but a credit sink when that feature had endless content possibilities. You let it be known that it isn't want you want and make suggestions on how to improve it. if in the end nothing is changed you at least know that you tried.

 

When you make assumptions about how people should or should not react to something, you are setting yourself up for nothing but disappointment.

 

What you describe is a straw man argument. A player can want new content, and be in support of new features that aren't the content they are looking for at the same time. The two are completely independent of each other.

 

I fully support your desire for new content. I would love new content as well. However, that doesn't mean I can't be excited about guildships or strongholds. I'm disappointed that these features aren't including any new content, but I do not feel like I shouldn't allow myself to enjoy these new features simply because I didn't get the content I wanted.

[Aries_cz]

There are people with that and more but they got most of it through selling CM packs on the GTN I'd bet which is not something everyone can do.

 

You o realize that selling the pack means only transferring credits between players, right? Meaning the money was already there, it just changed hands (and then changed hands again when people resold what they got from packs)

[Anaesha]

Its not as simple as saying "Oh, let's replace this content gate with 10 hours of story content instead". That stuff has to be made. And while yes, I'd love to see more story content in the game, using it as a content gate, especially to a group activity, seems unwise. While a significant amount of story content makes it into the group settings within the game, most of it should still remain accessible to soloers.

 

My main issue is it doesn't really seem like BW even tried thinking of ways to make getting the GFS more enjoyable for guilds like the Scenario My guild thought up just while discussing them. It feels more like this Credit sink was their first and only idea.

 

Before anyone even tries it YES I am full aware that this is an assumption and I have no way of proving other wise.

[Aries_cz]

My main issue is it doesn't really seem like BW even tried thinking of ways to make getting the GFS more enjoyable for guilds like the Scenario My guild thought up just while discussing them. It feels more like this Credit sink was their first and only idea.

 

Before anyone even tries it YES I am full aware that this is an assumption and I have no way of proving other wise.

 

Not sure what the Scenario your guild came up with is (sorry if you posted it here somewhere, I skimmed most of the latter pages, because they all looked very muich te same). I am going to assume it is something like "do X, get Y amount of item Z", right? So, you would rather have a situation that forces people to do a certain type of content, instead of simply using something everything you do in game provides, like credits?

We had that situation with HK-51 quest, where people complain they have to search for stuff or run flashpoints, and with Seeker/Macrobinocular, where people complained they had to group up, etc...

Edited July 29, 2014 by Aries_cz

[MSchuyler]

It truly amazes me!! This has got to be the ONLY game in the entire world where people would RATHER just throw fake money at an in game feature rather then have story driven content that truly gives you and your guild something to work for a TRUE SENSE OF ACCOMPLISHMENT.

 

A "true sense of accomplishment." Yeah. I hear you. Like when your guild decides to do XYZ Adventure for the twentieth time, or when you "group for content" and all you see is "Press the spacebar! Press the Spacebar! Press the g-- d----- spacebar!" because "people want content."

 

Come to think of it, I haven't met very many people in this game who "want content." They may SAY they do, but they appear to want to rush through stuff as fast as they can trying to set records for the shortest time though something they could play blindfolded in the first place. The operative word on "cut scenes" is on "cut," as in let's just skip them. They can;t be bothered.

 

I'd really like to meet some folks who wanted and appreciated "content" some time. That would be awesome.

[Anaesha]

Not sure what the Scenario your guild came up with is (sorry if you posted it here somewhere, I skimmed most of the latter pages, because they all looked very muich te same). I am going to assume it is something like "do X, get Y amount of item Z", right? So, you would rather have a situation that forces people to do a certain type of content, instead of simply using something everything you do in game provides, like credits?

We had that situation with HK-51 quest, where people complain they have to search for stuff or run flashpoints, and with Seeker/Macrobinocular, where people complained they had to group up, etc...

 

The difference between those and this is that it's centered on Guilds working together at all times aka no PUGS allowed only guild members may participate on what ever missions they were and it was in a way where even a lvl 15 members could could participate and fell like they were contributing and the items used to make the ship were the rewards for completing said mission.

 

I know some people in this game seem to have an allergy to working with other people and prefer to do things solo but in an instance like this working together as a guild to earn the ship itself should be encouraged not just earning the credits the ship.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Anaesha

[TUXs]

Not sure what the Scenario your guild came up with is (sorry if you posted it here somewhere, I skimmed most of the latter pages, because they all looked very muich te same). I am going to assume it is something like "do X, get Y amount of item Z", right? So, you would rather have a situation that forces people to do a certain type of content, instead of simply using something everything you do in game provides, like credits?

We had that situation with HK-51 quest, where people complain they have to search for stuff or run flashpoints, and with Seeker/Macrobinocular, where people complained they had to group up, etc...

