Hognose Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Why is most GSF matches an exercise in futility? http://imgur.com/cbOwNZS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revelum Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Is it the bombers that could easily be countered with Gunships that's the issue here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterBlackJack Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 And the point if all of this is.......? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhelm Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 The image does not make a statement of any kind that I can detect. Please use your words so we may be enlightened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elly_Dawn Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 (edited) actually it makes perfect sense... with some people saying "you have 3 spawn-points" like that's the answer... well, what are you gonna do when you have all Gunships and Bombers spawn-camping all 3 of your spawn-points, bombers laying bombs and drones on your spawn-points and gunships sniping the leftovers from afar, no matter where you spawn... all it takes is 3 Gunships and the rest Bombers to lock down another team completely... "get in your own Gunship and snipe the bombers" you say? good luck getting a target locked in the less than 1 second between spawning and being blown away by concentrated drones and sniper shots... anyone that does not see this are choosing not to see it... Edited March 11, 2014 by Elly_Dawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvershadows Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 (edited) Are you trying to say that on your server you have 12 man groups consistently fielding 4 ships at each spawn point with 2 bombers and 2 gunships per group? Sorry sweetheart, I call BS. Edited March 11, 2014 by silvershadows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itkovian Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 I believe the point the user is trying to make is that the meta for TDM has devolved into a team loading nothing but Bombers and Gunships, with the Bombers laying down a mine/drone field while the Gunships snipe from within that field. And the fact of the matter is that this is indeed very difficult to defeat, especially if your team has pugs who just stream in to get slaughtered. All they need is to sit there and wait for the pugs to die. As far as I can tell from experience, the best way to beat this is with gunships and strikes making a concerted push to bust up the minefield and go in after the gunships. Once the gunships have been forced to scatter, it is possible to pick off the bombers piecemeal (strikes are very effective at doing so). Then you can inject scouts to finish off the gunships. The inherent problem with this is two-fold: 1- Forming the bomber ball is easy and doesn't require much coordination. Busting the bomber ball takes excellent coordination and a concerted effort. 2- Unless you keep the pressure on, nothing is stopping the other team from balling up again elsewhere. This is a problem because the bomber/gunship ball is easy to make, and discourages dogfighting, which defeats the point of TDM in the first place. THAT SAID, when there is actual variety in both teams, with each team having bomber/gunship balls AND Strikes AND Scouts darting in and out of no-man's land to pick off enemies, it can make for an awesome match. Had one just like that yesterday, and it was a blast. So ultimately the issue is that role diversity should be encouraged, and there should be a drawback to loading nothing but bombers and gunships. It may be that the real problem is that Strike Fighters aren't popular enough... if more people understood just how wonderful they were against bombers while still doing well against scouts and gunships, we might see more diversity. Itkovian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowsNIte Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Yeah...those games are not fun. Its not about spawn camping, there's little point in doing so when like Itkovian describes, they can ball up somewhere. Any approach toward said ball will be meet first with gunship fire, then drone fire, then mines out the wahzoo. If one of the carriers(and god forbid more then one) is packing a hyperspace beacon, your chances of breaking that mobile fort are nil. Whats that, roll more gunships then the other team? That might be the best answer to fights like these, but I don't think you can call it the best solution to the overall problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MystbladeWA Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I actually dont find Bombers that much of a hassle in TDM. They are slow moving targets with no evasion and little cover to hide behind. Where i find them annoying, and will sometimes get a slight sense of futility, is if i see something similar to this in a Domination match. 9/10 the team with the most bombers wins it seems to be, at least that seems to be the case on Harbringer during the hours that I play. I'm sure not enough people are taking or employing EMP weaponry. I'm upgrading that on my Pike atm to see if it makes a difference of any significance or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verain Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) I don't even know what the QQ is about. Is it because your copilot ability is hydrospanner? Because you can change that by picking any of the GOOD ones. Fun fact: Suppression, used with any amount of smarts, will result in you living longer than Hydrospanner. Not that I recommend that, unless you like Lord Scourge a lot. On your imp, notice that Scorpio can provide that debuff, and her voice is distilled sex essence over whiskey with a hint of burst laser. Edited March 12, 2014 by Verain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaskar Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Do you people not know what emp and ion are for? All