OP, you do know that Sting/Flashfire is just technically a scout. In practice, it's a dedicated dogfighter. It's supposed to be the best choice for those who want to dogfight and get to the action quickly. Strike fighter is a multi-role ship, contrary to established opinion, it's a support ship, not the backbone of a team. It's supposed to bring heavier, more adaptable firepower down onto targets already engaged by dedicated dogfighters. As such, by definition, it is supposed to be inferior at dogfighting than Sting/Flashfire. That said, the RNG evasion is pure ******** in this type of game. I fly a Sting exclusively and I can't tell you how many times I was totally frustrated because some random number generator decided that, although I lined up my shots perfectly, welp, nothing happened. Removing evasion entirely from the game would be an excellent move. And no, scout maneuverability wouldn't be so OP in that case - if you can aim. Oh, and one other thing - noticed how your hits do not register at extreme close range? Yeah. It's not the dogfighters that are OP, it's the wonky mechanics. Bioware should realize already that they can't sit on two chairs at the same time - if they wanted to make a twitch-based space shooter, why the hell are clicky MMO mechanics in there at all?

First, grab bags are a party game. You put something in to get something back, but you don't go to a party and participate in a grab bag with the intent of walking away with something great. Nobody buys cartel packs with the intention of getting two rare items which can be bought on the GTN for 20 000 creds. The very structure of every single pack supports this - just examine them. Each and every pack has a chance of landing you a truly rare/wanted item. Not labeled as rare, actually rare. Not labeled as valuable, designed to be valuable and perceived as valuable by the general playerbase. And by the way, gambling does not entail risking money. At all. You can gamble with marbles. Or collectible cards. It entails risking something of value for a small chance of getting something of greater value, simple as that. It doesn't matter that you get *something* out of it. I could build a slot machine that is guaranteed to return 10 cents for every dollar played - in fact, most machines are designed to dole out carefully calculated amounts in regular intervals to keep people pulling that handle hoping the next one will be big. It's a simple trick, and it works. Marketing world is filled to the brim with such tricks. Deny it all you want, but some very smart people spend a lot of time creating systems designed to cash in on human psychological weaknesses, and tendency to gamble is a BIG one. Denial is another one, by the way.

Reading many of the posts here, I came to the conclusion that a lot of the posters should first study basic psychology, sociology and marketing, then they'd understand why cash shops in games, as well as stuff like: -collectible cards -lottery -grinding mobs for rare drops and so on are all forms of gambling. It is also clear a lot of people do not have a clear idea of what constitutes value and how the same is perceived. And for the umpteenth time, CM packs are NOT based on a "grab bag" concept. You cannot touch the stuff inside the bag, you cannot have any kind of decision or influence on what you get from the bag aside from selecting which bag you want a computer to select a random item for you. The CM is more akin to a row of slot machines than grab bags - a series of differently labeled random number generators which you can select, not hoping that you'll get two apples and a peanut, but the jackpot.

I supplied arguments with that definition. Refute them, walk away, or accept the definition. And once again, I am not interested in legal definitions, because most legal definitions have as much in common with the real world as pink unicorns.

Wrong example. *Goes fishing, wants to catch a fish to eat, because hunting is not a game, catches said fish because he knows what he's doing, eats fish, is happy.* What people want from packs, I'm not talking about you, I'm not talking about me (I don't even buy them because I don't like wasting *too much* money on pretend things) - I'm talking about the average consumer with whom in mind the system was designed - what people want is *specific* items they have a chance of getting. They all want a jackpot. They don't want "random stuff". That's why they pay. Again and again. For the chance to "win" stuff they want. That's why these systems exist, why they're more popular in the industry now than the flat subscription model, and far more profitable. People love to gamble. MMOs are built on that, what do you think "grinding" is. Cash shops are just grinding that you pay for with real money.

Who is talking about whose fault it is? I'm not. I'm defining gambling, you're talking about... stuff.

