Ideas for avoiding forced PvP flagging on PVE servers

[Mubrak]

PVE players who dont want any part of pvp and dont want to be limited by pvp in any way should also have opportunity to play the way they like - on PVE servers, naturally.

 

The solution would be an "indifferent pacifist" flag, that would make PVP flagged players and NPCs like the conquest-commanders immune to your damage and healing. The flag could be only set on the fleet, so you can neither give the PVP players on your side an unfair advantage by being an invincible combatant, nor can you decide to join the fight as soon as your participation might tip the scales. (Or to play hero as soon as your side is already winning)

 

Oh, and if you enter a PVP area (Outlaw's den for HK, Gree PVP Missions) your flag would change into "fair game" and you could be attacked by anyone but still wouldn't be able to damage other players.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Mubrak

[Ratajack]

Exactly. There are plenty of opportunities for PVP-enjoying players to play the way they like ranging from full-time pvp on PVP servers to voluntary options on PVE servers. PVE players who dont want any part of pvp and dont want to be limited by pvp in any way should also have opportunity to play the way they like - on PVE servers, naturally.

 

If, by "playing the way you want", you mean that you want only to PVE, you can do that on PVE servers.

 

The answer is simple. Do NOT target and attack flagged players of the opposite faction, or heal flagged players of your faction. This applies to your companion, also. If you are so certain that your companion is causing you to flag, you can dismiss your companion or set your companion to passive.

 

On the other hand, if, by "playing the way you want", you mean that you can play with your companion out and aggressive, with all AoE's ative, use all of your AoE's, tab target without concern or paying attention to what you have targeted, then you run the risk of getting yourself flagged if you target a flagged enemy player and attack.

[manabuka]

If, by "playing the way you want", you mean that you want only to PVE, you can do that on PVE servers.

 

The answer is simple. Do NOT target and attack flagged players of the opposite faction, or heal flagged players of your faction. This applies to your companion, also. If you are so certain that your companion is causing you to flag, you can dismiss your companion or set your companion to passive.

 

On the other hand, if, by "playing the way you want", you mean that you can play with your companion out and aggressive, with all AoE's ative, use all of your AoE's, tab target without concern or paying attention to what you have targeted, then you run the risk of getting yourself flagged if you target a flagged enemy player and attack.

 

It's funny how you say one thing and then contradict yourself. "You CAN play how you want as long as it's like this." Doesn't make a lot of sense when you look at it critically.

[azudelphi]

It's funny how you say one thing and then contradict yourself. "You CAN play how you want as long as it's like this." Doesn't make a lot of sense when you look at it critically.

 

Playing how you want doesn't mean there aren't consequences to playing how you want... if you want to PVE without fear of being flagged for PVP by a nearby flagged individual, then you need to consider the abilities you use while PVE'ing.

 

Generally, it's as simple as, check your companion's aoe abilities and don't target the flagged person. If you're hitting tab every second that's a behavior you need to fix regardless of flagging...

[LanceCorporalDan]

Simply don't attack a flagged player yes? Is this really an issue? Was this not patched ages ago?

[grrusa]

If, by "playing the way you want", you mean that you want only to PVE, you can do that on PVE servers.

...

On the other hand, if, by "playing the way you want", you mean that you can play with your companion out and aggressive, with all AoE's ative, use all of your AoE's, tab target without concern or paying attention to what you have targeted, then you run the risk of getting yourself flagged if you target a flagged enemy player and attack.

 

I said what I meant - " PVE players who dont want any part of pvp and dont want to be limited by pvp in any way" - in other words, hardcore PVPers can play on PVP servers where no one can prevent them from attacking, it would be reasonable for hardcore PVE players to be able to play on PVE servers like no PVP was implemented at all - so PVP flagged players would act like "green" instead of "yellow" mobs and so be immune to any accidental damage might go their way.

 

Believe it or not, but having auto-target nearest enemy set and an aggressive companion out is a viable PVE strategy in many situations (outside OPS etc., naturally, but you neither bring companions there nor pvp there anyway)

[Lotharofxev]

For once I agree with Kalfear. See his quoted post on page 3. Spot - on.