bombers or gs on a team... even a pug from pot5 would simply destroy a team trying this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Applejacxs Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I understand what your saying op. But can you blame them? This obviously a effective formula to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgrid Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I don't even know what the QQ is about. Is it because your copilot ability is hydrospanner? Because you can change that by picking any of the GOOD ones. Fun fact: Suppression, used with any amount of smarts, will result in you living longer than Hydrospanner. Not that I recommend that, unless you like Lord Scourge a lot. On your imp, notice that Scorpio can provide that debuff, and her voice is distilled sex essence over whiskey with a hint of burst laser. ...brb unlocking SCORPIO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattycutts Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 curious why no screen shot of the results? im guessing... A - you actually won B - u were too scared to try and quit b4 match started putting your team a man down at start. so many games seen make ups like that and for damn sure we pushed the buggers back, worse game I saw populated with experienced bombers and gunships, we all died, guess what we didn't rez we waited and went out together, 1 bomber, 1 gunship against 8/12 players no match. I hate quitters almost as much as spawn campers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgrid Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I don't even know what the QQ is about. Is it because your copilot ability is hydrospanner? Because you can change that by picking any of the GOOD ones. Fun fact: Suppression, used with any amount of smarts, will result in you living longer than Hydrospanner. Not that I recommend that, unless you like Lord Scourge a lot. On your imp, notice that Scorpio can provide that debuff, and her voice is distilled sex essence over whiskey with a hint of burst laser. My god... You were right about her voice. It might be even better than Brontes' voice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malox Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 actually it makes perfect sense... With some people saying "you have 3 spawn-points" like that's the answer... Well, what are you gonna do when you have all gunships and bombers spawn-camping all 3 of your spawn-points, bombers laying bombs and drones on your spawn-points and gunships sniping the leftovers from afar, no matter where you spawn... All it takes is 3 gunships and the rest bombers to lock down another team completely... "get in your own gunship and snipe the bombers" you say? Good luck getting a target locked in the less than 1 second between spawning and being blown away by concentrated drones and sniper shots... Anyone that does not see this are choosing not to see it... nailed it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itkovian Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I understand what your saying op. But can you blame them? This obviously a effective formula to win. And that would be the issue that needs to be corrected. The best formula should be one where all roles have their place... whenever the meta devolves into a side spamming 1 or 2 roles, then there's a balancing issue that needs to be rectified. Just like when scouts ruled supreme before 2.6. That said, as I wrote, I'm not sure how much of this is due to Strikes being under appreciated but the better pilots. They shine quite well vs bombers and gunships (though not when you're the only one brave enough to go in and get your hands dirty... or when the gunships know you well enough to focus you like mad ). I'd love nothing much than leading a flight of strikes against these things, with gunships and scouts backing me up (scouts can go hunt down the gunsihps as they barrel roll away). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malox Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 And that would be the issue that needs to be corrected. The best formula should be one where all roles have their place... whenever the meta devolves into a side spamming 1 or 2 roles, then there's a balancing issue that needs to be rectified. Just like when scouts ruled supreme before 2.6. That said, as I wrote, I'm not sure how much of this is due to Strikes being under appreciated but the better pilots. They shine quite well vs bombers and gunships (though not when you're the only one brave enough to go in and get your hands dirty... or when the gunships know you well enough to focus you like mad ). I'd love nothing much than leading a flight of strikes against these things, with gunships and scouts backing me up (scouts can go hunt down the gunsihps as they barrel roll away). When they come out with the new GSF battleground in 2.7 they need to make sure that the capital ships fireing at eachother can hit players too if you move into the way of a shot. And make it so players can only fight there not in some safe corner. Make it challenging...its what is missing from GSF....not only are other players a danger but so is the environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin_Kelvar Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 So ultimately the issue is that role diversity should be encouraged, and there should be a drawback to loading nothing but bombers and gunships. It may be that the real problem is that Strike Fighters aren't popular enough... if more people understood just how wonderful they were against bombers while still doing well against scouts and gunships, we might see more diversity. Itkovian I love flying striker but I'd guess that they got a bad rap from pre-2.6 days where scouts could do everything a striker could do equally well or better. I am seeing more strikers in games these days on JC but I still kinda feel that a lot of pilots haven't figured out how to tap the potential of strikers. At any rate it certainly seems