Mach 5 Massacre - In-Depth Marauder Guide

[TheRealBuju]

Thank you OP. Great post and def been helping my leveling.

 

Voted for stiky.

[Travex]

Lvl 32 Carnage Marauder here, just want to add my two cents about what I am doing. Specifically regarding the abilities you didn't mention/cover.

 

Retaliation - I use it whenever proc is up. Doesn't waste a GCD and it's only slightly weaker than Vicious Slash. Not sure if it will still be worth it once I get Massacre, however.

 

Pommel Strike - Very strong and does not cost Rage. Smash and Force Scream both stun weak and standard enemies allowing you to use this. I actually open on a group of enemies with something like Charge > Smash > Pommel > Battering Assault (this usually kills one) > Gore > Ravage. In Flashpoint/heroic situation you would have to wait for another party member to do a stun before you can use it since we don't have a stun that works on strong/champion mobs.

 

Force Choke - It's channeling and doesn't do great damage so it's not really worth it unless you are 1v1 with a mob. Apply Rupture first of course. While channeling it also stuns the enemy so that's great to allow cooldowns to refresh and also gives your companion extra time to attack them/heal you/whatever. I had a hard time with Strong quest mobs until I started using this actually. If your Jugg tank uses this (I'm not sure if this is optimal for them but I've seen some use it) it's a good time to Pommel Strike as well.

 

Feel free to correct me on anything wrong/stupid.

 

EDIT: Also wouldn't Surge be better for us than the other trees since we crit more via Frenzy > Force Scream.

Edited December 25, 2011 by Travex

[vizj]

good guide +1 sticky

[Kaczy]

Travex nice added few words and all of them true. GJ .

[Kodokai]

Nice. I am trying to figure out which way I want to take my Marauder. I want something I can level with, but do decent with in PVP.

 

Annihilation, Carnage is lacking compared. Smash & Deadly Saber/Sweeping Slash makes aoe packs drop like flies.

Edited December 25, 2011 by Kodokai

[holybeardman]

Below is my listed spec for Annihilation.

 

Hope it helps a bit. I absolutely love Annihilation because no matter what happens you are STILL damaging ERRYTHING! The lowered range of the charge mixed with the increased rage gain is huge for keeping up consistant damage. Constant refreshing of Deadly Saber is also mandatory. For the target you are destroying you should have a bleed up at all time whether its from Rupture or Deadly Saber. When fully ready to go the ability to toss out some (albiet small) heals to give a bit of a back up when fully proccing your berserk crit heals can also be beneficial. Around level 25 I was able to pop off some heals for roughly 80-100 per second with fully stacked bleeds.

 

Seeing as your damage in this spec also is less true damage, it also seems (in my experiences) to bring less agro your way making it THAT much easier to just unleash. If im wrong feel free to correct me!

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#100bIbRrRMcGzZhMbZh.1

[Kibaken]

Lvl 32 Carnage Marauder here, just want to add my two cents about what I am doing. Specifically regarding the abilities you didn't mention/cover.

 

Retaliation - I use it whenever proc is up. Doesn't waste a GCD and it's only slightly weaker than Vicious Slash. Not sure if it will still be worth it once I get Massacre, however.

 

Pommel Strike - Very strong and does not cost Rage. Smash and Force Scream both stun weak and standard enemies allowing you to use this. I actually open on a group of enemies with something like Charge > Smash > Pommel > Battering Assault (this usually kills one) > Gore > Ravage. In Flashpoint/heroic situation you would have to wait for another party member to do a stun before you can use it since we don't have a stun that works on strong/champion mobs.

 

Force Choke - It's channeling and doesn't do great damage so it's not really worth it unless you are 1v1 with a mob. Apply Rupture first of course. While channeling it also stuns the enemy so that's great to allow cooldowns to refresh and also gives your companion extra time to attack them/heal you/whatever. I had a hard time with Strong quest mobs until I started using this actually. If your Jugg tank uses this (I'm not sure if this is optimal for them but I've seen some use it) it's a good time to Pommel Strike as well.

 

Feel free to correct me on anything wrong/stupid.

 

EDIT: Also wouldn't Surge be better for us than the other trees since we crit more via Frenzy > Force Scream.

 

 

I'm writing this guide more so in order to help people excel in end-game and less than a leveling guide.

 

Retaliation is actually a bit of a waste of Rage in a boss-rotation sense, however for quick dispatches in leveling it works well.

 

In the same case, Pommel Strike isn't usable on Champion mobs (bosses/players), but I will say with Charge -> Kick -> *tab* -> Smash -> Pommel I'm able to dispatch two normal mobs in four moves, a godsend for elite packs.

 

As for Choke, I use it more a CC and secondary Interrupt and it's great for when I'm about to die: pop that up and wait for Scream/Ravage to come back up and let Jaesa beat on them. Again, though, in an end-game rotation Choke has no place.

 

You mentioned Rupture as well, which, again, you won't be using at all as Carnage and it's a waste of Rage (You really don't even need it on your bar.) You're better off using Massacre/Vicious Slash.

 

 

In the case of Surge, if you look at how far down Scream is on our priority and the fact that it's insta-crit is the main reason Crit/Surge is weak for us compared to Power/Accuracy. Since one of our priority abilities has an insta-crit component to it Crit's value is automatically de-valued because it's no longer affecting one of our abilities. For the same reason, Surge's value is heavily dependent on what our Crit stat is. If Crit is de-valued Surge will be as well because that stat depends solely on a critical strike. If you look at what power does, though, you'll see how prioritizing that is very similar to prioritizing Surge. You'll more than likely always find Surge under Crit for every class' stat priorities.

