Changes to Bolster in 2.7

[L-RANDLE]

What fight? How exactly are you holding anyone accountable for anything? BW is still releasing a new tier of gear giving us a pointless grind. Everything you did led to nothing more than extending our grind. BW is not going to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to completely overhaul the system they spent so much money to make just for a few small weapons glitches, nor do they owe us any answers for anything-it's in the ToS. If enough people don't like it, they leave. If enough people leave, then maybe BW will change something. It's business. BW's job isn't to make us happy, it's to keep us playing and extending our subscriptions for as long as it can, using any means possible.

 

The bolster stuff was minor, very minor, but it was costing BW valuable grind time from us since weapons take the longest to grind, that's why they came up with this dirty fix instead of something solid. Either way, you all got exactly what you wanted and yet you are still QQing. If not for all your "help" we would still be able to skip the weapons grind, but not anymore. You were QQing for a nice long grind for PvP gear and you got it. Be happy and stop whining.

 

When did I ever say I wanted a grind? You are still doing the same **** in 2.7 that you are doing now. So you think this is punishment for you since your grind has been "extended" and you are not pissed at them, but at me for calling them out for wasting time on needless gear grinds AT ALL?

 

Yes, I fight for you too Bracer. As much as you frustrate the hell out of me, my end goal is simple. Make PvP enjoyable for everyone, and have a clear progression path. Not this convoluted system where we are constantly in a rat race...

[sithBracer]

When did I ever say I wanted a grind? You are still doing the same **** in 2.7 that you are doing now. So you think this is punishment for you since your grind has been "extended" and you are not pissed at them, but at me for calling them out for wasting time on needless gear grinds AT ALL?

 

You said you wanted it the moment you explained the entire process of how to avoid the grind to them with pictures. It's an MMO, if you honestly weren't expecting another gear grind ... well I have no idea how to explain it to you. They were more than willing to ignore the exploit until you stepped in and gave them exact documentation.

 

I don't know what you were expecting honestly, but just accept the fact that they are not going to overhaul their huge system just because you don't like to grind. They will continue releasing new tiers of gear as long as people will grind for it. This is how MMOs keep subscribers. It's a lazy way, but so far it has been working.

 

The exploit was the only way for us to circumvent it. It's gone, as you all wanted, so enjoy the grind and stop QQing.

[L-RANDLE]

You said you wanted it the moment you explained the entire process of how to avoid the grind to them with pictures. It's an MMO, if you honestly weren't expecting another gear grind ... well I have no idea how to explain it to you. They were more than willing to ignore the exploit until you stepped in and gave them exact documentation.

 

I don't know what you were expecting honestly, but just accept the fact that they are not going to overhaul their huge system just because you don't like to grind. They will continue releasing new tiers of gear as long as people will grind for it. This is how MMOs keep subscribers. It's a lazy way, but so far it has been working.

 

The exploit was the only way for us to circumvent it. It's gone, as you all wanted, so enjoy the grind and stop QQing.

So you rather exploit than fix the damn problem? Do you even understand why I posted my info? Apparently not or you rather cheat.

 

Besides all that you still don't need a lick of PvP gear to be viable, even with the fixes! Nothing has changed. It's a useless grind and you go from being BiS one day to being third best or worst, the next. It's not how to keep subscribers, that much should be obvious by now..

[sithBracer]

So you rather exploit than fix the damn problem? Do you even understand why I posted my info? Apparently not or you rather cheat.

 

Of course I would rather fix the problem, but you have to face reality and realize BW is just not going to do it. Not this year at least. Maybe they will next year with their expansion pack, but I'm gonna be a realist and say they will just raise the level cap and introduce new gear.

 

Besides all that you still don't need a lick of PvP gear to be viable, even with the fixes! Nothing has changed. It's a useless grind and you go from being BiS one day to being third best or worst, the next. It's not how to keep subscribers, that much should be obvious by now..

 

Something has changed, we're going to have to grind out weapons for all our characters again, when it could've been avoided. So yeah, thanks for that.

