The REAL problem with gunships

[SemperFido]

Screw any potential balance issues... they just don't make logical sense. Midget deathstars that have to stand still to fire... its just down right stupid. If this was a Star Wars space battle in the movies the Capital ship turbo laser gunners would have a field day. They should have given them a cool down to double the range of whatever laser cannon they had equiped or to fire two primary weapons at the same time.... this space sniper malarky really breaks the immersion of being in a Star Wars style spaceship battle... when was the last time even the Capital ships just hovered... the only thing in the HISTORY of the F*ing Star Wars universe that stopped before it shoots was the Death Star.

 

Gunships need to be entirely rethought, the way they are currently in the game IS. NOT. Star Wars.

Edited December 11, 2013 by SemperFido
proper all caps

[ODTONE]

agreed, big disapointement the gunships..

and you basically just look at them and they blow up there so wimpy.

as i mentioned before i dont even find they deserve the term gunship!

for "gamers" who just want to shoot stuff like a shooter it might be fine,

but wanting to play a star wars mmo, there pretty horrible.

and im disapointed that they didnt invent their own thing thats its all a copy of another game

i never was interested in playing, im told the gunships are exacty like artillery in them...

id rather they had copied swg space than world of tanks!

but i guess real space would be to much work and not a mini game they can just copy...

coming up next facebook swtor pvp lol ..

Edited December 11, 2013 by ODTONE

[renegadeimp]

Everyship is perfectly fine as they are. The ONLY thing that really needs to change is the skill 'bypass' It needs removing entirely or have the percentage lowered.

[Satanski]

Although im flying one i agree that they are not Star Warsy.

 

They should be like YE-4 Gunship:

"Two forward mounted guns, three forward mounted turrets, in addition to the two turrets on the top and one at the rear of the gunship"

[AlrikFassbauer]

Everyship is perfectly fine as they are. The ONLY thing that really needs to change is the skill 'bypass' It needs removing entirely or have the percentage lowered.

 

What does it do ? I don't have it ( yet ).

Edited December 11, 2013 by AlrikFassbauer

[Zoom_VI]

What does it do ? I don't have it ( yet ).

 

When a gunship uses bypass, somebody gets one-shotted at full health and shields.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Oh, thank you.

[Phantasym]

I have no issues with balance, but they are kind of out of line with what you picture for star wars ships. A gunship in star wars to me would be slow but heavily armed and armored, very strong lasers, missiles and heavy armor but not very maneuverable, sniping weapon. Even capital class ships often moved in combat though not always. I picture, those troop transport type things with missiles they used in episode 2 at the end.

 

I guess they are making gunships almost like the ground lasers they used to take down one of the trade federations ships as it was taking off.

[TUXs]

I think GS is extremely well balanced. In order for a Gunship to be effective, the opponents need to have tunnel vision and be completely unaware of their surroundings. I make a point of actively destroying any Gunship I see in my Scout. About 70% of the time, they never see me and don't even move before they blow up. They're glass canons.

[Zoom_VI]

I think GS is extremely well balanced. In order for a Gunship to be effective, the opponents need to have tunnel vision and be completely unaware of their surroundings. I make a point of actively destroying any Gunship I see in my Scout. About 70% of the time, they never see me and don't even move before they blow up. They're glass canons.

 

So? Gunships breed paranoia among fighters because we are always afraid that the second we poke our nose out from under a satellite we will get one-shotted.

 

They may be balanced but they suck all the fun out of the other two classes. Ever played a scout against a gunship heavy team? You kill one just to be insta killed by another unseen opponent that's 15km away.

 

No class should be based around launching attacks that's their target cannot fend against, you don't know there is a gunship until your shot and even then you can do nothing but boost in a random direction and hope your going out of their scope and not into it.

 

It would be like if conc operatives had a 20% chance to one-shot a target with hidden strike. They might be weak and exposed after that, but that's little consolation to the guy that got one-shotted by something he had zero chance to fend against.

[TUXs]

So? Gunships breed paranoia among fighters because we are always afraid that the second we poke our nose out from under a satellite we will get one-shotted.

