Galactic star fighter.. My review opinion and observations of it.

[Timarick]

my only complaint is the hair trigger hyper-sensitivity of the mouse which makes targeting a small nightmare. Otherwise this is a solid update and I hope to see more with the Starfighters in the future

[Chowley]

To the OP despite saying you played ten games you kind of come across as someone who played two matches, didnt read about it much or put much effort into and then came on with a rather negative post. I was a bit flustered at the controls for the first two matches i played, starting to actually enjoy them now.

I dont know, to say that its boring or slow paced, that is the complete opposite experience I have had, maybe you are incredibly unlucky.

Also having played against a couple of good gunship pilots that thing is extremely effective.

 

I would say you might enjoy it more when a lot of people have had time to get used to this, it all might be a totally new experience for a lot of people right now (I mean flight games, twitch, domination game mode etc) so you could be ending up in matches with a bunch of headless chickens.

 

But I love this expansion, this is what I wanted on release of SWTOR and I am delighted its here now, I resubbed for this, would not have done so otherwise.

[DAMossimo]

As I explained above, making a turret shoot at some coordinates is not the difficult part.

 

Making a NPC ship move around in six axis 3D space, adjusting speed, deciding who to attack, avoiding 3D objects are the difficult parts. The AI in GSF is just a barebone, but you don´t need much more in a PvP warzone anyway.

 

I don´t see PVE happening anytime soon, and if it would happen it would certainly be something very different than warzones to queue up.

GS is just an extension of arenas/warzones.

 

What you want is Jump to Lightspeed (yeah I want that too)

 

No, I don't want JTL - I never even played SWG. I'm not even saying we should have PvE missions - I'm just saying that they could have at least made a tutorial utilizing the existing AI tech available right now. The tutorial was obviously rushed and is insufficient - that is my only point.

[Lu-Wan]

Lol..OP! Did you even bother to try the actual tutorial?? You know the one that teaches you how to actually fly and explains quite well how to do it?

I dont think you did. You just put your head in the sand and rushed in there because you thought you would be a natural at flying around didint you?

 

Well whatever you did, I think its a bit premature even bother doing a thread about how dissapointed you are, before you have actually tried to learn to play it.

 

Impatience, sloppiness and inexperience is your enemy here mate, not GS itself.

 

And BOOM! This here just explained why everyone who sucks at GS is going to complain. More specifically the mention of getting into a star-fighter and magically knowing how to play and be an amazing pilot. I had to remind myself that right away I wasn't going to be very good and that it's a learning process AND that I needed to discover a ship layout on my own that would work for me based on the classes available. You don't just pick up one of the ships and at any time and will magically be good with it. You must learn it. Embrace it and make it your own... hmm gonna have to quote myself once I put my review together.

[dazednconfuzed]

No, I don't want JTL - I never even played SWG. I'm not even saying we should have PvE missions - I'm just saying that they could have at least made a tutorial utilizing the existing AI tech available right now. The tutorial was obviously rushed and is insufficient - that is my only point.

 

If you are asking for a tutorial with AI ships, then you are asking for a PvE version of one of the PvP maps. From that, it is a small step to providing actual PvE content for GSF. The problem is that they haven't figured out how to get the AI to move properly, so we can't have PvE, and because we can't have PvE, we can't have a tutorial with ships that move around and fire back at us.

 

The AI tech apparently isn't available right now. One of the devs blatantly admitted as much when they said GSF was PvP only. Frankly, without the AI to fly the fighters, they did the best tutorial they could.

[JPryde]

This "review" reminds me of that East Frisia guy, who complained to the chainsaw distributor, that he wouldn't be able to drop a single tree with it in a day... much less the advertised 5-10 trees.

The salesman then started the motor of the chainsaw to see if anything was wrong and the East Frisia guy was like "Whow, what is that sound?".

[DAMossimo]

If you are asking for a tutorial with AI ships, then you are asking for a PvE version of one of the PvP maps. From that, it is a small step to providing actual PvE content for GSF. The problem is that they haven't figured out how to get the AI to move properly, so we can't have PvE, and because we can't have PvE, we can't have a tutorial with ships that move around and fire back at us.

 

The AI tech apparently isn't available right now. One of the devs blatantly admitted as much when they said GSF was PvP only. Frankly, without the AI to fly the fighters, they did the best tutorial they could.

 

I know. I know. I know. The tech doesn't exist for AI ships. I'm NOT suggesting that! Although it would be nice.

 

I'm suggesting that they do the tutorial with lots of AI turrets since that is proven successful in the PvP maps - why did they not at least include it in the tutorial?

[Tsukaa]

There are plenty of games where the npc ai is good enough to shoot you down, the problem with having it in starfighter is all the damn rocks you fly into,

 

i would like a space level with very little to crash into, maybe a big ship or 2 and there would be no problem putting npcs in there

[dazednconfuzed]

I know. I know. I know. The tech doesn't exist for AI ships. I'm NOT suggesting that! Although it would be nice.

