Given Bioware's horrid communication, releases, and overhyping, I wish theyd refocus.

[Sangrar]

I don't understand you white knights (actually, I'm not even sure you qualify) with how constructive criticism and improvements becomes some doomsday prophecy...anyway I digress.

 

because there is a difference between constructive criticism and just going "fu the games going to shut down in a year" and "you idiots can all go to Wildstar with us when this game shuts down you white knight noobs". Its not Criticism we oppose, its the insults and non-constructive and patronizing crap. Basically, some people (not all, just a few certain people) post a bunch of disputable arguments on the forums, and when people do a counterargument, it suddenly becomes how the "white knights" have no "common sense", like for example, this one guy starts putting random posts saying the CM is Pay to Win, I tell this one poster CM is not pay to win because how is armor shells and mounts pay to win, and then he goes to everyone, calls me a blind defender, and that we have no common sense in reply instead of giving us a decent answer.

[TravelersWay]

The rate at which things are going is horrible. <snip>

 

I can in here expecting to berate your post and call you and idiot. However, upon reading what you posted, I can't say anything really negative about your post overall. Great ideas and well put together. We approve!

[Sangrar]

You're in the minority though. He's right.

 

oh look, a poll on future content that appeared here on the forums. Oh would you look at that, CLASS STORY WON BY AN OVERWHELMING MAJORITY.

 

 

so yeah, you might want to rethink your whole "minority" notion.

[RakghoulsRTrolls]

proof? any sources? statistics? facts?

because there happens to be a poll that was taken of what future content players wanted to see most. Oh and look at that, CLASS STORY WON.

 

but hey, pvp was a close 4th place... (except class story, class story still beat it by a lot)

LOL that poll is so unreliable it's not even funny. The same person can vote for FIVE options.

 

BTW the main reason class story one is because a majority of the voters picked it. Obviously but those players are pretty much the only players left playing this dying MMO. All of the MMO'ers left en masse during 2012 and 2013.

 

He is still in the minority otherwise and that poll doesn't prove anything whatsoever. So care to explain how SWTOR bled over 2 million subscribers?

Edited June 30, 2014 by RakghoulsRTrolls

[tanerb]

I agree communication is horrid, but there is no overhyping. There is not even hyping. I think they already gave up. Sure, not enough resources to produce content. Probably not enough revenue to support a targeted margin for the game hence the lack of investment. I think people are overrating the CM revenue. EA announced a number last year but in this year's call Swtor was not even mentioned and there was no discussion of F2P revenue as well. My guess is, it came down from last year, as is the sub number.

[OddballEasyEight]

LOL that poll is so unreliable it's not even funny. The same person can vote for FIVE options.

 

BTW the main reason class story one is because a majority of the voters picked it. Obviously but those players are pretty much the only players left playing this dying MMO. All of the MMO'ers left en masse during 2012 and 2013.

 

And yet PvP'ers still swear by it to prove that "the PvP playerbase is huge"

[Sangrar]

LOL that poll is so unreliable it's not even funny. The same person can vote for FIVE options.

 

BTW the main reason class story one is because a majority of the voters picked it. Obviously but those players are pretty much the only players left playing this dying MMO. All of the MMO'ers left en masse during 2012 and 2013.

 

He is still in the minority otherwise and that poll doesn't prove anything whatsoever. So care to explain how SWTOR bled over 2 million subscribers?

 

oh, because you can only play one piece of content and you can't go play multiple types of content in an mmo you pay money to?

 

also, what you say about the poll, is that fact, or speculation hmmmm? You can't prove any of us is less of mmoers than the people who left can you?

 

2 million subscribers YEARS AGO. Come up with some more recent statistics AND A SOURCE and them come back to me when your ready

Edited June 30, 2014 by Sangrar

[Aries_cz]

Most of the issue lies in the fact that BioWare/EA thought SW + V.O. story would compensate for releasing a fair and unevenly polished MMO, with less features and lower performance than games that launched over 5 years ago.

Lot of MMOs launched without all the features Wow stole from all over the market, and they were fine.

What was the main feature that was missing? Group finder. Otherwise, the game had almost every major feature a MMO neeeds.

Yes, the end game content was a bit lacking, but that is probably because BW horribly miscalculated how much time will people put in the game. As for PvP content, that got broken because people are tards and cheated the system by kill-trading.

[ImmortalLowlife]

This wasn't a failure of the customer. It was a failure of EA/BW to understand their market. Even now I don't play this game like an MMO, and I like MMOs. I also like story-driven RPGs, which is what this game really is. As you say, most MMO fans do not want a story-driven RPG, especially at the expense of a) game performance (the engine is still awful), b) multiplayer experience, and c) end game content. EA/BW did not understand their market, and they failed to listen to concerns that were brought to their attention by beta testers. This game offers the greatest single player experience of any MMO I have ever played, and I fully expect it to remain a great single player game. It's too bad they didn't make this KOTOR 3 with a multiplayer option. They would have made solid money and could have sold the flashpoints and operations as expansion DLCs. And the game's reputation would be in much better shape because it would not be pretending to be what is not.

