SW:TOR 4th biggest Sub MMO in the world

[Draqsko]

Someone else already pointed that out two or three posts up... doesn't anyone bother to check replies any more?

 

Not my fault you spent a page arguing with someone.. So yeah, it was 2 pages downstream from where I was in the thread, so sue me.

[Deewe]

Someone else already pointed that out two or three posts up... doesn't anyone bother to check replies any more?

And even way above that it was 2013 report and even above that the subs was more around 200k rest being CM sales and even above that players are getting very thin content and even above that that they could make a few new MMO with that budget.

 

Always interesting to see how threads spins

[LordArtemis]

The report is total revenue, which includes microtransaction sales. It is not an indicator of subs.

[Draqsko]

And even way above that it was 2013 report and even above that the subs was more around 200k rest being CM sales and even above that players are getting very thin content and even above that that they could make a few new MMO with that budget.

 

Always interesting to see how threads spins

 

Yes, let's ignore the fact that BW runs it's fiscal year from March 31 to March 31, so the numbers are from the second quarter of 2013 until second quarter of 2014... The only information that isn't there for 2014 is from April until present, which is 4 months.

 

People you need to grasp that corporate fiscal years do not need to coincide with calendar years. They may have the same length, but they do not start at the same time.

 

And yes, it is interesting how people spin threads to conform to their confirmation biases.

[RiVaN_]

A good indicator of how many registered users there have been (not how many there actually are right now) is to point to a user's name in the forums. That tells you what # registered user (subscriber) they are. Yes registration for the Forums started in 2008, so maybe not all of those people subscribed, but I bet many of them did.

 

Anyway, I have seen registration numbers in excess of 8 million posting on the forums.

 

I'm not saying that there are currently 8 million subscribers right now, but over the last 2 and a half years over 8 million people have played this game. Played not necessarily paid to play

 

As the MMO market evolves releasing a game that is a Pay to play/subscription based format is a risky move. Both ESO and Wildstar have gotten A LOT of flack from the critics because they didn't include F2P from the start. More and More people want F2P and as more and more options are released into the market the Subscription based games are going to lose people to free games.

 

The fact that SWTOR is 4th in revenue behind games that have been around for so long is a testament to it's popularity and tells me that it will out survive many other games on the market right now. Yeah it is likely that ESO and Wildstar could have more subscribers than SWTOR, but SWTOR is making more money and it takes $ to keep the servers running and to keep developing content.

 

 

We can criticize EA, BW and SWTOR all we want, but the bottom line is that they are 4th in revenue behind 3 monsters of the world wide MMO market.

[Selenial]

EDIT: wow... the site actually formatted my capital letters away? /Sad panda

 

You need a minimum of One non caps'd letter per post or it'll make them all lower case, yeh.

[Bluejayoo]

Since WOW is being used as a benchmark for SWTOR's release of new content (which is probably flawed, but so be it)...

 

I present the following for all of the posters here that like to talk out of their rear ends rather than check basic facts available through simple searches, here is a list of the level increases and and expansions for both WOW and SWTOR.

 

 

Year Release Level

2004 WOW Release 60

2005 60

2006 60

2007 The Burning Crusade 70

2008 Wrath of the Lich King 80

2009 80

2010 Cataclysm 85

2011 85

2012 Mists of Pandaria 90

2013 90

2014 Warlords of Draenor (?) 100

2015

 

 

Year Release Level

2011 SWTOR Release 50

2012 50

2013 Hutt Cartel 55

2014 GSF 55

 

 

WOW went almost 3 years from its first release until an expansion pack and level increase. SWTOR's first expansion pack came almost twice as fast even though it was only half as high of a level increase. If SWTOR were to release a level increase in the next 6 months, even if it was only 5 levels, it would be right on track as far as WOW's history is concerned. Arguable the content expansions of SWTOR are being released at a faster rate than WOW saw in its first several years. Oddly enough SWTOR and WOW will get player housing on about the same date.

 

It took WOW 3 years to see the release of new races (Burning Crusades) versus a year for SWTOR, though the WOW races were much bigger releases as the new races included cities and other race specific content and SWTOR's race releases were nothing more than additional skins for player characters.

 

WOW took 4 years to add a new classes (Death Knight with WOLK). SWTOR hasn't existed for 4 years yet.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Bluejayoo

[OddballEasyEight]

Not my fault you spent a page arguing with someone.. So yeah, it was 2 pages downstream from where I was in the thread, so sue me.

