BAD CONTROLS! Oh, the bad controls...

[Liralin]

Saw this today posted by Star Wars Strategies, thought it might be of help to some people: http://www.swtorstrategies.com/2013/12/how-to-play-galactic-starfighter-with-an-xbox-360-controller.html

[Arkerus]

Clearly the game that GSF takes its inspiration from was freelancer which was known to have bad controls and got the same reaction as GSF did for it. Thats why other fighter games never used the freelance style it just doesnt work for fighter games. The stand out feature that made freelancer so good was its open world free roaming and it never pretended to be a proper space shooter like GSF tries to.

 

I think this must mean that Bioware are working on a free roam space segment. Otherwise it odd to choose to copy the controls of a game known for its bad controls and not copy its great open world free roam. If thats true great otherwise this is just a pretty basic space shooter with very dumbed down controls.

 

Its been a long time since I saw someone reach this far:

X must be Y because of A and Z.

 

And btw, I love the controls. I find them very easy to use. After a few matches it is very intuitive. Point to fly, turn to bank. Combine the two for very tight turns.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Arkerus

[Itkovian]

I am not saying GS is a failure. It seems to be receiving many positive reviews from players who haven't played many dogfighting games. But if they made it to be more like successful dogfighting games i mentioned above, it would've attracted more players. But again, Bioware devs live in an alternate universe where nonsense makes sense.

 

You're making a false assumption here, or at least an unsubstantiated one. Namely, that giving it traditional fighter control scheme would have attracted more players. Rather, what it actually WOULD do is have attracted DIFFERENT players, hardcore flight/space sim fans who must have joystick support in order to appreciate a game.

 

But would this mean there would have been MORE players? That's up to debate, and clearly Bioware didn't think so, as no doubt they chose the control scheme and gameplay mechanic (the whole "use-mouse-as-crosshairs") because they felt it would draw in more players and be more accessible.

 

Whether or not that is actually how it will pan out is up to debate, but let's not make the mistake to think that because GS doens't cater to your preference, it must mean the Devs were wrong and the expansion will be less popular than it would have been otherwise.

 

And to be fair, I'd have preferred something more like X-wing VS TIE Fighter, but I can understand why they chose this direction instead.

[PlasmaJohn]

All I can say to someone who thinks the controls are bad is, LEARN HOW TO USE THEM. It's as simple as that.

I have, I'm effective with them, and they still blow moose chunks.

[TonyDragonflame]

All I can say to someone who thinks the controls are bad is, LEARN HOW TO USE THEM. It's as simple as that.

 

No, thank you.

 

I have no fun and enjoy using these stupid controls. I refuse play game with them.

I pay my money for my own fun and my fun its controls which I like. Its keyboard and joystick. Thats all. I dont pay my money to learn something.

 

If Bioware wanna know why I dont play their GSF game (and why I think finish my sub when its ends) - my feedback in this thread.

[LeonBraun]

I use a mouse in my right hand and a Belkin keypad on the left... I can fly, turn, twist, rotate quite well all using these two peripherals... Keypads are pretty common to find in most electronic stores. Edited December 6, 2013 by LeonBraun

[Ridickilis]

Okay I gave it a good 15+ hours in the past 3 days and I'd say the controls are 'serviceable'. I've gotten a little better, I've been able to hold nodes in 1 vs 2 situations, gotten used to switching targets fast, etc and so on. But I still occasionally have issues crashing into **** because of the 3rd person view.

 

So before even joystick compatibility, I would like a first person view and a stagnant targeting reticule on my end. I don't like the roving target marker on my sights. I feel like I'm fighting my roving target marker with your roving target marker. Just adding a joystick without these two things won't make it any easier for me. So I do agree that, as it is now, just adding joystick support won't make this any easier.

 

I also don't like seeing my ship turn and barrel and whatnot. I don't want to see my ship at all, preferring just the environment move. As it is now, I'm watching my ship pitch and yaw at the same time the environment is also moving around. I don't know how else to really explain it other than to use driving a car behind the wheel and driving a car with a remote control. When we drive, the inside of our car doesn't move in relation to us, just the environment moves. So it's just harder for me to grasp the concept of the third person view while controlling a vehicle.

