Let the hate fly, but I still say Bioware should allow you to change your AC

[Sangrar]

To be fair, it is specifically stated that once you choose, you can never change your advanced class, that is the path you shall walk forever, so you have to choose what you want to do the rest of the game on that character. I personally flip a coin to choose which advanced class to take on each character, has never steered me wrong!

[Glower]

It affects endgame and raids as well. Because if you have people respecing at will then it breaks down group dynamics and raiding teams.

 

LOL! I have all mirrored classes but for imps and reps separately (eight 55 lvl chars), can YOU allow me to change AC?

 

Or i need to level eight more characters (okay 1-2 more, cuz I do not want to change them all )?

 

I mean... I have experience and gear, may be something like unlock "AC swap" through legacy?

[Savej]

Well, by that same way of thinking, I should be able to change my entire class from say smuggler to trooper.

 

The AC is a completely different class.

 

Yep - many of the arguments for AC swapping could be interpreted as for full class swapping. Just like many of those against it could just as easily apply against allowing skill tree respecs.

 

But the ACs do NOT represent "completely different classes":

 

1) Many many abilities are shared (identical effects, identical names).

2) Stats and most equipment are shared - in most cases the only thing that has to change with AC swaps is one or two gear pieces for near perfect functionality.

3) Energy mechanics are the same.

4) Race options are shared (matters to some)

5) A skill tree is shared - my focus sentinel plays and performs almost exactly the same as my focus guardian, for example (they even share legacy gear sets).

6) Story and companions? Shared.

7) Base class name: THE SAME.

 

What's different? Just about the same sorts of things that differentiate skill trees, especially in other games (but also in this one). Saying they are "completely different" is not remotely accurate or honest.

[CaraExas]

Re roll. If all you played was Assassin/Shadow, you're not doing to have the experience of the play style of Sorc/Sage at 55. Its the same across the board, and AC changes would only create more bads who dont understand their class to begin with.

 

Not to mention people will find a way to complain about gear changes and a slew of other things that would spring from it. Its just best to keep the line were it is.

[DimmuJanKaarl]

Throwing in my 2 credits here:

 

On one hand, if the issue is whether someone knows the AC and the fact that endgame is NOT the time to be learning your abilities, etc. then a simple suggestion is a legacy unlock. You level a race to 50, you can now roll that race for free. Level an AC to 50 you can switch to that AC on any character that has the base class. No idea what the benefit is since you could simply log to that character, other than I do understand the sentiment of wanting to focus on a certain character and not spread your time out in endgame. When I am focusing on progressing my Van's gear, I don't want to log to my Commando -- potentially losing my spot in the raid as well -- because they need heals. Idk, the more I think about it the less it makes sense i guess; especially with lockouts, comm caps, etc.

 

Gear is gear. You either have it or you don't. These days in ops ppl are so worried about whether someone is properly geared it is virtually an expectation that everyone gets inspected upon entry. Very easy to see whether someone is in tank, dps, or heals gear in general. So obviously if I plan to be viable in both AC's I am going to work to get a full set of alternate gear. And ppl are already doing that. Dual-speccing is not new in this game, especially with the advent of field respec (in this context by "dual-spec" i mean the ability to switch between tank skill tree, dps, skill tree, etc; and have the appropriate gear to switch out). We are very close to that option now. Some ppl like myself respec so often that it is trivial to re-align all those skill points and already have a full set of alternate gear on hand. Hell I have a couple toons that I have full set of armor in legacy gear so that i dont have to progress the gear twice (mirror classes or w/e). What we do need is keybind storage to go with true push-of-a-button dual spec. But again, dual-speccing right now switching from sage heals to sage dps for example I have so much time in each spec that I don't miss a beat on my dps/hps meter.

 

On the other hand, pugging is frustratingly nightmarish sometimes as it is. Honestly there should be a set of achievements just for pugging. You don't always catch ppl sneaking in saying they are a vanguard dps and their ion barrel is still activated, etc. For various reasons, people will say just about anything to get into an ops pug ("oh you won't be carrying me! I've run this op a thousand times with much worse geared ppl." Then they proceed to make every mistake one can that is contrary to even the simplest boss mechanics). There is an air, it seems, -- an overall mentality -- going around that it is ok to lie about your qualifications because, for example, "16-man is so easy no one will notice I'm not pulling my weight."