 

A page?

try three posts between his answer and yours.

[OddballEasyEight]

You need a minimum of One non caps'd letter per post or it'll make them all lower case, yeh.

 

That's the best thing ever in forum automation

[OddballEasyEight]

Since WOW is being used as a benchmark for SWTOR's release of new content (which is probably flawed, but so be it)...

 

I present the following for all of the posters here that like to talk out of their rear ends rather than check basic facts available through simple searches, here is a list of the level increases and and expansions for both WOW and SWTOR.

 

 

Year Release Level

2004 WOW Release 60

2005 60

2006 60

2007 The Burning Crusade 70

2008 Wrath of the Lich King 80

2009 80

2010 Cataclysm 85

2011 85

2012 Mists of Pandaria 90

2013 90

2014 Warlords of Draenor (?) 100

2015

 

 

Year Release Level

2011 SWTOR Release 50

2012 50

2013 Hutt Cartel 55

2014 GSF 55

 

 

WOW went almost 3 years from its first release until an expansion pack and level increase. SWTOR's first expansion pack came almost twice as fast even though it was only half as high of a level increase. If SWTOR were to release a level increase in the next 6 months, even if it was only 5 levels, it would be right on track as far as WOW's history is concerned. Arguable the content expansions of SWTOR are being released at a faster rate than WOW saw in its first several years. Oddly enough SWTOR and WOW will get player housing on about the same date.

 

It took WOW 3 years to see the release of new races (Burning Crusades) versus a year for SWTOR, though the WOW races were much bigger releases as the new races included cities and other race specific content and SWTOR's race releases were nothing more than additional skins for player characters.

 

WOW took 4 years to add a new classes (Death Knight with WOLK). SWTOR hasn't existed for 4 years yet.

 

Actually, comparing to rift is a much more accurate comparison (due to them being released almost at the same time).

 

Here's from another thread:

Since you posted the patch notes for Rift, I assume you are happy with their progression and development.. Also since Rift is the only game linked that's been around longer than Swtor, and had a similar development cycle.

 

Let's compare (this is just from wikipedia):

Rift in development from 2006 until release in March 2011

Swtor no idea when dev started but announced in 2008, released in December 2011

 

Rift F2P: early 2012

Swtor F2P: November 2012

 

Rift 1st xpac: November 2012 (1 yr, 8 months after launch)

Swtor 1st xpac: April 2013 (1 yr, 5 months after launch)

 

Rift 2nd xpac: announced June 25, 2014, tentative release date: fall 2014 (3 years, 6months+ after launch)

Swtor 2nd xpac: ??? 3 years, 3 months after launch is March 2015, and Rift only announced the 2nd xpac 3 months before it's planned release, which means if Swtor announces anything before the end of the year, they are ahead of Rift's schedule..

 

Looks to me like Swtor is following Rift's development cycle.. coincidence??? probably not, because this is a pretty standardized industry at this point in time.

 

Also, citing Wildstar and GW2 is pointless, neither of those games have been around as long as Swtor, and certainly in the case of Wildstar, are still milking content that was developed before release but lacked polish. That's pretty standard across MMO development.

 

I tend to agree with him.

[Kourage]

Where's it rank in North America. That's the only market that matters.

[Darth_Wicked]

Where's it rank in North America. That's the only market that matters.

 

Sad panda would probably disagree, no?

[Draqsko]

I tend to agree with him.

 

DA ***... I gotta write that one down.. OEE agrees with me for once.

[OddballEasyEight]

Where's it rank in North America. That's the only market that matters.

 

Really?

The entirety of Europe says hello.

[OddballEasyEight]

DA ***... I gotta write that one down.. OEE agrees with me for once.

 

I know... scary innit?

 

I'm not an unreasonable man...

Barely reasonable, but still not unreasonable.

Edited July 20, 2014 by OddballEasyEight

[Draqsko]

A page?

try three posts between his answer and yours.

 

I meant between when I read the posts I quoted and when someone else replied, there's over a page of posts between the napkin maths posts. Yes there's 3 posts between mine and his, but I clicked Quote on yours and the other guy's posts..

