Developer Update: Introduction to Galactic Strongholds

[LordArtemis]

In free form you can place a table then put a lamp on that table. With hooks you can place the table or the lamp.

 

Well, to be fair we do not know that yet. We can assume it will be like most hook systems, but I personally think we need to recognize that they are assumptions and withhold final judgement until we actually try it out.

 

I was disappointed in the lack of free placement as well, but will give it a try when I get a chance. Whether or not I like it will determine if I remain a player.

 

I for one hope this is a very popular addition for players. Even if I find it disappointing.

 

An update....

 

Will furnitures have hooks? No they don’t have hooks but some hooks overlap so you can potentially put a rug under a table since they are different overlapping hooks. This type of decoration on top of decoration is only possible for rugs.

 

So it looks like this one concern might be valid.

Edited July 2, 2014 by LordArtemis

[Aieranda]

Will there be an option to reset a room to the default, obviously plastered with relevant warnings that would accompany such an action?

 

Will there be a short list of preset layouts for an entire room based on a theme, possibly available as a decoration "set" to assure you have all the pieces it takes to make the room?

[Magrietha]

Having played SWG and LOTRO, I have to say that I am EXTREMELY disappointed with the decision to use hooks, even if they are more advanced than LOTRO's. I spent far more time trying (and mostly failing) to work around the hook system in LOTRO than I ever did with the admittedly cludgy coordinate system in SWG. Even City of Hero's limited system offered more freedom than this appears to allow.

 

I'm one more vote for being able to turn off the hooks. Leave it as an option for those who want simple or directed placement but let those of us who want to get our hands dirty be free to make our houses as we wish. My smuggler certainly wouldn't have a stronghold worthy of Better Homes and Galaxies.

 

It's a space we pay for with our real or in-game currency, let us make it ugly if we want; even the 'free' one requires at least a month of subscription, so there's still money involved indirectly. This is somewhat like giving your landlord a say in how you arrange furniture in your rental. As long as one don't damage his property, he really has no right to complain about an ugly couch.

 

Bioware, if you're concerned about someone making something obscene or rude with free placement (and I'm sure several will try) just put a disclaimer on the stronghold loading screen that you're not responsible for user created content any more than you're responsible for the stuff spewed on DK or either fleet. A player enters someone else's domain at their own risk... Just like in real life.

[Aieranda]

I definitely would like to see the ability to set a color palette and texture, bare minimum, on most of the static parts (the unhooked parts) of a zone, either per stronghold or per room. That way, for instance, every Nar Shaddaa is not the same brown walls behind/between all the wall decorations. I'm not saying I want to manipulate the building layouts or have full level-design capability, but making the overall design more sleek looking through color and texture, or more cave like through color and texture, would be nice without going too far overboard.

[Deewe]

Why am I not surprised you guys once again shoot yourselves in the foot?

 

Hooks, whatever you added to them are just hooks and kills the fun from furnishing the houses in the long term.

 

We can already predict your system will end as LotRo's one: a waste of $$$.

 

What you should have done and would have been better than any other games around is:

 

• Implement the hook system you designed
  
• Add an advanced free placement mode
  

 

 

BTW for now your system is in dire need of:

 

1. Free item placement along x, y, z axis
   
2. Roll left/right item
   
3. Scale up/down
   

 

 

And having to unlock as many items as we want to set down: lame.

 

In short SWTOR housing is really bad especially compared to Rift and Wildstar.

For the note even the MMO that was released 11 years ago had a better housing system

Edited July 3, 2014 by Deewe

[LordArtemis]

Just wanted to post this here, as a few folks have asked me about this (not sure why folks would direct questions to me, there are other folks that are far better informed on this feature)...

 

Just for clarity, this is what was actually said during the prior Q&A...notice how they did NOT say there would not be hooks.....

 

My question: As a huge gigantic fan of housing in all games (I love the sims don’t judge) I am the most worried I’ve ever been about this particular expansion as I really want it to be good. I think it was at the last cantina someone (I think Jack Wood correct me if I’m wrong) alluded to it being NOT like lotro which is regarding as being one the worst housing systems in mmo. anything you can say to ease my mind?

 

Eric- The problem with saying anything right now is honestly it is really kind of hard to explain the system to you right here right now, I will say though it is nothing like any system in any other mmo out there right now… It is completely different and new, It will really only make sense when you can see it in action. All I can right now is as a huge fan of housing in games myself I promise you as a fan of housing you will not be disappointed in how ours works. we have put a lot of thought into making it more customizable (not to disparage other games)

 

I take cause with the "completely different and new". I can't see how they could say that what they have in place....traditional hooks with the ability to change large hooks for small ones is "completely different and new".

