Good Intention should equal Rewards

[Anaesha]

Just for fun I'll leave this here

 

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"

[BuriDogshin]

You completely missed TUX's point... how many people in the game have that much cash. His point was, very, very few people do.

What is your source for this conclusion? And what does "very very few" mean? Among the players I know, I'd guess more than 10% of them have more than 100 million credits, not including the value of the mats they have stacked in storage, which mats are worth more than that by a large margin.

 

I am relatively poor by comparison, but even I have millions of credits worth of MMGs and EEEs alone.

Edited July 29, 2014 by BuriDogshin

[TX_Angel]

We (wife and I) also ran Xeno 8 times, SM and HM, mix of Imp and Pub, including three groups we formed. Lots of undergeared players striving for the Gray helixes since the event may not be back for a long time, including a level 54. One HM wipe, because the tanks had never done it before. We explained the fight to them, and cleared HM. Most HM attempts had zero fatalities.

 

If teams you were in had less success, well, I cannot guess why.

 

Ahh, aren't you snarky...

 

People because can talk the talk but not walk the walk... Quite a few well geared tanks are amazingly bad at times, tried last night with a pair of tanks both over 40k, both in 180 gear, both sounded like they knew what they were doing... until thermal tolerance came along and they kept wiping because they couldn't LOS and taunt properly.

 

Me? I do HM ops in 168 or better gear, I know my rotations, we don't wipe because of me. My 156/162 gear toons I take into SM ops so long as we have a good team, and then only in 16 man groups. I wouldn't take that into an 8 man group.

 

I did do one fun run last night... KP HM, 8 man, every single one of us was in 180... Felt more like a tactical FP than a HM op. Walked right over it...

 

--------------

 

Back to my point, if those undergeared players ALL had 5+ million credits, as the OP was trying to imply, they could easily afford 156 purples at the very least, those are no longer expensive in any form. Heck, with that much money, a full set of 14 purple 156 augments and kits would be easy to afford, and THAT makes a world of difference in HM content.

[TX_Angel]

What is your source for this conclusion? And what does "very very few" mean? Among the players I know, I'd guess more than 10% of them have more than 100 million credits, not including the value of the mats they have stacked in storage, which mats are worth more than that by a large margin.

 

I am relatively poor by comparison, but even I have millions of credits worth of MMGs and EEEs alone.

 

Then you are very, very fringe in your place in the game. Do not presume that your situation and the situation of your friends reflects the general population.

 

Get out and PUG some, you'll see a LOT of poor players. People who have crap gear and no money.

[Infernixx]

What is your source for this conclusion? And what does "very very few" mean? Among the players I know, I'd guess more than 10% of them have more than 100 million credits, not including the value of the mats they have stacked in storage, which mats are worth more than that by a large margin.

 

I am relatively poor by comparison, but even I have millions of credits worth of MMGs and EEEs alone.

 

They have no source. They only have gut feeling and assumption.

 

Meanwhile, the people who make and run the game know exactly how many credits we all have, how many we make in a day, how many we spend in a day, how much are in the Gbanks and what we spend our credits on.

 

So, naturally, the forum posters believe that BW is wrong and 'they' are right because. Because because.

[Zoom_VI]

It's a game. I play to have fun, not grind credits. The "rewards" given in this game for playing it, don't reflect 50 million-130million credit sinks.

 

Did it never occur to you, that maybe the cost of it is to make it so the content has a much longer lifecycle? Maybe if people can't unlock everything and do all the content on the first day, they won't be complaining the day after patch about lack of content?

 

Lord knows this game needs some serious timesinks if they want players to stick around.

[mikebevo]

People because can talk the talk but not walk the walk... Quite a few well geared tanks are amazingly bad at times, tried last night with a pair of tanks both over 40k, both in 180 gear, both sounded like they knew what they were doing... until thermal tolerance came along and they kept wiping because they couldn't LOS and taunt properly.

No shadows or scoundrels? Stealth rez their butt and move on. Sorry just spoiled by mumble (voice) that little things like that don't wipe the group, but that is a pet peeve of mine for another thread. We ran this under manned with all variety of gear 8 times, but then again these were guild runs and we were on voice. So much easier to change strategies based on where we were with dps. Edited July 29, 2014 by mikebevo

[Infernixx]

Then you are very, very fringe in your place in the game. Do not presume that your situation and the situation of your friends reflects the general population.

 

Get out and PUG some, you'll see a LOT of poor players. People who have crap gear and no money.

