The Imbalance of Bombers and Gunships in GSF

[Korithras]

While the fix in 2.6.2 concerning bombers and the LoS issue was a big help, let's face facts. Scouts and Strike Fighters simply cannot compete with Bombers and Gunships. Particularly if you're going up against a number of them. Essentially in almost every match, whichever side has the most bombers and gunships will win. So how do we balance the issue? This thread is for people to post thoughts and ideas regarding this issue and how to fix it.

[NotThatOne]

While the fix in 2.6.2 concerning bombers and the LoS issue was a big help, let's face facts. Scouts and Strike Fighters simply cannot compete with Bombers and Gunships. Particularly if you're going up against a number of them. Essentially in almost every match, whichever side has the most bombers and gunships will win. So how do we balance the issue? This thread is for people to post thoughts and ideas regarding this issue and how to fix it.

 

 

 

Dude, tell me you're trolling. Please tell me you're trolling. I've seen several Scouts that routinely turn in 15+ kills a match, and I knocked out 16 on a Quell that doesn't even have a full list of rank one upgrades this morning.

 

Maybe you shouldn't forum rage so hard and figure out what you're doing wrong.

[Verain]

I wish a mod would lock these duplicate threads.

[NotThatOne]

I wish a mod would lock these duplicate threads.

 

Report it, I did.

[Korithras]

Dude, tell me you're trolling. Please tell me you're trolling. I've seen several Scouts that routinely turn in 15+ kills a match, and I knocked out 16 on a Quell that doesn't even have a full list of rank one upgrades this morning.

 

Maybe you shouldn't forum rage so hard and figure out what you're doing wrong.

 

Again, not speaking in terms of a one-on-one fight, because any ship can take out another in the hands of the right pilot. But if you've got multiple gunships or multiple bombers vs. strikes and scouts, they take alot of damage or are just outright killed by the time they get into range of gunships. And I don't think anybody needs to be told of how a bomber can just cover a satellite with it's mines and drones and just hide while both it's mines and drones AND the turrets that spawn at the satellite will just chew up any scouts or strikes that get close. Whether you want to admit it or not, the imbalance is there. And it needs to be addressed.

[Verain]

Only thing needs to be addressed is these threads. We already have a bunch of "it's not possible for everyone to fly scouts and strikes all the time, this is clearly a problem" QQ threads all over everything.

[Korithras]

Only thing needs to be addressed is these threads. We already have a bunch of "it's not possible for everyone to fly scouts and strikes all the time, this is clearly a problem" QQ threads all over everything.

 

Thank you, you actually just proved my point. If enough people are saying it's imbalanced, then it's clearly a problem. If not one but two types of fighters we have are unable to compete against the other two when they're in certain numbers? Then there is a problem, and it needs to be fixed. So instead of trolling me about this thread, why not just ignore it, just continue scrolling down the the list on the forums, and leave it open to those who might actually have something "useful" to say in suggesting ideas for the developers to read so that the game becomes fun, fair and balanced for "all" types of pilots, not just one or two of them.

 

In short, if you don't have any ideas to submit to fix the problem, stop wasting both my and everybody else's time with your jabbering on.

Edited March 21, 2014 by Korithras

[mighty_joe]

Thank you, you actually just proved my point. If enough people are saying it's imbalanced, then it's clearly a problem.

 

this might be a misconception. it just means that many people have problems, not necessarily a balance issue.

it could also mean that many players' expectations of what a GSF should look and feel like is disappointed time and again. which is a problem in itself, granted, but has nothing to do with the imbalance of a certain ship.

[Armonddd]

Thank you, you actually just proved my point. If enough people are saying it's imbalanced, then it's clearly a problem.

 

no

 

just

 

no

 

that's not how balance works

[NotThatOne]

Thank you, you actually just proved my point. If enough people are saying it's imbalanced, then it's clearly a problem. If not one but two types of fighters we have are unable to compete against the other two when they're in certain numbers? Then there is a problem, and it needs to be fixed. So instead of trolling me about this thread, why not just ignore it, just continue scrolling down the the list on the forums, and leave it open to those who might actually have something "useful" to say in suggesting ideas for the developers to read so that the game becomes fun, fair and balanced for "all" types of pilots, not just one or two of them.