 

I've always thought the same thing about this game. It also explains why I haven't been able to get into any other MMO's I've tried since I started playing swtor (which was my 1st MMO btw). It's because I enjoy the game mainly as a single player RPG. They should have made this a single player RPG console/PC game with multiplayer aspects & DLC imo

[LordArtemis]

It is pretty widely accepted web wide that those that play and enjoy this game would likely desire an extension to the storylines. Naturally there is no direct incontrovertible proof, but one could probably safely assume that is the case.

 

I think it's reasonably silly to assume otherwise.

[RakghoulsRTrolls]

And yet PvP'ers still swear by it to prove that "the PvP playerbase is huge"

At least we don't settle for mediocrity.

 

oh, because you can only play one piece of content and you can't go play multiple types of content in an mmo you pay money to?

 

 

2 million subscribers YEARS AGO. Come up with some more recent statistics AND A SOURCE and them come back to me when your ready

The fact that you require I cite this means you're very new to this game.

• 2+ million boxes sold (~1.7mil subs).
  
• UNDER 500k subs.
  
• Assuming subs stabilized from the last report of ~500k subs after it was last reported, subscriptions FELL 16%. Reported in Q2 FY2014 (October 29, 2013).

 

And some of you people have the audacity to say this game isn't dying. Give me a break.

Edited June 30, 2014 by RakghoulsRTrolls

[AlienEyeTX]

BTW the main reason class story one is because a majority of the voters picked it.

 

Wut?

 

Yeah, that's pretty much how polls and voting work.

 

Why is it so hard for you to believe that people like and want more of the story? Get your head out of Uranus.

[RakghoulsRTrolls]

Wut?

 

Yeah, that's pretty much how polls and voting work.

 

Why is it so hard for you to believe that people like and want more of the story? Get your head out of Uranus.

Read the rest of my point. As I and others have stated you guys are the minority in the MMO community and it will always be that way.

Edited June 30, 2014 by RakghoulsRTrolls

[Sangrar]

At least we don't settle for mediocrity.

 

 

The fact that you require I cite this means you're very new to this game.

• 2+ million boxes sold (~1.7mil subs).
  
• UNDER 500k subs.
  
• Assuming subs stabilized from the last report of ~500k subs after it was last reported, subscriptions FELL 16%. Reported in Q2 FY2014 (October 29, 2013).

 

And some of you people have the audacity to say this game isn't dying. Give me a break.

 

my point was that there was a good majority of people who wanted more class story.

 

I just wanted you to provide recent statistics instead of the old old ones.

 

Also, do your numbers include the various active F2P and preferred players? I happen to know many preferred players in this game, some of which are way better pvpers than some of this games subs.

 

and this game is dying. but then again, so are you, and so am I, technically.

Edited June 30, 2014 by Sangrar

[LordArtemis]

The game already died. Dead and buried. The prior dev team saw to that.

 

It was resurrected by the current dev team IMO....though it is probably limping along (I feel it has missed some opportunities to draw in new crowds due to a few poor choices with respect to new content, and that perhaps it has not quite found itself yet) I believe it is showing signs that the future is not as bleak as it was.

 

I believe there is good and bad here....but I also believe it is absolute lunacy to try and claim that things were better in the past under the old dev team....IMO they were worse in almost every fashion EXCEPT the state of some of the combat animations, which were chopped to pieces here and there for the sake of PVP from my perspective.

 

I feel pretty good about where the game is at the moment. I do not feel good, however, about GSF. That was a massive blunder IMO....one that the game laments.

[Akheria]

because there is a difference between constructive criticism and just going "fu the games going to shut down in a year" and "you idiots can all go to Wildstar with us when this game shuts down you white knight noobs". Its not Criticism we oppose, its the insults and non-constructive and patronizing crap. Basically, some people (not all, just a few certain people) post a bunch of disputable arguments on the forums, and when people do a counterargument, it suddenly becomes how the "white knights" have no "common sense", like for example, this one guy starts putting random posts saying the CM is Pay to Win, I tell this one poster CM is not pay to win because how is armor shells and mounts pay to win, and then he goes to everyone, calls me a blind defender, and that we have no common sense in reply instead of giving us a decent answer.

 

No no, I definitely agree that going the latter is being stupid.I do respect some of you posters, at least I think you believe in what you say. In the context of this article however, I feel ZH has given a viable, achievable suggestion if the dev's at EA are willing to fork more money and invest fully to make this game more. As has been noted before, the switch to F2P has generated huge income for this game, more than a sub model ever could (that's for another discussion though). The problem most of us have is that we feel, based only on our past and current knowledge (communication is something the dev's need to improve on defs) is that we're not seeing this money being funneled back into the game for reasons stated before and in many threads. I guess sometimes it can be easy to smudge the line between healthy criticism and full on well, you know, but most of us are also pretty passionate about the game and seeing it performing poorly (opinion) is saddening. Anyway, hope I don't sound condescending/patronising etc, just hoping to have a healthy discussion here.

[AlienEyeTX]

Read the rest of my point. As I and others have stated you guys are the minority in the MMO community and it will always be that way.

