Svarthrafn Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) Look, I get that you want to claim your favorite class of ships is balanced, but base evasion of 41% is very high, and increasing accuracy of weapons through upgrades and companion, you're increasing accuracy by no more than 10-11%, in most cases 8-9%. That leaves them with substantial evade, you have not offset it by that much. The only weapons that have a base of over 100% accuracy to start with are burst lasers at 500m (which, at 500m, even against still targets you miss most of the time because of the game engine or something), 3000m II think 109%? not sure if that's upgraded with crew and upgrades or not) and ion railgun has an accuracy of 105% I think. Even using those, you have a substantial penalty from their passive evade. It is a large advantage. I fly a Quell, bro. My heavy lasers have 106% accuracy without the active. Against a scout with 41% evasion, I still hit 65% of the time. If I use my cooldown, I hit 85% of the time. If they then decide to pop distortion field, I still land 20% of my shots. Look, I get that you can't be bothered to change your loadout or playstyle to adapt to the circumstances, but... Edited January 10, 2014 by Svarthrafn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lymain Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) I fly a Quell, bro. My heavy lasers have 106% accuracy without the active. Against a scout with 41% evasion, I still hit 65% of the time. If I use my cooldown, I hit 85% of the time. If they're near a Sensor Beacon, you hit 75% of the time. If someone put In Your Sights on them, you hit 95% of the time. Edited January 10, 2014 by Lymain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imaslicer Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) Sting is the least ugly imperial ship Edited January 10, 2014 by Imaslicer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthVindictus Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 Sting is the least ugly imperial ship They'll remain good looking after they get properly balanced I assure you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archifikoss Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Since the bomber is going to make its way into the game soon and from what I've read has a lot of tools to mess up either type of scout, maybe you should hold on to the nerf complaints for now OP and see where the new status quo will take us. Also... I'm sorry about my small page 1 outburst. It's just that I dislike typical nerf threads in general (though they are often warranted it's still annoying), and I actually feel you're doing yourself a disservice by "whining" as you do seem to be knowledgeable about GSF and have at least used proper argumentation in your posts (and responded very civilly to me)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthVindictus Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 Since the bomber is going to make its way into the game soon and from what I've read has a lot of tools to mess up either type of scout, maybe you should hold on to the nerf complaints for now OP and see where the new status quo will take us. Also... I'm sorry about my small page 1 outburst. It's just that I dislike typical nerf threads in general (though they are often warranted it's still annoying), and I actually feel you're doing yourself a disservice by "whining" as you do seem to be knowledgeable about GSF and have at least used proper argumentation in your posts (and responded very civilly to me)... I usually don't like calling for nerfs either, it's just this design philosophy is just so baffling to me that I have to point out SOMETHING about it. No other game that I've played gave the fastest, most maneuverable ships, tanks, planes, whatever, the best options for weapons on top of it and cooldowns to make them do more offensive damage. Most people can look at that and say "duh, those will be the dominant ships/planes/tanks if you do that, they can rush any objective, and their speed and maneuverability more than makes up for any missing defenses in a fight if they have the firepower to outgun their opponents" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain_Turinbar Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Why specifically the flashfire? I think the the CM IL-5/IL-7 scout starts out with much better equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armonddd Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Why specifically the flashfire? I think the the CM IL-5/IL-7 scout starts out with much better equipment. no one cares about starting equipment, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthVindictus Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 Why specifically the flashfire? I think the the CM IL-5/IL-7 scout starts out with much better equipment. Flashfire or Sting, the Tier 2's. I just call out the flashfires because that's what I see more of, when I'm flying republic side it's rare to see more than 3 stings, but when I'm flying Imperial side I never see less than 2 flashfires, commonly see 4+, nobody that has a flashfire available ever pilots anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armonddd Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I fly a Quell, bro. My heavy lasers have 106% accuracy without the active. Against a scout with 41% evasion, I still hit 65% of the time. If I use my cooldown, I hit 85% of the time. If they then decide to pop distortion field, I still land 20% of my shots. Look, I get that you can't be bothered to change your loadout or playstyle to adapt to the circumstances, but... Compare that to a scout with burst lasers, who has no need for an accuracy cooldown because his lasers have 123% base accuracy. Also, heavy lasers are really bad up close, which means they'll do damage towards the low end of their range. Also, the Quell's engines are frankly terrible, so you couldn't get up close for more damage if you wanted to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain_Turinbar Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 no one cares about starting equipment, lol But that's the only real difference because they have all the same components available to upgrade to. Add to that the fact that they don't even start off with Blaster Overcharge, you have to spend req to get it and it is the staple of flying a scout. THAT is why I bring up starting equipment. They have to purchase Burst lasers just like everyone else..........so why single them out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xyrmagus Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 They have to purchase Burst lasers just like everyone else..........so