$100 in a couple clicks. SCARY.

[DimmuJanKaarl]

so I noticed the new option when buying cc's in-game: 14,500cc for $99.99. I find this to be really scary. maybe those of us who never buy cc's don't think it's a big deal, but imo buying cm packs IS gambling just without a potential for rl cash returns. a gambling addict will pay real money for a chance to win anything with perceived value as gambling addiction has similar psychological and physiological effects as drug addiction, where a person with gambling addiction really is addicted to the neurochemicals released by the brain's reward center. mix with that the collections feature which is both the bane and wet dream of anyone with ocd and this adds up to a real problem for some people.

 

I also want to take this opportunity to start a petition asking devs to include with the in-game cc purchase tool information recognizing the signs of gambling addiction and how one can get help if they recognize those signs in themselves or someone they know.

 

let's discuss.

 

ps-reading back over my post i can see where this might look like one of those troll/joke posts that certain others often do, but I assure you it is not and I am quite serious.

Edited December 12, 2013 by DimmuJanKaarl
typo

[Infernixx]

so I noticed the new option when buying cc's in-game: 14,500cc for $99.99. I find this to be really scary. maybe those of us who never buy cc's don't think it's a big deal, but imo buying cm packs IS gambling just without a potential for rl cash returns. a gambling addict will pay real money for a chance to win anything with perceived value as gambling addiction has similar psychological and physiological effects as drug addiction, where a person with gambling addiction really is addicted to the neurochemicals released by the brain's reward center. mix with that the collections feature which is both the bane and wet dream of anyone with ocd and this adds up to a real problem for some people.

 

I also want to take this opportunity to start a petition asking devs to include with the in-game cc purchase tool information recognizing the signs of gambling addiction and how one can get help if they recognize those signs in themselves or someone they know.

 

let's discuss.

 

ps-reading back over my post i can see where this might look like one of those troll/joke posts that certain others often do, but I assure you it is not and I am quite serious.

 

Gambling is defined as betting money with a real chance of gaining nothing in return. Slot machines are gambling devices. Casinos operate on a 'gambling' approach. Many people enter with a pocket full of money and leave with nothing, or owing money to the casino in the worst case.

 

What we deal with in TOR is a 'grab bag' concept. You spend real money to get a certain number of items that you're guaranteed to get in return for your Cartel Coins.

 

There is no risk whatsoever of walking away empty handed. You 'will' get a certain number of items, with some of them being rarer than others. Each pack has it listed.

 

So...no. This is not gambling.

[OddballEasyEight]

There has already been plenty of threads discussing wether or not cartel packs and the cartel market in general is gambling.

And the general consensus was that it is not gambling.

No more than buying 20 kid's meals at mcdonalds just to get the toy you want, is.

[HoboWithAStick]

The CM packs is gambling, that's not opinion its fact. They depend on people spending their money like crazy just like casinos do. I don't know if they are required by law to follow some gambling rules but they should.

[Jacen_Starsolo]

What you're asking for BW to do, has the $100 coins thing caused it but not the lessor amounts?

 

And who is to say they will use that on packs? Someone might be using it for something else like transfers.

[Infernixx]

The CM packs is gambling, that's not opinion its fact. They depend on people spending their money like crazy just like casinos do. I don't know if they are required by law to follow some gambling rules but they should.

 

No, it's not. You might want it to be gambling, but it's not. Sorry.

[gorstram]

so I noticed the new option when buying cc's in-game: 14,500cc for $99.99. I find this to be really scary. maybe those of us who never buy cc's don't think it's a big deal, but imo buying cm packs IS gambling just without a potential for rl cash returns. a gambling addict will pay real money for a chance to win anything with perceived value as gambling addiction has similar psychological and physiological effects as drug addiction, where a person with gambling addiction really is addicted to the neurochemicals released by the brain's reward center. mix with that the collections feature which is both the bane and wet dream of anyone with ocd and this adds up to a real problem for some people.

 

I also want to take this opportunity to start a petition asking devs to include with the in-game cc purchase tool information recognizing the signs of gambling addiction and how one can get help if they recognize those signs in themselves or someone they know.

 

let's discuss.

