Pulling before the tank

[Halinalle]

Because that won't stop them from reapplying it.

 

They get annoyed sooner or later. I would.

[rreddy]

Been watching this thread, wanted to put my 2cents in,

My main role is DPS,and if a tank is gonna stand there making his thumb get all smelly, im gonna pull stuff, and 90% of the time i know i can keep myself alive, otherwise i wouldn't do it. I am all for giving the group time to catch up on energy etc. But after a few pulls if its obvious the tank likes to take their time i wont wait for it.

 

As for tactical flashpoints: if you queue as a tank that doesn't make you the leader of the group, nor does it mean a tank is needed. So don't complain when the other 3 players pull trash mobs however they like. Like it was stated before, tanks just want to feel important, and DPS just want to kill stuff, so please, if you wanna tank do it correctly, if you wanna sleepwalk and taunt when you feel like it get outta my way so i can kill stuff.

 

Oh and also KDY:

 

Starship assembly puzzle. Ive lost count of how many times while leveling my PT to 55 i advised the group i knew how to solve the puzzle with the clues, then we ended up vote kicking somebody.

1. The puzzle isnt hard and takes about 1 minute max to read and select the 3 options.

2. The 6 extra elites that spawn DONT give us extra XP when we fail, otherwise nobody would ever bother solving it properly.

3. Dont try to help solve the puzzle by clicking random buttons changing the correct selection just before i hit the test button.

 

If you know the puzzle and want to solve it fine, if you don't then stand back and just be patient., it is easier than the ancient pylons in Eternity Vault, just give the solver time.

[Halinalle]

Been watching this thread, wanted to put my 2cents in,

My main role is DPS,and if a tank is gonna stand there making his thumb get all smelly, im gonna pull stuff, and 90% of the time i know i can keep myself alive, otherwise i wouldn't do it. I am all for giving the group time to catch up on energy etc. But after a few pulls if its obvious the tank likes to take their time i wont wait for it.

 

Do remember that healers have a right to "sacrifice" DPS when needed.

[mikebevo]

If you are a healer stop healing the person pulling before the tank. That will change their tune REAL quick.

Then someone will die, I'm healing I cannot allow that to happen. I even heal through stupid in any flashpoint. Tactical flashpoint I could careless who does what, as long as they stay somewhat in range of the main group as that is what me as a healer is going to do (or at least I'm staying with the person that seems to have a clue).

 

Pulling is the least of my concerns when running with 3 dps that only have eyes for gold. About 25% of the time after I finish a tactical flashpoint I feel like I had to fulfill all three roles. I tanked the weak, strong and even sometimes the elite while all three dps attack the champion. Then I have to keep DPS and myself on our feet and I have to actually kill the weak, strong and elite because the dps is so slow on the champion. After doing that I consider tactical flashpoints a joke, so hell yeah I will pull too. At least that way I get in some damage before everything attacks me. The other way everything attacks me with them at full health.

Edited April 22, 2014 by mikebevo

[RikuvonDrake]

EDIT: Nvm I shouldn't stoop down to your level.

 

One thing I still do want to ask you:

Do you act like a jerk too against your friends and guildmates? Do you also kick them out of the group and finish it with a companion of yours?

If not, what does make it different for you to differentiate between innocent pugs and guildmates/friends? Since if you are really a Darksided rp'er you would betray your friends too.

In any case I feel sorry for the people who have to put up with you.

 

 

@RikuvonDrake: please tell me the names of your characters so I can put them on ignore now.

 

There is a big difference between Darkside V RP and being an ***. Unfortunately, you're just an *** (who also disrespects RPers! double whammy!).

 

As someone who plays tanks almost exclusively, and runs a lot of FPs using Groupfinder, I must say that there are some folks in this thread who I just never want to group with, ever. DPS who wants to feel important? I am just ...

 

KDY and other tactical flashpoints will ruin casual teamplay in this game. It has already started.

