2.7.1: Make Ranked Season 2 Popular

[Evolixe]

Not only will this not fix anything, it will do more harm than good.

 

People aren't interested in 4v4. Not because of a lack of competition, but because they don't stand a chance there anyway. The PvP community is small. Even if everyone in it that is remotely half decent would do 4s you would still never exceed 15 teams queueing at any one time.

[Vodrin]

Not only will this not fix anything, it will do more harm than good.

 

People aren't interested in 4v4. Not because of a lack of competition, but because they don't stand a chance there anyway. The PvP community is small. Even if everyone in it that is remotely half decent would do 4s you would still never exceed 15 teams queueing at any one time.

 

This is the real problem. I understand what Cash is getting at with suggesting to remove the solo queue, but I don't think it will accomplish what he hopes it will. When ranked first went live there were all kinds of players queuing up for those 8v8 group only warzones. The queues quickly thinned out though as the elite teams steamrolled any lower quality teams and all but the elite quickly went back to regular warzones.

 

I fear we would see something very similar with this sort of change. Most PvP players would simply be content to play regs and stay in T1 PvP gear or would simply quit the game. Very few players have the intestinal fortitude to "take there lumps" and improve enough to take on the better established teams, regardless of what mechanisms you put in place to allow them to practice without affecting their rating.

[AngusFTW]

Bioware, Im sure you noticed the surge in players participating in Ranked after you announced the Season 1 Rewards. Here is what I propose for Season 2, to see that the population at least stays the same as currently, if not increases further.

 

1. Removed Solo Arenas as a Ranked gametype.

• Solo Arenas are now a Regular WZ gametype
  
• They reward Regular WZ comms
  
• Queuing for Reg Solo Arenas will put you only in Arenas, but the Reg WZ queue can still put you in both WZ and Arenas.
  

2. Create a 'Skirmish' mode for Group Ranked.

• Allow teams to challenge each other, with no rewards of any kind at stake
  
• This will allow for teams to practice, player created tournaments, etc
  

3. Announce the end of season rewards at the start of Season 2. You can announce the % brackets that will break up the tiers so players can use the leaderboard to track their reward status.

 

 

The end result should be more people queuing for 4s, which is good for everyone.

They should scrap the current ranking system altogether IMO. Not a big enough population for it to be effective. They should do your second option to allow for community organised events. (AND enable it for 8v8) Then instead of the current system, run regular tournaments and leagues with unique awards for winners.. hell even get some cross server events on a server like pts or something... That is what i think would be best.. the current system would work.. if the game had like 100x the playerbase but its not very big anymore and the rating system is just not healthy for this...

Edited April 15, 2014 by AngusFTW

[cashogy_reborn]

This is the real problem. I understand what Cash is getting at with suggesting to remove the solo queue, but I don't think it will accomplish what he hopes it will. When ranked first went live there were all kinds of players queuing up for those 8v8 group only warzones. The queues quickly thinned out though as the elite teams steamrolled any lower quality teams and all but the elite quickly went back to regular warzones.

 

I fear we would see something very similar with this sort of change. Most PvP players would simply be content to play regs and stay in T1 PvP gear or would simply quit the game. Very few players have the intestinal fortitude to "take there lumps" and improve enough to take on the better established teams, regardless of what mechanisms you put in place to allow them to practice without affecting their rating.

 

What happened with 8v8 happened b/c there was no ELO matchmaking. There is allegedly ELO matchmaking in Group Ranked now, but we really have no idea b/c it has never had the chance to actually work. You cant have matchmaking with <5 teams in the queue max.

 

Exilove, you say that 15 teams queuing at one time isnt worth it? LOLWUT?

Pot5 has 3-5 queuing max right now. I cant imagine it is much better (if its even better) on other PvP servers. If there were 15 teams queuing the ELO matchmaker would actually have a chance to do something and start matching teams of similar skill level together.

[Vodrin]

What happened with 8v8 happened b/c there was no ELO matchmaking. There is allegedly ELO matchmaking in Group Ranked now, but we really have no idea b/c it has never had the chance to actually work. You cant have matchmaking with <5 teams in the queue max.

 

Exilove, you say that 15 teams queuing at one time isnt worth it? LOLWUT?