 

(You're still on 'ignore' though)

[Ratajack]

I said what I meant - " PVE players who dont want any part of pvp and dont want to be limited by pvp in any way" - in other words, hardcore PVPers can play on PVP servers where no one can prevent them from attacking, it would be reasonable for hardcore PVE players to be able to play on PVE servers like no PVP was implemented at all - so PVP flagged players would act like "green" instead of "yellow" mobs and so be immune to any accidental damage might go their way.

 

Believe it or not, but having auto-target nearest enemy set and an aggressive companion out is a viable PVE strategy in many situations (outside OPS etc., naturally, but you neither bring companions there nor pvp there anyway)

 

It is a viable strategy in many situations, but not around flagged enemy players, IMO. If you choose to employ that strategy around flagged enemy players, then you should expect to find yourself flagged.

 

BW is not here to hold your hand and protect you from your own actions.

 

As I said, I am a PVE'er who does not like PVP. Why is it that I have not found myself flagged in over a year if the big, bad bullies are so prevalent?

[Kalfear]

For once I agree with Kalfear. See his quoted post on page 3. Spot - on.

 

(You're still on 'ignore' though)

 

please dont agree with me EVER

It makes me think Im *** backwards and wrong on what I said

 

and if your going to ignore then do it already

stop with the childish "your still on ignore even though I know what you posted and page its posted on" crap

[grrusa]

It is a viable strategy in many situations, but not around flagged enemy players, IMO. If you choose to employ that strategy around flagged enemy players, then you should expect to find yourself flagged.

BW is not here to hold your hand and protect you from your own actions.

 

Why should I expect that? It is not some law of nature BW could either leave me to deal with or "hold my hand and protect me" - it is how BW set it up. BW could have made it different, perhaps like some of us suggest here or even more different (eg. even less friendly to nonPVPers). You seem to be supporting current mechanics simply based on "BW said so" rather than whether you think it is good/bad and why. BW is also changing things along the way (otherwise there would be no use for Suggestion Box in the forums) so they could change even this (I dont say they would). So sticking to the current way it works just because it is what BW have decided makes no sense - unless you actually like it the way it is. But judging from what you have said (being PVEer who has not been flagged accidentally) you shouldnt really care if it stays or changes like some other PVEers here want.

[LordArtemis]

Good suggestions, I support the idea that you can't attack or assist any player or factional flagged NPC unless you are flagged yourself.

 

That is the easiest way to stop the griefing of any kind.

 

There are only two reasons, IMO, you should receive a flag without choosing it directly....

 

1) Enter a PVP flagged area

2) A flagged NPC attacks you

[Ratajack]

Why should I expect that? It is not some law of nature BW could either leave me to deal with or "hold my hand and protect me" - it is how BW set it up. BW could have made it different, perhaps like some of us suggest here or even more different (eg. even less friendly to nonPVPers). You seem to be supporting current mechanics simply based on "BW said so" rather than whether you think it is good/bad and why. BW is also changing things along the way (otherwise there would be no use for Suggestion Box in the forums) so they could change even this (I dont say they would). So sticking to the current way it works just because it is what BW have decided makes no sense - unless you actually like it the way it is. But judging from what you have said (being PVEer who has not been flagged accidentally) you shouldnt really care if it stays or changes like some other PVEers here want.

 

Will it affect me personally if BW holds your hand and tells the big, bad bullies to stop being mean? No, it won't because I don't insist on doing stupid things that will get me flagged.

 

My concern is what will the next demand be if BW gives you your cookie? Will players ask that they make the mobs easier to kill and do less damage because the player is getting killed due to the fact that they only want to one way to play and cannot/will not change their tactics? How much easier do people expect this game to become?

[LordArtemis]

Well, frankly it will likely become whatever the masses require in order to remain solvent. That means if this is a common request (that is speculative naturally) then it may in fact become a reality.

