Set bonuses are unbalanced - weren't we promised an overhaul and a fix?

[AdamLKvist]

(Repost since public test server seemed like a bad idea of a forum to bring this up, some comments and answers in OP - http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=728432 )

 

Dear Bioware (and my fellow Biodrones),

 

Lets talk about set bonuses! I'll begin with some bullet points.

 

• - They are outdated.
  
• - They are unbalanced (some classes gain 15% crit on main burst abilities while others get +5m range???)
  
• - They are available cross-play-style (PvE <-> PvP). Bolster is an issue.
  

 

Needless to say I believe that there's time for a change. I'll try to keep this simple and as such I'll base this post around an example being the sage seer/ sorc corruption (heal spec).

 

PvP gains a set bonus that returns some HP when using noble sacrifice and a reduced duration of the lockout for the bubble.

PvE gains a 1.5s CD reduction on healing trance/innervate, and 50 more force.

 

1. Mixing the PvP and PvE pieces for PvP healing is BiS - bolster does the work and makes sure you get an ability off cooldown sooner that completely changes the way you can approach healing in PvP. An entire GCD to spare untill your next healing trance/innervate is huge. Ever played a merc/mando healer without the set bonus? Its painful, no flow to the healing.

 

Thought: I find it poor game design that mixing in PvE pieces and bonuses into PvP gear nets you better results.

Solution: Add the healing trance/innervate set bonus to PvP 4 piece bonus and keep 2 piece.

 

2. Old set bonuses still give amazing return in PvP because of bolster - this is an enormous issue. For example I happen to have the old war hero armorings for healing which reduces the lockout on healing bubble b y 3 seconds instead of the currently in-game 1.5. This is gamebreaking, an entire GCD on each target. Resulting in my bubble being available every 14 sec, way too good.

 

Thought: Old set bonuses were meant to be faded out as part of natural gear progression and as such they didnt prove to be a balance issue but as off now the implementation of bolster prevents that from taking effect resulting in some players having the upper hand, some bonuses being too good and some synergy not expected since the game isnt balanced around old bonuses but new.

Solution: I hate to, when healing, have to use bolster to get a set bonus - but the way set bonuses are working right now I simply can not "not" do it. Furthermore the innervate change needs to apply in PvP (as a set bonus or a baseline change) as well since its already available and it truly makes the class a lot more fun healing on. Entering open world with such gear is so boring, I'd rather grind my PvP gear with same bonus.

 

The above example is one fix that needs to happen. There are A LOT more set bonuses that people are not happy with, my fellow Biodrones please contribute to the thread, that needs adjusting.

 

• - I'd like to hear Bioware's opinion about mixing set bonuses to reach max potential.
  
• - I'd like to hear Bioware's explination about using old bonuses in PvP, how can it be "allowed" since bolster fixes your gear anyway? (Means there's a difference in performance and options depending on how long you've been here. For cosmetics thats a fundamental part of MMOs - for gameplay? Its ridicolous. And I say that being on the advantageous side).
  
• - I'd like to hear Bioware's opinion about whether or not, moving forward, we will see an update, a rebalance and some QoL fixes for setbonuses?
  

 

I would be thrilled to have these questions answered!

 

 

 

____

 

I was in the PTS thread encouraged to post an idea of how to easily fix this, as can be seen below. Its only a quick draft, one that however would result in a better balance for the example at hand, sage/sorc (other classes need the same attention, again, this is only one example)

 

 

Take Inquisitors/Consulars. They have four sets of set bonuses. How would you go about changing those so that they worked for both PvE/PvP and how would you deal with old gear?

 

http://ootinicast.com/2013/05/pve-pvp-2-piece-4-piece-set-bonuses-classes-2-0/

 

Mystic PvE: Leave the PvE bonuses as they are, they work fine for PvE.

Mystic PvP: Copy 2 piece PvE bonus to PvP 4 piece bonus.

 

Stalker PvP: Fine don't touch.

