[Class Rep] Three Questions Regarding Our Wonderful Class

[lazorgunpewpew]

This isn't really PT specific, but the debuff tracking in this game sucks. I hate that the bleed for PTs looks exactly like the bleed for marauders. So, first question:

 

Why does the debuff tracking in this game suck so hard?

 

I mostly PVE-tank on my PT. PTs are in a really good spot, and I can't really complain about anything. The only weak spot is our number of DCDs, but our passive mitigation makes up for that.

 

One thing I don't like in PVE-DPS is that out gap-closer is slow compared to other MDPS. Grapple is not really useful in PVE, and hydraulic override is slow in comparison to force speed, jumps, rolls, ect. Next question would be:

 

Are there any plans to improve mobility in PVE that won't break PVP?

 

Oh yah, ask for more pve damage too.

[Blitz-wing]

Opening Statement: Comment on the solid position that PT's are in with regards to Tanking (PvE & PvP) & DPS (PvP).

Follow up with the fact that in PvE PT DPS has fallen behind all classes expect Assassin, that even with the introduction of the armor debuff relic for the target dummy, neither PT DPS spec is putting up competitive numbers.

 

PvE - While an overall Damage boost is needed, the Powertech community feels that the lack of a true gap closer is the 2nd biggest factor is lower DPS. What are the design theories behind the Powertech being the only melee class without a gap closer?

With the higher mobility that PT's have compared to the other melee classes it is accepted that Jet Charge would be to overpowered. However a boost system similar to that of the Assassin or Operative would be balanced.

 

General - The 2-pc Set Bonus (PvE) & both the 2-pc & 4-pc Set Bonus (PvP) are underwhelming. The PvE 2-pc is only picked up because it's apart of the 4-pc, while the PvP Combat Tech set is skipped for the Eliminators set completely. (Expand to include the reasoning behind the short comings.)

What are the design goals for these set bonuses & are they hitting them?

[TACeMossie]

General - The 2-pc Set Bonus (PvE) & both the 2-pc & 4-pc Set Bonus (PvP) are underwhelming. The PvE 2-pc is only picked up because it's apart of the 4-pc, while the PvP Combat Tech set is skipped for the Eliminators set completely. (Expand to include the reasoning behind the short comings.)

What are the design goals for these set bonuses & are they hitting them?

 

I'd like to point out here that the 2-piece PvE bonus means that shoulder cannon synchs up better with Explosive Fuel, but then again Explosive Fuel should be on that cooldown anyway. The 2-piece PvE is about a 3% crit rate increase if you have explosive fuel up off cooldown, so its not really a waste (in fact, its stronger than the boost from the merc 2-piece PvE bonus). But then again, explosive fuel really should be a 105 second cooldown naturally and the 2-piece should be better. Something to do with resource management...

 

Oh and yeah, the PvP 4-piece should really be better for Assault spec. Especially considering that the 4-piece Merc set bonus is better than the 2-piece and 4-piece PT PvP set bonus combined...

 

Why Resource Management? See my colourful post on page 1.

Edited February 20, 2014 by TACeMossie

[Mathemagica]

I mostly PVE-tank on my PT. PTs are in a really good spot, and I can't really complain about anything. The only weak spot is our number of DCDs, but our passive mitigation makes up for that.

 

In theory, this is correct. In practice, however, this only works out if the tanks survivability isn't only tested through short burst damage phases. Scum&Villainy was somewhat unbalanced because it had so much burst damage that had to be tanked.

As I tried to say in my earlier post, it can be frustrating in high end PvE if an encounter caters towards the strengths of one (or two) of the existing tanking classes without giving the other tanking classes a niche to shine in.

The Oricon-Operations look like they will do a better job in giving each tanking class a way to play to their strength. If this changes again with future operations, the tanking classes need better tools for situations they are currently weak in (e.g. Anti-burst tools for Powertechs, kiting tools for Juggernauts, etc).

 

The way things currently are, I don't see this as the top issue for Powertech tanks, so I'd rather use our questions to bring up the defense-shield issue I brought up before.