[DanNV]

(snip) It's a useless grind and you go from being BiS one day to being third best or worst, the next. It's not how to keep subscribers, that much should be obvious by now..

 

You'd think it would be obvious, but some idiot in charge can't figure it out.

[DanNV]

Well, that's all I've been doing anyway. Min/Max Obroan in some Legacy gear, pass it between two mirror ACs. Just grind the earpiece, implants, relics and offhand for each toon beyond that. Only min/maxed Obroan once.

 

Don't worry though. By the time you min/max your Ultra-Obroan, or whatever the new gear is going to be called, players will have figured out the new 2.7 Bolster exploit and you can then just equip your Alts in equivalent/better PvE gear.

 

I was actually doing a handful of characters in PVP just to play different classes. But now I have a scoundrel who won't be worth much and a Shadow that have more than a piece or two of PVP gear. The shadow is still mostly Conq gear. Neither was even close to min/maxing since I'm one of the casual players people here hate. However, we're the players that shorten the queue times. So, I'll be doing a lot less PVP, and I expect others will, too, so that'll mean the queue times will go back up to where they used to be (if you're lucky.)

 

I have not yet had a character with full upper end PVP gear and I've been playing since just after launch. I just don't play full time. I do dailies with my wife and a guildie or two. I level a new character from time to time to do the story. I PVP from time to time and had just gotten a guildie into doing it (he does not have a high opinion of PVP or the PVP community) but I expect he'll drop out. One thing he hates is grinding for pointless gear and we'll be doing that with 2.8 on everyone we do dailies with, too, since these idiots are doing a new tier of gear there, too. Makes going back to reading in the evening look better and better.

[Savej]

I don't care about grinds. I have a bunch of comms saved up on two servers and will easily have enough on 4/4 if i want to. I do care when pvp gear gets trumped by 45s. Heck, i also care when one of my lowbies has 49s and he's trumped by higher levels wearing 45s. Not only is it counterintuitive and counter-mmo-doctrine, but it's embarrassingly sloppy... I can't explain it to newbies or friends that don't play using anything resembling a straight face. I had to heavily edit this post and removed most of it.

[Ottoattack]

I am extremely disappointed in the changes to bolster and gear to the point I am considering unsubbing. First, I am not against PvP weapons being BiS, but I expected that to be done in a way that does not punish current players. For example all my toons are using PvE 195 format weapons. When 2.7 hit live I will have to reinvest in weapons for every single 55 toon I have and save enough comms for new relics. Second, the gear grind... you know, it's not fun, but every time there was a tier increase we knew at least 2 month in advance (at least since 2.0 hit live) to save comms. I do not have the time and the patience to run PvP over and over within a month to have the comms ready to buy the top tier PvP weapons and relics. That is not interesting at all.

 

Third, if you were using power crystals for their cosmetic look. Guess what? You will have to spend 2-3 million credits to get the expertise ones if you want to use them in PvP. So what happens when you change stuff overnight. For someone who has 8 lvl 55s there is no way I am going to grind the equivalent of 10 million credits to change the looks on half of my toons.

 

Finally, this actually does the exact of what the bolster is supposed to do. Reduce the gear gap. Now PvE gear is automatically at 82 expertise advantage off the bate, then your gear will lose additional expertise. You are a PvEer who likes to PvP casually? Well, you just lost 3-4% before your gear level comes to play.

 

So ya, all BW needed to do is make the bolster read expertise crystals as if they are power crystals. Simple solution that would have made the transition relatively easy, but no... You go from BiS on 4/7/14 to semi useless in 4/8/14, cuz the devs are so lazy. Want further proof how lazy they are, the changed the jugg/guardian aoe taunt in PvE to a threat drop. So your threat increase skill works now as a threat. Even conceptually it is a dumb idea. How hard is it to just copy the skill from 4 other AC that have it? Lazy, uninspired.

Edited March 4, 2014 by Ottoattack

[Baalzamon]

Only pvers want gear grinds its obvious who they cater to even in pvp.

[DanNV]

Only pvers want gear grinds its obvious who they cater to even in pvp.