 

ps-reading back over my post i can see where this might look like one of those troll/joke posts that certain others often do, but I assure you it is not and I am quite serious.

 

I am sure you are quite serious. I would not have a problem with a warning message if anything, it would add a layer of legal protection to EA/BW, that way if they were ever taken to court (say by a former player who's name is the second part of the Jimmy Hendricks tune Purple _____) then they could say that he was given a clickable warning prior to purchasing the coins, and the subsequent gambling packs.

 

But I do sympathize with the plight of online gamblers. One of my RL friends struggled with the issue for quite some time, and I had the terrible privilege of attending the intervention for him. He's much better now, but he would never be able to handle something like the gambling packs, even in his present state. So I really hope this new option doesn't drive anyone to financial rock bottom.

 

I know I won't be able to use it. My wife barely tolerates the occasional 39.99 expenditures for cartel coins. If she saw a $100 purchase, I'm pretty sure she'd castrate me.

[HoboWithAStick]

No, it's not. You might want it to be gambling, but it's not. Sorry.

 

You can call it what you want, at the end of the day most people are going to agree that this is gambling. Hell almost every single talkshow/Reviewer personality calls these things "Lottery Boxes".

 

A guy that used to be in my guild spent over $1000 bucks on these packs, does he have a grab bag addiction or a gambling addiction?

[Infernixx]

I am sure you are quite serious. I would not have a problem with a warning message if anything, it would add a layer of legal protection to EA/BW, that way if they were ever taken to court (say by a former player who's name is the second part of the Jimmy Hendricks tune Purple _____) then they could say that he was given a clickable warning prior to purchasing the coins, and the subsequent gambling packs.

 

But I do sympathize with the plight of online gamblers. One of my RL friends struggled with the issue for quite some time, and I had the terrible privilege of attending the intervention for him. He's much better now, but he would never be able to handle something like the gambling packs, even in his present state. So I really hope this new option doesn't drive anyone to financial rock bottom.

 

I know I won't be able to use it. My wife barely tolerates the occasional 39.99 expenditures for cartel coins. If she saw a $100 purchase, I'm pretty sure she'd castrate me.

 

Two things to add to this:

 

1) The fact that they're offering a $100 option, programming it, pixelating it, adding it into the existing system, means that there are enough people out there buying CCs in huge amounts that this is seen as a viable option for those high-end buyers to get more bang for their buck.

 

I could never spend $100 on such a thing, but if there are enough people out there to make it a worthwhile addition to the game, more power to em. Every dollar spent on the CM is another dollar for developing new content.

 

2) WoW just introduced their own version of the CM, an in-game market, selling pets at $5 a piece, on sale. Translated out into CCs, that's about 725cc per $5 purchase. For a pet. With that firmly in mind, do the CM prices seem that bad in comparison?

 

Oh, and there's a minor furor going on over there that's being ruthlessly suppressed via deletion and suspension, as it becomes apparent that WoW is going the 'hybrid' route and is no longer the last bastion of 'sub only' MMO players.

[TUXs]

If you can't avoid buying the packs, Bioware will do no worse with your money than you do. Remove your credit card info or seek help. Bioware is here to make $, not do gamblers a public service.

[DOHboy]

Post says its legit...must be legit.

 

 

A) Options are not the same since they are tied to the online account options, would expect for it to be seen there first before in game.

B) its not gambling, no more than say card games, fishing, etc. old argument is old and has no basis on reality.

C) We're all adults if you are not capable of making adult decisions and require other people to hold your hand society has larger issues. Yes gambling addition is real, however, with gambling addiction it is the LOSSES the drive everything. The gamblers trying to overcome past losses with future winnings. This game would be more attuned to a hoarder or shop-a-holic (need more shoes when have a closet full of shoes).

D) Might as well toss in the argument that OCD is a mental disorder and having things like "collections and achievements" is praying on the OCD of "completionists"

 

Since you have now made this an emotional argument "gambling addiction is bad, this game is gambling, thus EA is evil" anything I say in response will not sway one way or another on how that is illogical, irrational and has no meaning and IMO this thread should be deleted as it is not positing anything constructive, is just rehasing old arguments for the sake of arguing.