 

It is different, perhaps a unique slant on a traditional system, but hardly "completely different and new".

 

Source

 

I would have to say I am disappointed in you Mr Musco. You obviously blew smoke IMO. If you are a "big fan of housing" you must be aware that folks generally do not care for hooks.....any amount of time spent in forums for those games that have housing with hooks should have demonstrated that IMO.

 

It is obvious to me that the person that posted the question clearly indicated that they had a concern that this system would be like LotROs system, which they indicated was considered one of the worst in modern MMOs. Your response was direct....obviously you intended to respond directly. However, to me it seems your response was obviously and intentionally misleading.

 

This is exactly how hopes get dashed, and expectations end up far beyond what was possible. Fluff like your response.

 

I would add that, IMO, if you can place a table on a wall I would give Mr Musco a pass on this. Then one could say this is rather open for a hook system. If not, it was bull IMO.

 

It remains to be seen.

[Deewe]

I would have to say I am disappointed in you Mr Musco. You obviously blew smoke IMO. If you are a "big fan of housing" you must be aware that folks generally do not care for hooks.....any amount of time spent in forums for those games that have housing with hooks should have demonstrated that IMO.

He didn't lie but he did not told the truth either but it's certain he knew he was misleading people.

 

He was just trying to keep people subbed.

[Zan_Lynx]

Too much negativity in this thread. I'll say something positive. I think it looks like a good system.

 

I like hooks. Wall things go on walls. Floor things go on floors.

 

Chairs are for sitting in, not for scaling up 400% and putting on the ceiling. So, good job!

[LordArtemis]

He didn't lie but he did not told the truth either but it's certain he knew he was misleading people.

 

He was just trying to keep people subbed.

 

....and in all fairness he may have been accurate at the time, or simply did not know they were going with a system that, IMO, is very similar to LotRO and other hook games (though this system has a few unique slants to it).

 

I guess the question will be, for those that do not care for the restrictive nature of hooks....does this system have enough options to satisfy.

 

I for one hope it does.

[gburnash]

I have some mixed feelings, mostly positive, but a couple negatives as well.

 

Negative- as many others, the hooks.

Positive- I appreciate how many hooks there are, and how flexible they are. There are a lot of options, variety, and flexibility with them, and they cover just about all the space. That I appreciate. If you have to do hooks, then I like what they've done.

 

But at the same time, I'll miss some of the creativity that comes with free form placement. I remember the days in UO where people would use bandages, reagents, and cloth and create fountains and pools out of them. Suits of armor and artwork on the walls. Murder mysteries from the items placed creatively around the house. All sorts of things that didn't exist in the game but that players found ways to create through their imaginations and creatively placing and moving things.

 

But I understand why they didn't do that. If we've got to have hooks, I appreciate how they've put them in so at least there is as much flexibility and options as possible with it.

 

One thing I don't understand is why there isn't option to paint or wall paper walls, floors, etc. What was the comment from the dev? "Why change the colors? they are great the way they are." Maybe because not everyone wants walls that are shades of brown? Maybe people like to change colors for the seasons or special occaisions? Maybe for some variety and personality?

 

But that does touch on one of my beefs with the game- is the lack of color/ dye options, for outfits, armor, and now for our homes. I don't understand why colors and dyes aren't made easier to get, easier to pick out what you'd like, and why there wasn't any thought that people might want to put some color and variety into their stronghold with the walls, floors, etc.

 

Other than those, though, I'm excited about what I see. I love the options for pets, vehicles, garages, decorations, the number of rooms, and variety of decorations and furnishings, etc. It's obvious that there has been a lot of time and effort put into this and I'm really looking forward to it. Hopefully we'll see some progress on the other points (though I'll bet hooks are here to stay), but overall pretty good.

[LordArtemis]

I have some mixed feelings, mostly positive, but a couple negatives as well.

 

Negative- as many others, the hooks.

Positive- I appreciate how many hooks there are, and how flexible they are. There are a lot of options, variety, and flexibility with them, and they cover just about all the space. That I appreciate. If you have to do hooks, then I like what they've done.

 

But at the same time, I'll miss some of the creativity that comes with free form placement. I remember the days in UO where people would use bandages, reagents, and cloth and create fountains and pools out of them. Suits of armor and artwork on the walls. Murder mysteries from the items placed creatively around the house. All sorts of things that didn't exist in the game but that players found ways to create through their imaginations and creatively placing and moving things.