 

Here you're wrong. A lot of PVE players don't like gear grinds for no reason either. I do WAY more PVE than PVP and I can't stand pointless gear grinds. New gear with a new level cap, ok. But new gear because some dev is too lazy or too incompetent to design anything else drives me nuts.

[Ren_simp]

I am extremely disappointed in the changes to bolster and gear to the point I am considering unsubbing. First, I am not against PvP weapons being BiS, but I expected that to be done in a way that does not punish current players. For example all my toons are using PvE 195 format weapons. When 2.7 hit live I will have to reinvest in weapons for every single 55 toon I have and save enough comms for new relics. Second, the gear grind... you know, it's not fun, but every time there was a tier increase we knew at least 2 month in advance (at least since 2.0 hit live) to save comms. I do not have the time and the patience to run PvP over and over within a month to have the comms ready to buy the top tier PvP weapons and relics. That is not interesting at all.

 

Third, if you were using power crystals for their cosmetic look. Guess what? You will have to spend 2-3 million credits to get the expertise ones if you want to use them in PvP. So what happens when you change stuff overnight. For someone who has 8 lvl 55s there is no way I am going to grind the equivalent of 10 million credits to change the looks on half of my toons.

 

Finally, this actually does the exact of what the bolster is supposed to do. Reduce the gear gap. Now PvE gear is automatically at 82 expertise advantage off the bate, then your gear will lose additional expertise. You are a PvEer who likes to PvP casually? Well, you just lost 3-4% before your gear level comes to play.

 

So ya, all BW needed to do is make the bolster read expertise crystals as if they are power crystals. Simple solution that would have made the transition relatively easy, but no... You go from BiS on 4/7/14 to semi useless in 4/8/14, cuz the devs are so lazy. Want further proof how lazy they are, the changed the jugg/guardian aoe taunt in PvE to a threat drop. So your threat increase skill works now as a threat. Even conceptually it is a dumb idea. How hard is it to just copy the skill from 4 other AC that have it? Lazy, uninspired.

 

 

So What did you do with the coms you didn't need to spend by using pve weapons I have no sympathy

Sure using the pve setup is plenty viable but you're kidding yourself if you thought you Would never have to purchase obroan weapons eventually

 

As for the bolster changes yay for vigilance.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Ren_simp

[AngusFTW]

Unless something major has changed the weapons aren't that big of an upgrade since they all get bolstered to max lvl pve weapon in wz anyway... So really its just a stat stick like your armor pieces..

 

BTW i spent the time to min/max my sentinel in the new gear here is a comparison on fleet of pts full min/max new gear (Sans 1 relic) vs live in full min/maxed obroan..

I would enter wz and compare but i can't be bothered.. its late xD

http://i.imgur.com/rH3omKR.jpg

and yes i don't have all crons i'm slacker.. ;_;

HP wise my sent is sitting at 32.6k on pts close to 33k should be attainable if i got rest of endurance datacrons maybe and get the 2nd relic...

Edited March 5, 2014 by AngusFTW

[eartharioch]

The concept of a new "gear grind" in 2.7 is laughable for most of us.

 

There is no level cap increase. Almost all PVE content (lvl 55 mobs in open world, FPs, and Events) is faceroll easy with current Elite (72P) gear bought with comms from running FPs. Adding a new tier of gear only helps high end raiders with the new NiM (which is how it is supposed to work).

 

If BW's changes improve Bolster as they plan, it will only cement *not grinding* as remaining viable in WZs because -- get this -- there is no PVP grind with Bolster. People don't PVP just to get max gear and quit because they have the best gear and there is nothing else, people PVP because they like it. With Bolster, there is a small enough gear gap that anybody who wants to enjoy PVP can, and as a byproduct, will get comms to buy slightly better gear in order to min/max their chars exactly the way they want.