 

They may be balanced but they suck all the fun out of the other two classes. Ever played a scout against a gunship heavy team? You kill one just to be insta killed by another unseen opponent that's 15km away.

 

No class should be based around launching attacks that's their target cannot fend against, you don't know there is a gunship until your shot and even then you can do nothing but boost in a random direction and hope your going out of their scope and not into it.

 

It would be like if conc operatives had a 20% chance to one-shot a target with hidden strike. They might be weak and exposed after that, but that's little consolation to the guy that got one-shotted by something he had zero chance to fend against.

I've played 70+ matches, almost exclusively in my Scout. I've gone against a team with 8 Gunships one match. I accept the fact that a good Gunship will 1-shot me, but I also know that from my spawn to the Gunship, I can F3+Spacebar, flying high and out of his LoS and close in to 5500m, press F1+1+x and destroy him before he moves.

 

In fact, I absolutely LOVE facing Gunship heavy teams...we destroy them with Scouts. They're slow to the objectives and stand out. I scan the horizon and every crack I see continuously looking for them. They may get a few 1-shot kills, but there's never been a Scout that I've taken down who just sat stationary for me while I unloaded on him like the Gunships do.

[Nethgilne]

this is a weak argument against gun ships. Balance breaking I can understand. But trying to bring logic into a science fantasy game will always be a non starter. For every hypothetical argument against why gun ships would make no tactical sense, someone else could make just as many hypotheticals arguments for them.

[Zoom_VI]

I've played 70+ matches, almost exclusively in my Scout. I've gone against a team with 8 Gunships one match. I accept the fact that a good Gunship will 1-shot me, but I also know that from my spawn to the Gunship, I can F3+Spacebar, flying high and out of his LoS and close in to 5500m, press F1+1+x and destroy him before he moves.

 

In fact, I absolutely LOVE facing Gunship heavy teams...we destroy them with Scouts. They're slow to the objectives and stand out. I scan the horizon and every crack I see continuously looking for them. They may get a few 1-shot kills, but there's never been a Scout that I've taken down who just sat stationary for me while I unloaded on him like the Gunships do.

 

That's the problem don't you see?

 

If a gunship gets a shot on a unaware scout the scout is guaranteed to die and there is nothing he can do to stop it. If a scout sneaks up on a gunship the gunship is guaranteed to die and there is little the gunship can do to stop it.

 

Its a game who whoever shoots first wins, and the participants don't know the game has started until that first shot is fired.

 

This means scouts are always paranoid and looking over their shoulder for that yellow glow and gunships are always paranoid and looking over their shoulder for that scout.

 

That's not right, getting the first shot should never be the only requirement for a kill, kills should require skill. And a game should never induce so much paranoia.

[Mazikeen]

So? Gunships breed paranoia among fighters because we are always afraid that the second we poke our nose out from under a satellite we will get one-shotted.

 

They may be balanced but they suck all the fun out of the other two classes.

 

Versus Scouts that can do flyby's at speeds I can't match on my Gunship or Strike Fighter? Add to this the long lock-on time of Strike missiles and Scouts end up being like wasps.

 

Sure, let's complain about the big guns that have no defense but completely ignore the smaller ones that are next to untouchable for all but the best pilots.

[TUXs]

That's the problem don't you see?

 

If a gunship gets a shot on a unaware scout the scout is guaranteed to die and there is nothing he can do to stop it. If a scout sneaks up on a gunship the gunship is guaranteed to die and there is little the gunship can do to stop it.

 

Its a game who whoever shoots first wins, and the participants don't know the game has started until that first shot is fired.

 

This means scouts are always paranoid and looking over their shoulder for that yellow glow and gunships are always paranoid and looking over their shoulder for that scout.

 

That's not right, getting the first shot should never be the only requirement for a kill, kills should require skill. And a game should never induce so much paranoia.

 

I have never felt any sense of "paranoia"...ever (as it relates to this game...NSA spying on me while I play is another issue >.> )!

 

I guess I actually like the "cat and mouse" game it creates. My Scout blows at killing other Scouts (takes too long and they maneuver far too well), but it rocks at killing Gunships and taking objectives. I actively tab through targets, press my sensor gain skill and look for them, but never do I feel like I can't enjoy myself because of them.