 

They have already removed the ability for folks to run through AoEs to trigger flags. The devs have also stated that they are looking at other changes for the future, so this could become a reality.

 

We will have to see. IMO there is little to no reason a professional PVP player should or would want to fight a PVE player. Therefore it is likely, IMO, this kind of change would bother very few if any REAL PVP players.

 

Only those not worthy of the PVP moniker IMO would be concerned that they would no longer have a method to force a flag. And those kind of players would only benefit from being forced to actually play against those that are skilled in the ways of PVP so they could become worthy of the name.

 

Just my slant.

[DanNV]

Good suggestions, I support the idea that you can't attack or assist any player or factional flagged NPC unless you are flagged yourself.

 

That is the easiest way to stop the griefing of any kind.

 

There are only two reasons, IMO, you should receive a flag without choosing it directly....

 

1) Enter a PVP flagged area

2) A flagged NPC attacks you

 

I agree with the idea that no one who is flagged an affect anyone who isn't and no one who isn't can effect anyone who is flagged. It's simple. So, I agree with your #`1, but #2 makes no sense. A flagged NPC (companion since that's the only flagged NPCs out there) can't attack you if you aren't flagged.

[Scobey]

A PvE server should do none of what you said. System is fine as it is.

 

I haven't seen this bug since they fixed it. If you don't have the other person targeted, then aoe's won't cause you to be flagged. If you do target them, then wayward attacks will flag you.

 

If you see someone coming, put your companion on passive or at the least turn off their aoes. Simple.

 

You apparently aren't paying attention. I was killing a commander on Oricon with my Vanguard using NO aoe's since as a tank with a healer comp I simply don't need them. The griefers mounted up on banthas and moved right up on my fight so I couldn't see anything but the bantha. I immediately took my hand away from the mouse and used nothing but targetted attacks to do my work. When the boss was gone my healing comp must have put something out because I was instantly flagged, ganked and killed.

 

No big deal really except that after that I had to wait 5 minutes before being able to go and play again since the same group of "Heroic PvP'ers" were waiting outside the Medic Safe Zone throwing insults.

 

This is Jedi Covenant Server. This is Griefing plain and simple. I have other words, but nothing that would be helpful to pointing out the problems with the current system.

 

This is becoming a bigger and bigger problem and many of these same individuals are camping the weekly areas of the game making it impossible to progress toons into gear. If you are such a good PvP'er why are you on a server that is designated PvE? Transfer your toons. The only answer I can think of is that they aren't very good at PvP, and this is their joy.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Scobey

[DOHboy]

You apparently aren't paying attention. I was killing a commander on Oricon with my Vanguard using NO aoe's since as a tank with a healer comp I simply don't need them. The griefers mounted up on banthas and moved right up on my fight so I couldn't see anything but the bantha. I immediately took my hand away from the mouse and used nothing but targetted attacks to do my work. When the boss was gone my healing comp must have put something out because I was instantly flagged, ganked and killed.

 

No big deal really except that after that I had to wait 5 minutes before being able to go and play again since the same group of "Heroic PvP'ers" were waiting outside the Medic Safe Zone throwing insults.

 

This is Jedi Covenant Server and ***** and ***** were the two names I can remember. This is Griefing plain and simple. I have other words, but nothing that would be helpful to pointing out the problems with the current system.

 

This is becoming a bigger and bigger problem and many of these same individuals are camping the weekly areas of the game making it impossible to progress toons into gear. If you are such a good PvP'er why are you on a server that is designated PvE? Transfer your toons. The only answer I can think of is that they aren't very good at PvP, and this is their joy.

 

may want to remove the names from your post, name and shame is a no no around here and could easily earn a vacation.

 

With griefing, report and move on/change instances.

[Scobey]

Thank you, was unaware that naming people who are griefers was frowned on. Changing instances only does so much as they split up and cover that base.