Stalker PvE: Fine. Might need to adjust the numbers as shadows need more sustained damage.

 

Survivor PvE: Fine. Shadow/Assassin tanks are in a very good spot.

Surviror PvP: Keep 2 set bonus, copy PvE bonus to 4 piece PvP

 

Force Master PvE: Set bonuses are fine. Sorc/sage are lacking some in DPS but its not because of the bonuses, fix is hopefully/presumably coming in 2.7

Force Master PvP: Keep 2 set bonus. The 4 piece bonus is the BIGGEST joke ever (Increases range of Shock and Jolt or Project and Mind Snap by 5 meters.). Move the PvE 2 set bonus to PvP 4 set bonus. (Might be too powerful, if so, add +1 second to force speed, - time lockout buble or other utility)

 

 

By moving tiers I effectively made sure that PvE and PvP cant stack bonuses (they wont stack*) and as such this was easily fixed by moving tiers around.

 

As for armorings PRE 2.0 (old bonuses) I would mark them so that they are not affected by bolster, and strip the armorings of expertise (I believe thats already the case but not 100% sure so just clarifying). Essentially making it impossible to wear in PvP as you sacrifice too much expertise and survivability.

 

Edited March 17, 2014 by AdamLKvist

[Capt_Beers]

I would also really like a fix for the DPS Eliminator set bonus for Pyro PT's. As it is now the 4 piece is amazing and the 2 piece is useless as it affects abilities that PT's don't even get. The 4 piece is absolutely worth the terrible 2 piece but it would be nice if the 2-piece could be made useful.

 

It could affect an ability that PT's get and Mercs don't such as Flame Burst, Flame Sweep, Harpoon, Neural Surge, Explosive Fuel and Shoulder Cannon are abilities that should be affected.

[Tankqull]

simply implement a merchent selling the missing pve/pvp armorings for the other playstyle

problem solved.

[Uber_the_Goober]

Howsabout a vendor where you can buy your own set bonus - that'd be spiffy. Mix and match from a bunch of choices.

[Capt_Beers]

Howsabout a vendor where you can buy your own set bonus - that'd be spiffy. Mix and match from a bunch of choices.

 

I like that idea but I just don't think it's very practical. It would take about a day for the testing to be done and the numerically better set bonuses would be picked out and that would be that, those would be the bonuses that everyone would run. Plus how many different bonuses could there really be without inadvertently making something OP?

[Kurvv]

I like that idea but I just don't think it's very practical. It would take about a day for the testing to be done and the numerically better set bonuses would be picked out and that would be that, those would be the bonuses that everyone would run. Plus how many different bonuses could there really be without inadvertently making something OP?

This. Especially considering bioware's track record with balancing.

Some bonuses are truly awful though and need to be redone.

[cashogy_reborn]

I would also really like a fix for the DPS Eliminator set bonus for Pyro PT's. As it is now the 4 piece is amazing and the 2 piece is useless as it affects abilities that PT's don't even get. The 4 piece is absolutely worth the terrible 2 piece but it would be nice if the 2-piece could be made useful.

 

It could affect an ability that PT's get and Mercs don't such as Flame Burst, Flame Sweep, Harpoon, Neural Surge, Explosive Fuel and Shoulder Cannon are abilities that should be affected.

 

To be fair, the Combat Tech set works for Pyro just as well as Eliminator works for Arsenal. Itd be great if we could have Set Bonuses work like Augments, where you can slot in whatever 2pc and 4pc you want for your class. Freedom to the players.

[Capt_Beers]

To be fair, the Combat Tech set works for Pyro just as well as Eliminator works for Arsenal. Itd be great if we could have Set Bonuses work like Augments, where you can slot in whatever 2pc and 4pc you want for your class. Freedom to the players.

 

I don't know I feel like the 15% increased crit chance on an ability that you can use every 6 secs is a better bonus that the 15% crit chance on an ability you can use every 9 secs. The Pyro spec is built around Rail Shot, why wouldn't I take every bonus available for it? The Combat Tech bonuses are good for Pyro but not great.