HK was an individual reward - guild ships are a group reward.

[Anaesha]

A "true sense of accomplishment." Yeah. I hear you. Like when your guild decides to do XYZ Adventure for the twentieth time, or when you "group for content" and all you see is "Press the spacebar! Press the Spacebar! Press the g-- d----- spacebar!" because "people want content."

 

Come to think of it, I haven't met very many people in this game who "want content." They may SAY they do, but they appear to want to rush through stuff as fast as they can trying to set records for the shortest time though something they could play blindfolded in the first place. The operative word on "cut scenes" is on "cut," as in let's just skip them. They can;t be bothered.

 

I'd really like to meet some folks who wanted and appreciated "content" some time. That would be awesome.

 

That is an unfair assessment as most of the people who do that have done the same content on multiple characters they have seen it many times so they try to power through it.

 

Do I agree with this practice especially if there are members who might be seeing it for the first time? No

Edited July 29, 2014 by Anaesha

[Infernixx]

Again those are only things the 50 to 55s can do it excludes the members who don't have a lot of creds to spare or who do not yet have the right gear to run those.

 

It also excludes our Lower lvl members who have not reached 50 or 55 yet on a character.

 

Maybe to you letting your low lvl members feel excluded from earning the guild ship is ok but to others it isn't.

 

Before I reply, I need to know if you 'truly' think that's what I said, or you were just trying to take a jab at me.

 

Neither answer is good, but one is worse than the other.

[Aries_cz]

A "true sense of accomplishment." Yeah. I hear you. Like when your guild decides to do XYZ Adventure for the twentieth time, or when you "group for content" and all you see is "Press the spacebar! Press the Spacebar! Press the g-- d----- spacebar!" because "people want content."

 

Come to think of it, I haven't met very many people in this game who "want content." They may SAY they do, but they appear to want to rush through stuff as fast as they can trying to set records for the shortest time though something they could play blindfolded in the first place. The operative word on "cut scenes" is on "cut," as in let's just skip them. They can;t be bothered.

 

I'd really like to meet some folks who wanted and appreciated "content" some time. That would be awesome.

 

A lot of people do appreciate the content, but when you are doing something for 10th time, you are more prone to not wanting to see what you saw again (for example, I started to watch Stargate SG-1 again, because almost every TV show is on break over holidays. And I do willingly skip over certain episodes, because I remember them being super-boring). Yes, people could probably be more polite about the whole "spacebar" issue, but we are on the Internet, and that tends to bring up the worst in people, according to the Greater Internet Fu*kwad Theorem (aka GIFT).

[Anaesha]

Before I reply, I need to know if you 'truly' think that's what I said, or you were just trying to take a jab at me.

 

Neither answer is good, but one is worse than the other.

 

Considering that pretty much every post you have made across how many different topics on the GFS come down to you telling people the price is fair and that they should just grind dailies all I'm going to tell you is to take your pick of either option.

 

People seem to forget that Guilds are not made up solely of lvl 50 to 55 they also have member ranging from new level 1s to members who are in their 40s but have yet to reach their goal of 50 or 55. These members do not have access to daily areas so they can't grind them daily on 16 to 22 characters for credits.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Anaesha

[Orizuru]

The difference between those and this is that it's centered on Guilds working together at all times aka no PUGS allowed only guild members may participate on what ever missions they were and it was in a way where even a lvl 15 members could could participate and fell like they were contributing and the items used to make the ship were the rewards for completing said mission.

 

I know some people in this game seem to have an allergy to working with other people and prefer to do things solo but in an instance like this working together as a guild to earn the ship itself should be encouraged not just earning the credits the ship.

 

You could treat this like a sandbox a bit. Organize your guild into raising the credits by setting goals that they can work together to complete. This wouldn't be much different than what it sounds like you would prefer, except instead of Bioware providing quests or tasks that are "on rails" for your guild to complete it would be up to you and your guild to design the tasks that are necessary to complete the work and achieve a goal.

 

Organize your guild into groups of gatherers and crafters who help each other produce goods that sell on the GTN. Organize Flashpoints and Operations groups that are more focused on completing content in ways that help to raise credits. Organize groups to do daily missions.

 

The content itself may be the same old stuff you've been doing for months, but if the prize is something everyone wants I think the motivation can be found. It's all about how you present it to them in my opinion. Make competitions out of it. Use a website to track who contributes and how much. You could even setup rewards for players who help to achieve milestones along the way. Make this an opportunity to do something creative and new with the guild using the same old content that they are used to doing anyways. Just have fun with it the best way you can.