 

Personally, I think that with the next major (level-cap-increasing) expansion, BW should merge PVP gear back into PVE gear. Get rid of Expertise and make sure that both PVE Comms (Basic/Elite/Ultra/Uber/Whatever) and PVP comms can buy the same gear so that PVE's and PVPers always meet on the same terms regardless of how players allocate their time (100% PVE, 100% PVP , or preferably, some mixture). Then make Operations gear so that it only gives extra bonuses in operations (and then devs could separate SM/HM/NiM operations bonuses to force new raiders to have to start at least at the bottom (SM) of the current operations and preserve the expected PVE progression).

 

However, there was no way that could be done for 2.7 (or, IMO, any mid-expansion patch). As long as the new Tier preserves the status quo and doesn't let new people walk in and get better gear than the current veterans without putting in any effort, we can handle another (useless) gear set. But it would be nice to see the devs comment about merging PVE and PVP so that we only ever have *one* set of gear tiers at a time.

[JediMasterSLC]

all my toons are using PvE 195 format weapons. When 2.7 hit live I will have to reinvest in weapons for every single 55 toon I have and save enough comms for new relics.

 

You should've been honorable like me and refused to ever bolster bug. Serves your exploiters right.

Edited March 5, 2014 by JediMasterSLC

[ODTONE]

no change to the crappy resolve sytem? Edited March 5, 2014 by ODTONE

[KiTaZ]

Why is there a new tier of PVP gear when you were asked by your customers not to make one?

 

This is the last day of my sub and I will never be renewing due to this and various other things.

 

But when there is a giant thread on your front page that you INTENTIONALLY ignore because you KNOW FOR AN ABSOLUTE FACT that you are doing the opposite of what your customers what, I can no longer support you.

 

 

Doesnt mean all the customers.. I want a new teir of gear, I just dont make any noise on the forums about it. If you only look at a thread meant for everyone who doesnt want new pvp gear.. all you're gonna find it people who dont want new pvp gear. I wouldnt in any way say thats an accurate sample of the general population.

[CrazyOldMystic]

Hi Everyone!

 

While these changes are not currently on the PTS (they will be patched in at a later date), there are some changes coming to the Bolster system in Game Update 2.7 that I wanted to let you know about:

 

• Corrected an issue that would cause combinations of lower level mods (such as the popular 46 blue mods) and higher level color crystals (including those from the Cartel Market) to result in a higher Bolster bonus than intended.
  
• Corrected an issue that prevented weapon damage ranges from being properly Bolstered. This will result in an increase of damage coming from abilities that deal weapon damage.
  
• Bolster has been updated to account for the new tiers of gear, and now provides additional expertise to elder game PvE gear. Bolster still caps at a level slightly below Obroan gear.
  
• Characters who do not wield weapons with Expertise mods and crystals will now be capped at 1936 expertise (instead of the full 2018).
  

 

-tw

 

This seems a little unclear to me so ill break it down. If their is new tiers of pvp gear, which by the way I wish there was not, then Obroan becomes tier one. So does this mean that pve gear will now be bolsterd only to just below tier one when the new gear is added to the game?

[Macroeconomics]

Dps is the same but dr and health bonus no. So pvp gear 2.7 is the best way.

 

Until someone finds a new loophole. Which WILL happen. Even back before the 193 exploit or the blue 46 exploit or the purple crafted explot, people configured certain combinations of weapon gear so that their output was higher at the expense of dr. For many dps toons it was worth it. And now BW is raising the effectiveness of endgame pve gear in pvp. There will be plenty of combinations of pve gear that will be better than Berserker.

[Kingrami]

http://i.imgur.com/Zz8NrYF.jpg

 

lol!

[Beltane]

Speak for yourself if you'd like, I never claimed to speak for YOU and to pretend I did is just silly. I clearly said PvPers, not ALL PvPers, not EVERY PvPer...and I'm correct.

 

Your issue with being facerolled is probably due to your ability to play the game since there were 2 complete resets last year. A new tier of gear that makes you start again didn't seem to help you last time...why is this time different?