 

See, here's the problem we have with your statement. It's based purely on anecdotal evidence. Biased evidence because you can't see how many credits people have. Those people you see with bad gear? Maybe it's a person's 15 alt and they simply don't have time to gear them up properly. They could have 700mil credits in the bank but if they lack the time, all the credits in the world won't matter.

 

Besides, they could be cheap.

 

On the other hand, we have BW who have intimate knowledge of all the credits in the system. They know who has what and how many, how many are spent, how many are made and what we're spending it all on.

 

So, if I simply have to take their pricing as legitimate over gut feeling and imprecise anecdotal evidence based on a limited perspective and no real grasp or knowledge of how many credits anyone other than themselves and maybe a few of their friends.

[Infernixx]

Did it never occur to you, that maybe the cost of it is to make it so the content has a much longer lifecycle? Maybe if people can't unlock everything and do all the content on the first day, they won't be complaining the day after patch about lack of content?

 

Lord knows this game needs some serious timesinks if they want players to stick around.

 

There's merit in this, too. Maybe we'd see less whining about content if people had to pace themselves in doing stuff.

[BuriDogshin]

[RE: wiping on HM Xeno:]

Ahh, aren't you snarky...

People because can talk the talk but not walk the walk... Quite a few well geared tanks are amazingly bad at times, tried last night with a pair of tanks both over 40k, both in 180 gear, both sounded like they knew what they were doing... until thermal tolerance came along and they kept wiping because they couldn't LOS and taunt properly.

 

Me? I do HM ops in 168 or better gear, I know my rotations, we don't wipe because of me.

That's nice, I suppose, but can you lead a team of newbies to victory? It seems not. No shame in that, it's not a common ability. I am not particularly good at it, so it was my wife who explained the fights.

Back to my point, if those undergeared players ALL had 5+ million credits, as the OP was trying to imply, they could easily afford 156 purples at the very least, those are no longer expensive in any form. Heck, with that much money, a full set of 14 purple 156 augments and kits would be easy to afford, and THAT makes a world of difference in HM content.

Just because someone has the credits doesn't mean they will spend it as you would like them to.

Given that undergeared players are routinely carried through even HM Xeno, why would they bother?

 

Plus I've seen an "undergeared" tank perform flawlessly on Xeno. Skill matters, after all.

[TX_Angel]

They have no source. They only have gut feeling and assumption.

 

Meanwhile, the people who make and run the game know exactly how many credits we all have, how many we make in a day, how many we spend in a day, how much are in the Gbanks and what we spend our credits on.

 

So, naturally, the forum posters believe that BW is wrong and 'they' are right because. Because because.

 

You can be snarky all you like...

 

My source is my experience, that of pugging and using GF and seeing how many crap people are wearing and when told how cheap it is to fix, they tend to say, "oh, I don't have that much".

 

Really, you don't have 30K credits to buy a pair of 156 purple barrels off the GTN? And you're trying to do ops?

 

Yea, I've had that conversation so many times, I can't count them anymore.

 

I actually had someone tell me they couldn't afford to buy any gear because they bought a bunch of emotes and mounts off the GTN. So they DID have credits, and put them all into the wrong stuff, at least for doing end game content.

 

I always try to help people, but so many people simply don't want to be be helped. I am not suggesting they have to grind millions and buy 162+ gear off the GTN, that is stupid. But the 156 stuff is cheap. 250k will get you a pair of implants, a pair of barrels or hilts, an ear, and some armor and mods for your gear to fill in the holes.

 

250k takes 1-2 hours of play, done right. I've offered to run newer 55s through Oricon to get FREE gear, and they still don't want to do it.

 

So don't tell me I don't have a source or don't know what I'm talking about. A handful of rich people do not make up for the majority of poor. And rich people didn't get that way, usually, by being stupid about their money.

 

<- as one of those "rich people" who can afford LS, I'm simply not interested, because I understand the time value of money.

[TX_Angel]

Did it never occur to you, that maybe the cost of it is to make it so the content has a much longer lifecycle? Maybe if people can't unlock everything and do all the content on the first day, they won't be complaining the day after patch about lack of content?

 

Lord knows this game needs some serious timesinks if they want players to stick around.

 

Or could it be that there isn't really any "new content" and this is trying to cover it up?

 

The problem with such time sinks is that while some will do it, people do figure it out sooner or later and when they do, you'll loose them forever. It also creates a hurdle for new players who look at the prices and say, "ok, never mind then..."