that many pilots still haven't figured out that post-2.6 the roles are much more defined and you can't really fly a Type 2 scout like a strike fighter any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToMyMa Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 nailed it Nope. The team you're on must be really incompetent if you can get locked down at ALL THREE SPAWNS. Last time I checked 2/3/4 ships weren't more than 8/12 ships. You outnumber if you coordinate your spawning, and you'll easily be able to outgun your opponents. Of course, this is a scenario where your team mates aren't exactly idiots. The contrary, actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elly_Dawn Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 when you're on Imperial side JC then it is quite likely to happen... especially since there is no coordination amongst Imperials aside from the rare occasional 2 or 4 man group on VoIP... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishihadaname Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 I'm on JC too, and I also mainly fly imp side. Its not that bad until the pubs start rolling premades, then its really bad and I go do something else until the pubs are done flying with one hand (if you catch my meaning) and we can get back to games with actual competition. Alternatively, if you're up against the pub premaders (and you know who i'm talking about i'm sure) during prime time just drop that match, wait 30s, and reque. If there is a second wave of games going you'll get into that rotation and avoid the premade. Doesn't work when they are super queing or there are just a whole ton of them but its better than getting farmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costello Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Those are more balanced sides that I normally see. Imagine if one side was almost all 2 ship pilots (the basic two) and the other side was all bombers and gunships. Both cap ships on the trainee side are minded and camped and that's what some matches in GSF is turning into. If I was new to it I wouldn't want to come back to be one shoted or drone killed as I respawn either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Those are more balanced sides that I normally see. Imagine if one side was almost all 2 ship pilots (the basic two) and the other side was all bombers and gunships. Both cap ships on the trainee side are minded and camped and that's what some matches in GSF is turning into. If I was new to it I wouldn't want to come back to be one shoted or drone killed as I respawn either. I have only ever seen two matches where one side is all f2p and the other side is all vets.' geez confirmation bias is rampant on these forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiVaN_ Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 (edited) actually it makes perfect sense... with some people saying "you have 3 spawn-points" like that's the answer... well, what are you gonna do when you have all Gunships and Bombers spawn-camping all 3 of your spawn-points, bombers laying bombs and drones on your spawn-points and gunships sniping the leftovers from afar, no matter where you spawn... all it takes is 3 Gunships and the rest Bombers to lock down another team completely... "get in your own Gunship and snipe the bombers" you say? good luck getting a target locked in the less than 1 second between spawning and being blown away by concentrated drones and sniper shots... anyone that does not see this are choosing not to see it... Or when the other team is in a mix of gunships and bombers, back against the middle asteroid and everyone is watching each other's backs. You can't get close enough to do any damage to them... Do you people not know what emp and ion are for? All bombers or gs on a team... even a pug from pot5 would simply destroy a team trying this. I play on POT5 as well as JC. I can honestly say there are different strat's and play styles on each servers. POT5 tends to be more dogfighting and less snipe festing. The scouts do their job and chase down the enemy gunships and the strikes seem to understand that they need to take out the bombers. I have never had a match on POT5 where the entire enemy team rallied around an asteroid and just sat there and hunkered down with gunships and bombers. When that happens you are stuck at about 10k-11k meters as the "kill box" which means that Strikes and Scouts are useless. The idea of "just get on your gunship" or "fight fire with fire" is fine when you have a team full of folks who have spent comms on their gunships, or even have gunships. if you have a team of randoms, snipe-fests are gonna be extremely one sided. I'm not asking for anything to be nerfed or changed, I would just like for a dev to be on the "wrong side" of one of these kind of matches. I want them to take a look at the tactic and see if it is AMAZINGLY successful because ALL of the Imp players on JC are really that well coordinated and that good or because something is broke. I'm on JC too, and I also mainly fly imp side. Its not that bad until the pubs start rolling premades, then its really bad and I go do something else until the pubs are done flying with one hand (if you catch my meaning) and we can get back to games with actual competition. Alternatively, if you're up against the pub premaders (and you know who i'm talking about i'm sure) during prime time just drop that match, wait 30s, and reque. If there is a second wave of games going you'll get into that rotation and avoid the premade. Doesn't work when they are super queing or there are just a whole ton of them but its better than getting farmed. I play with 1 -3 guildmates (JC, Pub-side) every night does that make us an evil premade? Isn't playing along side friends what an MMO is all about? I que solo a lot more often then I play with my guildmates, does that make me less evil? Edited March 14, 2014 by RiVaN_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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