50 million...how will you protect the players?

[Aries_cz]

I'm aware of that - your point?

 

This

And yes, visible ledger by all in the guild. They should know what others have contributed. Not to shame anyone, more to THANK them.

sounded like you wanted something like that to exist, so I told you it already exists.

The Ship is bought with Guild Bank money, and the Guild bank has a ledger function already.

[errant_knight]

If you're truly worried, have the gm post a statement of intent in guild chat and take a screenshot of it. I still say you shouldn't be in a guild what you don't know or trust the gm though. Bioware can't act on fraud arranged in ts/vent. They can when it's provable and arranged in game. Edited July 25, 2014 by errant_knight

[TUXs]

This

 

sounded like you wanted something like that to exist, so I told you it already exists.

The Ship is bought with Guild Bank money, and the Guild bank has a ledger function already.

Not what I was referring to. People were wondering, if we had a separate funds vault specifically for the ship, if it should be visible and have a visible ledger.

[aeterno]

How is this fundamentally different to the intra guild dynamics that already exist about repair funds?

[hadoken]

How is this fundamentally different to the intra guild dynamics that already exist about repair funds?

 

It isn't. Their support center will use the same procedures they have been using since launch with regards to guild masters 'stealing' things from the guild bank.

Edited July 25, 2014 by hadoken

[BuriDogshin]

It's less of a stretch to get to 15-25mil though, than it is 50mil.

If that's your only reason for lowering the price of guild ships, they should be free, right? Free is even less of a stretch.

 

Fact is, like anything else, demand will determine the price of guild ships. If they sell well at 50 million creds, then that price was not too high. Once ships have sold for that price, lowering it will would cause some resentment among the people who worked to get them at 50 mil. So I would not count on the price ever going down unless sales of guild ships are bloody awful at launch.

 

BW can track guild funds. They probably have been doing so ever since guild ships were announced, and may have set the price based on how much money they saw being added to guild funds after the announcement of guild ships, which is likely to be a good predictor of how much people are willing to pay for guild ships.

 

As to protecting the players from thieving guild masters, BW should do nothing. Players should learn to protect themselves (L2P). It will serve them well in real life.

Edited July 25, 2014 by BuriDogshin

[jedip_enguin]

How is this fundamentally different to the intra guild dynamics that already exist about repair funds?

 

Its not, its just that it happens to have a nice big round number attached to it this time.

[Doreian]

There's a difference between having access to minor XP boosts, exploration boosts and brown/puke dyes than there is 50 million credits.

 

If that is all you have in your guild bank then what is the point of having a guild bank? Or a guild ship for that matter?

[Joesixxpack]

If that is all you have in your guild bank then what is the point of having a guild bank? Or a guild ship for that matter?

 

THIS JUST IN! How and why guilds use their banks differently isn't relevant!

[DarthOvertone]

I've known one of my Guild Leaders for almost the entire existence of this game. He is a close friend and I love the dude to death.

 

However, I trust him about as far as I can throw him. I can only imagine the temptation he will get wracked with when 50 million credits are staring him in the face. heh

[Pathlight-]

Solution:

 

Implement a guild bank specifically designed to receive funds from guild members toward buying the guild ship.

 

Each guild member can deposit and withdraw funds from this guild bank.

 

The guild bank displays a log of deposits and withdrawals that can be consulted by any member of the guild.

 

Once the 50M creds is reached, the GM can buy the ship through this bank.

 

At no point can any guild member withdraw funds that he didn't deposit himself.

 

Foolproof.

 

EDIT:

 

I see you crafty buggers already came up with the idea

Edited July 25, 2014 by Pathlight-

[Master_Hitsugaya]

Bioware, if you're going to charge 50 million for guild ships, I hope you have thought about the ramifications that will come with such a high price. Since there's no universal taxing system for guilds, this will be 100% dependent on player trust and player contributions. What policies are you putting in place to prevent abuse and protect those who contribute?

 

Obviously you have a way to refund players contributions if they're kicked from the guild right?

 

And you've devised a way to prevent some single player from emptying the entire bank and making off with the $?

 

And there's no possibility of my contribution being used to fund repairs right?

 

The abuses that will come with a cost this high are many...but...you guys have of course thought about that right?

 

If you're going to ask a price so high, that only contributing players can possibly pay for it, you have an obligation to protect the players from the fraud that will inevitably follow. So what safeguards are you implementing to protect players who contribute to this outrageous sum?

 

as an unofficial bioware rep( meaning I am just someone who is not a complete dumb azz and only affiliation I have with bioware is I play their games)

 

1 any contributions made to a guild can not be refunded.