 

Oh and if you really want an estimate about CM versus sub revenue, there was a report released earlier this year that stated BW's CM revenue for 2013 was 139M and sub revenue was something like 76M. Now I'm not sure if that was based on a calendar year, let's assume it was and therefore that's the reason for the difference between those numbers and their FY2014 report (the first quarter of 2013, which fell in FY 2012, was heavily driven on both fronts by ROTHC, in both CM and sub revenue). One could assume reasonably that the revenue streams ratio didn't change much therefore.. subs would make up about 35% of that total revenue figure.

 

165M *.35 = 58.3M

58.3M / 180 (yearly sub cost) = 324K aggregate subscribers

 

I use aggregate because that's not really how many individual subs there are. I know alot of people that let their subs lapse while playing other games, or have real life things come up, yet come back and resub once that has passed. I can tell you about several of my guildies that have done this. One was deployed, another is going to be deployed soon, a third went to play ESO because he loves elder scrolls story, but came back once he finished it because he likes swtor's endgame better (PvE and PvP). We all probably know people that subbed, left, and resubbed for whatever reason.

 

So it's not outside of reason to figure 350-400k individual accounts that sub over the course of a year, with 250-300k full time subbers, while another 50-100k sub on and off over the course of a year. The only way we'd know for certain is if EA/BW came right out and told us (which no company would ever do unless it was an astronomical number), and even if they told us, I think half the people on these forums would never believe them unless they're given a list of accounts.. And even then I still think some people would say they're lying to us.

[Lium]

Where's it rank in North America. That's the only market that matters.

 

More money is made in Asia. By like, A LOT. Ask Blizzard. (Hint: There's a reason Lineage and Tera are both ahead of SWTOR on that list.)

[hadoken]

More money is made in Asia. By like, A LOT. Ask Blizzard. (Hint: There's a reason Lineage and Tera are both ahead of SWTOR on that list.)

 

Yup there's no coincidence the number of players for WOW skyrocketed when they expanded into Asia.

[TheNahash]

ugh...who the hell plays Tera?

Edited July 20, 2014 by TheNahash

[Tsillah]

ugh...who the hell plays Tera?

 

Apparently lots of people...I am equally surprised to be honest, but yeah....

[Zoom_VI]

Apparently lots of people...I am equally surprised to be honest, but yeah....

 

Its big in Asia, specifically japan. At least according to google.

 

If you hit it big in Asia, your pretty much set.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Zoom_VI

[jorill]

Its big in Asia, specifically japan. At least according to google.

 

If you hit it big in Asia, your pretty much set.

 

I found this to be the most interesting on the list to be honest. As good as it does in Korea and other asian markets it does as bad over here in the US. I played it for awhile and the combat was fun but to be honest a lot of people there creeped me out and the game was sinking fast. The grinding was insane and there too many exploits so i left plus i wasnt crazy about the art style either

[ivanhedgehog]

They could have 47 subs in total and as long as they keep making hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue every year, no one will care.

 

Well, no one should care. But apparently, people still think that sub numbers count for something.

 

actually, people should care. when you get down to too few subs, you could easily lose enough of them in a 1 month span to cause the cm revenue to flatline. because after all, you have to have enough dedicated(willing to shell out $15 a month on faith) people that will buy your cm reskins. a nice healthy sub population makes devs and execs sleep sounder at night.

[Darth_Wicked]

actually, people should care. when you get down to too few subs, you could easily lose enough of them in a 1 month span to cause the cm revenue to flatline. because after all, you have to have enough dedicated(willing to shell out $15 a month on faith) people that will buy your cm reskins. a nice healthy sub population makes devs and execs sleep sounder at night.

Again, there are those who like to preach that the same people who are F2P or Preferred are the ones dropping all the dough on the Cartel Market, NOT subscribers.

 

Makes sense for them that people who believe this game is not worth a sub are actually the ones doing that.

F2P player: I can do just fine playing dress-up for 100 dollars a month or so but f**k me if I spend an additional 15 bucks on a sub.

Especially when you consider the wonderful restrictions this game imposes on F2P.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Darth_Wicked

[hadoken]

Again, there are those who like to preach that the same people who are F2P or Preferred are the ones dropping all the dough on the Cartel Market, NOT subscribers.

 

Makes sense for them that people who believe this game is not worth a sub are actually the ones doing that.

 

Yea I doubt that's accurate. F2P is just a hook to get people to subscribe. People who have no problem spending money in the CM will have no problem with a monthly fee either. I suspect the majority of the CM sales come from subscribers who are starting alts or further customizing their existing characters.