 

I really haven't posted since Beta, and just felt I needed to chime in on this issue because it truly needs to be fixed. My server is really having a problem lately, and many people who i've talked to are about to just give up. It stinks because they have some decent end game content, but bozos are able to ruin it.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Scobey

[Orizuru]

Thank you, was unaware that naming people who are griefers was frowned on. Changing instances only does so much as they split up and cover that base.

 

I really haven't posted since Beta, and just felt I needed to chime in on this issue because it truly needs to be fixed. My server is really having a problem lately, and many people who i've talked to are about to just give up. It stinks because they have some decent end game content, but bozos are able to ruin it.

 

The biggest part of the problem has already been fixed. Your AoE damage will not flag you for PVP unless you have a player of the opposing faction targeted while they are flagged for PVP.

 

However, there still exists a method of tricking a player into targeting the flagged player. The way it works is simple really. There is a feature you can toggle on and off in Preferences that allows you to auto acquire a target when you activate an ability when you have no target. If I stand on top of you while you are in combat and you kill your current target and press a button to activate a single target damage ability while this feature is enable, then the system will auto-acquire me as your target and you will attack a flagged player and enter PVP combat.

 

The best way to protect yourself from this is to toggle that feature off in the Preferences window. You still have to watch your target though when other players around you are flagged. Tab targeting can end up targeting another player just as quickly as auto-acquiring a target can. Once you are aware of how these players are forcing you to target them, it becomes much easier to ignore them by being careful about what you have targeted before you attack.

 

With a little awareness though, you don't even need to toggle off the feature that auto-acquires targets for you. You just have to stop mashing buttons when other players around you are flagged.

[Scobey]

The biggest part of the problem has already been fixed. Your AoE damage will not flag you for PVP unless you have a player of the opposing faction targeted while they are flagged for PVP.

 

However, there still exists a method of tricking a player into targeting the flagged player. The way it works is simple really. There is a feature you can toggle on and off in Preferences that allows you to auto acquire a target when you activate an ability when you have no target. If I stand on top of you while you are in combat and you kill your current target and press a button to activate a single target damage ability while this feature is enable, then the system will auto-acquire me as your target and you will attack a flagged player and enter PVP combat.

 

The best way to protect yourself from this is to toggle that feature off in the Preferences window. You still have to watch your target though when other players around you are flagged. Tab targeting can end up targeting another player just as quickly as auto-acquiring a target can. Once you are aware of how these players are forcing you to target them, it becomes much easier to ignore them by being careful about what you have targeted before you attack.

 

With a little awareness though, you don't even need to toggle off the feature that auto-acquires targets for you. You just have to stop mashing buttons when other players around you are flagged.

 

Thank you. I knew there had to be a setting somewhere, and this is absolutely how I got flagged. Fighting an elite commander is a bit of a rush though sometimes, and when you have the overhang of grievers with you, sometimes you get overzealous on the keyboard.

 

I feel terrible for not knowing this setting and it would certainly save me from other possible mishaps that I am very careful of when in ops.

 

I guess I just wish the game took a greater stance against grievers. SOE would give you a vacation REAL quick for griefing, and it says a lot that SOE would do anything better than you.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Scobey

[Orizuru]

You're welcome, I'm glad I could help. Don't beat yourself up though. MMOs like this game never come with a manual that can help you identify features like this. I didn't know about it until I was posting in a similar thread and someone pointed it out to me. In a game as big as an MMO sometimes the only way you ever learn some things is by asking other players for help.

 

EA/Bioware actually does take a fairly proactive stance against griefing though. Cases like what happened to you are a gray area though because there isn't always enough data in the logs to determine what really happened and to the moderators its just your word against theirs.

 

Happy gaming!

Edited November 26, 2014 by Orizuru

[SplashNOR]

"Brave PvP'ers" my ***.... I knew enough not to heal another player, when I watched 3 lvl 55 cowards attack 1 lvl 40 Jedi Sage...

[Yorioko]

If you target a flagged player and attack, you are VOLUNTEERING for PVP. It doesn't matter whether you "intended" to attack that flagged player. The fact remains that you DID target that flagged player and you subsequently attacked him. It is up to YOU, the player, to ensure that you do not target and attack a flagged player.