 

2 if any one player makes off with the entirety of a guild credits then credit will be refunded on a case by case basis

 

3 if you donate credits to your guild there is always a chance they will be used for repair(unless your guild leader sets the credit allowance for al players to 0)

 

 

 

 

I seriously don't know how you expect them to refund people credits after being kicked or how you could know if credits being used for repairs are the exact same credits you donated(same serial number and everything)

 

 

so here is how it is and should be you ether donate credits or you don't plane and simple.

[Nickious]

Solution:

 

Implement a guild bank specifically designed to receive funds from guild members toward buying the guild ship.

 

Each guild member can deposit and withdraw funds from this guild bank.

 

The guild bank displays a log of deposits and withdrawals that can be consulted by any member of the guild.

 

Once the 50M creds is reached, the GM can buy the ship through this bank.

 

At no point can any guild member withdraw funds that he didn't deposit himself.

 

Foolproof.

 

I like that idea. Will Bioware likely implement such a solution/? I doubt it.

[mikebevo]

Remember, EA/BW does not involve itself with "guild drama".[/Quote] Nor should they IMO. If they don't violate terms of service, then BioWare should stay out of it. A guild should handle its own drama, better yet a guild should try to keep drama out of it.

 

The guild should protect the players. I also do not believe the amount is too much. I wouldn't be in a guild that forced me or anyone else to contribute, it should be the players choice.

Edited July 25, 2014 by mikebevo

[ivanhedgehog]

Fully Agree, At 25 Mil, There isn't much risk involved and it gives lesser guilds with valid complaints an easier time at getting one.

 

I know some will say guild ships should be prestige but I say BS, all content should be easily accessible to a player.

 

Reno, for once I fully agree with you. 25 mill is doable for small guilds..50 is in the not even bother with it range.

[Doreian]

THIS JUST IN! How and why guilds use their banks differently isn't relevant!

 

 

Did you even read the post I made and the response he made? Don't pipe in with some snide comment that makes no sense whatsoever in the context of the conversation. You are on page 6 and missed the 5 pages before it.

[ikinai]

Its plain and simple. If you do not trust your guild leader or guild mates then leave the guild. It is not mandatory to have a guild ship either. If you or anyone else are in a guild just for the perks and hardly know anyone then you are doing it wrong.

 

If you are in a guild and know everyone and have good relations then there isn't anything to protect. I mean the guild leader has had access to EVERYTHING in the guild bank already and hasn't made off with the stuff so why start worrying now?

 

Step 1: Recruit unsuspecting new players.

Step 2: Request credits for guild capitol ship for fun and frivolity of all

Step 3: GKick new recruits

[ivanhedgehog]

If that's your only reason for lowering the price of guild ships, they should be free, right? Free is even less of a stretch.

 

Fact is, like anything else, demand will determine the price of guild ships. If they sell well at 50 million creds, then that price was not too high. Once ships have sold for that price, lowering it will would cause some resentment among the people who worked to get them at 50 mil. So I would not count on the price ever going down unless sales of guild ships are bloody awful at launch.

 

BW can track guild funds. They probably have been doing so ever since guild ships were announced, and may have set the price based on how much money they saw being added to guild funds after the announcement of guild ships, which is likely to be a good predictor of how much people are willing to pay for guild ships.

 

As to protecting the players from thieving guild masters, BW should do nothing. Players should learn to protect themselves (L2P). It will serve them well in real life.

 

and that is exactly the attitude that cost the current devs so many subscriptions. good business practices and all that.

[Joesixxpack]

Did you even read the post I made and the response he made? Don't pipe in with some snide comment that makes no sense whatsoever in the context of the conversation. You are on page 6 and missed the 5 pages before it.

 

Nah ah silly goose. Your point is based on an assumption that isn't relevant.

Edited July 25, 2014 by Joesixxpack

[aeterno]

Bottom line is internet and MMOs are just like real life. You meat real people and you run the risk of some of them being up to no good & the risk of making a bad investment.

 

Any group activity/goal has the risk of it going bad. That's what happens when you have a group of individuals. Unpredictable stuff that peeves some people off.

 

There are already more than enough safeguards in place in terms of the thing not going for CC. Now it's just a guild grind/project. Only thing I fault BW for is taking the unimaginative route of charging credits and not masking the grind more behind a truckload of mats. But I guess the temptation of the mother of all credit drains was too strong lol.

 

For god's sake sack up, if anyone on the EVE forums finds this topic we'll be the laughing stock of the MMO world.