 

So yes from that perspective, being able to switch ACs at the push of a button does scare me to a certain extent. But honestly, aren't you tunnel-visioning on the lowest common denominator a bit, rather than seeing the benefits to players who have put in the work? Those benefits I'm having a hard time seeing, but still...

[Savej]

Re roll. If all you played was Assassin/Shadow, you're not doing to have the experience of the play style of Sorc/Sage at 55. Its the same across the board, and AC changes would only create more bads who dont understand their class to begin with.

 

Not to mention people will find a way to complain about gear changes and a slew of other things that would spring from it. Its just best to keep the line were it is.

 

You picked the ACs that are the most different. But...

A dps guardian vs a tank guardian? How are they similar? In Warzones? Raids? FPs?

A good player could flip between sorc and sin and adapt in an hour or three - he may not get optimized but he'll be good enough for story mode raiding (where stealth, the biggest difference, mostly doesn't matter anyways) and wzs (and gsf). A bad player, who isn't any good at either AC even with 55 levels of questing (which teaches nothing about endgame anyways), may not be able to switch, but so? That person shouldn't be allowed to switch skill trees either, really, if the main goal is just to make sure that everyone gets exposed to as little incompetence from others as possible.

[Sibenice]

Re roll. If all you played was Assassin/Shadow, you're not doing to have the experience of the play style of Sorc/Sage at 55. Its the same across the board, and AC changes would only create more bads who dont understand their class to begin with.

 

Not to mention people will find a way to complain about gear changes and a slew of other things that would spring from it. Its just best to keep the line were it is.

 

Yes, because a competent player would suddenly become a mouth breathing idiot just because he has more class options available to him. If someone is stupid enough to switch and then hop into content, especially group content, without learning how to play it first then they were already an idiot.

 

Also, people complaining should never be a reason against making a change. No matter what happens, people will complain. No. Matter. What.

[Jeweledleah]

Throwing in my 2 credits here:

 

On one hand, if the issue is whether someone knows the AC and the fact that endgame is NOT the time to be learning your abilities, etc. then a simple suggestion is a legacy unlock. You level a race to 50, you can now roll that race for free.

 

I noticed that and latched on a bit.

 

you do know that you can buy a racial unlock in your legacy without having to play it first right?

 

used to be pricey at 1 million credits, but now you can also buy it with cartel coins. so if you want to have your chiss sage? you don't need to level a bounty hunter or an agent. buy unlock - bam done. its how I originally got my human presence boost, back before f2p. just did some dailies for a week and unlocked it (humans were cheaper though half a mil). I also commissioned an artist for portraits of couple of my favorite characters, for in game credits - so that artist's friend could have a chiss trooper I think it was?

 

in other words, no you do NOT have to level to 50 to unlock a race. its one of the ways of doing it but its not the only way.

 

and seriously. its much MUCH more challenging to switch roles then it is to switch specs for the same role. and we can already switch roles. and if you think everyone levels as the same spec as what they plan on using in end game in order to learn how to play? I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you, cheap.

Edited January 13, 2014 by Jeweledleah

[Ratajack]

I noticed that and latched on a bit.

 

you do know that you can buy a racial unlock in your legacy without having to play it first right?

 

used to be pricey at 1 million credits, but now you can also buy it with cartel coins. so if you want to have your chiss sage? you don't need to level a bounty hunter or an agent. buy unlock - bam done. its how I originally got my human presence boost, back before f2p. just did some dailies for a week and unlocked it (humans were cheaper though half a mil). I also commissioned an artist for portraits of couple of my favorite characters, for in game credits - so that artist's friend could have a chiss trooper I think it was?

 

in other words, no you do NOT have to level to 50 to unlock a race. its one of the ways of doing it but its not the only way.

 

and seriously. its much MUCH more challenging to switch roles then it is to switch specs for the same role. and we can already switch roles. and if you think everyone levels as the same spec as what they plan on using in end game in order to learn how to play? I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you, cheap.