why single them out? Because not everyone even has the option for burst lasers (strike fighters) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armonddd Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 But that's the only real difference because they have all the same components available to upgrade to. I think you're misunderstanding - the problem isn't that the Flashfire and Sting are better than their cartel equivalents (because they're not), the problem is that the Flashfire and Sting are amazing at their jobs and strike fighters are, currently, merely mediocre at their jobs. Add to that the fact that they don't even start off with Blaster Overcharge, you have to spend req to get it and it is the staple of flying a scout. THAT is why I bring up starting equipment. They have to purchase Burst lasers just like everyone else..........so why single them out? Again, starting equipment means nothing. You spend maybe 10k requisition to change out your starting components for the good ones... compared to ~130k to fully upgrade the good ones. Also, lol, blaster overcharge. Concentrated Fire and Bypass are good enough cooldowns, you don't need blaster overcharge on top of that (especially when the opportunity cost is booster recharge, which is simply amazing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain_Turinbar Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) I think you're misunderstanding - the problem isn't that the Flashfire and Sting are better than their cartel equivalents (because they're not), the problem is that the Flashfire and Sting are amazing at their jobs and strike fighters are, currently, merely mediocre at their jobs. Again, starting equipment means nothing. You spend maybe 10k requisition to change out your starting components for the good ones... compared to ~130k to fully upgrade the good ones. Also, lol, blaster overcharge. Concentrated Fire and Bypass are good enough cooldowns, you don't need blaster overcharge on top of that (especially when the opportunity cost is booster recharge, which is simply amazing). Fully upgraded quads + Fully upgraded Blaster Overcharge do a fairly insane level of damage though, love that combo in my IL-5. I know everyone else is in love with Burst Lasers but its what I like. I guess I get it then. From the title I thought this was a "Flashfire is OP" thread when really it is a "Scouts are OP" thread. I only brought up starting equipment because since that is the only real difference between the ships that had to be what people were crying about in my mind, but then I tried the Flashfire and really didn't see any difference from when my IL-5 was stock. Edited January 13, 2014 by Kain_Turinbar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armonddd Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Fully upgraded quads + Fully upgraded Blaster Overcharge do a fairly insane level of damage though, love that combo in my IL-5. I know everyone else is in love with Burst Lasers but its what I like. I guess that's fair, but I get 1.2k-1.5k crits with burst cannons. And when you're chasing someone around a satellite (because satellites are what's important), you don't get enough time to make either quads or blaster overcharge really shine. I guess I get it then. From the title I thought this was a "Flashfire is OP" thread when really it is a "Scouts are OP" thread. I think the Novadive and Blackbolt are relatively fine, if not a bit weak - they get worse weapons, they lose out on a reactor, and they're forced to take barrel roll over retro thrusters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Shadowfist- Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Also, lol, blaster overcharge. Concentrated Fire and Bypass are good enough cooldowns, you don't need blaster overcharge on top of that (especially when the opportunity cost is booster recharge, which is simply amazing). This is kind of blatantly false. When you're not face stomping the competition like we're used to, and you're spending time on/around satellites defending and not able to move around much, booster recharge is absolute garbage and blaster overcharge is 1000x better. I've switched back to it on occasion for this purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armonddd Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 This is kind of blatantly false. When you're not face stomping the competition like we're used to, and you're spending time on/around satellites defending and not able to move around much, booster recharge is absolute garbage and blaster overcharge is 1000x better. I've switched back to it on occasion for this purpose. When I'm solo queueing, I bring booster recharge because I contribute more to my team by intercepting good players and getting to points PUGs are having difficulty taking. When I'm queueing with one of the guilds, I bring booster recharge so I can easily get to a point someone's having trouble with (whether that someone is in the premade or not). When I'm getting farmed, I bring booster recharge so I can get back into the thick of things faster. When I'm in a close match and I need to defend a node at all costs, I use booster recharge so I can zip around the satellite faster than the other guy can follow me. The only time blaster overcharge is better than booster recharge is when you spend most of the match chilling around one satellite popping people as they come in one by one. That happens very rarely for me (largely because I think it's boring), and I'm completely capable of taking them out without the cooldown, so I don't think it's worth bringing. If it's something you do a lot, well, full power to guns, punch holes in 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Shadowfist- Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 When I'm solo queueing, I bring booster recharge because I contribute more to my team by intercepting good players and getting to points PUGs are having difficulty taking. When I'm queueing with one of the guilds, I bring booster recharge so I can easily get to a point someone's having trouble with (whether that someone is in the premade or not). When I'm getting farmed, I bring booster recharge so I can get back into the thick of things faster. When I'm in a close match and I need to defend a node at all costs, I use booster recharge so I can zip around the satellite faster than the other guy can follow me. The only time blaster overcharge is better than booster recharge is when you spend most of the match chilling around one satellite popping people as they come in one by one. That happens very rarely for me (largely because I think it's boring), and I'm completely capable of taking them out without the cooldown, so I don't think it's worth bringing. If it's something you do a lot, well, full power to guns, punch holes in 'em. 1.) Booster recharge doesn't make you faster... it just lets you boost longer. So you're not going "faster" than anyone not using it. Unless you're constantly chasing targets, F3 is enough to boost to the various points around the map with your engine pool. You can further compensate for this by using regenerative thrusters if need be (though it's not really needed). 