 

In short, if you don't have any ideas to submit to fix the problem, stop wasting both my and everybody else's time with your jabbering on.

 

Any one type of Fighter should not be about to compete with multiple ships of of Any other type, if that one ship is foolish enough to take them on alone.

 

You're not asking for Balance, you're asking to be OPed. My gunship is a hell of a thing, but when two or three enemy ships jump on me, I'm dead or running for cover. It doesn't matter what kind of ships they are, I'm still going to die, because they have the tactical advantage at that point. It is the same with Strikes, and Bombers.

 

In fact, the only ship I have even a remote chance of surviving a 4 on 1 encounter with is, in fact, a scout. Because it's a got a whole rack full of evasion, and lock breaking abilities, not to mention it's faster and more maneuverable, than any other type of ship in the game. The trade off is it's not as durable, that's how the game works.

 

Stop rage tunnelling, and charging straight into the kill zone, then hurling insults. Maybe think for a second, and use your ships strengths against the enemy ships weakness, and you might just be able to kill a few of them.

 

As for you "If enough people complain about it, maybe it is a problem."

 

No, Just, No. We have a handful of forum whiners, that's just it.

 

If you can't do a 150 damage to a stationary target (All that's needed to take out a mine), or drop a drone, maybe you should go back to angry birds, GSF just isn't the game for you.

 

Also, if you can't latch on to a big slow, lumbering Bomber's six, and blast him with BLC and cluster, until he goes boom, you've got zero business flying a scout.

[TheRampage]

I'm flying all ships equaly and still the feeling is the same - Sting/FF is the best ship there is.

 

bomber with drones is easyest target in the world. Other bomber is hard to take, but that is his role, tank around satelite.

 

I know, you all want back good old days when FF and Sting would fly from A to C killing and caping all on its way, but that is not going to happen anymore.

Edited March 21, 2014 by TheRampage

[SammyGStatus]

no

 

just

 

no

 

that's not how balance works

 

LOL!

 

On a serious note, by the OP's logic, if there's one good player who kills an entire enemy team consistently, they (the team of players) will say there is a problem of balance, when it's a problem of skill. TWEAK YOUR LOADOUTS (be an evasion scout), respond to the situations as they occur, and coordinate your efforts.

 

A scout shouldn't have an easy time of taking out a multitude of gunships.... Hell, It makes perfect sense that you can't crack that wall. If I'm bringing a tiger and you bring a poodle, who do you think will win? Here's one solution: BRING A TIGER (or a gunship / bomber). If you don't have at least 1 or 2 vs a wall of them, then of course the battle will be lost. Are you going to say that, if I bring 3 tanks to assault you in an open area, your team of riflemen could kill me? You need TACTICS. I don't care if you think you shouldn't have to adapt to the situation. YOU MUST ADAPT! Learn to recognize the opposition's ship builds and come up with live strategies. You don't do an ops with all snipers do you?

 

Last note, group que with someone who knows what they're doing. I usually have a wingman because I usually get targetted by at least 3 people at a time, so having someone right their helps. You'll figure it out by adjusting your strategies and testing them, not nerfing my awesomeness.

[Verain]

In short, if you don't have any ideas to submit to fix the problem, stop wasting both my and everybody else's time with your jabbering on.

 

Someone like you probably just wants gunships nerfed into the ground. And guess what? I've contributed on this topic multiple times in the correct damned threads.

 

Please stop doing this. The forum is literally lousy with whiners.

 

And guess what? Most video game forums are. Every forum is a bunch of people asking for nerfs. That doesn't mean that everything needs to be nerfed.

Edited March 21, 2014 by Verain

[Verain]

II know, you all want back good old days when FF and Sting would fly from A to C killing and caping all on its way, but that is not going to happen anymore.

 

Exactly. As normal, it's just another butthurt battle scout who can't be bothered to keep his thoughts to one of the other nerf threads.

 

The core issue is that the game is about class balance. That's most of the lived experience of people getting owned by gunships and bombers. You are intended to need the other classes to win.

Edited March 21, 2014 by Verain

[Mallorik]

Bomber and Gunships are a joke, just like anyone who flies them. One you keep a cursor on someone 15km out and shoot them when they cant shoot you and the other you just drop bots that kill for you.