[Infernixx]

You can be snarky all you like...

 

My source is my experience, that of pugging and using GF and seeing how many crap people are wearing and when told how cheap it is to fix, they tend to say, "oh, I don't have that much".

 

Really, you don't have 30K credits to buy a pair of 156 purple barrels off the GTN? And you're trying to do ops?

 

Yea, I've had that conversation so many times, I can't count them anymore.

 

I actually had someone tell me they couldn't afford to buy any gear because they bought a bunch of emotes and mounts off the GTN. So they DID have credits, and put them all into the wrong stuff, at least for doing end game content.

 

I always try to help people, but so many people simply don't want to be be helped. I am not suggesting they have to grind millions and buy 162+ gear off the GTN, that is stupid. But the 156 stuff is cheap. 250k will get you a pair of implants, a pair of barrels or hilts, an ear, and some armor and mods for your gear to fill in the holes.

 

250k takes 1-2 hours of play, done right. I've offered to run newer 55s through Oricon to get FREE gear, and they still don't want to do it.

 

So don't tell me I don't have a source or don't know what I'm talking about. A handful of rich people do not make up for the majority of poor. And rich people didn't get that way, usually, by being stupid about their money.

 

<- as one of those "rich people" who can afford LS, I'm simply not interested, because I understand the time value of money.

 

Your personal experience means nothing compared to the hard numbers that BW is using to base this pricing on.

 

You can certainly 'believe' that it's overpriced, but the moment you actually expect us to take your 'personal experience' as evidence why it should be lowered is when I have to roll my eyes and laugh and walk away. Because there's simply no comparison.

[TX_Angel]

No shadows or scoundrels? Stealth rez their butt and move on. Sorry just spoiled by mumble (voice) that little things like that don't wipe the group, but that is a pet peeve of mine for another thread. We ran this under manned with all variety of gear 8 times, but then again these were guild runs and we were on voice. So much easier to change strategies based on where we were with dps.

 

We did, and they died the second time...

 

Then we explained (those of us who know what we're doing) the swap again between runs, and they DID IT AGAIN the second try.

 

Sigh...

 

Watching it was almost comical, and sad in a way...

[Eanelinea]

^This

 

Maybe if they doubled the credit rewards for all missions in the game and actually started giving out Credit rewards for bonus missions instead of just XP it might but as it is the "daily grind" makes one begin to burn out to the point that even when they have free time to play the game they find they would rather do something else instead.

 

That was part of the reason I left a year ago, besides other RL obligations I simply got burned out and found myself not wanting to play.

 

Burn out? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

Let's speak of burn out. I have been with this day since 1.0 (missed Beta and such). I am STILL playing this game and it's now, what...2.8 something or other? As my signature will tell you, on one server I've done each story 2-3 times each class. I have done every single thing in this game. Maybe not from start to finish as pvp isn't my forte but I HAVE pvp'd. I've Space Mission'd, GSF'd, Gree, Rakghoul 1 and 2, Chevon, etc etc happy cakes. And I've NEVER missed a single day of playing a toon ever.

 

If you can't get past doing dailies on one or two toons every day to every other day, MMOs might not be your cup of tea. (Yes, I work and help raise a family).

[BuriDogshin]

Then you are very, very fringe in your place in the game. Do not presume that your situation and the situation of your friends reflects the general population..

How do you know I am very fringe? Please provide the data that allowed you to reach that conclusion.

And BTW I do pug, quite a lot. My wife and I like to drop Heal+Tank duos into HM55 FP GF, for example. Pretty good luck doing it too, cannot remember the last time we wiped while doing that.

Edited July 29, 2014 by BuriDogshin

[TX_Angel]

See, here's the problem we have with your statement. It's based purely on anecdotal evidence. Biased evidence because you can't see how many credits people have. Those people you see with bad gear? Maybe it's a person's 15 alt and they simply don't have time to gear them up properly. They could have 700mil credits in the bank but if they lack the time, all the credits in the world won't matter.

 

Besides, they could be cheap.

 

Oh your post is SO full of bad and wrong information, really, read what you wrote above, it is scary...

 

You say that people could be CHEAP? Really? When they THEY ARE NOT GOING TO PAY 50 MILLION TO UNLOCK LEGACY STORAGE, now are they?

 

As for having lots of money and 15 alts, THOSE PEOPLE DO NOT SHOW UP at LVL 55 in 140 or lower gear... they know how to play!