 

I'm not suggesting I enjoy getting 1-shot by them...I don't...but I know I can do the same to them once they expose themselves. It's, imo, a very good give and take right now. I truly believe I have the upper hand in the kill count vs. Gunships...by a fairly hefty margin too I think...

[Satanski]

I have a feeling some people foget that this is a team game and killing others and staying alive is not the main goal. Sure, one hit dying can be frustrating and _maybe_ its even somewhat OP but ive yet to see a match where one team wins just becouse they have more gunships. When i enter a battlefield i check how i can assist my team best and depending on a situation i help in satellite attack or defence using rails for a while or im going for other team gunships when i see them sitting there taking free kills. Also i found sniping to be rather boring and im very often going for a dogfight so i doubt excessive number of gunsihps will be very popular unless they are _really_ OP.

[MisterBlackJack]

So? Gunships breed paranoia among fighters because we are always afraid that the second we poke our nose out from under a satellite we will get one-shotted.

 

They may be balanced but they suck all the fun out of the other two classes. Ever played a scout against a gunship heavy team? You kill one just to be insta killed by another unseen opponent that's 15km away.

 

No class should be based around launching attacks that's their target cannot fend against, you don't know there is a gunship until your shot and even then you can do nothing but boost in a random direction and hope your going out of their scope and not into it.

 

It would be like if conc operatives had a 20% chance to one-shot a target with hidden strike. They might be weak and exposed after that, but that's little consolation to the guy that got one-shotted by something he had zero chance to fend against.

 

Just like life, you must adapt to the surroundings. You say they take the fun out, I say they make the matches more interesting. Instead of just flying around shooting each other you now have to keep your eye to the sky. You think Lando B**** about the death star when it was just sitting there shooting fleets out of the sky. No!

 

The game is well balanced just as you say so simply just adapt to a gunship in the area, find them and blow them to pieces.

[Sangrar]

gunships are fine as they are, seriously, to the op, you think bioware will release something, then completely redesign it just becuase you and one or two other people are unhappy with them, I mean really, they screw with gunship and alter it from what it was designed for it will be ruined then there will be a REAL BALANCE PROBLEM. Remember 1.0 pvp, how everything was supposedly "unbalanced", they complained and screwed with it, resulting in todays REAL INBALANCE PROBLEM with ground pvp.

[stevetsuida]

All this talk about the Bypass skill has me thinking...

[Zoom_VI]

I have never felt any sense of "paranoia"...ever (as it relates to this game...NSA spying on me while I play is another issue >.> )!

 

I guess I actually like the "cat and mouse" game it creates. My Scout blows at killing other Scouts (takes too long and they maneuver far too well), but it rocks at killing Gunships and taking objectives. I actively tab through targets, press my sensor gain skill and look for them, but never do I feel like I can't enjoy myself because of them.

 

I'm not suggesting I enjoy getting 1-shot by them...I don't...but I know I can do the same to them once they expose themselves. It's, imo, a very good give and take right now. I truly believe I have the upper hand in the kill count vs. Gunships...by a fairly hefty margin too I think...

 

Well that's where I disagree, I am a firm believer in the skilled guy always wins. If a scout sneaks up on a gunship, but the gunship is a far superior player the gunship should kill the scout and vise versa. But with the way it is now the advantage of first strike completely outweighs any difference in skill in the case of scout v gunship.

 

Honestly as a Scout coming up behind a immobile target popping a offensive cooldown and obliterating takes no skill and is hardly rewarding, conversely shooting a target 15km away with a weapon that doesn't even have to account for target's movement requires absolutely no skill either.

 

Less herp derp I win, and more competition.

[Zoom_VI]

gunships are fine as they are, seriously, to the op, you think bioware will release something, then completely redesign it just becuase you and one or two other people are unhappy with them, I mean really, they screw with gunship and alter it from what it was designed for it will be ruined then there will be a REAL BALANCE PROBLEM. Remember 1.0 pvp, how everything was supposedly "unbalanced", they complained and screwed with it, resulting in todays REAL INBALANCE PROBLEM with ground pvp.