 

Contribute whatever you feel comfortable to the guild you're in. If you don't trust your GM and guild mates you need a new guild. And if you get burned take it on the chin and learn from it. Maybe the guy you just met that asks you for 10mil credits on god faith isn't to be trusted right from the word go. At least you'll be ready for the Nigerian prince.

Edited July 25, 2014 by aeterno

[well]

Step 1: Recruit unsuspecting new players.

Step 2: Request credits for guild capitol ship for fun and frivolity of all

Step 3: GKick new recruits

 

You can count on that.

[Grayseven]

Bottom line is internet and MMOs are just like real life. You meat real people and you run the risk of some of them being up to no good & the risk of making a bad investment.

 

Any group activity/goal has the risk of it going bad. That's what happens when you have a group of individuals. Unpredictable stuff that peeves some people off.

 

There are already more than enough safeguards in place in terms of the thing not going for CC. Now it's just a guild grind/project. Only thing I fault BW for is taking the unimaginative route of charging credits and not masking the grind more behind a truckload of mats. But I guess the temptation of the mother of all credit drains was too strong lol.

 

For god's sake sack up, if anyone on the EVE forums finds this topic we'll be the laughing stock of the MMO world.

 

Contribute whatever you feel comfortable to the guild you're in. If you don't trust your GM and guild mates you need a new guild. And if you get burned take it on the chin and learn from it. Maybe the guy you just met that asks you for 10mil credits on god faith isn't to be trusted right from the word go. At least you'll be ready for the Nigerian prince.

 

People in real life aren't anonymous. Real life has real consequences for bad actions.

 

If I steal in real life, I get punished if I am caught. If I am a complete d-bag to everyone, I reap the results of being a d-bag because people know who I am.

 

The internet and MMO's are NOTHING like real life.

[well]

Bottom line is internet and MMOs are just like real life. You meat real people and you run the risk of some of them being up to no good & the risk of making a bad investment.

 

Any group activity/goal has the risk of it going bad. That's what happens when you have a group of individuals. Unpredictable stuff that peeves some people off.

 

There are already more than enough safeguards in place in terms of the thing not going for CC. Now it's just a guild grind/project. Only thing I fault BW for is taking the unimaginative route of charging credits and not masking the grind more behind a truckload of mats. But I guess the temptation of the mother of all credit drains was too strong lol.

 

For god's sake sack up, if anyone on the EVE forums finds this topic we'll be the laughing stock of the MMO world.

 

Contribute whatever you feel comfortable to the guild you're in. If you don't trust your GM and guild mates you need a new guild. And if you get burned take it on the chin and learn from it. Maybe the guy you just met that asks you for 10mil credits on god faith isn't to be trusted right from the word go. At least you'll be ready for the Nigerian prince.

 

No way Dude! It is the internet. No one lies or cheats:eek:

[DreadtechSavant]

Our guild don't think its worth it, but I tend to think that most players are honest people so for me trust is not the issue. However I do run guilds myself and most are saying they are not willing to pay 50mil, in-fact only 3 said they would pay if it was around the 10mil, then again these are also the players who would spend 2-5mil on getting a Rancor which again most of us simply would not do.

 

I am also in guilds that are run by other players as I play on all the English speaking severs both UK and US, and have to say if those guild are putting money towards this ship which I will need to find out about, then sorry but not using my credits so guess I will be on the look out for new guilds or just play without been in a guild. Will check each guild first before I quit as many are not going to bother. I think its mainly going to be guilds which are heavily into PvP which are going to be those mainly after the guild ships but since I don't really belong to any heavy PvP guilds, probably not going to affect me much in the long run.

 

Anyway going back to the OP question, really if your guildmaster were inclined to rip there guild members off, you would probably already know by now. Certainly for established guilds, new guild well as I said I tend to trust unless given reason not to. How they will protect players? well not really sure that's possible.

Edited July 25, 2014 by DreadtechSavant

[TX_Angel]

People in real life aren't anonymous. Real life has real consequences for bad actions.

 

If I steal in real life, I get punished if I am caught. If I am a complete d-bag to everyone, I reap the results of being a d-bag because people know who I am.

 

The internet and MMO's are NOTHING like real life.

 

^ This...

 

In real life, if we have an agreement and I provide you money for a future service, I have remedies open to me via the police and court system (depending on the situation).

 

Would I be willing to provide 10 million credits toward a Guild Ship? Sure, if I could provide myself some protections. Since I can't, I won't.

 

The game doesn't offer any of those real life type protections, it is a flaw in the guild system. (or perhaps a feature, depending on your point of view)