Is that what you *wanted*? Is that why you bought the pack? Yeah. I wanted a million dollar jackpot when I played those slots in Vegas. Didn't get it. I did get a quarter though. Guess I wasn't gambling after all.

Your argument is nonexistent. You can win the items the community deems desirable. You can win the items you deem desirable. Doesn't matter who decides what's valuable. What matters is the means of getting that. And if you want to get into that whole thing of who decides what, ultimately, like with fashion, it is the designers who determine what the community deems valuable. Make a cool lightsaber and a bunch of crappy looking ones. Put those crappy looking ones in the game and the cool one in the pack with a low chance of getting it. Hell, it doesn't even have to be pretty, just as long as it stands out and is difficult to get. Voila. The community just "decided" what's valuable.

No, you bought something with the expectation to get that exact thing and ignored the low chances that you will actually get it. The people who designed that product knew exactly what they were doing. You shouldn't get upset if you lose at gambling, because losing is basically in the design, but you shouldn't be telling yourself you're not gambling because that's a very good way to lose a lot of money. I gambled in Vegas, I lost 4$ after about 15 minutes. I wasn't upset, I fully expected to lose, and I knew what I was doing (can't tell people I went to Vegas and didn't gamble, eh?) Some people lose a lot more in Vegas, and many times denial is a very large part of why. And the best thing about this "new wave" of gambling is that it likes to pretend it's not gambling. People are spending money like crazy - SWTOR CM is nothing, you should see what people are doing over at GW2 cash shop.

As I said, I am not concerned with legality of gambling. Actually I just wanted to set up a clear definition of gambling, which I did. As for ethics... as such gambling is not unethical. Except when it is denied as gambling and people with issues are given a convenient blindfold so they can keep going down that road.

Of course you can. You get items of little value, or items you do not want. You just lost. Buying trading cards? What if you open a pack and worthless ones fall out? Well, I guess you lost. Which is the whole point really, why do you think they invented these schemes in the first place? How do you get people to buy the same "product" over and over again and, on average, spend much more money than you could ever charge them for a full pack or a guaranteed item? Make it so they have a chance of getting said item. And make the chance really low - but perceived as attainable. Same as lottery. The big momma of gambling.

Irrelevant who decides what's valuable. The point is that people buying packs want specific things. They do not want two random rares, all they have to do to get that is open GTN, set up filters and just click like mad. They want specific items. Which they have a chance of getting. Usually a low chance at that. Thus, they gamble. It is the same as that collectible card example. When you buy a pack, you do not want just "a random card". You want specific ones, ones you don't have or which you or other people deem valuable. And so, you gamble.

Since when is fishing a game of chance? Maybe if you don't know how to fish. If you do know how to fish, you're pretty much guaranteed a catch. Tell me, is there some expertise that can influence the random number generator built into the CM? Can you get "good" at spending money to get a guaranteed item of value you want? Collectible cards are also gambling. In the real world, again, not the world of lawyers. So is living. After all, there is a chance that a meteor could hit you. There is also a chance the Universe might end, even though we haven't got room for enough decimal places and zeroes in it to express that chance. But if I told you this: Here's an airplane you will fly. There is a 50% chance the engine will fail and you will crash and die. Now, what would you say, if you fly that plane, are you gambling with your life? And CM chances for items of value are much, much lower than 50%. The nature of any gambling activity is such that the chances are stacked against the gambler, but the potential gain is enough for that gambler to attempt the activity anyway. There is no way for the gambler to significantly influence their chances of winning. If it fits those two criteria, it is gambling.

Of course it is gambling and anyone claiming otherwise is just deluding themselves. I do not care for legal definitions, they're important to lawyers who live in their own little world. What we have in CM, and indeed in pretty much any other virtual shop offering a *chance* to get something of value, is pure gambling in digital form. You spend something of value, for a *chance* to get something you want. Thus it is a game of chance, otherwise known as gambling. End of discussion.

OP post is good, but the comenters not getting it are even better.