Pot5 has 3-5 queuing max right now. I cant imagine it is much better (if its even better) on other PvP servers. If there were 15 teams queuing the ELO matchmaker would actually have a chance to do something and start matching teams of similar skill level together.

 

The problem cash is that 15 teams would be a best case with cross server and a big sales pitch by BW. 15 is not nearly enough to make ELO matter as we would be lucky to have 10 in the queue at the same time, and then you end up with maybe three or four teams that will continue to queue. Basically what you have now.

 

I'm not sure what the real solution is, but the primary problem is that most players do not want competitive PvP. They want to be matched against players of even ability with an appropriate distribution of classes. They do not want to face the best and take them on. Unless that changes I don't see how you greatly increase ranked participation.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Vodrin

[cashogy_reborn]

The problem cash is that 15 teams would be a best case with cross server and a big sales pitch by BW. 15 is not nearly enough to make ELO matter as we would be lucky to have 10 in the queue at the same time, and then you end up with maybe three or four teams that will continue to queue. Basically what you have now.

I'm not sure what the real solution is, but the primary problem is that most players do not want competitive PvP. They want to be matched against players of even ability with an appropriate distribution of classes. They do not want to face the best and take them on. Unless that changes I don't see how you greatly increase ranked participation.

 

Thats the root of the problem for sure. It doesnt help that the majority of competitive PvPers have already been driven away and likely wont be returning ever.

[mrekxxx]

problem is ppl can buy ranked comms ... ranked comms might be available only for grp ranked players .... and ppl who do play only normal wzs would max. their obroan /atm/ gear and no chance to get brutalizer ...

 

grp ranked pool would be much larger i guess, a lot of spam on general chat, for example tank is looking for ranked team etc ...

 

 

 

english is my third language

Edited April 15, 2014 by mrekxxx

[Evolixe]

Exilove, you say that 15 teams queuing at one time isnt worth it? LOLWUT?

 

Are you saying that it is? 15 teams at primetime is an absolute joke.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Evolixe

[cashogy_reborn]

Are you saying that it is? 15 teams at primetime is an absolute joke.

 

You are aware that that would be 3-5 times the number of teams queuing now......

 

15 teams on a single server would be a healthy ranked scene at this point. I highly doubt there are 15 teams total across all severs.

 

You say its an absolute joke, but we havent had 15 teams queuing simultaneously for Ranked since shortly after 8v8 came out.

Edited April 15, 2014 by cashogy_reborn

[xxSHOONYxx]

At least from my experiences on a non-PvP server, there are only 3-4 teams in ranked group MAX. Taking away solo ranked would kill off ranked PvP entirely except for those 3-4 teams. One new team may emerge, but several more players will simply give up ranked.

As for removing the option of exchanging comms for ranked comms, more than likely you'd have people just be content with their unranked gear, and stick to regs. At least on my server there's simply not the population to do either of these things -- I don't know about other servers.

 

In general if the only options are to get facerolled until you get better, or quit, most people will quit. Nothing you, I, or Bioware can do about that.

[Evolixe]

You are aware that that would be 3-5 times the number of teams queuing now......

 

15 teams on a single server would be a healthy ranked scene at this point. I highly doubt there are 15 teams total across all severs.

 

You say its an absolute joke, but we havent had 15 teams queuing simultaneously for Ranked since shortly after 8v8 came out.

 

Who cares about what it is like now, a healthy scene would require over 500 active teams per server. 15 is nothing.

[Jadescythe]

There really isn't a reason to remove solo ranked and the reason why is obvious. The only people doing solo ranked are either:

 

- Not good, so no one wants to do 4s with them

- Don't desire to devote time to having a team or have random play schedules, so prefer to just queue solo whenever

- Are just doing it for quick ranked comms

- Don't have their team on and wish to do ranked

 

None of these groups are going to join the ranked 4s queue. The most you might get are the people just doing it for quick ranked comms and none of them will be serious. I'm not sure removal of solo ranked will be a motivator for people to randomly start doing 4s.

[Haystak]

4v4 blows balls because tank/healer combos are the rockstars of group ranked. A great deal of players exclusively enjoy being dps. When half the player base needs to be either a healer or a tank, you force a lot of people to either exclude ranked from there plans, or adapt and become a healer or a tank. As we can see, no one wants to play a tank, or cant play a decent pvp tank to save there lives, most people just say **** it, and move on to something else.