 

But, if these "Pilots" didn't have bombers and gunships they wouldn't even be playing GSF and since all of the good players already quit and most people who like flight games didn't even try gsf because of the stupid mouse controls the game would probably die in a hurry.

[Verain]

Bomber and Gunships are a joke, just like anyone who flies them.

 

But type 2 battle scout is clearly the height of good game play, with ludicrous burst, top speed, and top turning. Obviously you win in dog fights with gunships because you are better than them for picking a ship that outperforms in every way, and when you get sniped that's not a disadvantage of the battle scout- no, no, it's because they have no skill.

 

 

Worthless thread continues to have worthless posts.

[SammyGStatus]

Bomber and Gunships are a joke, just like anyone who flies them. One you keep a cursor on someone 15km out and shoot them when they cant shoot you and the other you just drop bots that kill for you.

 

But, if these "Pilots" didn't have bombers and gunships they wouldn't even be playing GSF and since all of the good players already quit and most people who like flight games didn't even try gsf because of the stupid mouse controls the game would probably die in a hurry.

 

Ummm I'm a gunship that regularly goes 24+ kills at least twice a night (with under 3 deaths) and, while I can't consistently pull off those numbers on another ship, I'm frequently going 13+ kills and 0-1 deaths in my Quell. You're saying we're jokes, when we look at pilots like you saying "Why does he bother playing?". BUILD YOUR SHIP CORRECTLY and you won't have a problem. If I can't hit you, I can't hurt you. Here's the thing that you're not understanding - Pilot Ability > Ship Upgrades. YOU as the pilot need to become better. There are plenty of scouts that cause me issues, simply by having a group of them harrass me. You don't need to kill a GS to disable it - keeping me occupied does the same thing.

 

If you want to kill someone, increase your weapons abilities, but understand that going purely offensive will hurt your defensive areas as well. You can't expect to just be uber in all fields. If my GS gets hit with 2 ions, I'm stationary and slow. HAVE SOMEONE GET A GUNSHIP ON YOUR TEAM! You're bringing a knife to a gunfight, so stop whinning and get a freakin gun(ship).

 

Where are you getting your statistics from? "Most people... didn't even try gsf because of the... mouse controls"? Uhh, cite your sources, or you're just going to keep seeming like a QQer. I'm growing tired of this. People who complain about GS's and Bombers prolly haven't played them enough to understand how they work properly. Moving around and darting to get close, then following with close-pursuit dogfighting is the best way to take down a GS with a scout / strike.

[Verain]

By the way, here's how you know OP is a type 2 battle scout:

 

If he was a strike fighter, he'd be complaining about the problems of "bombers, gunships, and scouts". He'd probably just ask for strike buffs. But since every time a type 2 battle scout bleeds their own blood it's a design flaw, clearly half the classes in the game need dramatic and sweeping nerfs, and of course, strike fighters are perfect, because they are flashfire food.

[Davionix]

For bombers : Use the EMP Luke !

For gunships : I dont know... Fly casual !

 

/thread

Edited March 21, 2014 by Davionix

[Zoom_VI]

TWEAK YOUR LOADOUTS

YOU MUST ADAPT!

adapt? ADAPT?

ion/slug/BLC/dfield/barrel roll is the best gunship loadout for every situation and every opponent a gunship will ever find itself fighting. Sure scouts and strikes need different loadouts to deal with different situations and we have to make compromises based on what we want to do, while knowingly gimping ourselves in other situations because we have too.

 

But gunships? Nope, no compromising necessary, the only load out change a gunship ever does is pressing "1" to change railgun. Why do you think every gunship worth anything uses the exact same build? Because that build is best for GS v scout, GS v strike, GS v bomber, and GS v GS. You don't even know what adapt means because you have never had to do it.

 

I'm sorry if this seemed like a rage post, but being told to adapt by a class of ship that has never had to adapt is just....plain....no.

Edited March 21, 2014 by Zoom_VI

[Gavin_Kelvar]

By the way, here's how you know OP is a type 2 battle scout:

 

If he was a strike fighter, he'd be complaining about the problems of "bombers, gunships, and scouts". He'd probably just ask for strike buffs. But since every time a type 2 battle scout bleeds their own blood it's a design flaw, clearly half the classes in the game need dramatic and sweeping nerfs, and of course, strike fighters are perfect, because they are flashfire food.