 

We might was well go back to the copy/paste new engine argument, at least that had technical details that can be argued rather than the emotional context this will take.

 

Tl;dr of this thread..gambling is bad..mmmkay...they are evil for feeding the addiction..mmkay

[Infernixx]

You can call it what you want, at the end of the day most people are going to agree that this is gambling. Hell almost every single talkshow/Reviewer personality calls these things "Lottery Boxes".

 

A guy that used to be in my guild spent over $1000 bucks on these packs, does he have a grab bag addiction or a gambling addiction?

 

He has poor impulse control and zero self-control. But, I guarantee you that he has several Cargo Bays full of crap in return for his $1000.

 

He didn't risk a single dollar. He got exactly what he paid for. When there's no risk, it's not gambling. Sorry.

[MillionsKNives]

1) It's not gambling.

2) There is a CC purchasing limit.

[DOHboy]

The CM packs is gambling, that's not opinion its fact. They depend on people spending their money like crazy just like casinos do. I don't know if they are required by law to follow some gambling rules but they should.

 

fact: I don't think you are using it the way it should.

 

a) not all "games" of "chance" constitute gambling... i.e fishing, collectable cards etc.

b) not all "chance" is "gambling" in the sense people use it here...flying is not "gambling" with ones life..since there is a "chance" you could die while flying.

c) we are all adults and can make adult decisions if you are not capable of making an adult decision you need more help than can be provided by this thread.

d) Gambling laws are NOT there to protect YOU...they are there so government can TAX the revenues from proceedes of gambling. There are NO..zero..zilch..laws against gambling...there are laws against UNREGULATED gambling due to the FACT that no taxes and fees (i.e. permits) are collected.

 

You would have a better argument for shop-aholics or OCD than "gambling" but because gambling is more emotional than those others..go with it.

[Gaudrath]

Of course it is gambling and anyone claiming otherwise is just deluding themselves. I do not care for legal definitions, they're important to lawyers who live in their own little world.

 

What we have in CM, and indeed in pretty much any other virtual shop offering a *chance* to get something of value, is pure gambling in digital form. You spend something of value, for a *chance* to get something you want. Thus it is a game of chance, otherwise known as gambling.

 

End of discussion.

[gorstram]

He has poor impulse control and zero self-control. But, I guarantee you that he has several Cargo Bays full of crap in return for his $1000.

 

He didn't risk a single dollar. He got exactly what he paid for. When there's no risk, it's not gambling. Sorry.

 

I certainly am not saying that it is gambling, I call them gambling packs because I believe that the pack is basically just a MMO version of a slot machine, and that you're spinning to get super rares. But I can agree with you that it's not technically gambling since you get something with every pack. Hell even if all you got were those lame XP boosts, it technically wouldn't be gambling.

 

But for someone with no impulse control i.e. a gambling addict, those boxes are a compulsion. If I hadn't witnessed this kind of obsession in real life, I would be mirroring your exact sentiment.

 

I agree with the OP that BW/EA should at least post some kind of warning. I don't even know how it should be worded, but I think a cheap warning is better than nothing at all.

[Infernixx]

I certainly am not saying that it is gambling, I call them gambling packs because I believe that the pack is basically just a MMO version of a slot machine, and that you're spinning to get super rares. But I can agree with you that it's not technically gambling since you get something with every pack. Hell even if all you got were those lame XP boosts, it technically wouldn't be gambling.

 

But for someone with no impulse control i.e. a gambling addict, those boxes are a compulsion. If I hadn't witnessed this kind of obsession in real life, I would be mirroring your exact sentiment.

 

I agree with the OP that BW/EA should at least post some kind of warning. I don't even know how it should be worded, but I think a cheap warning is better than nothing at all.

 

I'm sorry, but I see no reason to add yet another layer of protection that these 'addicts' will simply ignore. Unless you think that a posted warning will be enough to penetrate their haze of 'gotta have em all!' mania and convince the addicts to log off.

 

At some point, everyone has to take responsibility for their actions and yes, that includes 'addicts' who have too much money and not enough sense.

[gorstram]

Of course it is gambling and anyone claiming otherwise is just deluding themselves. I do not care for legal definitions, they're important to lawyers who live in their own little world.

