Learn to Fly

[Asuradipel]

I was pondering where I heard that phrase before. It was the Low Sec People in Eve Online.

 

Now I know I am not a good pilot and my Scout is not even 1/4 fitted. I have no problem with being defeated in a Match 25-45. Just because they were better and we tried our best.

 

But if there is a match were you see already a very big group of people you know that are good, or just a bunch of Scout/Strike on your side while nearly all the others have 4 ships+ you know how it will end. 8-50 will be merciful. Tactics will also include figuring out the "farming-victims". It is not so that everyone goes for the Red Baron like in the other thread. There can be hunter wings that identify weak players and then kill them as soon as they spawn, again and again. Because it is easy to kill them, for the points. Then there is the death boxes where greener players are lured into a trap and then obliterated by gunship bomber rows and herded by scout and strike flanks. Or you wrestle yourself from the plane and go for a gunship. Funny enough there is always a few team members there ready to help their mate while you only see in chat that your gunship captain got blown up for the x.th time. One might think they have a TS/mumble channel. And then there is of course the Bomber Domination and as you need Fleet Req or Cartel to even get a Bomber you are out of the "Boys Club" immediately.

 

Which of course is all well and fine but misses one aspect for me. Playing.

 

Playing I do to have fun. To go into a match where I know that I am going to get beaten up to a bloody pulp is not really fun for me.

 

And then comes "learn to fly" or nicer "yes, it is a steep learning curve". All of course minted to tell you that if you try harder you will have fun. Which is a lie in these "learn to fly" setups.

 

As you loose match after match with maybe 400 Points earned the "cracks" on the other side get multiple times your points. So not even do you have trouble because they are/might be better skilled, but also you PROVIDE them with the Points so they WILL be better equipped. Which is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

In the battle against Skill and Equipment survival is highly unlikely.

 

The fortunate thing is, there seems to be mainly groups or time slots of these People. At least on The Red Eclipse. So I join GSF and as soon as I realize it is one of these "learn to fly" phases I quit and wont queue again for at least 1 hour. It is after all only a Minigame, even so I like it very much.

 

And there is nothing bad about quiting before or during the match. It is bad to stay, because the Reward System will actually make these People even stronger.

 

I hope I will see more often people thinking and evaluation the odds and quiting before they feed these "learn to fly" people. As mentioned before, I accept defeat and try to learn. But I don't have to accept slaughter and paying for the butchers knives myself.

[Cekis]

Wait... you "hope" people will quit?!? Just to make it difficult for those "learn to fly" people to get more req? Your logic is flawed.

 

You don't get better by quitting. You don't get a better ship by quitting. You don't get a bomber, by quitting.

 

So much you have wrong here. Good pilots don't "farm"... instead, they look for the challenge and chase it. If the challenge is not there, those pilots likely fall back and switch to a lesser ship - for the req and so they get better. Note, I said "good" pilots here.

 

When you can change your attitude toward GSF, you will allow yourself to get better. Do yourself a favor and stay in those games... stop treating it as making others better, but instead, making yourself better.

[Asuradipel]

Wait... you "hope" people will quit?!? Just to make it difficult for those "learn to fly" people to get more req? Your logic is flawed.

 

It is simple: noob gets for example 400 Req, crack gets for example 800 Req. Who gets the next Tier earlier and will have an Equipment Advantage added to his Skill advantage?

 

No, you don't get better XYZ by quitting. But I don't have to provide the meat to feed my butcher.

 

So much you have wrong here. Good pilots don't "farm"... instead, they look for the challenge and chase it.

 

winning 5-50 is a challenge? I really must have problems with my perception of reality.

 

When you can change your attitude toward GSF, you will allow yourself to get better. Do yourself a favor and stay in those games... stop treating it as making others better, but instead, making yourself better.

 

does challenging a 50 Level Mara with a 40 Level Sorc make sense? You can only get "better" by playing it. On skill and on equipment level. Both. I am not saying not to play, or to quit immediately if I loose.

 

I am talking about a very specific setup that occurs on a regular basis. Well organized groups of cracks with excellent ships camping in the queue and obliterating any opposition.

