Then put it on the tank 2 piece, not the DPS 2 piece. Yes, intercede is a nice escape but for actual survivability... it doesn't help at all and from the sound of it Tanks don't get the tanking set bonuses.... which proves how stupid the jugg set bonuses are... Move the DPS 2 piece to tanking set and give the DPS a new set bonus useful for actual DPS.

Worst 2 piece has to be the jugg/guardian (healed for +8% max hp when you intercede/guardian leap, hey bioware 8% is NOTHING very rarely does the actual heal save me) but the 10% damage bonus after force leap is too good to pass up.... but then i look at other 2 pieces (even the +5m range ones) and i wish i could have something even remotely useful for actual fighting like maybe having our 2 piece give a 15% slow when a target is hit by saber throw? I don't know, SOMETHING. I hate that stupid 2 piece heal....

You don't =P They could just turn off the animation if you leap to yourself and leave the small light effects in... Seriously, its not a hard change, I have no clue why they're trying to avoid stuff like that. (Though the 20% would be really nice for PvP =P)

i'd be willing to trade the 4% DR for 15 or 20 or even 30% AoE DR, (Been playing PTS with Rydarus alot) honestly, we're pretty close to ideal balance, we just need some AoE DR (any % really) and something to use to draw stealthers out other than cyclone slash, if freezing force could reveal 1 stealther who was in the AoE with 45 second lockout i would be perfectly fine with that, but the fact that stealthers can just attack us then bail out whenever they feel like it is a bit frustrating considering that we are the only class now that doesn't have low cooldown AoE moves or built in stealth detection is a bit silly on top of no root break. On a side note: Why don't they just enable a self guardian leap and make the DR for allies only? Seems like it'd be a quick 2 or three lines of code for an actual threat drop.

Because they're busy with player housing -_-

Short and sweet the way I see it: Snipers are the king of kiting, while they can take some really big hits they have ways to deal with it and escape, nail melee with potshots as they struggle to get closer. Melee DPS shouldn't have a plethora of DCDs but neither should they blow up in two hits if they don't have stealth (Looking at DPS Guardians/juggs) and ranged should be able to kite the melee but NOT facetank them. If I could at least leap/pull a sniper I wouldn't mind them anywhere near as much as I do now, but I walk into range of a sniper, get knocked back and rooted, assuming i didn't just fall off a whole catwalk i now have to tank a hit and try to walk back into range, I am treated to a root and another potshot. I walk closer to be stunned for 4 seconds and treated with, you guessed it, more potshots. My health is at LEAST half by now if not more. As my resolve bar is filled the sniper pops evasion, ignores my damage for even further potshots and if I am STILL not dead by then they can use roll and repeat the ENTIRE process.. (Guardians would have to use probably all of their DCDs to even make it halfway and vanguards must use HTL/reactive shield to get 3/4ths of the way through that) While I don't mind snipers having defenses for melee or having DCDs they shouldn't just be able to faceroll melee classes like they can do, there should be SOME degree of skill required to faceroll a melee, i do understand what snipers mean when they say they are 'squishy' (cuz if they don't use their Cooldowns effectively they truly are) BUT they have so many tools for kiting they shouldn't be facetanking melee like i see so many snipers do the whine they died too fast. (Vigi guardian is my main, sniper is one of my two side classes i play with Vanguard being the other)

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#300ZrccMZcIrrzRrccd.3 This is what i did for mine before i got bored of the 1 dimensional rotations. It actually helped my survivability alot and i still did enough damage to be a threat. Can't deal damage when dead

Assassins have force shroud!!! awesome ability. Overload. Stealth. Discharge proc. As sorc you don't have a chance in 1 vs 1 against operative or assassin. Assassin infiltration has more chances to win. See? I can do it too, listing abilities to make a class sound OP is not hard.....

The fact that i got a good portion of that math right is amazing to me in all honesty, I am horrible at math and number crunching, i just wanted people to have an educated stance on what the nerf is doing you're free to have your own opinion but the fact is its an AoE burst spec that is losing its AoE (what is the logic in that?) Other classes had ONE move nerfed (orbital nerf was indeed heavy but it didn't just flat out ruin a spec, it'd be like going into the sniper's lethality tree and no longer have cull interact with a target afflicted by DoTs. It doesn't make sense. Carnage marauder in TWO GCDs can easily beat focus's single target damage, all the tree has going for it is the AoE damage, the sustained is terrible, the single target is terrible, the (guardian only) survivability is terrible, there is no CC in the tree. So it loses its AoE so it can hit one target for 10k. One. 10k on a single target is laughable damage that most specs can easily beat out. Before saying 'the spec is fine' please play it in depth a bit to actually understand fully what the nerf does. Now, you're just starting to sound bitter over smash.... (don't forget i even like that the spec is being nerfed myself because i believe it needs a total overhaul, but it doesn't change the fact that there will be no reason to play this spec at all after 2.7.. in Two GCDs vengeance easily hits around 10k.)