 

What we have in CM, and indeed in pretty much any other virtual shop offering a *chance* to get something of value, is pure gambling in digital form. You spend something of value, for a *chance* to get something you want. Thus it is a game of chance, otherwise known as gambling.

 

End of discussion.

 

I disagree with you, good sir. This is not a discussion that can be handled with absolutes. Your opinion is noted, and has been mirrored by others, but is NOT considered fact

[DOHboy]

You can call it what you want, at the end of the day most people are going to agree that this is gambling. Hell almost every single talkshow/Reviewer personality calls these things "Lottery Boxes".

 

A guy that used to be in my guild spent over $1000 bucks on these packs, does he have a grab bag addiction or a gambling addiction?

 

neither he has a varactyl fetish....

 

I've spent that much..never been in a casino...EVER. I can't stand spending more than say $20 at a Blackjack table where there are charitable gaming.

 

I stopped collecting Baseball cards when I was old enough to have a job. I stopped playing MTG after 1997.

 

I don't have either a gamblign addition nor a "grab bag" addiction. I have a job that pays well, single, no real huge bills, and thus have some free money to spend how i see fit. I dont' eat out, don't go to alot of movies. Don't drive very often thus save on gas. Don't do much for entertainmetn OTHER Than this game.

 

so what exactly is my "addiction", "malfunction" or other "condition" that MUST be regulated and protected agaisnt at all cost that I myself can not handle?

[gorstram]

I'm sorry, but I see no reason to add yet another layer of protection that these 'addicts' will simply ignore. Unless you think that a posted warning will be enough to penetrate their haze of 'gotta have em all!' mania and convince the addicts to log off.

 

At some point, everyone has to take responsibility for their actions and yes, that includes 'addicts' who have too much money and not enough sense.

 

If someone is in the depths of their addiction, that warning won't stop them at all. But legally, it would be an added layer of protection, and since this game is my hobby, I would consider that warning a good investment at keeping the game around and solvent... with no pesky lawsuit settlements.

[DAMossimo]

so I noticed the new option when buying cc's in-game: 14,500cc for $99.99.

 

Funny, I don't have this option either in-game or via the website (not that I would even remotely want the ability to spend such a foolish amount of money on a game).

 

Is this displayed only for people who have spent a fortune on cartel coins in the past?

[Infernixx]

If someone is in the depths of their addiction, that warning won't stop them at all. But legally, it would be an added layer of protection, and since this game is my hobby, I would consider that warning a good investment at keeping the game around and solvent... with no pesky lawsuit settlements.

 

I trust the radioactive zombie lawyers at BW/EA to cover TOR's butt sufficiently. That's what they're paid for.

[MillionsKNives]

so what exactly is my "addiction", "malfunction" or other "condition" that MUST be regulated and protected agaisnt at all cost that I myself can not handle?

 

Well obviously you are addicted to this game and we must pull the plug, or at least give you an OK dialog telling you to pull the plug.

[Callaron]

That 100$ offer is there because a lot of people have asked for bigger CC packages.

Of course they chose to indulge them after that one time 50% discount.

I disagree with you, good sir. This is not a discussion that can be handled with absolutes. Your opinion is noted, and has been mirrored by others, but is NOT considered fact

 

It's semantics really; technically it's not "gambling" - but everyone knows that those with poor impulse control and who are prone to gambling addictions will fall into the same trap.

Of course they would be doing this with the smaller CC purchases too, so this doesn't change anything at all - except for maybe the occasional idiot screaming "Noooo!!! I bought the wrong package!!!", despite having to confirm the amount several times.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Callaron

[Infernixx]

That 100$ offer is there because a lot of people have asked for bigger CC packages.

Of course they chose to indulge them after that one time 50% discount.

 

 

It's semantics really; technically it's not "gambling" - but everyone knows that those with poor impulse control and who are prone to gambling addictions will fall into the same trap.

Of course they would be doing this with the smaller CC purchases too, so this doesn't change anything at all - except for maybe the occasional idiot screaming "Noooo!!! I bought the wrong package!!!", despite having to confirm the amount several times.

 

The fact that there are people with poor impulse control is no reason to approach the CM as if those folk need to be coddled and protected from their own bad decisions.