 

^On that last part, what do those of you without any issues with these controls focus your line of sight on to compensate for this?

Edited December 6, 2013 by Ridickilis

[Arkerus]

Okay I gave it a good 15+ hours in the past 3 days and I'd say the controls are 'serviceable'. I've gotten a little better, I've been able to hold nodes in 1 vs 2 situations, gotten used to switching targets fast, etc and so on. But I still occasionally have issues crashing into **** because of the 3rd person view.

 

So before even joystick compatibility, I would like a first person view and a stagnant targeting reticule on my end. I don't like the roving target marker on my sights. I feel like I'm fighting my roving target marker with your roving target marker. Just adding a joystick without these two things won't make it any easier for me. So I do agree that, as it is now, just adding joystick support won't make this any easier.

 

I also don't like seeing my ship turn and barrel and whatnot. I don't want to see my ship at all, preferring just the environment move. As it is now, I'm watching my ship pitch and yaw at the same time the environment is also moving around. I don't know how else to really explain it other than to use driving a car behind the wheel and driving a car with a remote control. When we drive, the inside of our car doesn't move in relation to us, just the environment moves. So it's just harder for me to grasp the concept of the third person view while controlling a vehicle.

 

^On that last part, what do those of you without any issues with these controls focus your line of sight on to compensate for this?

 

I don't look at my ship. I think that is part of your issue. By focusing your eyes on your ship your brain is placing you there and then your POV is thrown off.

 

I focus on my targeting reticule. The only time I look at my ship is when I am running some tight maneuvers between objects.

[Ridickilis]

Okay thanks, that's what I thought. I've been trying that but it's just a bit difficult because it's right there front and center of my screen. And yeah I think it's defiantly a sensory issue, for me anyway.

[Arkerus]

Okay thanks, that's what I thought. I've been trying that but it's just a bit difficult because it's right there front and center of my screen. And yeah I think it's defiantly a sensory issue, for me anyway.

 

Everyone is wired a bit differently! Good luck. Sometimes just doing it will get your brain used to it.

I play a lot of fighter jet games too so I understand what you mean. My head just seems to be a bit more flexible.

[olcraft]

lol a typically they didn't do what I told them to do so it sucks and they are dumb because I know everything and completely understand why they choose to go this route.

 

The entitled ranting is getting old. You have no facts to back up any of your complaining, just what you like better and because you do it means they alienate an enormous potential player base who will now never play it. A completely emotional response.

 

Ask yourself critical questions use critical thinking, why did they go this route, is X in a business sense worth the resources, does X provide an advantage to those that will use it over those that won't, is it cost effective, can we meet release goals if we include x, ect.

 

It's fairly clear most people can't get that far as they can't see past their own emotional feelings and have no clue how a business + development works.

 

Dear businessman, maybe you can explain why they chose to build this unorthodox aiming system then? in my POV, movable targeting reticule looks more complicated than the traditional fixed reticule found in other successful dogfighting games.

[olcraft]

You're making a false assumption here, or at least an unsubstantiated one. Namely, that giving it traditional fighter control scheme would have attracted more players. Rather, what it actually WOULD do is have attracted DIFFERENT players, hardcore flight/space sim fans who must have joystick support in order to appreciate a game.

 

But would this mean there would have been MORE players? That's up to debate, and clearly Bioware didn't think so, as no doubt they chose the control scheme and gameplay mechanic (the whole "use-mouse-as-crosshairs") because they felt it would draw in more players and be more accessible.

 

Whether or not that is actually how it will pan out is up to debate, but let's not make the mistake to think that because GS doens't cater to your preference, it must mean the Devs were wrong and the expansion will be less popular than it would have been otherwise.

 

And to be fair, I'd have preferred something more like X-wing VS TIE Fighter, but I can understand why they chose this direction instead.

 

Giving more freedoms to players attract more players. It is a common sense. It's not like asking players to throw out their mice and keyboards to buy joysticks. If you like mouse based gameplay, go ahead keep using mouse. If you like keyboard, keep pressing your buttons. If you like neither, you can install your joystick and play it as if you were really flying a starfighter. What's so bad about giving people more choices?