 

If nothing else, they can easily afford 156 ears, implants, barrels/hilts, etc... they also can afford augments which have to be purchased or crafted, they don't drop anywhere.

[TX_Angel]

That's nice, I suppose, but can you lead a team of newbies to victory? It seems not. No shame in that, it's not a common ability. I am not particularly good at it, so it was my wife who explained the fights.

 

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

 

Plus I've seen an "undergeared" tank perform flawlessly on Xeno. Skill matters, after all.

 

It does, but these tanks lacked the skill, explaining it to them twice made no difference. HM tanks should understand tank swaps, these two did not.

[BuriDogshin]

I always try to help people, but so many people simply don't want to be be helped.

That's too broad a conclusion. All you can really say is that they don't want your help.

Maybe it's your personality, I don't know.

[TX_Angel]

Your personal experience means nothing compared to the hard numbers that BW is using to base this pricing on.

 

You can certainly 'believe' that it's overpriced, but the moment you actually expect us to take your 'personal experience' as evidence why it should be lowered is when I have to roll my eyes and laugh and walk away. Because there's simply no comparison.

 

You go ahead and keep cheerleading, you do it so well...

 

One day you may or may not wake up and realize that you're just eating cake that has no core value to it, as sweet as it tastes at the time.

 

Or you may not, many people remain ignorant all their lives. In my experience, such people are so sure they know something they never bother to find out. From your posts, you are one such person.

[TX_Angel]

That's too broad a conclusion. All you can really say is that they don't want your help.

Maybe it's your personality, I don't know.

 

Based on your personalty, I never, ever want to play with you.

 

The "I know it all attitude" and the "I'm a better player than you" attitude gets old really fast.

[mikebevo]

Really, you don't have 30K credits to buy a pair of 156 purple barrels off the GTN? And you're trying to do ops?.

Why would anyone buy a 156 barrel off the GTN? Now for a alt I bought 180 barrels (well had them made for matts), no way I am going to waste any credits on something so outdated. I will not even waste comms on that stuff.

 

I believe I have 11, maybe 12 toons 55. I normally only play 3 weekly, but during events I will use others to maximize Rep until maxed. Some of my toons are in extremely crappy gear. That does not mean I don't have credits, it only means I gear toons I actually play and the ones that will maximize my ease of play. I gear my healers for fast pops in FPs and the fact that I want to be geared well enough so that I can get any group I am with through any HMFP I attempt. In other words I want to be extremely overgeared to compensate for crappy gear or others and lack of game awareness.

 

The difference is, unless it is a guild run, I will not take a character I play into a instance with a pug unless I need no gear from that instance and only looking for matts, comms or vanity equipment (which I don't care about). If you see my crappy geared alt running around an event, don't even think I'm broke. I'm not, I'm just to lazy to gear them. Even that toon has a least a million on them.

Edited July 29, 2014 by mikebevo

[BuriDogshin]

As for having lots of money and 15 alts, THOSE PEOPLE DO NOT SHOW UP at LVL 55 in 140 or lower gear... they know how to play!

Not true. I took my 55 Scoundrel into HM Xeno in heal spec with 140 barrels/armor in his MH and OH. Zero fatalities. And I don't usually do Op/Sc healing, but it's pretty easy to be good-but-not-great at it.

 

So please stop making stuff up and posting it, it's ridiculous. Especially in all caps.

[Neothanos]

So far the only thing i think is way overpriced and barely useful is legacy storage.

 

Otherwise taking away the op pretendious condescending tone I kinda of agree with him.

[Infernixx]

You go ahead and keep cheerleading, you do it so well...

 

One day you may or may not wake up and realize that you're just eating cake that has no core value to it, as sweet as it tastes at the time.

 

Or you may not, many people remain ignorant all their lives. In my experience, such people are so sure they know something they never bother to find out. From your posts, you are one such person.

 

So, you got nothing. Nothing at all to counter the simple reality that you have no real clue how rich/poor the player base is. You're clueless as to the whole credit thing. You just think the price is too high because you 'want' it but you don't want to pay 50mil credits for the whole thing.

 

That's all it is. Be honest, at least. You're not worried about the players, you're not worried about 'wasted development'..You just want those LS tabs and you don't want to pay 50mil for them.

 

And it's funny that you speak of ignorance when I'm the one relying on the people 'with' the knowledge and you're the one say 'look at the players, they have bad gear, therefore poor!'

 

Now, respond so I can restate my points again.