[Pearlie]

I don't know I feel like the 15% increased crit chance on an ability that you can use every 6 secs is a better bonus that the 15% crit chance on an ability you can use every 9 secs. The Pyro spec is built around Rail Shot, why wouldn't I take every bonus available for it? The Combat Tech bonuses are good for Pyro but not great.

 

Or, to put it more bluntly, if you're running Pyro, Eliminator is the only choice.

[Jherad]

The PvP set bonus for concealment operatives is a travesty. You'd have to be crazy not to work for the PvE ones.

[AdamLKvist]

The PvP set bonus for concealment operatives is a travesty. You'd have to be crazy not to work for the PvE ones.

 

Unfortunately this is a reoccuring problem which, imo, should be fixed ASAP. I want to work towards having BiS PvP gear - that fact is already dimished by bolster but the set bonuses makes it even worse... Anti climax.

 

PvP bonuses on their own are so bad that they really do need an overhaul :/

[AngusFTW]

Specs/classes i use pve set bonus cause pvp ones are baws

 

merc arsenal spec(as arsenal 2 pc pve combined with 2 piece field medic pvp is my favorite combo there)

sage/sorc heal (heal 2 pc pve)

Scoundrel heal (heal 2 pc pve)

Scoundrel DPS (2 pc campaign pve)

 

yer there is a lot of crap set bonuses. Only decent ones are the full merc/mando healer set bonuses (go figure ) warrior/knight deeps, and eliminator (but only for pyro really)

Edited March 17, 2014 by AngusFTW

[jack__]

As stated in the OP the main set bonuses that need to be changed are the ones where the effect from the PvE bonus is integral to the playstyle of the class. The biggest examples I can think of are the merc and sorc healer set bonuses and to a lesser extent, the assassin dps set bonus. On these classes, not using a pve armourings is detrimental as for the healer set bonuses, they reduce the cooldown of key rotational heals, and for assassin dps, they lose one of the main force management tools, especially for madness spec (however the 4 piece pvp bonus is too good to pass up and madness is rarely played).

 

In these cases, not having a set bonus means that the classes rotation is significantly changed, which goes against the idea of set bonuses being there to give a little extra buff to geared players.

[Zakmonster]

Combat Tech set bonus gives you a crit bonus to the one ability you don't get a surge bonus to as Pyro (Rocket Punch). Combat Tech works great for AP, because you get a 30% surge bonus to Rocket Punch, but Pyro has no such talent. It means that going Combat Tech instead of Eliminator for a Pyro PT means you're losing out on damage, plain and simple.

 

Two piece set bonus for Eliminator could also add a cooldown reduction on Harpoon, or a heat cost reduction on Flame Sweep.

[Capt_Beers]

Combat Tech set bonus gives you a crit bonus to the one ability you don't get a surge bonus to as Pyro (Rocket Punch). Combat Tech works great for AP, because you get a 30% surge bonus to Rocket Punch, but Pyro has no such talent. It means that going Combat Tech instead of Eliminator for a Pyro PT means you're losing out on damage, plain and simple.

 

Two piece set bonus for Eliminator could also add a cooldown reduction on Harpoon, or a heat cost reduction on Flame Sweep.

 

I was thinking about a CD reduction on Harpoon for Eliminator but would that make taking the 2 piece Combat Tech along with the Harpoon CD reduction in the AP tree would that make it possible for PT's to have too much control?

[Hanonar]

Worst 2 piece has to be the jugg/guardian (healed for +8% max hp when you intercede/guardian leap, hey bioware 8% is NOTHING very rarely does the actual heal save me) but the 10% damage bonus after force leap is too good to pass up....

 

but then i look at other 2 pieces (even the +5m range ones) and i wish i could have something even remotely useful for actual fighting like maybe having our 2 piece give a 15% slow when a target is hit by saber throw? I don't know, SOMETHING. I hate that stupid 2 piece heal....