 

But I understand why they didn't do that. If we've got to have hooks, I appreciate how they've put them in so at least there is as much flexibility and options as possible with it.

 

One thing I don't understand is why there isn't option to paint or wall paper walls, floors, etc. What was the comment from the dev? "Why change the colors? they are great the way they are." Maybe because not everyone wants walls that are shades of brown? Maybe people like to change colors for the seasons or special occaisions? Maybe for some variety and personality?

 

But that does touch on one of my beefs with the game- is the lack of color/ dye options, for outfits, armor, and now for our homes. I don't understand why colors and dyes aren't made easier to get, easier to pick out what you'd like, and why there wasn't any thought that people might want to put some color and variety into their stronghold with the walls, floors, etc.

 

Other than those, though, I'm excited about what I see. I love the options for pets, vehicles, garages, decorations, the number of rooms, and variety of decorations and furnishings, etc. It's obvious that there has been a lot of time and effort put into this and I'm really looking forward to it. Hopefully we'll see some progress on the other points (though I'll bet hooks are here to stay), but overall pretty good.

 

It is my hope that this....and better opinions of the system....proves to be the prevalent opinion with respect to this feature.

[MadHobbit]

well I remember the bases in city of heroes, that was a free place system. the "base builders" went a bit crazy and put so much stuff into the bases ,they would crash them, they would put somewhere between 10000 and 12000 items inthe base it would crash and lockup. The COH devs never thought anyone would put that many items in the base. So I can see a it of the need for controlling the number of items in the stronghold. one thing I am curious , with COH we had to pay a monthly "rent" on the base ,depending onthe size and such. I wonder if strongholds would be the same?

 

as for the bonus of presence with strongholds I wonder if there will be a cap on the amount of presence, with what you get for humans and all the companions, certain companions become almost unstoppable at the lower lvls. Now to add even more?

 

well i will hold back judgement until I see the live strongholds, If like other things in the game ,I don't care for , I will just skip it as well.

[Styxx]

I take cause with the "completely different and new". I can't see how they could say that what they have in place....traditional hooks with the ability to change large hooks for small ones is "completely different and new".

 

It is different, perhaps a unique slant on a traditional system, but hardly "completely different and new"

 

http://i.imgur.com/kET1L.jpg

 

They have had a long history of "completely different and new" - a proud tradition since 2011.

 

Legacy Storage is Cartel Market -or- Crafter.

 

Anyone else here worried that they'll pull the same garbage they pulled with the G7 ship components? You can get them for a brazillion Cartel Coins now, or you can wait 7 weeks until crafters have done enough of an artificially limited quest line and made enough of an artificially limited material to make them...

OF COURSE. Otherwise, what other reason is there to add housing, which is just a glorified bigger ship? We already HAD houses, even if smaller ones. But now we need a cash sink - IRL cash sink.

 

Past the 5 minutes of amazement when it`ll launch, everybody will realize it isn`t bringing anything new - just a more secluded "Fleet", or a "bigger ship" - no gameplay added whastoever, just a giant hole to sink your cash into.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Styxx

[SettGirkkurn]

And the main question about the chairs, that you have to unlock 4 times if you want 4 chairs of the same type is:

 

WILL YOU BE ABLE TO SIT ON THEM?

 

Apart from RP value, which is great thb, only thing I will do is place free decorations from achievements (if any), zoom out, say "Ahhhh...", lock the doors and never come back.

I suspect that legacy storage will not be able to store numerous implants that I have no use but to RE them on OTHER toons, or schematics that are bound to character for God knows what reason, so to me this expac is useless...

 

Good effort anyway Bioware, since I bet lots of people will appreciate SIMS implemented into SWTOR, for that special wawawoom element...

[LordArtemis]

According to information gleaned from the video, at least in one case, he had to use a sit emote to look like he was sitting on a chair.

 

One could assume that would mean there is no direct interaction with house objects, except perhaps terminals.

[IInox]

people will never be happy

[Drudenfusz]

well I remember the bases in city of heroes, that was a free place system. the "base builders" went a bit crazy and put so much stuff into the bases ,they would crash them, they would put somewhere between 10000 and 12000 items inthe base it would crash and lockup. The COH devs never thought anyone would put that many items in the base. So I can see a it of the need for controlling the number of items in the stronghold. one thing I am curious , with COH we had to pay a monthly "rent" on the base ,depending onthe size and such. I wonder if strongholds would be the same?

BioWare said there will be no rent.

 

as for the bonus of presence with strongholds I wonder if there will be a cap on the amount of presence, with what you get for humans and all the companions, certain companions become almost unstoppable at the lower lvls. Now to add even more?