 

Cut the BS, votekicking has nothing to do with roleplaying at all. If you can't deal with a tank who's too careful (which is a dream compared to the real problems you can face in groupfinder), perhaps because he's new to the job and doesn't have the confidence to do it right, why pug at all? Since you "mostly play with guild mates", I'm sure you can do it with three.

 

PS: they are right, you're an ***.

 

Wow guys, relax a bit here, I thought people would understand the fact that I was just joking when I mentioned that I did it since I was Darkside 5, clearly irony and sarcasm is problematic on da internetz

Edited April 22, 2014 by RikuvonDrake

[fire-breath]

Do remember that healers have a right to "sacrifice" DPS when needed.

 

Jip .... If I see a dps pulling without being nearly full HP I stop healing/force armoring him. I'm leveling a new sage as dps so I don't want to offheal to much. If needed i'll try to prevent a death ofc but only if the dps thinks for themselves too. You got aggro dumps baby .... use them ;-)

 

About DPS who are:

a - pulling before me as a tank

b - using knockbacks on adds

 

If those DPS are not listening to my question of letting me do my job than I resort to the tactic of doing squat. If you think a tank isn't needed than please don't mind me not tanking it for you. I either just jump arround in circles without attacking or I'll change stance and just autoattack on the adds.

Ohw and that lost boss? meh .... you say you didn't tanks right? Feel free to tank it yourself than. And please don't screw it up as I see many dps doing.

[fire-breath]

Wow guys, relax a bit here, I thought people would understand the fact that I was just joking when I mentioned that I did it since I was Darkside 5, clearly irony and sarcasm is problematic on da internetz

 

This, a hundred times this, and the point about slow tanks, I normally chain pull when I am tanking unless I am really low on HP or the healer is ****** geared. It was one of the biggest problems I faced when I was DPS:ing, tanks doing ready checks before trash packs or just standing around waiting when everyone is ready and at 100% health.

 

I tend to votekick such tanks right before last boss with some snarky message (as I mostly play with guildmembers the tank is kicked) and then do it with another DPS companion instead. Thankfully I think a lot learnt from it since now this problem with slow tanks isn't such a regular issue anymore.

 

Still not seeing any sarcasm here mate.

Please use normal language, lesser agreement wording and some smilies if you are joking. As I said, your post doesn't seem sarcastic to me at all.

I can only hope you are not the one you were saying you are

Edited April 22, 2014 by fire-breath

[RikuvonDrake]

Still not seeing any sarcasm here mate.

Please use normal language, lesser agreement wording and some smilies if you are joking. As I said, your post doesn't seem sarcastic to me at all.

I can only hope you are not the one you were saying you are

 

True, apart from the fact that I credit myself for making all tanks on my server amazing, and a few minutes later I posted, far before you posted , but yea I agree I should have added a smile

Darkside V, gotta roleplay

Edited April 22, 2014 by RikuvonDrake

[Ifolad]

People, i'm only talking about flashpoint Etiquette.... where it is appropriate "IF and WHEN" there is a tank to let them pull first especially on bosses and to AT LEAST let the group get caught up as not everyone has rocket boots to boost ahead like you do.

[RikuvonDrake]

I would say that provided the former trash pack is all killed and everyone have healed up, it acceptable for a DPS to jump in provided the next pack is not particularly difficult, contains a mini boss or one of flashpoint bosses. Unless there is someone explaining tactics or the tank is doing a quick AFK, there is no need for the tank to stand around doing nothing in such situations.

 

In tactical flashpoints you have to consider that the encounters are design for groups with no healers or tanks, just four DPS, if you have a tank you should still give him the opportunity to jump in first as written above. But if he is standing around doing nothing there should be nothing stopping you from jumping in yourself due to the difficulty of tactical flashpoints.