Edited March 18, 2014 by Hanonar

[Glower]

Agree, but...

 

while others get +5m range???

Don't touch my takedown!!!

[TUXs]

I would also really like a fix for the DPS Eliminator set bonus for Pyro PT's. As it is now the 4 piece is amazing and the 2 piece is useless as it affects abilities that PT's don't even get. The 4 piece is absolutely worth the terrible 2 piece but it would be nice if the 2-piece could be made useful.

 

It could affect an ability that PT's get and Mercs don't such as Flame Burst, Flame Sweep, Harpoon, Neural Surge, Explosive Fuel and Shoulder Cannon are abilities that should be affected.

 

Good post! Could not agree more.

[AdamLKvist]

As stated in the OP the main set bonuses that need to be changed are the ones where the effect from the PvE bonus is integral to the playstyle of the class. The biggest examples I can think of are the merc and sorc healer set bonuses and to a lesser extent, the assassin dps set bonus. On these classes, not using a pve armourings is detrimental as for the healer set bonuses, they reduce the cooldown of key rotational heals, and for assassin dps, they lose one of the main force management tools, especially for madness spec (however the 4 piece pvp bonus is too good to pass up and madness is rarely played).

 

In these cases, not having a set bonus means that the classes rotation is significantly changed, which goes against the idea of set bonuses being there to give a little extra buff to geared players.

 

This is a good post, I agree.

 

1) Set bonuses should not change core rotations of a class, agreed (thus make such changes baseline or at least the set bonus available on PvP gear as well as PvE gear)

2) I think the problem is a big one when PvPers admitt that they go for PvE bonuses because they are simply too good too pass up on. (Viable only because of bolster...)

 

Bioware did say they wanted to have a look at these... I just hope that its sooner rather than later as I believe that set bonuses should not be as static as they have been left to be in this game... And while static they have been providing a bigger bonus to certain classes over others (some QoL fixes are needed, as well)

Edited March 18, 2014 by AdamLKvist

[sanchito]

Worst 2 piece has to be the jugg/guardian (healed for +8% max hp when you intercede/guardian leap, hey bioware 8% is NOTHING very rarely does the actual heal save me) but the 10% damage bonus after force leap is too good to pass up....

 

but then i look at other 2 pieces (even the +5m range ones) and i wish i could have something even remotely useful for actual fighting like maybe having our 2 piece give a 15% slow when a target is hit by saber throw? I don't know, SOMETHING. I hate that stupid 2 piece heal....

 

that's actually a really awesome set bonus for jugg tanks. you intercede a lot...

[Uber_the_Goober]

Worst 2 piece has to be the jugg/guardian (healed for +8% max hp when you intercede/guardian leap, hey bioware 8% is NOTHING very rarely does the actual heal save me) but the 10% damage bonus after force leap is too good to pass up....

 

but then i look at other 2 pieces (even the +5m range ones) and i wish i could have something even remotely useful for actual fighting like maybe having our 2 piece give a 15% slow when a target is hit by saber throw? I don't know, SOMETHING. I hate that stupid 2 piece heal....

 

Depends on if you're tank or DPS...simple really.

[L-RANDLE]

Depends on if you're tank or DPS...simple really.

 

I wear PvP Vindicator and PvE War Leader on my Guardian tank.

[Hanonar]

that's actually a really awesome set bonus for jugg tanks. you intercede a lot...

 

Then put it on the tank 2 piece, not the DPS 2 piece.

 

Yes, intercede is a nice escape but for actual survivability... it doesn't help at all and from the sound of it Tanks don't get the tanking set bonuses.... which proves how stupid the jugg set bonuses are...

 

Move the DPS 2 piece to tanking set and give the DPS a new set bonus useful for actual DPS.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Hanonar

[honkymonkey]

Yes, would be awesome to see the set bonuses balanced.

[AdamLKvist]

bump for justice