 

How you want it to be is not necessarily the way it actually works.

 

How is this fair?

Example ( happened to me) I sent my companin into a 4man cluster of mobs, Very Close by, but still fighting ANOTHER Group of mobswas a pvp flagged player, I was busey doing my dailies ( here kill a certain number and then etc etc) I never payed full attention to IF this guy was flagged or not.......my copmps AOE and my AOE attackes both had a range long enough to affect the flagged player and I was suddenly pvp flagged..............

 

Now FAIR here would be that flagged/unflagged palyers in no way could affect eachother, much like non pvp flegged players can't affect eachother............that is the ONLY fair thing.

 

Now in my example here I wasn't attacked while flagged I naturally to avoid that QTed to closest safe area and waited 5 minutes and got my self unflagged and then had to og the "long way" back, luckily the SH is now a safe haven, but it still take the cooldown time.....

This is one example on how accidental flagging becomes a problem and the problem needs to be fixed.

 

Ina previous thread here it was reffered to the KH mission in Outlaws Den, where it was "hinted" that it was in anyway WRONG to try avoid pvp in these areas......

 

This CAN be solved by allowing HK to be bought through legay even if you haven't done the missions for him in the past, much like With treek.

In this way we who don't want to PVP at all, but still have payed for the game and has Equal rights to get HK, and naturlly thus SHOULD have the right to get the parts without suffering attacks due to auto flagging.

 

Simply add HK to a purchasable contract in the game like With Treek, and this issue I think is solved.

 

- Nowhere in the Mission(s) to Get HK does it ever say you are going to a autoflagging zone, so many players then og there ONLY to get the part, and nothing else....yet they by autoflagging even for 5minutes ( long time in the game I might add) after leaving the zone are 100% free bait for anyone who wants to........

 

I suggest you can turn off and on pvp flag freely, BUT to avoid expoiting this say in pvp or other situations , when you unflag in a pvp area you can not reflagg in 5 minutes, but you can instantly turn it off.........few if any fights lasts 5 minues so this renders any exploiting of the free flagg more or less a NON-Issue.

 

:rolleyes:

[TravelersWay]

The simplest fix is to make flagging only manual on PvE servers, overridden of course when entering the designated PvP areas. That way those who do not wish to PvP do not have to worry about misclicks, and those that do can leave their flag on permanently as they can now. Edited November 27, 2014 by TravelersWay

[Yorioko]

I see People worring about being able to turn OFF pvp flag when inside a PVP are can lead to exploits...........there is a way I theink is fairly easy, that will fix a free off toggle in pvp areas but not give anyone the possiblilty of exploiting.

 

I don't pvp much at all, but has happened and most likely will agin, and I can imagine turning on an off pvp flagging in a fight will be........exactly.

So how about if you can toggle off instantly, just like you toggle on the flagg, but when in a pvp area IF you unflag you have to wait the same 5 minutes as when you normally cool Down in a safe area.

 

With something like this the non pvp player that must og through a pvp area for whatever reason, can do so freely, all they need to do is toggle OFF the flagg.

 

I can't imagine a pvper wanting to turn his flagg off, it sort looses the point so then the 5 minute cooldown to be able to reflagg will the exploit prevetnive.

This also hinders possible explpoits of People bing "free to attack" in the 5 minutes AFTER they have left the area and thus toggled off their flagg ........in fact using the 5 minute asan excuse IS exploiting in the other way.

 

When it comes to accidents or toggling the prefreance autofire thingy...this too is easily preventable........yes the first attack will mostly strike.....then instantly toggle OFF flag and the NeXT attacks fail until the same situation arises by the time both parties are long gone.

 

However the problem, however big or small of players attacking, waiting and baskically genking and in this way exploiting pvp flaggign ONLY to be mean will allways exist, lets just pray there are ways to proove a sequence of events and then that BW bans them....a day or week depending .

[standtallwalkfre]

I would totally be in favor of removing PVP flagging completely from the PVE servers