[Ottoattack]

General - The 2-pc Set Bonus (PvE) & both the 2-pc & 4-pc Set Bonus (PvP) are underwhelming. The PvE 2-pc is only picked up because it's apart of the 4-pc, while the PvP Combat Tech set is skipped for the Eliminators set completely. (Expand to include the reasoning behind the short comings.)

What are the design goals for these set bonuses & are they hitting them?

 

While I agree that there needs to be a PT eliminator set, the 15% bonus critic on RS is so crucial for damage. Also, every AP PT uses combat tech set because RP is integral part of AP damage and the additional 0.5 sec in carbonize and 15 sec reduction on CC break are pretty useful. Are PT sets useless in PvP? Far from it. In PvE the set is good for pyro but poor for AP. Some work needs to be put in improving the set bonuses, but I would not consider it high on the priorities for PT.

[Luckeyduckey]

Pretty much PvE we need a lot more damage, PvP tanks need a buff.

[Kooziejr]

Pretty much PvE we need a lot more damage, PvP tanks need a buff.

 

Assassin tank stun/mez cd. 2 second stun 30 sec cooldown. 4 second stun 60 sec cooldown. 8 second mez 60 sec cooldown (2 second cast I think) and sap

Jugg tank cds. 2 x 4 second hard stuns on 60 sec cd. Aoe mez 6 secs on 60 sec cd.

 

Pts just have the standard 60 second 4 sec stun and 2.5 second aoe hard stun. We NEED a mez in the tank tree for pvp ffs.

[AAntan]

Pts just have the standard 60 second 4 sec stun and 2.5 second aoe hard stun. We NEED a mez in the tank tree for pvp ffs.

 

Maybe change "No Escape" to make Grapple stun the target for 1 or 2s max (considering its a 30m skill with 45s cd, 35s if you get the "Advanced tools") instead of immobilize for 3s.

[Kooziejr]

Maybe change "No Escape" to make Grapple stun the target for 1 or 2s max (considering its a 30m skill with 45s cd, 35s if you get the "Advanced tools") instead of immobilize for 3s.

 

It has no utility to stun. U want mez to stop a gealer healer from healing. Not stun for 1 second. That serves not much purpose

[AAntan]

It has no utility to stun. U want mez to stop a gealer healer from healing. Not stun for 1 second. That serves not much purpose

 

Ya I know 1s is not enough, but if you ask for 4 or more you get a no.

[Kooziejr]

Ya I know 1s is not enough, but if you ask for 4 or more you get a no.

 

I dont want a stun......its about having a cc that breaks on damage taken. I dont care if I get a no. Its about asking for wuat the claas deserves and brining it to their attention. Bioware have a brought up in the past pt tanks dont have the same mezzing utility as other tank classes. It is now time for us to address it. Worry about what is important not what ur goong to get 1 second instead of a three second immobilise is a massive nerf and a Terrible peeling tool...so that is not what is needed or what I would be after.

 

Sorry I type on fone. Figure out the auto correct s

Edited February 22, 2014 by Kooziejr

[Gyronamics]

I have two issues I'd like to bring into discussion. Neither are crucial to our class but they do relate to the overall Pub/Imp balancing.

 

Issue 1: Vanguard or Commando Hammer Shot hits a target with 7 separate attacks. Powertech Rapid Shots hits a target with 5 separate attacks and Merc Rapid Shots hits a target with 10 separate attacks. I don't want to break out the math, but this gives Powertech's easily the lowest chance of any Pyro class to trigger CGC, and it gives PT tanks about a 10% lower chance to trigger IGC (lowering Heat Blast's CD) than Vanguard tanks. I would like to ask if they could set the cylinders up in a way that results in all of the final probabilities coming out the same.

 

Commando gets more chances than a PT?

 

Reroll a Merc.

 

Merc gets offhand hits on every single non-elemental ability and since the professional rotation for a Pyro involves NEVER using Rapid Shots this makes Mercs better at CGC procs than Commandos since Commandos abilities like Railshot, Power Shot, Unload have half the number of hits.

 

Sure, what level would you like it all set at.

Edited February 22, 2014 by Gyronamics

[Mularky]

Could we see some changes to dot damage within the Pyro tree? I personally think TD should not have a dot and return its regular damage.