 

I imagine you were already having fun playing the old content that already exists because you have a subscription to the game. Certainly that content isn't any less fun because there is a new goal to achieve that requires a lot of credits. You were enjoying it enough to keep paying the sub fees already, so use that enjoyment to help motivate others to help the guild raise the needed credits. Sandboxes are gloriously fun in this way because you can take any of the same old day-to-day tasks in the game and make whatever you want out of them just by applying a little creativity!

[Aries_cz]

The difference between those and this is that it's centered on Guilds working together at all times aka no PUGS allowed only guild members may participate on what ever missions they were and it was in a way where even a lvl 15 members could could participate and fell like they were contributing and the items used to make the ship were the rewards for completing said mission.

 

I know some people in this game seem to have an allergy to working with other people and prefer to do things solo but in an instance like this working together as a guild to earn the ship itself should be encouraged not just earning the credits the ship.

 

Would you mind throwing a link to whatever you people came up with (if it is something more or less coherent)? I would very much like to read it.

 

Still, I think that credits are probably the easiest way, as everybody earns them, no matter what content they play, when they play it and with who they play it. A guild still must "work together" to pool their resources (unless they have some extremely rich and generous members who would be willing to pay it all from their own pocket), as they will have to pool their resources to run conquest events.

 

HK was an individual reward - guild ships are a group reward.

I was trying to make a point that people are complaining if they have to do some sort of content they do not like that much to get the reward. For example, if you were forced to prove how awesome pilot you are in GSF/Space-PvE to earn a "permission" to take command of one of the cruisers, many people would hate that, even though it would help to solve one of the most problematic things with GSF, unbalanced teams, making it more enjoyable for everyone.

Earning credits can be done with ANY content, and at least one type of content must be fun for every player, otherwise they would not be playing.

[mikebevo]

It still comes out to simply throwing credits at the ship.

Nice reply, but has nothing to do with the part of your post I quoted in my reply to you.

 

I am not saying if these features are being implemented in the perfect way. Only thing I am saying if you want them then do whatever you have to in order to get them.

 

If you don't want them, then ignore this content.

 

It truly amazes me!! This has got to be the ONLY game in the entire world where people would RATHER just throw fake money at an in game feature rather then have story driven content that truly gives you and your guild something to work for a TRUE SENSE OF ACCOMPLISHMENT.

If you think that is my argument, then you are sorely mistaken. No I would rather have new content, namely operations, and forget this fluff.

 

I will pretty much ignore this other than helping my guild get it because some of the people in my guild may enjoy it and are looking forward to it. If it adds to their enjoyment of the game who am I to begrudge them that?

 

Personally I don’t get any sense of accomplishment from a game. It is merely a time sink a place where I can go to forget about real life for a couple hours.

 

Of course, I am just as amazed people want something for nothing too.

Edited July 29, 2014 by mikebevo

[Infernixx]

Considering that pretty much every post you have made across how many different topics on the GFS come down to you telling people the price is fair and that they should just grind dailies all I'm going to tell you is to take your pick of either option.

 

People seem to forget that Guilds are not made up solely of lvl 50 to 55 they also have member ranging from new level 1s to members who are in their 40s but have yet to reach their goal of 50 or 55. These members do not have access to daily areas so they can't grind them daily on 16 to 22 characters for credits.

 

At least have the guts to own up to your snark. I take pride in mine.

 

But, thanks for clarifying that you're one of those who like to put words into a person's mouth and then condemn them for those words. Well done, class act, 10/10 would bite again.

 

I make the valid suggestion that Guilds work together as a group to do stuff to make money to buy a Guild Ship and you sneeringly condemn me for excluding sub-55 players.

 

Bravo. True colors, shining through.

[Aries_cz]

It still comes out to simply throwing credits at the ship.

 

Quite Frankly for a Company like Bioware that made a name for themselves with Fantastic interactive stories I'm very disappointed that they resorted to a simple Credit Sink for buying and upgrading guild ships when the possibilities for story driven content were endless.

 

Actually, to upgrade, you need to run the conquest events, which will probably have some sort of story tied to them (we should see on PTS this week), because according to a well know archaeologist from planet Re**it, you need money and loot from conquests to expand the ship.

[Anaesha]

We just threw it together while discussing how we hoped Guild flagships worked no one transcribed it or anything......least no one that I was aware of did.

 

Now that you mentioned it I kind of wish we had.

[MSchuyler]

That is an unfair assessment as most of the people who do that have done the same content on multiple characters they have seen it many times so they try to power through it.