So, because bads can't actually pay attention to who they're hitting the entire tree's balance is subject to major change for PvE AND PvP? Its a sustained damage tree, DoTs are there for a reason you don't just take things out of a spec because few people are incompetent. And if you really wanted that you could always do the classic: DoTs do not tick on sleeping or incapacitated targets

Vengeance takes a bit more skill to use than carnage, but carnage is the 'better' out of the two. Jugg does have worse Defensive cooldowns (but saber reflect is arguably broken in both PvP and PvE when used correctly) and vengeance while having the 4 second CC immunity you don't have a root breaker. Kiting a vengeance juggernaut can be easy if you have a root or two but if you play well it can still work and it can be hard to peel a vengeance jugg off of someone if there is no root being used... Mara combat has alot of burst and force camo and a good amount of roots and some pretty high burst, but if you don't use your DCDs effectively you're going to be cut through like hot butter. Not to mention all the procs in that tree are totally RNG based... Both of these specs you MUST take the time to learn though, you can't just pick it up and expect to be amazing at these. (I have seen ALOT of vengeace players the first week after the buffs and they were all terrible and gave up in that same week deeming it 'bad')

You clearly didn't read the OP then if you think its 'fine'. Its losing 180% of its damage.... Not sure what makes you think thats 'okay'. It was a very easy spec to counter (use a taunt on it and its damage drops by quite a bit). The spec is focused around AoE damage (its a stupid design, but hey thats how it works) so now Bioware takes away 180% of the AoE..... lets nerf gore from the marauders carnage tree to 30% pen then see how they do then. (same basic idea) Its gutting the entire design of the Spec.... 7 second intervals of single target 10k damage... (assuming you're not being taunted or having your damage reduced) Most specs can do 10k within 2 GCDs. A 'good player won't be able to 'make it work'.. now there is zero reason to even play the spec..

Its nice to see someone else who understands... Those who still roll smash are gonna roll it and still just derp through the classes that hate it the most Also, thank you for the surge info, I didn't know because I typically run Vigilance and don't really care for the instadeath that is smash spec (and doesn't carnage hit Force scream and Dispatch for 8-10k during gore?)

I am posting this because I am tired of every single post being someone misunderstanding the actual smash nerf... its got on my nerves at this point so i am making this whole thread so people understand what the nerf really does... First of all force sweep can no longer be used to check for stealth (minor issue but a mini nerf to all guardian specs since it has more range than cyclone slash) In the focus/smash tree you have three talents that increase force sweep's damage... Swelling winds: Basically 20% damage increase to force sweep (and cyclone slash LOL) Felling Blow: Force leap and Zealous leap have a 100% chance to make your next force sweep used an automatic critical hit Singularity: With each stack you gain 33.3% extra damage to force sweep.... amounting to 99.9% damage at three stacks. So all of this is only a 119.9% damage increase to an ability that without any of this only hits for about 2k... ish.. But then you have the autocrit combined with the extra 15% Surge... and since most players have around 85% surge for smash spec thats another damage increase... So on secondary targets with the 2.7 change the AoE burst spec... (look at the skill trees Guardian Marauder there is very little damage increase or even auto crit for anything else) So now the spec loses its AoE. so every (7 seconds?) its going to hit ONE person for about 10k.... the rest are going to be hit for 3k...ish (BW said that swelling winds is now going to be able to hit other players as of the most recent list of 'changes'.) So now if you're going to say the spec is 'fine' at least get your facts straight... I am tired of seeing people say 'oh its fine you get to auto crit on two targets!/you will still deal 6k damage to all targets! P.S. If i got the math wrong when adding in the surge, oh well, then you can do the math yourself... My only goal here was to make people actually understand what bioware is doing (tired of reading misinformation about the smash nerf) -A vigilance/vengeance player. EDIT: Oh yes, and feel free to troll or whatever but I am in favor of smash being nerfed too, so maybe it won't just be 'jump in and flail like a fish out of water' and get buffs in other places that require some degree of skill..

Would there be a way to spec for extra damage on maul for at least a little extra instant damage? Or is the stuff in the left tree too valuable?