[General_Brass]

Wait... you "hope" people will quit?!? Just to make it difficult for those "learn to fly" people to get more req? Your logic is flawed.

 

You don't get better by quitting. You don't get a better ship by quitting. You don't get a bomber, by quitting.

 

So much you have wrong here. Good pilots don't "farm"... instead, they look for the challenge and chase it. If the challenge is not there, those pilots likely fall back and switch to a lesser ship - for the req and so they get better. Note, I said "good" pilots here.

 

When you can change your attitude toward GSF, you will allow yourself to get better. Do yourself a favor and stay in those games... stop treating it as making others better, but instead, making yourself better.

 

 

Well I have seen plenty of "Good Pilots" Mine spawn points and if that isn't farming I don't know what is.

[DresG]

And then comes "learn to fly" or nicer "yes, it is a steep learning curve". All of course minted to tell you that if you try harder you will have fun. Which is a lie in these "learn to fly" setups.

 

My k/d ratios for Imp side used to be on the negative side, literally, there was a blank space where the number indicating my k/d was supposed to be, right now its getting near a respetable 4. It is not a lie, you die a lot at first, then you learn and stop dying or, at the very least, die less than what you used to.

 

There is no such thing as "boys club", and if there was one it would not include bombers hiding in the corner of a satellite.

 

Less QQ more PewPewPew.

[Sidenti]

And there is nothing bad about quiting before or during the match. It is bad to stay, because the Reward System will actually make these People even stronger.

 

I was largely with you until I saw this.

 

There's a pilot on the Ebon Hawk - Imperial side - who could walk up to me right now, cough a huge loog in my face, and I'd still respect him for his tenacity and commitment.

 

I watched Fiveoffive spawn in for what had to be one of his very first battles a long, long time ago (in a galaxy far, far away no less!). He was TERRIBLE. His whole team was. But while the rest of his team kept giving up in the face of a roflstomp, he stayed in.

 

He KEPT staying in. Roflstomp after roflstomp. Death after death. NEVER said a ill word to anyone. Just flew.

 

He's a load to bring down now. All because he stuck with it. And he's got my near-eternal respect for it. People give up too easily these days.

 

Don't be one of those people. -bp

[Ramalina]

It is harder for a new player to get decent requisition in a bad match these days. In pre-bomber, pre-team death match days it was fairly easy to get over 1000 requisition per game (assuming you're getting the subscriber bonus and the 500 daily ship bonus) just by flying over to a sat or two that was in the process of being captured and maybe taking out a turret or two.

 

Both tasks that the stock scout exceled at, and even with the strike knocking off a few turrets wasn't that hard.

 

These days though, TDM requires kills and assists for significant requisition gain and nodes in domination tend to be mined deathtraps for inexperienced players.

 

Get a few hundred games worth of experience and it's still feasible to break 1000 requisition every game if req farming is what you're after, but it's no longer nearly as easy as it used to be for an inexperience pilot in a stock ship.

 

For the foreseeable future though, it doesn't look like there's any solution other than spending time getting your ship shot out from under you until you have practice and upgrades.

[MystbladeWA]

I was largely with you until I saw this.

 

There's a pilot on the Ebon Hawk - Imperial side - who could walk up to me right now, cough a huge loog in my face, and I'd still respect him for his tenacity and commitment.

 

I watched Fiveoffive spawn in for what had to be one of his very first battles a long, long time ago (in a galaxy far, far away no less!). He was TERRIBLE. His whole team was. But while the rest of his team kept giving up in the face of a roflstomp, he stayed in.

 

He KEPT staying in. Roflstomp after roflstomp. Death after death. NEVER said a ill word to anyone. Just flew.

 

He's a load to bring down now. All because he stuck with it. And he's got my near-eternal respect for it. People give up too easily these days.

 

Don't be one of those people. -bp

 

We have a player like that on Harbinger.

 

He continually queues and gets smashed most times. Unfortunately for him I haven't really seen him do any better for his tenacity and perseverance. He still gets kicked around the map and does <10k dmg almost every match.