 

Are we concerned with the MMO community or are we concerned with this game? Personally, I don't give a hoot what else is going on in "the community." I want this game to be the best it can be. I want this game to do more of what it's good at.

 

If this isn't for you, fine. There are other options, that may be more to your liking. I'm not advocating that you leave. I'm just pointing out that there are many different options that will appeal to many different peoples' varied tastes.

[Sangrar]

Read the rest of my point. As I and others have stated you guys are the minority in the MMO community and it will always be that way.

 

no. The poll indicates otherwise, and its the only source towards that end of what people want most for future content.

 

Please accept that class story won BY A LANDSLIDE and move on.

 

by the way, the trick of making yourself look bigger to scare away the big bad bear does not always work just fyi.

 

do you have any statistics or sources to say that we are the "minority"? or is that speculation I sense

 

I already provided a source, the only source regarding this matter. I am sure you would jump on it and spread it everywhere if it said people wanted pvp more than anything. But no, class story, that is the main thing this game has over other mmo's, and you might as well accept that.

[Arkerus]

At least we don't settle for mediocrity.

 

 

The fact that you require I cite this means you're very new to this game.

• 2+ million boxes sold (~1.7mil subs).
  
• UNDER 500k subs.
  
• Assuming subs stabilized from the last report of ~500k subs after it was last reported, subscriptions FELL 16%. Reported in Q2 FY2014 (October 29, 2013).

 

And some of you people have the audacity to say this game isn't dying. Give me a break.

 

People are STILL posting the low attachment rate from launch as if it has any bearing on TODAY?

 

I mean, I know this is the forums but c'mon people try and stay relevant.

 

And as been stated as the last time we heard anything about the SUB numbers (subs fell but revenue actually climbed due to people spending MORE money on the game, not less.) In today's business business hybrid models rely on money, not subs, to make a profit. If you are still stuck in the "subs are the only way to go business model" then perhaps you could get a time machine and catch up with the rest of us.

 

The reality is also that as time goes one (real life, remember that), people will leave eventually. But as with all products, you try and hold a steady population as long as possible before accepting the decline phase (which is where WoW is now). This is the natural product life cycle.

Edited June 30, 2014 by Arkerus

[Deewe]

BTW the main reason class story one is because a majority of the voters picked it. Obviously but those players are pretty much the only players left playing this dying MMO.

Quite so.

 

 

I agree communication is horrid, but there is no overhyping. There is not even hyping. I think they already gave up. Sure, not enough resources to produce content. Probably not enough revenue to support a targeted margin for the game hence the lack of investment. I think people are overrating the CM revenue. EA announced a number last year but in this year's call Swtor was not even mentioned and there was no discussion of F2P revenue as well. My guess is, it came down from last year, as is the sub number.

Most probably considering the upcoming open world SW game in the making @EA.

[AlienEyeTX]

People are STILL posting the low attachment rate from launch as if it has any bearing on TODAY?

 

I mean, I know this is the forums but c'mon people try and stay relevant.

 

Preach.

[LordArtemis]

Actually I believe that last report indicated subs had fallen again. I posted all the official info I could find, I can try and find it again if needed.

 

However, it was reported that free to play had grown.

[Sarfux]

I am seeing a lot of doom and gloom in this thread. Lately there has been a lot of losing hope or people talking negative about the game. Just be patient and know they can't please everybody. Soon something will be released with information about it. I'm optimistic about the future of the game. Why? Because there is absolutely nothing that shows me that they abandoned anything or stopped working on anything etc. It does seem there is a little dry spell with the communication right now for some reason, which is odd even to me but that just means they are being secretive about...something they don't want to get out. Because you know how that goes, people rush to exaggerations then blow it out of proportion then whine and complain.

 

Just relax guys. The content is coming I can assure you. Just need to have patience. Is it me? Or are a lot of gamers impatient these days? Where 2 weeks feels like a month and a month feels like 3 months. I do understand why you would be disappointed in not having a clear path shown to you on where a thing you are enjoying is headed. That is completely understandable. But you must realize also that you have to have patience for the content to come out.

 

Trust me, when the content comes out and you hear the information on what's coming up you will probably not be so gloomy still. Or perhaps you will be All I know is. Don't lose hope, nothing is going seriously wrong at all, the game isn't losing money, shutting down, people getting fired, etc they are just working very hard on things.

 

Also, please stop bringing up launch numbers. Those are not needed/affected anymore and are irrelevant to the game as of now. I know you who do that are trying to make a point TOR "failed" but that's not how it works sorry.

Edited June 30, 2014 by Sarfux

[TUXs]

The rate at which things are going is horrible. We first got GSF and now upcoming getting GSH as some lame 3 month release "event" where they sell us on "Subscribers get it first!" where what they really are saying is "We're behind schedule and are trying not to look stupid, so we'll release half of the stuff first to subs, and then to everyone else when we're actually done, and play it off like we meant to do that!"

This whole Subs First thing is quite ridiculous to me too. It's obviously an attempt to string out updates and mask their inability to meet their own stated content/update goals that they've promised over and over since launch, but never delivered on.

[tanerb]

 

 

Most probably considering the upcoming open world SW game in the making @EA.

 

Is there such a game? any link?