Housing brings prestige, not presence! It is a new mechanic and will not boost your companions.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Drudenfusz

[Vorokoth]

I wonder if my Sith Sorceress can set up a torture chamber?

[Styxx]

people will never be happy

 

At this particular time, with the current "new content" timings - REAL new content, not armors from packs - I do think housing is useless, as it brings nothing new from a gameplay point of view. Sure - RP Heaven, lots of eye candy, but, ultimately, useless from the "how many hours of new gameplay will I get out of this" perspective.

[Mavin]

I completly agree. Im not surprised though, BW isn't exactly famous for wanting their players to have any kind of freedom of choice in this game. How i miss SWG...

 

I concur... It is better than no housing but not comparable on any level to SWG.

[SettGirkkurn]

people will never be happy

 

I have asked valid question. Will you be able to right click on chair and choose "Recline" from menu without using stupid emotes?

If not, explain the point of chairs then?

Hey lets RP council meeting... We have chairs and all, but we will RP that we are sitting.

Even SecondLife has ability to store animation file inside object so that you dont have to use Animation Override to actually sit on it. I know different engine and purpose, but still I find it very stupid to have chair in your inventory and pull it for 15 seconds of sitting time.

Rest of my post is 2 cents from my point of view where I have said that RP value is amazing, but so it was with current state of the game as its HUGE with various locations to roleplay...

[BrianAC]

So, will these strongholds be in the same area for everyone? or will they be scattered across the planet. I really hope they are not in the same area, like everyone has to go to the same exact location to get to the stronghold...

[PavSalco]

I thought a housing system wasn't my cup of tea until yesterday. Although I don't have a comparison to other housing systems as SWTOR is my second MMORPG ever played, but what I have seen so far gives me high hopes. Nonetheless, I'm disappointed that our companions don't move around the house and we can't place our other characters. My Sith Warrior would love to meet his adopted daughter

 

I also expected to see mannequins on which I could put my old armor on. This raises the question: can we put multiple copies of our companions in the house? Like three Quinns that could function as mannequins that each of them can wear a different type of armor? At least that would provide some usefulness for having companions there.

 

Keep up the good work and keep improving this expansion

Edited July 3, 2014 by PavSalco

[idnewton]

Coming from a developer point of view there isn't a better way to do this. Free placement is a sloppy alternative to making a solid hooks system. With to switch between multiple hook patterns for the same area, player creativity is still given free reign without the annoying hassle of unaligned and slightly-off-rotated scenery.

 

Some people complain just for the sake of complaining. Don't forget that.

Edited July 3, 2014 by idnewton

[Twin]

At this particular time, with the current "new content" timings - REAL new content, not armors from packs - I do think housing is useless, as it brings nothing new from a gameplay point of view. Sure - RP Heaven, lots of eye candy, but, ultimately, useless from the "how many hours of new gameplay will I get out of this" perspective.

 

It's really not "RP heaven" either. It's absolutly nothing in the name of content. RP heaven would be the freedom to actually decorate your very own theme in a house, like someone mentioned earlier a "Murder Mystery" for example. This doesn't even provide content for any particular time when it comes to actual decorating.

 

people will never be happy

 

I would be happy if this feature was something that actually provided a true deco-system that i could spend my online time on to make it "perfect" and uniqe. Just wait and see how all these houses will look pretty much the same in both deco-layout and items on display.

 

I concur... It is better than no housing but not comparable on any level to SWG.

 

Imo no, it's actually not better then no housing at all. There are many things i'd rather have them spend time on instead of enabling me to stand in a generic house with decorations on spots BW says it's estethically Ok.

 

well I remember the bases in city of heroes, that was a free place system. the "base builders" went a bit crazy and put so much stuff into the bases ,they would crash them, they would put somewhere between 10000 and 12000 items inthe base it would crash and lockup. The COH devs never thought anyone would put that many items in the base. So I can see a it of the need for controlling the number of items in the stronghold. one thing I am curious , with COH we had to pay a monthly "rent" on the base ,depending onthe size and such. I wonder if strongholds would be the same?

 

as for the bonus of presence with strongholds I wonder if there will be a cap on the amount of presence, with what you get for humans and all the companions, certain companions become almost unstoppable at the lower lvls. Now to add even more?

 

well i will hold back judgement until I see the live strongholds, If like other things in the game ,I don't care for , I will just skip it as well.

 

Easily solved by having a upper limit of items per house/room - which then could be extended by unlocking storage via the CM/PvE/PvP.