[Gobgrot]

One thing a lot of you might not realize is, not all tank classes have the same skills for agro management. As a guardian I only have one group taunt, it last 6 seconds if Im not damaging the mobs and only 1 skill to damage the long range mobs. This skill has a long cooldown (1 minute ) so isnt always available when I need it. If I get 2-3 large pulls in a row I might feel its necessary to wait for that cd once in a while. Especially doing pugs when Im not comfortable with the healer or the dps's understanding that their job is to keep mobs from attacking the healer ( this is something MOST dps dont seem to understand). Edited April 22, 2014 by Gobgrot

[tharbison]

In general, pulling before the tank in a trinity MMO is just bad form. Period. It you want to pull, roll a tank.

 

Tactical flashpoints present a bit of an enigma in this context since tacticals, by design, don't require a tank. So... you can argue that in tacticals it doesn't matter who pulls. I would argue in tacticals you should still have a 'leader' so people don't run off in different directions pulling different mobs.

[Khevar]

I would argue in tacticals you should still have a 'leader' so people don't run off in different directions pulling different mobs.

Absolutely.

 

It's a real pain when you get Central Armory in KDY and half the group wants to run the rooms clockwise, and half wants to do it counter-clockwise, and you end up either with a triple-pull, or an amoeba-shaped group waffling between the two exits of the room trying to decide who should follow who.

 

P.S. Counter-Clockwise is best!

[SuperGrunt]

Honestly I find it painfully bad when a DPS tries to set the pace, and as a Healer, I will let them get close to dying to try to get them to learn their mistake, and when that doesn't work after a couple of pulls I will tell them to cool it or I won't heal them. DPS are stupid monkeys normally and need to be taught their place. It truly isn't the Tank's job to set the pace, it's the Healer's job to tell the tank to pick it up or cool it down, and when a DPS gets out of line let the stupid monkey die.

[SuperGrunt]

one thing a lot of you might not realize is, not all tank classes have the same skills for agro management. As a guardian i only have one group taunt, it last 6 seconds if im not damaging the mobs and only 1 skill to damage the long range mobs. This skill has a long cooldown (1 minute ) so isnt always available when i need it. If i get 2-3 large pulls in a row i might feel its necessary to wait for that cd once in a while. Especially doing pugs when im not comfortable with the healer or the dps's understanding that their job is to keep mobs from attacking the healer ( this is something most dps dont seem to understand).

 

Q F T !!!

Seriously BioWare stop preventing me from using caps.

Edited April 22, 2014 by SuperGrunt

[Ifolad]

again, i'm talking at level 55 guys, when everyone has all their stuff. When i originally made this post I was talking about level 55's, somewhere along the line tactical got turned into SUB55 ques. I'm talking LEVEL55 ONLY.

 

Sorry for the redundancy but this post was directed at level 55tactical flashpoints ONLY. Not sub 55. We are all aware that tanks at lower levels have crap mitigation and threat gen. Again... level 55!!!!

[Khevar]

again, i'm talking at level 55 guys, when everyone has all their stuff. When i originally made this post I was talking about level 55's, somewhere along the line tactical got turned into SUB55 ques. I'm talking LEVEL55 ONLY.

Okay. Well going back to your OP:

So with the new tactical fp's it is possible to get into a group with 4 dps, 4 heals, 4 tanks, or any combination of that.

So why when you get a tank, 2 dps, and a healer do we ignore the trinity in tactical Fp's, moreover why do people ignore that their is a tank and jump on ahead and pull before the tank? Is it because we all know they (tactical fp) are easy?

You answered your own question in your OP. Tactical flashpoints are easy.

 

In KDY, on my Commando dps, I can solo the trash with a dps pet. Much of the trash I can kill completely solo without any companion, so long as I start the fight at full health with everything off CD.

 

If we're in Hangar Bay and have killed the first group, and the other 3 are milling around instead of running to group 2, I'll type "over here", run to group 2, and start the fight. As long as at least one other player shows up before the last wave, there's no problems.

 

In a non-tactical FP, I tend to follow protocol. But these newer ones seemed to have brought out my inner Zerg.