 

If we include the 30% critical damage increase from Sever and, for fun, the 10% damage increase from Execute Scream is going to hit like a truckload of cocaine. If we increase the base damage of Scream by stacking Power we're essentially able to do the same thing as Surge does because instead of increasing the multiplying factor we're increasing the base to multiply. Sever is more/less all the Surge we'll need, and you'll find the Crit/Surge focusing spec will be Annihilation due to the bleed crit heals and crit + damage. If Scream's critical chance was only increased by, say, 80%, Crit and Surge would be highly sought to try to bridge that 20% gap and then further increase all crits through Surge, but this is not the case.

 

 

Annihilation, Carnage is lacking compared. Smash & Deadly Saber/Sweeping Slash makes aoe packs drop like flies.

 

As I've stated, Carnage all-around damage wise is quite weak without it's core talents (Towering Rage, Gore and Massacre). Without these it's quite weak in PvP, however still doable. I have a feeling that, due to the added mobility with Obliterate, Rage will become the PvP spec of choice, however I know all 3 are at least viable and I'll need to play around. If you're playing in a group, get a Guard on you and have a pocket healer and no matter what spec you are you'll be wiping the floor with people. Pro-tip: use Deadly Throw and kill the healer ;]

Edited December 25, 2011 by Kibaken

[Kibaken]

 

Seeing as your damage in this spec also is less true damage, it also seems (in my experiences) to bring less agro your way making it THAT much easier to just unleash. If im wrong feel free to correct me!

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#100bIbRrRMcGzZhMbZh.1

 

Your spec is spot on - as I said in the guide there really isn't much wiggle room besides filler (and Annihilation actually has the most blatantly obvious PvE/PvP filler).

 

However bleeds (internal damage) are actually the "true" damage you speak of because they ignore armor. True damage is damage that isn't affected by any sort of resistances. You are right, though, Annihilation is going to be a lot harder to pull aggro with because the damage isn't bursty. On a Parse with Carnage you'll see distinct spikes when you use Gore, Ravage and Scream compared to the flat-line Massacre spam. With Annihilation there's going to be very few spikes and the flat-line will actually be higher than Carnage's (it's burst makes up to average the two specs out).

 

Because the damage is over-time it will be very hard to pull aggro, but you will be doing "true" damage.

[Switchfire]

When is Anni coming?

[Munx]

The post looks well structured but I struggled to keep my mind off:

 

Easy to learn/Difficult to master mechanics

 

It should be Difficult to learn/Korean power game to master.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Munx

[Kibaken]

The post looks well structured but I struggled to keep my mind off:

 

Easy to learn/Difficult to master mechanics

 

It should be Difficult to learn/Korean power game to master.

 

 

el oh el'd irl.

 

The majorly difficult part is in fact the awareness and management of your cooldowns, so in theory it is kind of Korean

[kaelthun]

I'm on a carnage tree build at the moment as well. I took more of a PvP spec obviously for levelling. The added control makes for better fun in warzones Can't wait for your treatments of anni and rage though. I'll be bookmarking this.

[Korvad]

48 marauder pvp here, annihilation spec.

 

Just à little commentary about the rage spec. The obliteration skill tends to not be effective in his gap closer function.

 

Example ? You're barely at the right reach to cast it (10 m) but when you activate it you never reach the target and get on the floor at mid range.

And, for a second gap-closer, it's really poor in reliability.

[OverkillXD]

I might be a Carnage Mara now lol

[Vinadin]

LvL 45 Carnage Marauder....I've tried all 3 specs out and i will say this...This is the only spec that actually seems to do really...REALLY good damage...Gore+Ravage=Godly Damage. I also noticed that during mid-fight i can keep Massacre buff up the entire time for more Ataru procs.

 

Annihilation has too many buttons to press...I do like annihilate...but I wish deadly saber was just a passive chance on proc. This spec makes my hands hurt

 

Rage: Very CD dependent for damage purpose and only shines at lvl 40. relies on Defensive Form and Cloak of Carnage passive talents for optimal rage generation. I would only use that spec for PvP. 3k Smash on players will make your Epeen grow.

[twendall]

Very interesting

 

vote sticky

[carbontype]

Thanks! excellent guide.

[fusrodahz]

A note for the Carnage rotation, Battering Assault should be the opener after Charge, wasting a GCD for Battering Assault with Gore up isn't optimal and it's better to have the rage to spend on higher damage abilities.

[Kibaken]

A note for the Carnage rotation, Battering Assault should be the opener after Charge, wasting a GCD for Battering Assault with Gore up isn't optimal and it's better to have the rage to spend on higher damage abilities.

 

I can understand where you're coming from with this, however after using Gore and Battering Assault as long as you use Ravage before the Gore debuff wears off the entire ability gets the bonus Armor Pen.

Edited December 27, 2011 by Kibaken

[Thunn]

I've enjoyed reading the guide to this point. Eagerly anticipating the in-depth look at Annihilation.

[kopecs]

this helped me out tons. thanks a lot!

[venaliter]

great read. thanks for the post.

[Fourarms]

Sticky this please, I hate having to search for it.

[JCDIP]

Looking forward to Annihilation & Rage

[Darth_Bruzer]

Sticky and Sub.