 

You do know that a race unlock is COSMETIC only and has NO bearing on how a class plays, right? A Chiss commando plays EXACTLY the same as a human commando or a commando of any other race. A Chiss commando plays VERY DIFFERENTLY than a Chiss vanguard.

[Vicstorm]

So another thread that says " Hi, I'm a lazy entitled person , that goes through life buying my way through things, instead of earning it"

 

This is all that AC change boils down to. If you want a class earn it.

I know you've already started to think out or write out your reply saying, "But I have a job/family that takes my time".

To that I say, make your choices and make them well. You get out what you put in. You don't have time to roll a new class, then you also don't have time to look up how to play a new AC.

 

Sorry for you, but stop trying to buy your way through life.

[Vhaegrant]

I noticed that and latched on a bit.

 

you do know that you can buy a racial unlock in your legacy without having to play it first right?

 

used to be pricey at 1 million credits, but now you can also buy it with cartel coins. so if you want to have your chiss sage? you don't need to level a bounty hunter or an agent. buy unlock - bam done. its how I originally got my human presence boost, back before f2p. just did some dailies for a week and unlocked it (humans were cheaper though half a mil). I also commissioned an artist for portraits of couple of my favorite characters, for in game credits - so that artist's friend could have a chiss trooper I think it was?

 

in other words, no you do NOT have to level to 50 to unlock a race. its one of the ways of doing it but its not the only way.

 

and seriously. its much MUCH more challenging to switch roles then it is to switch specs for the same role. and we can already switch roles. and if you think everyone levels as the same spec as what they plan on using in end game in order to learn how to play? I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you, cheap.

 

Don't forget the species cartel unlocks can also be sold on the GTN, if you're lucky for ridiculously low prices (well lower than the usual 1,000 credits to 1 cartel coin barter rate I usually see).

 

The distinction between Advanced Classes is a separation of role abilities so that healer/ tank core abilities do not appear on the same character (I wonder if the devs are reconsidering this in light of the role out of a companion that has access to tanking and healing abilities).

This is really the only distinction regarding balance that needs to be considered. If a character has access to both at the same time (not possible even if AC swap was allowed) then their power would be boosted. However, as long as it remains a case of one or the other (as an AC swap would do) then power remains the same (even drops a little if the character requires a new gear set) but the overall utility increases.

 

As to not allowing it because it would increase 'Bad' players in the game especially at end game, it's not the strongest argument. Not least because most of the folk I know level up in a DPS spec and only swap over to their final intended role when they hit end game and start running FPs/OPs on a more regular schedule. There is also the problem of regearing between roles if you swap your spec (gear is probably usable on a Healer <-> DPS respec but certainly not on a Tank <-> DPS respec).

So the 'Bad' players are already out there. Charge them to swap AC and maybe it would encourage them to learn to play that new class better, or at least spend time researching the role.

 

It does make me chuckle a little that demand for an AC swap facility is considered 'low' by the anti-swap community and yet it would happen with such alarming regularity should it be introduced to destabilise the end game content

Edited January 13, 2014 by Vhaegrant

[Kissakias]

Yea lets hear it out

I would rather pay to be able to change my AC, rather then have to level up to 55 again.

That's my opinion, lets hear yours.

 

i prefer to pay with cartel coins to transform a BoP item into a BoE / BoL

[SilverangelXx]

Agree with the OP. If players don't like their AC, late in the game, they are more likely to just quit than start all over. It is in any game developer's best interest to allow players to have a character they enjoy playing. I'm a new player, and I find this system restrictive compared to letting one character do a lot more, i.e. in Rift. EQ Next will also allow this. ESO will also more flexible but still has classes. For example, in ESO a Sith Warrior could use a blaster rifle if the situation called for it.

 

This is the current trend. Older MMOs like LotRO and SWTOR would do well to become more flexible.

[Glowrod]

Yea lets hear it out

I would rather pay to be able to change my AC, rather then have to level up to 55 again.

That's my opinion, lets hear yours.

 

Sounds to me like you hate leveling and love end-game content, and are really just looking for a way to skip right to the end.

 

Others, like me, are the opposite. I love leveling and hate end-game content. For me, the game is over once I max a toon and I reroll and start again.