 

So it doesn't work for everyone, but for what it is worth, keep at it Lordcannonhawk. I hope your perseverance pays off in the end.

Edited April 25, 2014 by MystbladeWA

[Asuradipel]

Get a few hundred games worth of experience and it's still feasible to break 1000 requisition every game if req farming is what you're after, but it's no longer nearly as easy as it used to be for an inexperience pilot in a stock ship.

 

It is not the Req Farming, that is just like a christmas present when you can add XYZ to the ship for me. The slaughter house scenarios, "learn to fly", are imho not funny. Not even on the delivering side as far as I can say. They are just massacres without significant experience gain for the receiver.

 

How much do you learn / have fun / have excitement from spawn -> fly 20 seconds -> dead. Or spawn - fight 2 minutes against superior foes -> then dead? It is this failed attempts of my attack runs where I (think) understood the wiggle. And it needs practice and experience. Of course you die in the process, numerous times. But it is significantly different.

 

And to add insult to injury, the more these "Victors" kill you they get more points to ensure that the next time they will smash your face even harder. So they have an added incentive to kill you as fast and as often as possible, not Red Baron hunting but "Baldrick farming". But their game only works if there is enough Baldricks, thats where "learn to fly" comes into play. Which is not true, because if you do not become the same as them, skilled, equipped, TS/mumble, group you will never be able to compete with them.

 

Again, I mean this specific slaughter house scenario. And as an encouragement for all the Baldricks in ops not to "go over the top".

[Rollory]

It is not the Req Farming, that is just like a christmas present when you can add XYZ to the ship for me. The slaughter house scenarios, "learn to fly", are imho not funny. Not even on the delivering side as far as I can say. They are just massacres without significant experience gain for the receiver.

 

You're right, they're not. On Ebon Hawk at least some of us do go out of our way to mitigate these situations, whether by queueing for the opposite faction when we know it's often weak, or just taking it easy when up against a team of noobs. In Domination for example it is quite common for a veteran team to allow a noob team to take and hold a sat without ever seriously trying to dislodge them - there might be some turret shooting going on, or dogfighting near the sat, but not actually taking it. In TDM most vets will, when they see they've pushed the opposing team back to the spawn points, back off a bit. Every now and then there's somebody who pops up thinking mining enemy spawn points is a good idea; that isn't received well by the established pilots.

 

The basic problem is the matchmaking. It shouldn't be on us to restrain ourselves, but right now we do, because it makes for a healthier GSF population.

 

Rhodogast / Kelril, The Ebon Hawk

[Bull_Five_Golf]

OP you're gonna have to accept that the "Super Secret Space Project" has, for the most part, become a mini game played by a very small amount of people. Sometimes the matches will be even, challenging and fun. Sometimes it will be like running head first into a brick wall.

 

Until the devs figure out a way to get more people playing GSF this is how it's going to be.

[GooberNoob]

We have a player like that on Harbinger.

 

He continually queues and gets smashed most times. Unfortunately for him I haven't really seen him do any better for his tenacity and perseverance. He still gets kicked around the map and does <10k dmg almost every match.

 

So it doesn't work for everyone, but for what it is worth, keep at it Lordcannonhawk. I hope your perseverance pays off in the end.

 

cannonhawk...

The kid has no skill but far more determination then I have. I have no idea why, this is a game, supposed to be fun or a way to vent steam. He has become a joke at the start of matches "there's lordcannonhawk, free kill" I've done it quite a bit myself but I have a lot of respect for him if not understanding.

[DamascusAdontise]

Yes GSF can be very unbalanced in terms of match makeup (the pilots)

 

If you come across the "learn to fly" crowd as you put it, try to form a group. And I dont mean with just the 2 shippers your used to, start to add good pilots / 5 shippers to your friends list and organize with these people. You would be absolutely surprised at how some of these so called "ace" groups fold to literally any concerted opposition (not all but some)

 

Dont be a cattle! Thats what they want you to do, play solo and get all pissed off. Shove it in their face and get a group going to offer some competition. Community / grouping is literally the only way to deal with these people. The calls for matchmaking will fall on deaf ears until cross server pvp happens or 10x more people magically start queuing.