 

The other issue I have with your reply is that there's NOTHING earned in PvP since every piece of armor you acquire, needs to be traded in to get the newer highest tier gear. "Stuff" is what motivates players in MMOs. The pursuit of "stuff" can be called content, but "stuff" isn't limited to "gear" exclusively. Speeders, mounts, weapons, cosmetics, exclusives...all "stuff" that would be just as impactful as a new set of PvP gear. if you're limited in motivation to only gear, you must truly enjoy the CM.

You're right, I personally am so bad at the game that when I solo queue and get in a pug team, only to lose to a PVP guild running a premade match after match, my very presence causes my team to be unable to coordinate or take damage. My bad, I'll try to play better. I actually was wrong though. Most people in these leet PVP guilds are using the level 40-something mod exploit and not ranked gear. Maybe that exploit being fixed is the real reason there is so much QQ in this thread?

 

No, I don't think grinding for new gear will "fix" that issue and it's hardly even an issue in my mind. Premades happen--it's the way of the MMO PVP world. I'm not upset I lose to premades in the least. The only reason I brought that up is because of all the people saying how gear being reset will undo their progress and create a more even playing field which is just, like, so mean.

 

I just think the amount of crying over a gear reset is silly. There's nothing tragic about having a new tier of gear to work towards. The people who got to max gear quickly last time will get to max gear quickly this time. There's absolutely nothing unfair about it. Boring, maybe, but when I get bored of a facet of a game I just stop doing it rather than dramatically holding my subscription hostage to try to manipulate the devs.

 

In short, I enjoy warzones so I play warzones. Earning gear is a part of the warzone experience to me. If you think stats shouldn't have an effect on PVP, you are entitled to that opinion, but TOR has never been a statless game, so I don't see why it's suddenly a sticking point.

 

I do agree that it would be nice to see rewards you can buy with WZ comms besides just gear. I just don't think this is the crisis people are pretending it is.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Beltane

[Aetideus]

You're right, I personally am so bad at the game that when I solo queue and get in a pug team, only to lose to a PVP guild running a premade match after match, my very presence causes my team to be unable to coordinate or take damage. My bad, I'll try to play better. I actually was wrong though. Most people in these leet PVP guilds are using the level 40-something mod exploit and not ranked gear. Maybe that exploit being fixed is the real reason there is so much QQ in this thread?

 

No, I don't think grinding for new gear will "fix" that issue and it's hardly even an issue in my mind. Premades happen--it's the way of the MMO PVP world. I'm not upset I lose to premades in the least. The only reason I brought that up is because of all the people saying how gear being reset will undo their progress and create a more even playing field which is just, like, so mean.

 

I just think the amount of crying over a gear reset is silly. There's nothing tragic about having a new tier of gear to work towards. The people who got to max gear quickly last time will get to max gear quickly this time. There's absolutely nothing unfair about it. Boring, maybe, but when I get bored of a facet of a game I just stop doing it rather than dramatically holding my subscription hostage to try to manipulate the devs.

 

In short, I enjoy warzones so I play warzones. Earning gear is a part of the warzone experience to me. If you think stats shouldn't have an effect on PVP, you are entitled to that opinion, but TOR has never been a statless game, so I don't see why it's suddenly a sticking point.

 

I do agree that it would be nice to see rewards you can buy with WZ comms besides just gear. I just don't think this is the crisis people are pretending it is.

 

There no incentive doing this min/maxing again and again.

Obroan player a needs new gear because player b has.

Obroan player b needs new gear because player a has.

How about no new gear and let the people play? There is NO change at all.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Aetideus

[Rawael]

Why is there a new tier of PVP gear when you were asked by your customers not to make one?

 

This is the last day of my sub and I will never be renewing due to this and various other things.

 

But when there is a giant thread on your front page that you INTENTIONALLY ignore because you KNOW FOR AN ABSOLUTE FACT that you are doing the opposite of what your customers what, I can no longer support you.

 

Speak for yourself. If you want to quit for some reason, go ahead, I doubt a lot of people will miss you. But don't pretedn that you "know" what the majority wants. A lot of people, like me, are looking forward to a new tier of pvp gear.