[Halinalle]

Absolutely.

 

It's a real pain when you get Central Armory in KDY and half the group wants to run the rooms clockwise, and half wants to do it counter-clockwise, and you end up either with a triple-pull, or an amoeba-shaped group waffling between the two exits of the room trying to decide who should follow who.

 

P.S. Counter-Clockwise is best!

 

I usually follow the "majority" in this scenario even though I know counter-clockwise is fastest by far. So if 2 members of the group want to go clockwise then I will follow them, 4th will usually follow us too.

 

Clockwise is worse because:

- You might lose the bonus quest (you have to kill elite defender before scenario is completed)

- It's a lot slower since you have to go back to NW room anyway after all weapons are destroyed.

[Paintcheck]

How is this supposed to help players learn to be a team?

 

It's not, tactical flashpoints are designed to cater to the lowest common denominator.

[SW_display_name]

If you are a healer stop healing the person pulling before the tank. That will change their tune REAL quick.

I just can't do it. Call it a sickness, but as a Healer, if someone's dying, I do my best to keep them alive. Group can vkick (and I'll even support it) if they're unhappy with the person.

 

It's kind of like how doctors, surgeons, hospitals, etc. still treat people who get injured by doing incredibly stupid things. Like, yes, you think they're an idiot. But you're not going to just let them bleed to death or lose a limb.

 

That's just me, though. I totally understand why some healers who have the willpower to watch people die, use it as a teaching tool. Or to preserve their own sanity.

 

Or save their own life — Mara focus on ST DPS tends to mean a Mara running ahead aggros exactly 1 thing, I heal them, and then 5 more things all come for me while the Mara obliviously tunnels their mob down.

[Fazaani]

And i thought that these TFb:s are to get rep tokens, coms and thingies which you need to buy other thingies...

 

Also again i want to point out that these are the risk you take when you que with random dudes. So i have no need to dwell in "that's my role" talk's. Also still on lvl 55 many tank role's seem to have dps gear.

 

If there ain't a problem, don't try to fix it and if there is, educate don't rage... Basic Shait!

Edited April 23, 2014 by Fazaani

[Halinalle]

If there ain't a problem, don't try to fix it and if there is educate don't rage... Basic Shait!

 

I don't care about repair bills anymore after I hit level 50 with character. There's just too much money coming from dailies only. 20k to repairs after one KDY? Nothing.

[Fazaani]

I don't care about repair bills anymore after I hit level 50 with character. There's just too much money coming from dailies only. 20k to repairs after one KDY? Nothing.

 

ah the repair issue then

[Halinalle]

ah the repair issue then

 

20k credits isn't much for level 50+ but even 3k is a lot for level 25. My current "record" is 13k for sub-50 characters.

Even though I don't like when people do that but I would really like to see someone doing it to my cloakies (impossible) so that I could try to beat my personal best.

 

They have tried though.

Edited April 23, 2014 by Halinalle

[Karlbadmanners]

Honestly I love tanking, and the fact that anyone could say we aren't in the "team" mentality is obliviously self-righteous.

 

That aside, I make a point to blow through fps as fast I can based on the skill level/etc of the group, and STILL dps will sometimes start pulling mobs after running ahead, but I just can't fight the nature of the tank role when I play, it's my job to get aggro off everyone even if they were being an idiot. I don't want to cut of my nose to spite my face.

 

I do however almost always point out that it's annoying me or that it's just bad form to be pulling as dps, in regular fps(tac fps are fair game, and frankly I dont even like running them with tanks in the party)

...sadly most of the time they can't understand what was wrong with running ahead and using Overload to knock one trash pack into another before I'm even in the room.

 

EDIT: On a funnier note, about repair costs, I ran an fps once where we died a few times due to stupid things, so I made some off-hand comment about how much it was gonna cost, and one of the guys in the party takes it personally for some reason and begins to insist that repair costs never go over 3k no matter what.

Edited April 23, 2014 by Karlbadmanners