 

Seems to me that the ideal solution would be to find a way to let people like me securely level your toon for you, for a fee. Maybe for a couple million credits, I can sell you one of my maxed toons, for example...

[ItachiZaku]

I'm a little torn. I like leveling a new AC, just to learn how to do it. I would never switch my 55 Sorc to dps, I just wouldn't "feel" it.

 

At the same time, so many other games have ruined this for us, I mean, rift has 5 specs, wow has 2, it feels very gimpy to be able to just switch at a moments notice. Maybe if they had a long CD involved. Maybe pay 10 million credits to unlock the ability to chance AC, and then have the CD be a week long. Legacy perks can cut it down to a maximum of maybe 1 day.

[illgot]

I have one of every class and sub class. It is not hard to learn how to use them and I came back after nearly 2 years of not playing.

 

This game is not hard. There is no single aspect of this game I would deem difficult to learn. Anyone using that excuse needs to go out in real life and learn what hard really means.

[-Slaughterhouse-]

Other games have had ability to respec to completely different classes, but often those games had number of character per server limits, so there was a good reason to have that option.

 

i support the idea of not just changing the Advanced Class, but complete change of base class, but.....

with a cost and once per 6 months, and/or cartel coin cost that would need 6 months of saving free cartel or paying for them, at a cost of 20 bucks, with the once per 6 months, no matter what.

 

what would be the harm?

 

a person can change, and bioware gets more money, and it can't be abused due to the 6 month period.

[Quraswren]

I think it's a good idea. SWTOR is one of the only games setup where this would work out as a paid option but with some minor restrictions. 3 month account cool down with a coin cost amounting to what a character transfer would cost.

 

IT would sure bring life back into some toons. I hated the scoundrel but everyone kept telling me, "Oh it's gets better later." So I kept leveling it. I still hate it and he's a dead level 55 that does nothing but send companions out for mats/missions.

 

However, I tried a friends gunslinger. I enjoyed that. I will not level the same toon twice and go through the same story and quests. It's bad enough to do the same side quests a second or 8th time on different toons but to do the same story as well. Sorry but thats just not going to happen.

 

An advance class change would get me one more toon to play that is currently dead.

[Pirana]

I'm a little torn. I like leveling a new AC, just to learn how to do it. I would never switch my 55 Sorc to dps, I just wouldn't "feel" it.

 

Maybe if they had a long CD involved. Maybe pay 10 million credits to unlock the ability to chance AC, and then have the CD be a week long.

 

Same. Always been kind of on the fence on this one. If it is ever implemented, there certainly needs to a steep price no matter the denomination. Two years and counting, don't bet on it.

[Akrian]

Other games have had ability to respec to completely different classes, but often those games had number of character per server limits, so there was a good reason to have that option.

 

i support the idea of not just changing the Advanced Class, but complete change of base class, but.....

with a cost and once per 6 months, and/or cartel coin cost that would need 6 months of saving free cartel or paying for them, at a cost of 20 bucks, with the once per 6 months, no matter what.

 

what would be the harm?

 

a person can change, and bioware gets more money, and it can't be abused due to the 6 month period.

 

Changing base class will never happen. Your characters track so much information and you are proposing to wipe all of that, just so you can avoid making a new character. Just an example of some of the things that would need to be reset, companions removed, crafting skills reset to zero and removed, ship access removed since you have not been awarded the ship for the new class, all quest data since I seriously doubt they are going to create a system to simply reset just the class quest information.

 

So now you have a blank slate character, that just happens to be level 55. Congratulations, now go run your class storyline, pick a new AC then come on the forums crying that the new class is not what you wanted, nor is the new AC and you want to a refund and switched back to your old class at the same point in the storyline you left off at, which will of course be impossible since all that data was deleted.

[Glower]

Changing base class will never happen. Your characters track so much information and you are proposing to wipe all of that, just so you can avoid making a new character. Just an example of some of the things that would need to be reset, companions removed, crafting skills reset to zero and removed, ship access removed since you have not been awarded the ship for the new class, all quest data since I seriously doubt they are going to create a system to simply reset just the class quest information.