 

Do I agree with this practice especially if there are members who might be seeing it for the first time? No

 

It's not at all "unfair." It's an observation of how many people treat the game in reality, as opposed to what they say they want on forums like this. All these people you claim desire a "true sense of accomplishment" must be hiding in the bushes somewhere. What I see in-game is people wanting to level as fast as possible who resent the planetary quests immensely because they've done them all before and consider them a hindrance to leveling. Am I claiming no one at all ever wants to "feel a true sense of accomplishment"? Of course not, though "feeling" and "true sense" are rather loaded undefinable, value-loaded terms. It's just that the idea is over rated when you compare it to behavior in the game itself. For myself, I would think if a guild banded together, set a goal of raising enough credits to buy a starship, and succeeded in this goal, that would yield a "true sense of accomplishment." That's how it usually works in real life.

 

That they don't get to do it in a way they fantasized would be a cool way to do it does not instill in BW an obligation to do it according to this or that fantasy. The dye is cast. A ship costs XX credits. A Mercedes 550 costs $100 grand. If you want either, find a way to do it. That's the original idea behind this thread. You want a starship? Get a job. If you are under the delusion that you are entitled to be entertained because you paid an admission fee, by all means sit in the bleachers and watch the game. If that bores you or does not otherwise meet your expectations, you needn't buy a season ticket.

[Anaesha]

Nice reply, but has nothing to do with the part of your post I quoted in my reply to you.

 

I am not saying if these features are being implemented in the perfect way. Only thing I am saying if you want them then do whatever you have to in order to get them.

 

If you don't want them, then ignore this content.

 

 

If you think that is my argument, then you are sorely mistaken. No I would rather have new content, namely operations, and forget this fluff.

 

I will pretty much ignore this other than helping my guild get it because some of the people in my guild enjoy it and are looking forward to it. If it adds to their enjoyment of the game who am I to begrudge them that?

 

Personally I don’t get any sense of accomplishment from a game. It is merely a time sink a place where I can go to forget about real life for a couple hours.

 

Of course, I am just as amazed people want something for nothing too.

 

This part of my post wasn't actually aimed at you I just didn't bother quoting his wall of text. I apologize if you thought it was aimed at you.

 

It truly amazes me!! This has got to be the ONLY game in the entire world where people would RATHER just throw fake money at an in game feature rather then have story driven content that truly gives you and your guild something to work for a TRUE SENSE OF ACCOMPLISHMENT.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Anaesha

[MSchuyler]

Considering that pretty much every post you have made across how many different topics on the GFS come down to you telling people the price is fair and that they should just grind dailies all I'm going to tell you is to take your pick of either option.

 

People seem to forget that Guilds are not made up solely of lvl 50 to 55 they also have member ranging from new level 1s to members who are in their 40s but have yet to reach their goal of 50 or 55. These members do not have access to daily areas so they can't grind them daily on 16 to 22 characters for credits.

 

You appear to be "speaking for the rest of us" and that is in error. For example, i have a mid-40's Sith with a million credits. I didn't do anything fancy to get them. I just picked up drops and sold them if I could. I didn't even do flashpoints or heroics. I could easily afford a half million credits as my contribution to a guild ship. It wouldn't break the bank and I wouldn't miss the credits. It's NOT just about 50-55s. A much broader range could participate if they wanted to.

[mikebevo]

No problem at all.

 

Sorry if this stirred a sore spot with people. I really did the OP tongue firmly stuck in cheek and I really meant to only made fun of myself in the post.

[Transcendent]

Not true. I took my 55 Scoundrel into HM Xeno in heal spec with 140 barrels/armor in his MH and OH. Zero fatalities. And I don't usually do Op/Sc healing, but it's pretty easy to be good-but-not-great at it.

 

No offence, I rarely play my healer, although better geared than yours. I was twiddling my thumbs healing HM Xeno, it isn't exactly any form of challenge is it? I've seen healers go in with full 140 gear and be in a similar situation, the only time they'll struggle is if the tank does something stupid on thermal.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Transcendent

[BuriDogshin]

No offence, I rarely play my healer, although better geared than yours. I was twiddling my thumbs healing HM Xeno, it isn't exactly any form of challenge is it? I've seen healers go in with full 140 gear and be in a similar situation, the only time they'll struggle is if the tank does something stupid on thermal.

None taken, I agree with you. I was simply refuting the statement someone made that people with lots of 55 alts don't bring undergeared toons to Xeno HM. Some of us occasionally do. Some of us also bring over-geared 186/180 monsters on occasion. It all balances out.

 

My Scoundrel is interesting case, because he is the only alt for whom I cannot buy an offhand using the abundance of Elite coms my Imp toons have. The Imp-side com vendors do not sell shotguns, so all the Imp-side Cunning offhands are vibroknives with barrels bound to "knife." So now I have to earn some coms on the Pub side, something I have not done much lately, even though my first two toons were Pubs. It'll be fun - I hope!

 

I imagine if I was trying to gear an Imp Agent using coms from Pub side play, I'd face the same barrier.