 

People have been playing dogfighting games with traditional fixed targeting reticule for decades. People neither loved nor hated it because that's how it's always been and how it will always be. In fact I've never heard of this word 'targeting reticule' till i started testing GS, It is totally alien to most veteran dogfighting gamers. Moreover, this new aiming system is cumbersome and annoying; It's harder to shoot accurately while making hard turns, it's difficult to track where your targeting reticule sometimes, it's harder to simultaneously stay behind your target and keep it on your crosshairs. Why make a perfectly fine fixed reticule so much more annoying? Nobody has been complaining about fixed targeting reticule for decades, With all these drawbacks, is it still better than the traditional fixed reticule design? Do you still think the current design is better?

[Dihanna]

The controls are fine. A mouse and keyboard are perfectly suited for flying in combat. That is why the Air Force has replaced the sticks in all their fighter craft with mice and keyboards.

 

 

 

Which Air Force would that be? You did say, "all their fighter craft", after all, so not just drones, then. I can just imagine the pilot of a multi-million Pound (or Dollar) aircraft, complaining about the mouse pad not being big enough.....yeah, right! If you seriously think that a mouse and keyboard are perfectly suited to flying in combat, then you've probably never piloted an aircraft in real life! To someone who has piloted a real aircraft in real life, the mouse and keyboard set-up is far from intuitive and it lacks the finesse that a 'stick provides. Someone else queried what game would use a 'stick after 1998....X-Wing Alliance (released 1999) did and do I really need to mention the various flight sims? For me, the biggest sin is, having no cockpit view - of all the 'Space Sims' I've played, which includes the very complex I-War, Freelancer was the only game I removed from my drive after a day and it was also the biggest disappointment. The bugs that were released with GSF, are another story, but are perhaps indicative of a somewhat rushed and sloppy approach.

[Sheike]

The only thing wrong with the controls is the lack of a mouse deadzone past the outer circle on the hud, and I apologize in advance, but I believe it is quite justifiable to say that that sh*t is f*cking annoying.

[Arkerus]

Giving more freedoms to players attract more players. It is a common sense. It's not like asking players to throw out their mice and keyboards to buy joysticks. If you like mouse based gameplay, go ahead keep using mouse. If you like keyboard, keep pressing your buttons. If you like neither, you can install your joystick and play it as if you were really flying a starfighter. What's so bad about giving people more choices?

 

People have been playing dogfighting games with traditional fixed targeting reticule for decades. People neither loved nor hated it because that's how it's always been and how it will always be. In fact I've never heard of this word 'targeting reticule' till i started testing GS, It is totally alien to most veteran dogfighting gamers. Moreover, this new aiming system is cumbersome and annoying; It's harder to shoot accurately while making hard turns, it's difficult to track where your targeting reticule sometimes, it's harder to simultaneously stay behind your target and keep it on your crosshairs. Why make a perfectly fine fixed reticule so much more annoying? Nobody has been complaining about fixed targeting reticule for decades, With all these drawbacks, is it still better than the traditional fixed reticule design? Do you still think the current design is better?

 

Design was based on mouse and keyboard. Get over it.

 

You are going about it all wrong.

 

You are looking at it from the point of view that starts with a flight stick or game pad. That isn't where bioware started. To make sure everyone who plays SWTOR has a chance to participate they started with a keyboard based control scheme that uses the mouse to aim and steer. Now everyone can use it and can't complain that they don't have a joystick to use.

 

You can either accept it and hope they add some type of joystick/game pad version of the system...or you can rant on about how broken the system is when it really isn't.

Edited December 7, 2013 by Arkerus

[b-morgan]

After reading this entire thread, I think a lot of people have ignored one critical issue, control system balance.

 

When there is only one way to control the ship, balance isn't an issue. If you add joysticks as an option, now you have to balance two control systems. If you don't, then the superior control system becomes a "must have".

 

There have been quite a few good suggestions in this thread about how to make the current keyboard + mouse control system better and hopefully, the developers will improve the current system over time. I have no objection to adding alternate control systems, but I would object if I was forced to go out and buy them to remain competitive.