2.) If you're boosting so much around satellites that you some how manage to burn all of your boost pool, you're doing it wrong and you're probably not hugging close enough to the satellite to actually hold it. 3.) When you're "Getting farmed" (***, really?) you should be more concerned with quickly blowing them apart outside your spawn which overcharge blasters would help with. Using booster recharge to cover, what, 7k? That's just a waste seeing as getting farmed implies dying a lot, thus resetting the cool downs. 4. Stating that blaster overcharge is only good for "Chilling around a satellite popping people as they come in one by one" is hilariously wrong. That's not what it's good for at all. It's BEST used when tapping multiple targets thanks to A) its increased blaster pool regeneration and B) its increased damage/crit output, requiring fewer hits be made. So when I'm circling a satellite with multiple targets, I'm able to quickly refill my blaster pool when it gets low as well as eliminating them faster, enabling me to switch to F2 for shields and increased staying power without concern for blaster pool. You're looking at the ability completely wrong. I keep both builds on my sting/ocula and switch accordingly. In 12 v 12s with 8 baddie pugs on our team against 2 or 3 stacked premades on the other team that are going to go for control point domination because they can't go toe to toe in dog-fighting, blaster overcharge is blatantly superior for control point lock down. However, everyone's free to gimp themselves if they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 (edited) Oh please booster's value is that I can go from A to C go straight into speed dogfighting, then immediately boost back to C, instantly go into the fighting, pause for maybe two seconds than boost back to A. (or B) I can boost for dayz. Booster recharge= unlimited boost. I will also point out that Scouts will pretty much always die without exception when they run out of booster power. Also telemetery is better because it gives crit+crit multiplier and it gives a evasion reduction eon enemies and it boosts your own accuracy significantly which is awesome b/c it allows you when used with high accuracy weapons at correct range to shoot through the infamous Dfield. Edited January 14, 2014 by Zoom_VI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrinityLyre Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Also telemetery is better because it gives crit+crit multiplier and it gives a evasion reduction eon enemies and it boosts your own accuracy significantly which is awesome b/c it allows you when used with high accuracy weapons at correct range to shoot through the infamous Dfield. TT makes me... "warm." Also, it's saddening that Booster Recharge doesn't appear to be a thing anymore, with Tensor Field. But Bloodmarks/Spearpoints don't have rocket pods! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 TT makes me... "warm." Also, it's saddening that Booster Recharge doesn't appear to be a thing anymore, with Tensor Field. But Bloodmarks/Spearpoints don't have rocket pods! Is there any particular reason you had to respond to something I posted...10 months ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verain Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Scout week, I think! This was a pretty clutch prize too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALaggyGrunt Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Why is the Stingfire OP? Here's the list: They're very mobile. With a scout frame and thrusters component, they're very difficult to catch. Burst lasers. These are very good weapons for making every shot count. All close-range weapons, save for perhaps ion+cluster combo, are weaker in a proper fight, because nobody good will let you pick them apart longer than they have to, which is about the half-second they take to realize you're there. Cooldowns. Telemetry is crazy good all-around, and will be able to deal with cloakers when they come out. Blaster overcharge is positively brutal against things which don't stack evasion (basically bombers): I killed a bomber once with BO+CF in 3 shots once. Or, if you want to fly across the map without having to stop for some reason, booster recharge. Distortion Field. It sacrifices a little shield strength, but not getting hit is much, much better than getting hit. If your ship doesn't get hit, your shields will not be pierced, you will not be snared, and your energy will not be sapped and regen-debuffed. At tier 3, you don't even have to break off an attack to break a missile lock. Engine abilities. It has 4 good ones: power dive means you will be very mobile and extremely difficult to missile, retros make you a very scrappy dogfighter, and barrel roll is still a reasonably good good get-me-out-of-here maneuver, and Koiogran Turn is good for lock breaks in tight quarters. If you nerfed these, you would also have to nerf gunships, either directly or by making non-scout shields more resistant to railgun effects (pierce, snare, regen debuff, maybe burn) or by making them more vulnerable to not-Stingfires. In the hours I used to play on Harbinger, there would be a premade which would stack gunships like you wouldn't believe, and a few scouts weren't going to beat them. As far as I know, they're still doing it. A lot of them were weak pilots, but with 4+ buddies with railguns covering them (and someone in Mumble saying where the scouts are), that really didn't matter too much. Scouts are very good at keeping gunships' attention, but against multiple good gunships... well, you better have someone who can kill them really fast, because one scout won't last long enough to keep them properly busy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SammyGStatus Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 (edited) Scouts would still be good without RNG. Let's give removing RNG a try? Edited November 7, 2014 by SammyGStatus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolo_Yeung Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 I once saw a match with 8 Rycers...OPed totally (and yes, all 2-shipper team). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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