 

So now you have a blank slate character, that just happens to be level 55. Congratulations, now go run your class storyline, pick a new AC then come on the forums crying that the new class is not what you wanted, nor is the new AC and you want to a refund and switched back to your old class at the same point in the storyline you left off at, which will of course be impossible since all that data was deleted.

 

Man, character generator can do this. Like in Mass effect 2 or Mass effect 3.

[DarthTHC]

I was a staunch advocate of this for a good long while. But these days I can't for the life of me figure out why we'd really need to do that.

 

Every Tank and Healer spec has a DPS side-spec that you can get, as a subscriber, for free whenever you want it. I can switch between Tank & DPS or Healer & DPS whenever I want to.

 

I can't imagine I would ever want to switch myself from tank to healer or vice-versa, which is the only benefit changing AC would provide.

 

I feel (somewhat) for people who chose the "wrong" AC at the start. But they did have ample warning and if they don't like tanking or healing they can always do a DD spec, right?

 

Things I'd like to see long, long before changing my AC:

 

1) The ability to change companion roles. For example, I really, really want Nadia to heal.

 

2) The ability to set my character's gear appearance separately from gear stats. I just changed my main character's look and I found the whole mod swapping thing to be tedious and frustrating, not to mention expensive.

 

3) Additional features and functions for guilds.

 

4) More playable content, selfishly for me, PvE content especially. But I wouldn't argue with any type of real, new content be it space, PvP, GSF, whatever.

 

5) More variety in gear, mounts, pets, etc. on CM.

 

I guess basically I'd prioritize "everything else in the game" ahead of changing AC.

Edited January 13, 2014 by DarthTHC

[Jeweledleah]

You do know that a race unlock is COSMETIC only and has NO bearing on how a class plays, right? A Chiss commando plays EXACTLY the same as a human commando or a commando of any other race. A Chiss commando plays VERY DIFFERENTLY than a Chiss vanguard.

 

oh. you again.

 

Did you know that a chiss commando healer plays completely different from a chiss gunnery commando, plays completely differently from a chiss assault specialist commando? you would if you tried playing them. and yet, we can switch between those on a fly. and most people pick a spec and level with it, so if/when they want to play a tree they haven't before WITHIN their advance class? they "gasp" have to learn it and gear for it. in current state of the game

 

advanced class is an arbitrary restriction, just like appearance is. and in terms of role playing - changing your race affects your character a lot more then changing your AC.

 

which is why I brought up race. not only you didn't need to level up as that race to access it on every character, not since 1.2 now you don't even need to reroll to play a character of a different race. so restrictions DO get removed when they are arbitrary enough.

 

and yes AC is arbitrary. claiming that learning different AC is the reason... I'm sorry, but no one learns different AC. they learn different spec WITHIN the AC. playing AC form 1 to 55 does nothing to teach you how to play all 3 trees it offers, let alone all the possible specs (and there are more than 3, one of the things I love about this game is that its hybrid friendly) you have to learn how to play a spec regardless.

 

or are you offering to restrict respecs as well now? that someone who didn't level say as a healer.. should not have access to healing at 55 (and vice versa)? since they have no idea how to heal, not having leveled with it? becasue honestly, that's exactly what this "they don't know how to play it" reasoning sounds like.

[Jeweledleah]

I'm a little torn. I like leveling a new AC, just to learn how to do it. I would never switch my 55 Sorc to dps, I just wouldn't "feel" it.

 

At the same time, so many other games have ruined this for us, I mean, rift has 5 specs, wow has 2, it feels very gimpy to be able to just switch at a moments notice. Maybe if they had a long CD involved. Maybe pay 10 million credits to unlock the ability to chance AC, and then have the CD be a week long. Legacy perks can cut it down to a maximum of maybe 1 day.

 

you do realize that SWTOR currently has unlimited respecs that you can do on a fly, right? 200k legacy unlock and go nuts - respec to your heart's content. the only difference is that it doesn't save presets.

 

hell last night in ops, one of my guildies switched specs for every. single. boss. reset and redid the talents, changed keybinds, changed abilities on the bars, the whole deal.

 

cat's out of the bag on this one.

[astrobearx]

oh look...its this topic again. good lucking arguing semantics over whether a AC is a real class or not. i assured you that is as far this debate will get.