 

With the of buffing CGC damage along with flamburst damage increase to put in line with Merc Pyro. I want to see the PT return to its former glory. It has to be my favorite class in the game since launch with and EW Powertech and EW Vanguard.

 

This is pretty big Christmas list lol but, how could we help PVE dps.

Edited February 22, 2014 by Mularky

[tdjeter]

as far as a gap closing ability in PVE is concerned, how about if a target is grappled but has boss immunity you get pulled to the target? you would have to deal with the threat generation part of it but it would give PT's a gap closer without changing too much.

[Kooziejr]

as far as a gap closing ability in PVE is concerned, how about if a target is grappled but has boss immunity you get pulled to the target? you would have to deal with the threat generation part of it but it would give PT's a gap closer without changing too much.

 

This has been discussed 500000000 times in the thread. It womt happen and even if it did it wouldnt improve damage output (it would probably reduce it if the pt was decent).

[Brunner_Venda]

Could we see some changes to dot damage within the Pyro tree? I personally think TD should not have a dot and return its regular damage.

 

With the of buffing CGC damage along with flamburst damage increase to put in line with Merc Pyro. I want to see the PT return to its former glory. It has to be my favorite class in the game since launch with and EW Powertech and EW Vanguard.

 

This is pretty big Christmas list lol but, how could we help PVE dps.

 

The DOT on thermal det is great, we just got a huge up front damage buff to it.

 

CGC does a lot of damage for something that procs off of our default attack, it's fine.

 

Anymore damage in PVP and pyro is looking at the nerf bat.

[Kooziejr]

The DOT on thermal det is great, we just got a huge up front damage buff to it.

 

CGC does a lot of damage for something that procs off of our default attack, it's fine.

 

Anymore damage in PVP and pyro is looking at the nerf bat.

 

This. If you cant top dps boards in pvp now and do massive damage and kill almost every one 1 v 1 as a pt dps u need to uninstall. The pt dps DO NOT need a buff. You will just have to accept youre a bad if you are asking for dps buffs at this point. These 3 questions need to address tank in pvp and dps in pve.

[ScytheEleven]

This. If you cant top dps boards in pvp now and do massive damage and kill almost every one 1 v 1 as a pt dps u need to uninstall. The pt dps DO NOT need a buff. You will just have to accept youre a bad if you are asking for dps buffs at this point. These 3 questions need to address tank in pvp and dps in pve.

 

Exactly.

 

Any buff to PVE DPS must be through sustained damage. Anything else is going to get the nerf bat swung at PT's.

 

1) Increase Incendiary Missile DoT

2) Increase Retractable Blade DoT

3) Set CD for Explosive Fuel @ 1:45 (slight buff to PVP specs but eh not a big deal really)

4) New set bonus for PVE: 15% crit to Incendiary Missile or Retractable Blade

 

Tank stuff has already been discussed.

[Mularky]

The DOT on thermal det is great, we just got a huge up front damage buff to it.

 

CGC does a lot of damage for something that procs off of our default attack, it's fine.

 

Anymore damage in PVP and pyro is looking at the nerf bat.

 

It does not hit as hard as you think. I get 1000+ ticks when targets go below 30%. The amazing part about Superheated Rail is that when Railshot hits a burning target it procs it. Before 2.0 that is where the burst came from, every time you hit someone for 6k in a raid or 5k in pvp you basically did an extra 1000 damage. And having a chance to not proc your CGC off of flameburst stinks and it kills the dps. Its very annoying when it doesn't proc off of flame burst.

 

The dot damage for CGC is pathetic compared to what it used to be. Sometimes I feel like Bioware is making this class a lethality op with heavy armor. Yes I understand it is a DOT class but do you really want the classes to run together. Once you load up to the dots they are in danger of being cured. Killing your burst horribly.

 

Before 2.0, A PT on my server ran full 31 spec pyro and was topping the dps boards across the world. The dot damage is nice but you can only apply it every 15 seconds. PT's are not as good as people say they are in PVP. They have their strengths like bursting down a healer, but only every 2 mins or when you can get good crits. The class does not have the burst like any other class as of right now.