 

Solo Que is successfull because more often than not, there are no tanks, or healers, and you happen to get one going against you, 99% of the time there will be one on your team as well. You can que up for solo que without fear of being without a healer, while your team faces an unfair advantage of going against one. Yolo works because it caters to an obscene amount of dps players who usually que up.

 

Now for the record im not saying nerf tanking or healer, or buff dps, but i will say this.

 

The OPs plan will only hurt pvp, not help it. theres a reason why people dont play ranked. Because ITS NOT *********** FUN for most people to play 4v4 tank healer taunt and gaurd fest.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Haystak

[MusicRider]

Bioware, Im sure you noticed the surge in players participating in Ranked after you announced the Season 1 Rewards. Here is what I propose for Season 2, to see that the population at least stays the same as currently, if not increases further.

 

1. Removed Solo Arenas as a Ranked gametype.

• Solo Arenas are now a Regular WZ gametype
  
• They reward Regular WZ comms
  
• Queuing for Reg Solo Arenas will put you only in Arenas, but the Reg WZ queue can still put you in both WZ and Arenas.
  

The end result should be more people queuing for 4s, which is good for everyone.

 

That's probably the worst idea I have heard since the removal of 8v8 warzones as ranked.... If you have ever done TEAM ranked you will know it needs time and commitment for a team to get to know each other and play as a team.

 

Back then I had a bit more time to dedicate and play regularly in a team, now I don't. Schedule is busy, I may play a few games or sometimes not at all. I wouldn't expect my guildmates to reserve me a place for whenever I am royaly available. By removing solo-q ranked, regardless of its yolo deficiencies it is still fun, so you might as well ask me to unsub. And I may not be the only one in this situation. Plain terrible idea.

Edited April 15, 2014 by MusicRider

[Savej]

Just add a dly quest/reward and more people will q for rated arenas more regularly.

Don't make ranked 4v4-only: i'm sure some want that but i strongly suspect they are the minority.

 

Also, we need more/faster/better balance updates

[cashogy_reborn]

Who cares about what it is like now, a healthy scene would require over 500 active teams per server. 15 is nothing.

 

You are on some serious drugs.

[Evolixe]

You are on some serious drugs.

 

You have never played a game with a healthy playerbase if you think that 15 teams would suffice for a proper scene.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Evolixe

[cashogy_reborn]

You have never played a game with a healthy playerbase if you think that 15 teams would suffice for a proper scene.

 

Not sure how that is relevant to this game tho......

 

I am assuming you are talking about WoW, which I have never played. But how many more subscribers does WoW have? Their population is exceptionally greater than SWTOR's population.

 

500 teams would be at least 2,000 individual players. I doubt that there are that many total players in Regs on a server.

[Evolixe]

Not sure how that is relevant to this game tho......

 

I am assuming you are talking about WoW, which I have never played. But how many more subscribers does WoW have? Their population is exceptionally greater than SWTOR's population.

 

500 teams would be at least 2,000 individual players. I doubt that there are that many total players in Regs on a server.

 

Which is exactly my point.

[Jadescythe]

You have never played a game with a healthy playerbase if you think that 15 teams would suffice for a proper scene.

 

15 teams would give you a big enough pool to have mostly balanced matchups. 25 or 50 would be much better, but you certainly do not need 500 to have ranked be successful.

[Evolixe]

15 teams would give you a big enough pool to have mostly balanced matchups. 25 or 50 would be much better, but you certainly do not need 500 to have ranked be successful.

 

15 for balanced matchups? Don't kid yourself. That's hardly enough to make matchups in a 30% relative skill difference range.

 

50 would still be far too low. 500 is kind of a bare minimum, in fact still too low.. but it would work well enough.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Evolixe

[SlightlySychotic]

Sweet merciful crap, he's still trying to defend this abortion of lunacy and idiocy . . .

 

Tell you what, I'll concede getting rid of solo ranked matches on one conditions: pre-mades will forever be barred from the general queue. Period, no exceptions, no future changes can bring them back. You also can't get be matched with someone who is on your friends list or in your guild. To prevent exploitation, you also can't be matched with anyone who has been in either category for the last thirty days. Any player found using a chat server during a PvP match is to be permanently banned. Also, players can now earned ranked tokens and rewards from general queue matches. Only better. Shinier.