[Nezyrworks]

People seems think that right now the problem in PVP is gear and failing to understand the basic problem of ranked and normal warzones: lack of competitiveness from about 97% people participating in PVP, and its divided and spread, between "leftover" servers, community, left with no possibility for cross srever ranked.

 

Noone sane with average skill will go against top PVP teams in ranked, because they simply can't win.

 

As soon as people realized the fact they were not getting rating to benefit from season 1 reward system, they just vanished and the situation came back to pre reward announcement situation.

 

Now the problem is existing on every single server (even pvp ones). The servers are to small to "host" enough good pvp teams for healthy rating matching, which results in games where 1700+ teams are facerolling 1100 rating teams.

 

Exact the same situation goes for solo ranked, which by it's own is a failure system that shouldn't be there in the first place without cross server queues. Bioware gave whiners the chance to "play solo" and not count on the team, making worst mistake, and a simple fact leads to it: No pugs should exist in ranked system! You will get better or worse playes, resulting in huge ranking drop or faceroll the guys having weak undergeared players.

 

My concern is that:

• Every sane and able PVP player (about 3% of the population) already capped both comms, and is waiting with about several characters for 2.7 when he will immediately create another gear gap (because i believe the gear level difference will be more than 2 this time, and the gap will be much higher than between conqueror and obroan).
  
• The amount of people queuing for ranked will not change regardless of the new rewards on a longer run (yes people will try and drop it after a week).
  
• It is not gearing that kills player, but extreme difference in ranked and normal skill level between 3% of players and the rest.
  
• People still think they can do solo everything, and that the pug is fine, while the truth is they will almost always fail to a good coordinated team, and by all means they should, because this is a "massive multiplayer online" game where guilds and teams exist. If you can't understand that go back to call of duty or quake.
  

 

What should be done:

• Fix arena maps (most notably remove mr. lag from makeb mesa while you enter the bridge).
  
• Bolster should be excluded (and it's doable) from ranked environment just to ensure every player participating have to have full expertise. Also, people without full bolster should be unable to participate in ranked queues.
  
• Remove solo ranked system, as it fails to work and is a reason of constant qq. (solo rating lost, gear problems, matchmaking problems).
  
• bring 2v2 arena ranked system instead, where people will be forced to get a team and play mmo.
  
• Remove matchmaking system because it fails
  
• Fix a bit the values of ratings gained by first 10 matches (bring them to level that you get post those matches), and fix the values of rating lost.
  
• For normal warzones, create a FLAT bolster stats, that are replacing yours if the system detects you are not running full expertise. This will prevent players from minimaxing bolstered gear.
  

 

On longer run:

• Return to us the form of 8v8 or its smaller equivalent for lets say 4v4 but with objectives
  

Edited March 5, 2014 by Nezyrworks

[Jherad]

I really can't understand why anyone would want a new tier. When everyone gets it you gain absolutely no advantage with it in PvP, and it isn't even a nice looking set - you are literally grinding for nothing.

 

 

Perhaps in 2.8 Bioware can introduce a new type of XP called DERP. Spending warzone comms gains you DERP. You don't actually get anything from it of course, but it's PROGRESS!

Edited March 5, 2014 by Jherad

[Smuglebunny]

For those saying speak for myself, I was, and the people I know agree with me.

 

At no time did I say "all your customers". Just" your customers". And all of the people who dont want new gear are their customers. Also I asked them a question that they wont answer and ignoring that thread means they knew that "a portion" of their PVP players didnt want new gear. And its PVP gear. Plus how many PVPers are still playing this game? So like 150 people dont want new gear, and 150 do? lol

Also if many, some, half, a quarter, a few of their players are totally against something while the rest of the pop is like, whatever it seems unwise to annoy your tenuous playerbase. They just have a roadmap and the care not what anyone wants they just hope you will like whatever they happen to do.

I see now that BW feels that the cartel market makes enough money that they can continue to totally ignore various player concerns. There are still bugs from launch...

 

Also, if a BW employee came to that thread long ago and said "look we understand your concerns but we feel that for reason xy and z that we need to put in new gear" Then it would be a lot better than being ignored totally. Thats disrespect.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Smuglebunny