 

I respect your opinion of what PT's are right now and where they are at. I'm willing to help with anything that will help the class. I just want the spec to be very good again.

[Kooziejr]

It does not hit as hard as you think. I get 1000+ ticks when targets go below 30%. The amazing part about Superheated Rail is that when Railshot hits a burning target it procs it. Before 2.0 that is where the burst came from, every time you hit someone for 6k in a raid or 5k in pvp you basically did an extra 1000 damage. And having a chance to not proc your CGC off of flameburst stinks and it kills the dps. Its very annoying when it doesn't proc off of flame burst.

 

The dot damage for CGC is pathetic compared to what it used to be. Sometimes I feel like Bioware is making this class a lethality op with heavy armor. Yes I understand it is a DOT class but do you really want the classes to run together. Once you load up to the dots they are in danger of being cured. Killing your burst horribly.

 

Before 2.0, A PT on my server ran full 31 spec pyro and was topping the dps boards across the world. The dot damage is nice but you can only apply it every 15 seconds. PT's are not as good as people say they are in PVP. They have their strengths like bursting down a healer, but only every 2 mins or when you can get good crits. The class does not have the burst like any other class as of right now.

 

I respect your opinion of what PT's are right now and where they are at. I'm willing to help with anything that will help the class. I just want the spec to be very good again.

 

Son it might be time to re roll if you are not trolling.

[OM-AR]

From a pve dps standpoint:

 

As from what I see we need a 10% increase in damage. A good buff to Flame burst would benefit both AP and pyro as it is used quite frequently.

 

Maybe go with something that is offhand dependent like Flame burst does x base damage + extra damage dependent on armor of off hand generator.

 

Or adding a skill at the bottom of the pyro or ap tree that is named say " Fuel atomization " wth a description of " Your Flame burst damage is increased by 3-6-9 ( 3 skill points ) for each dot applied to your target " or " Your flame burst damage is increased by 3-6-9 when there is periodic damage on the target. This effect stacks 3 times "

 

 

P.s. As a non technical discussion: As I play the class more for the fun and feeling than for raw dps numbers ( my main is a marauder ) I would love to have access to jet boost as a dps.

[ScytheEleven]

If anyone really thinks that PT's are not in a great place right now...

 

...don't let the door hit you on the way out. Sorry for being rude, but seriously. Escape tools, good survivability, great burst in both specs...it just can't get any better.

 

Buffing Flame Burst would buff burst damage in PVP. Not a good idea. A potential 4k crit ability that is spammed now hits for 6k crit spammed? Over the top.

 

And Jet Charge as a baseline for PT's is something that sounds cool, but when you think about it, it would push the class over the top in PVP. I'd also rather have my pull in WZ's/arenas for utility than a gap closer.

[Mularky]

If anyone really thinks that PT's are not in a great place right now...

 

...don't let the door hit you on the way out. Sorry for being rude, but seriously. Escape tools, good survivability, great burst in both specs...it just can't get any better.

 

Buffing Flame Burst would buff burst damage in PVP. Not a good idea. A potential 4k crit ability that is spammed now hits for 6k crit spammed? Over the top.

 

And Jet Charge as a baseline for PT's is something that sounds cool, but when you think about it, it would push the class over the top in PVP. I'd also rather have my pull in WZ's/arenas for utility than a gap closer.

 

I agree with your statement that PT's are in a good place in pvp right now. I was talking about this with my friends last night on how merc pyro is destroying PT pyro in dps. Its b/c of the charged shot, if flame burst were able to hit that hard AND have a 15% crit chance set bonus to it, I think PT's would be in a good spot then.

Edited February 23, 2014 by Mularky

[ReclaimerDonar]

If he got destroyed by pyro merc, there is issue in player, not in the class

[ScytheEleven]

He is referring to PVE parsing...which is true. PVE Pyro Merc > PVE Pyro PT.

 

Like I said though, you simply cannot buff Flameburst without making PT Pyro over the top in PVP. Buff the DoT from Incendiary Missile for PT's, but not for Mercs.