 

When I started I had to get upgrades by dailies and weeklies alone (getting tossed around like a dog toy), eventually I got enough components to get some kills / do something. Soon after I started to organize with other people (it was quick and easy) this allowed me to "ride their coattails" at first until I found my playstyle, after that I learned and got better from playing with them and asking questions. This game takes effort to get good at, and this involves organizing into groups. Fight fire with fire! If you choose not to, then your allowing them free easy kills (a vicious cycle eh)

[Sidenti]

We have a player like that on Harbinger.

 

He continually queues and gets smashed most times. Unfortunately for him I haven't really seen him do any better for his tenacity and perseverance. He still gets kicked around the map and does <10k dmg almost every match.

 

So it doesn't work for everyone, but for what it is worth, keep at it Lordcannonhawk. I hope your perseverance pays off in the end.

 

I'd rather have a wing of Gomers who kept trying and dying than a bunch of slacktards who get hit once and quit. I, too, shall root for Lordcannonhawk.

 

With a name like that, he's probably a young'n anyway. Which reminds me - not everyone's got fully developed reflexes yet. I notice a lot of teens play this game. -bp

[Ramalina]

And to add insult to injury, the more these "Victors" kill you they get more points to ensure that the next time they will smash your face even harder. So they have an added incentive to kill you as fast and as often as possible, not Red Baron hunting but "Baldrick farming". But their game only works if there is enough Baldricks, thats where "learn to fly" comes into play. Which is not true, because if you do not become the same as them, skilled, equipped, TS/mumble, group you will never be able to compete with them.

 

Again, I mean this specific slaughter house scenario. And as an encouragement for all the Baldricks in ops not to "go over the top".

 

Truthfully, if you're getting smashed that badly, the people doing the smashing probably aren't getting much out of it in terms of requisition rewards. Not that they aren't earning requisition, but that they likely already have the important upgrades on most or all of their ships, so the req they're getting isn't really doing them much good.

 

One of the problems with GSF, aside from the low population and attendant poor matchmaking, is that a team that gets that far ahead really doesn't have anything to do other than farm the loosing team. If you just sit around you get a non-contributer message, the scenery isn't amazing enough to be worth touring after you seen it a certain number of times, and exhaustion zones mean you can't go all that far in any case. Nicer pilots will switch to less upgraded or less competitive ships on respawn ( if they die), and some will faction swap for the next game. In the middle of a slaughter-fest type match though, there's not a good option for, "something to do other than farm those poor beginners."

 

*Edit: Most of the people with enough skill and gear to help create this sort of lopsided outcome have been on the loosing side plenty of times themselves. So there is a certain amount of sympathy in most cases. You do things like swap to your new Clarion or Spearpoint, maybe be a bit lazy about letting wounded ships get away. Most people though won't actually stop playing just because their team is too far ahead. Maybe go hunting scouts with proton torpedoes with no upgrades in order to give the target a sporting chance, but not sit back at base and do nothing.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Ramalina

[FBPL]

...not Red Baron hunting but "Baldrick farming ".

 

That is quite possibly the funniest thing I've read all week.

Still, I can understand the sense of frustration that you are suffering from. There are plenty of times where I've watched as either teammates, or opposition, have turned what is supposed to be a fun PvP experience into scenes remminiesnt of the Fokker scourge.

 

In contrast I also know of a few players who will have ships that they haven't mastered in their hangers for the times when the other side is a PuG of greenhorns and they'd rather have a fun match than mudhole stomp them.

 

As for quiting and refusing to play whenever you're losing...

 

 

 

...you dont happen to be French by any chance?

Edited April 26, 2014 by FBPL
Grammar

[Asuradipel]

As for quiting and refusing to play whenever you're losing...

 

...you dont happen to be French by any chance?

 

No, actually I am from the tribe that is supposed to run with cheers into machine gun fire

 

If any Vet lets a newbie survive a mistake than this a great opportunity and excellent. And no, I do not refuse to play whenever I am loosing. Loosing is part of the game as is winning. For one to score a kill someone has to die. That you die much more often initially is normal. That is not my point. Nor is the good vet that shows me what you can actually do in a dogfight.