 

I am not arguing they are overpowered, I am arguing that they are promoting a derpy skilless mentality. If I wanted to play a first shot takes all game I would play CoD.

 

Gunships overpowered or not basically run on the smashmonkey mentality - the same killing power as other classes but requiring no skill to achieve results.

 

How is shooting a target 15km who likely can't even see you with weapon that doesn't even have to account for the target's movement even remotely competitive. I don't care if I can get the same kill amount on a flashfire, I care that the game is going towards no-skill uncompetitive play.

[arrefmak]

I am not arguing they are overpowered, I am arguing that they are promoting a derpy skilless mentality.

 

If you think there is no skill in gunship play, you have not played them.

 

Half blind, trying to zero in on moving targets at extreme range (range that actually plays to the strength of scout speed and strike fighter maneuvers), knowing that you are prime on the list of things to kill, knowing you cannot escape once you are spotted, suiting up and going out there anyhow---for the team.

 

I have not seen many one-shot deaths, I think most of that argument is exaggerated. Damaged ships going down in one shot, yes. I've seen 2 or 3 hits to take out an opponent. I've seen wounded ships finished off by a teammate. In flying gunships, mostly I get 'assists' and that's just fine. Very few outright kills.

 

History of combat flight shows us that there are always unequal designs on the battlefield, and yet, pilots climb into the cockpit and try to do the job. I think a little tension in the dynamic between the three styles is what makes the whole game successful.

 

Almost every Star Wars cinema scene showing space combat demonstrates one shot and quick death, either by trying to avoid getting shot (flying into obstacles) or by getting hit squarely by an opponent. The only avoidance is grazing shots, or fast repairs when hit badly.

 

Some of my best moments in the game is surviving several hits when being chased down by 1 or 2 scouts/strike ships. Trust me I don't last long.

[TUXs]

Well that's where I disagree, I am a firm believer in the skilled guy always wins. If a scout sneaks up on a gunship, but the gunship is a far superior player the gunship should kill the scout and vise versa. But with the way it is now the advantage of first strike completely outweighs any difference in skill in the case of scout v gunship.

 

Honestly as a Scout coming up behind a immobile target popping a offensive cooldown and obliterating takes no skill and is hardly rewarding, conversely shooting a target 15km away with a weapon that doesn't even have to account for target's movement requires absolutely no skill either.

 

Less herp derp I win, and more competition.

 

You seem to want all ships equal...is that it? Different skins, but all the same still?

 

There were a few gunships piloted by Imps last night that were good players that I faced. They were most certainly NOT "easy kills"...I worked for every kill on the good pilots...lost some too...I disagree 100% with you about how rewarding it is to take down a gunship that's silently sniping my teammates...I find it outrageously satisfactory.

 

If complete balance isn't what you're looking for, what would make you happy?

[MisterBlackJack]

I've played 70+ matches, almost exclusively in my Scout. I've gone against a team with 8 Gunships one match. I accept the fact that a good Gunship will 1-shot me, but I also know that from my spawn to the Gunship, I can F3+Spacebar, flying high and out of his LoS and close in to 5500m, press F1+1+x and destroy him before he moves.

 

In fact, I absolutely LOVE facing Gunship heavy teams...we destroy them with Scouts. They're slow to the objectives and stand out. I scan the horizon and every crack I see continuously looking for them. They may get a few 1-shot kills, but there's never been a Scout that I've taken down who just sat stationary for me while I unloaded on him like the Gunships do.

 

This ^

 

I play scout as well and i love it when i see a heavy gunship team makes winning the match much more fun and easier.

[MisterBlackJack]

You seem to want all ships equal...is that it? Different skins, but all the same still?

 

There were a few gunships piloted by Imps last night that were good players that I faced. They were most certainly NOT "easy kills"...I worked for every kill on the good pilots...lost some too...I disagree 100% with you about how rewarding it is to take down a gunship that's silently sniping my teammates...I find it outrageously satisfactory.

 

If complete balance isn't what you're looking for, what would make you happy?

 

Hate to see how he responds when the Bombers come out in February