 

Now, did I mean a word of what I just said? Of course not. Why? Because it's absurd. Premades have every right to play in the general queue. You don't disenfranchise an entire segment of the population because . . . well, because frakking period. But that's exactly what you're demanding.

 

Also, again, it failed before and will fail again. The ELO doesn't change that; it potentially makes it worse, in fact.

 

This is now and always has been a horrible idea. How many people need to call you out on it before you realize that it's indefensible? LET THIS **** GO.

[cashogy_reborn]

Sweet merciful crap, he's still trying to defend this abortion of lunacy and idiocy . . .

 

Tell you what, I'll concede getting rid of solo ranked matches on one conditions: pre-mades will forever be barred from the general queue. Period, no exceptions, no future changes can bring them back. You also can't get be matched with someone who is on your friends list or in your guild. To prevent exploitation, you also can't be matched with anyone who has been in either category for the last thirty days. Any player found using a chat server during a PvP match is to be permanently banned. Also, players can now earned ranked tokens and rewards from general queue matches. Only better. Shinier.

 

Now, did I mean a word of what I just said? Of course not. Why? Because it's absurd. Premades have every right to play in the general queue. You don't disenfranchise an entire segment of the population because . . . well, because frakking period. But that's exactly what you're demanding.

 

Also, again, it failed before and will fail again. The ELO doesn't change that; it potentially makes it worse, in fact.

 

This is now and always has been a horrible idea. How many people need to call you out on it before you realize that it's indefensible? LET THIS **** GO.

 

I didn't necro this, and I don't care to defend it anymore. Competitive PvP is dead, and the majority of people left will fight tooth and nail to keep this game super casual.

[Transcendent]

Group Ranked matchmaking doesnt work b/c nobody does it. Everyone takes the path of least resistance to the next tier of gear, which is grinding out Solo Ranked.

 

Remove Solo Ranked, make Group Ranked the only place you can get RWZ comms. More people will do them, and the matchmaking will actually mean something.

 

Solo is not more fun than Group, unless you are a masochist.

 

Normally I tend to agree with a lot of what you are saying. On this occasion I don't.

 

I'm happy to play normal warzones both as a pug and in a group, and when properly geared on a toon i'm fairly content in playing solo ranked as a good alternative. In the case of group ranked? Wouldn't touch it. Likely never will either. It's the same reason why i'd prefer to pug an OP, time restraints and other commitments. Hopping in to a couple of solo ranked isn't an issue, committing the time to get a good group together for ranked isn't always a good option.

 

So removing solo ranked or enforcing group ranked and the only place to get RWZ comms, would likely make me concentrate entirely on PVE and likely to never PVP in SWTOR again. I'm only speaking for myself, but i'm sure you can potentially see the downside to your line of thought in terms of player base shrinking further.

 

There are times when solo ranked is a complete atrocity, but that's for other reasons (cough poor class compositions cough). In the case of keeping solo ranked, there are some really good cases for doing so, much more than removing it.

[cashogy_reborn]

Normally I tend to agree with a lot of what you are saying. On this occasion I don't.

 

I'm happy to play normal warzones both as a pug and in a group, and when properly geared on a toon i'm fairly content in playing solo ranked as a good alternative. In the case of group ranked? Wouldn't touch it. Likely never will either. It's the same reason why i'd prefer to pug an OP, time restraints and other commitments. Hopping in to a couple of solo ranked isn't an issue, committing the time to get a good group together for ranked isn't always a good option.

 

So removing solo ranked or enforcing group ranked and the only place to get RWZ comms, would likely make me concentrate entirely on PVE and likely to never PVP in SWTOR again. I'm only speaking for myself, but i'm sure you can potentially see the downside to your line of thought in terms of player base shrinking further.

 

There are times when solo ranked is a complete atrocity, but that's for other reasons (cough poor class compositions cough). In the case of keeping solo ranked, there are some really good cases for doing so, much more than removing it.

 

You are a casual. Generally speaking ranked is not for casuals.

 

Convenience < quality of competition