 

This is early access to a new feature scheduled for release in February. As subscribers, the best thing we can do is be constructive in our comments/suggestions. Back up your opinions with as much factual detail as possible. Last but not least, lets be polite. For example, the title of this thread would likely gather more developer interest if it was "The Controls, ideas that could make them better".

Edited December 7, 2013 by b-morgan

[SwiftDuck]

The Controls are excellent it very easy to learn and simple. Bioware did excellent job in making sure it was easy learning curve. Great job Bioware

 

i agree with this.

[TonyDragonflame]

Its clear what controls deigned for pve mouse clickers who suck hard on warzones and arenas against keybinders.

 

Okay, no joystick... but give keybinders at least targeting in center of screen, movement direction control with keyboard and fire with keyboard! But no... there is no pure keyboard support, such as there is no pure joystick support...

 

Such plenty efforts of development and coding and such poor support of 2/3 major gaming interfaces... GG Bioware, good luck you in your game business.

[Phrase]

Its clear what controls deigned for pve mouse clickers who suck hard on warzones and arenas against keybinders.

 

Okay, no joystick... but give keybinders at least targeting in center of screen, movement direction control with keyboard and fire with keyboard! But no... there is no pure keyboard support, such as there is no pure joystick support...

 

Such plenty efforts of development and coding and such poor support of 2/3 major gaming interfaces... GG Bioware, good luck you in your game business.

 

I heard keyboard turners suck in ground pvp. confirm/ deny

[NalRethak]

After reading this entire thread, I think a lot of people have ignored one critical issue, control system balance.

 

When there is only one way to control the ship, balance isn't an issue. If you add joysticks as an option, now you have to balance two control systems. If you don't, then the superior control system becomes a "must have".

 

What kind of balance problem do we have if they implement Joystick controls?

Those that are not asking for them, thinks they are perfect and just tell everyone to L2P.

 

If there's an option for Joystick, then there's no problem, b/c others are fine with Mouse/Keyboard as they're already great. So there's no superior control system

[Neoforcer]

Design was based on mouse and keyboard. Get over it.

 

You are going about it all wrong.

 

You are looking at it from the point of view that starts with a flight stick or game pad. That isn't where bioware started. To make sure everyone who plays SWTOR has a chance to participate they started with a keyboard based control scheme that uses the mouse to aim and steer. Now everyone can use it and can't complain that they don't have a joystick to use.

 

You can either accept it and hope they add some type of joystick/game pad version of the system...or you can rant on about how broken the system is when it really isn't.

 

This is 2013 were gamepad support should be common and easy to achieve we will rant how broken the system is because we are customers and have a right to. The controls are what they are, bad design weather you like it or not. What i can tell by your post is you do not like people having an opinion other then how great it is because it is a shinny new toy for you sorry we do not like the controls.

[BDutch]

Hate the controls. I even want to use the mouse and the keyboard; I just don't like the sensitivity combined with the aiming deadzone. I don't care if this game exactly like whatever other game, I wouldn't have played them either.

[Arkerus]

This is 2013 were gamepad support should be common and easy to achieve we will rant how broken the system is because we are customers and have a right to. The controls are what they are, bad design weather you like it or not. What i can tell by your post is you do not like people having an opinion other then how great it is because it is a shinny new toy for you sorry we do not like the controls.

 

I don't even know where to start...

 

I don't think you understand the fact that joystick is not some default control system. Actually, considering most people play with a mouse and keyboard, that is where bioware started.

 

But rant on my friend. Its fun.

[Traesk]

I don't even know where to start...

 

I don't think you understand the fact that joystick is not some default control system. Actually, considering most people play with a mouse and keyboard, that is where bioware started.

 

But rant on my friend. Its fun.

 

So you're saying that BW took the easy way out? Mouse and Keyboard has been around for years but games were still made with joystick controls. That's a cop out excuse.

[Arkerus]

So you're saying that BW took the easy way out? Mouse and Keyboard has been around for years but games were still made with joystick controls. That's a cop out excuse.

 

They designed it for the common denominator. If SWTOR was a flight game and not an MMO you might have an argument...but it's not.

 

It's not to say its not coming but people shouldn't act surprised.

Edited December 7, 2013 by Arkerus