 

This is very true. Honestly as a striker pilot I find bombers very balanced overall and my impression is that most of the rage over bombers are battle scouts that still haven't come to terms with the concept that pre-2.6 they were performing well beyond their intended capabilities.

 

Aside from GS Ion Railgun issues (which is a whole separate thread) I think they're pretty balanced although perhaps some tweaking between slugs and plasma is needed to get some more variety in there. I still don't get why they have BLCs and my Type 1 striker doesn't but eh I can deal.

 

I guess as a striker pilot I have a different perspective on current balance issues since the game is way more balanced than pre-2.6 whereas battle scout pilots are coming to grips with the shock that they weren't intended to be OP kill monsters (not all of course as I suspect at least some were aware that there were balance issues) and this I suspect makes current balance issues look horribly bad.

[SammyGStatus]

adapt? ADAPT?

ion/slug/BLC/dfield/barrel roll is the best gunship loadout for every situation and every opponent a gunship will ever find itself fighting. Sure scouts and strikes need different loadouts to deal with different situations and we have to make compromises based on what we want to do, while knowingly gimping ourselves in other situations because we have too.

 

But gunships? Nope, no compromising necessary, the only load out change a gunship ever does is pressing "1" to change railgun. Why do you think every gunship worth anything uses the exact same build? Because that build is best for GS v scout, GS v strike, GS v bomber, and GS v GS. You don't even know what adapt means because you have never had to do it.

 

I'm sorry if this seemed like a rage post, but being told to adapt by a class of ship that has never had to adapt is just....plain....no.

 

Just because my build doesn't change, doesn't mean my tactics don't. I don't just try and pick scouts off while there are 4 attacking me. I avoid as best as possible, then I turn to take them out. I don't just use my slug regardless of the opposition - I ADAPT to what's going on around me. If you're a scout, build for evasion. Those are the guys that live longer and make more of an impact. Ever play against Jaxin on Jung'Ma?

 

There will always be 1 build that's better than the others. That's the law of nature, regardless on how much time the devs sync into balance. Players learning to play the optimum build, do better. Just how it is

[Zoom_VI]

Just because my build doesn't change, doesn't mean my tactics don't. I don't just try and pick scouts off while there are 4 attacking me. I avoid as best as possible, then I turn to take them out. I don't just use my slug regardless of the opposition - I ADAPT to what's going on around me. If you're a scout, build for evasion. Those are the guys that live longer and make more of an impact.

Not to be snappy but telling a scout to use evasion builds is like telling a Rage Maurader to use Smash, and seems like your try to passive/aggressive insult us scouts.

 

Ever play against Jaxin on Jung'Ma?

Yes I have played played against him, and not only that I shot him down 1 to 1 a couple times. He has gotten me a few times too. Playing against him was probably one of the more enjoyable memories I have from GSF

 

There will always be 1 build that's better than the others. That's the law of nature, regardless on how much time the devs sync into balance. Players learning to play the optimum build, do better. Just how it is

That's odd tho because scouts don't have one build that's optimal for all opponents We have builds that are good against several classes (which should be revisited balance-wise) but we don't have one build that is good for everything. And there shouldn't be, if there is such a build then that build should be nerfed. FoTM builds should be FoTM not permanent.

Edited March 21, 2014 by Zoom_VI

[-Streven-]

Ummm I'm a gunship that regularly goes 24+ kills at least twice a night (with under 3 deaths) and, while I can't consistently pull off those numbers on another ship, I'm frequently going 13+ kills and 0-1 deaths in my Quell.

 

Think about what you just said here. I believe if you look hard enough at that statement you might understand why people want gunships balanced. Currently they are not.

 

To the OP. There are probably two dozen threads crying about gunships and bombers. If you want to constructively add to the conversation post a well articulated comment in one of those and try to abstain from hype and exaggeration which do nothing to help your cause.

[Mallorik]

But type 2 battle scout is clearly the height of good game play, with ludicrous burst, top speed, and top turning. Obviously you win in dog fights with gunships because you are better than them for picking a ship that outperforms in every way, and when you get sniped that's not a disadvantage of the battle scout- no, no, it's because they have no skill.

 

 

Worthless thread continues to have worthless posts.

 

A scout will win in dogfights because its the only ship that can dogfight, all the other ships are for people who cant dogfight. If they could they would fly scouts.