 

My issue is with a specific kind of people that treat and use you as meat in the grinder. And then laugh at you while they have their burger and post on the one side their "successes" and on the other hand tell you "just grow up, you can do it", or "learn to fly".

 

Yes it is frustrating. But beside that, it is their fuel. And by trying all the recommendations in this thread there is only one solution, "be like them". Use groups, skill, equipment, TS, kill on sight

 

And if I do not want this?

 

Am I at fault for trying to have what I understand to have fun? Maybe to fly with one friend without TS?

 

Do I have to "go through the valley of tears" to emerge as one of them to have what I definitely do not consider to be fun? I was once in the reverse situation. It was a massacre. We won 50-8. They just kept coming, we just killed them. Was it fun? No. I wanted them actually to stop coming. It was great for my Req, 8 kills no death. Wow.

 

As said, it is not about loosing or getting blown up for a bad move. Learning by doing. And do it often. My point is a specific setup where you have the butcher on one side and the meat on the other. And you are nothing else to them. This is not the nice Veteran. This is about slaughter.

 

And in this case I think it is fair and right to decide to leave the field.

[FBPL]

Am I at fault for trying to have what I understand to have fun? Maybe to fly with one friend without TS?

 

Nope, not at all. I just think that instead of quitting you should use it as experience. Don't forget that even the Red Baron himself was shot down by a 'newbie' pilot...

I play GSF on the Red Eclipse server, Rep side, most evenings. Feel free to give me a nudge if you need a wingman.

 

(I also fly Imp, but I'm not giving THAT call sign out on here. I like to fly incognito sometimes.)

[General_Brass]

 

And in this case I think it is fair and right to decide to leave the field.

 

I would find it very hard to fault anyone for leaving the field. It's the only sensible protest of a matchmaker that does absolutely nothing. It wont even bother to balance the teams in wargames, and GSF's rapidly declining popularity reflects this neglect.

 

 

The larger problem is that EA/BW remains silent and does nothing to acknowledge the problems with the game. Which means you can expect absolutely nothing to be done about them. This is why I won't spend a single cartel coin on GSF.

[-Streven-]

We have a player like that on Harbinger.

 

He continually queues and gets smashed most times. Unfortunately for him I haven't really seen him do any better for his tenacity and perseverance. He still gets kicked around the map and does <10k dmg almost every match.

 

So it doesn't work for everyone, but for what it is worth, keep at it Lordcannonhawk. I hope your perseverance pays off in the end.

 

Lordcannonhawk is a true trooper.

[homeloard]

I too see Lordcannonhawk on Harbinger, a lot, and he is beginning to finish in the top half of the team so he is making progress. We can all complain about game mechanics but in the end it is a game and should be treated as such. Make the best of it and take out of it what you can. Over the past 4 months I have been on both ends of the stomping and still today there are a couple of groups that simply own the match and trying to beat one of them becomes the reward because you are not going to win that game. I actually think they target me now because I have become such a pest. You can always make something fun if you try. So back to gardening.

[zaskar]

The answer is flight training, make your voice heard in one thread.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=737434

[SammyGStatus]

I would find it very hard to fault anyone for leaving the field. It's the only sensible protest of a matchmaker that does absolutely nothing. It wont even bother to balance the teams in wargames, and GSF's rapidly declining popularity reflects this neglect.

 

 

The larger problem is that EA/BW remains silent and does nothing to acknowledge the problems with the game. Which means you can expect absolutely nothing to be done about them. This is why I won't spend a single cartel coin on GSF.

 

Show me your statistics for rapidly declining please. I never trust information that isn't cited / based purely on speculation. They (BW) need to fix matchmaking in a way that doesn't just become a noob stomp, whether that be an enhanced and required tutorial, or cross-server ranked. Either way, while those issues appear to be supported by the community via the amount of threads concerning this particular thing, when I see 36 people in Kuat Mesas (I did a /who mesas), you can't actually expect your statement to hold - that's me ommitting the two other maps entirely on TEH and I can only see one faction's players.