 

I'm suggesting that they do the tutorial with lots of AI turrets since that is proven successful in the PvP maps - why did they not at least include it in the tutorial?

 

They did have a turret in the tutorial, and frankly, when you have a stationary target, what more do you need?

 

I suppose it could have given an idea of what it's like to be shot at, but I think everyone understands that concept from the ground game.

 

There are plenty of games where the npc ai is good enough to shoot you down, the problem with having it in starfighter is all the damn rocks you fly into,

 

i would like a space level with very little to crash into, maybe a big ship or 2 and there would be no problem putting npcs in there

 

The problem with NPCs isn't the lack of space. It's that there is no AI capable of handling 3D space built into TOR. When the devs fix that, I assume we're going to start seeing PvE GSF missions, beacuse that's when they'll be able to get them to work.

[Bleakmage]

Review is a fail, however, it took Bioware since sometime In August of last year until Dec 3 to do a Super Secret Space thing and this is all they have to show for it? It might be fun, but only for a few hours at most.

 

There are 2 maps, and guess what? (Spoiler) They are basically the same exact thing. Of all of the myriad ways they could have done Space-based PvP, and this all they could come up with?

 

Well, for you 2 programmers (hypothetically) that programmed this (because if it was a team, hoo!) you did a great job, for just 2 people

 

Galactic Starfighter has been brought to you by Alan Smithee and Alan Smithee.

 

Maybe if we're lucky they'll add a third map in 6 months exactly like the other two. . .

[Klishar]

I agree with MasterMekku's first post, the review. There's clearly some alterations needed. Like the HUD should be less crowded with unnecessary junk, Strike Fighters need some upgrades to their damage and speed (if only a little), and Scout Fighters are too fast for their own good in some instances. Also, some others on this thread have posted about the number one killer of players in GSF: the environment.

 

For the issue with trying to stay behind a target and end up passing them (by this I mean an enemy player, not a stationary target), I'd recommend adding a "Follow Target" function to the keyboard. As in, players will be able to target an enemy ship, then hit a key (maybe "F") so that their ship will attempt to keep their speed matched with their target's. Won't of course do much good for an enemy Scout going at full speed, but it could be useful to a Scout trying to stay on the tail of a Strike. Because let's face it, "X" doesn't really do any good in some instances; if anything, it just makes you easier to hit.

 

As for Strike Fighters, they do seem to not be good for anything as they are an attempt at a more "balanced" fighter craft. My suggestion is to give them a boost to their laser cannons. I mean, we all remember Star Wars Episode IV, where X-wings and TIE Fighters tore each other apart using only laser cannons, not missile or torpedoes (except for the Death Star's exhaust port, though that was another target all together). And honestly, we can all agree that the Scout's speed makes it pretty hard to hit, right? So here's a way to improve Strike Fighters: upgrade their overall laser damage & performance so that they can tear any other fighter apart in an instant. I mean, I know missiles are pretty good against enemy fighters because they "seek" targets, but let's not make lasers just a useless attachment to ships.

 

For the part about there being too much "junk" on the HUD: nuff said. HUD's do not need that many lines and such crowding a screen, they just need to tell relevant information (hull, power, shields, etc).

 

As for the environment, it would be nice to be able to fly through space without having to worry about bumping into an asteroid (#1 killer of players in space pvp as it turns out). And we can all agree that Domination maps are reminiscent of the old pvp maps. My recommendation: new maps with no asteroids and objectives other than controlling satellites. There's a thread for this, if you want to check it out: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=703076&highlight=maps

Edited December 7, 2013 by Klishar

[Klishar]

As for the part about PVE space missions with AI's, that would be a cool thing to see. Though I would like it if they altered the mouse controls a little bit. I mean, it's bad enough trying to turn a ship using a mouse, you don't want to have to worry about center the cursor on the screen in order to make your ship fly straight. As it is, I for one find the current mouse control system rather sloppy & annoying.

 

For those of you who've gotten used to the current system, good for you. I'm just saying that some of us find it awkward and we'd rather have a control system where your ship would only turn when you moved the mouse. As in moving the mouse a little to the right would not send your ship in a continuous spin, just a little to the right. Reason why I say that this alteration is needed is because games such as Tachyon did it, and it allowed for precision control of your ship using the mouse, something I for one appreciated.

 

Honestly, the way they did it looks like they just cut-and-pasted the control system from flight simulator games that were designed for joystick use, without including support for sticks in GSF.

 

Which brings me to a question: some people on this thread are saying that this isn't a flight simulator, this is an MMO. Well, the ground game is an MMO, that is true, but GSF looks a lot like a flight simulator-type add-on. By that I mean it's got 3D maps that have no rails to adhere to, as in you control where the ship is going without having to follow a predetermined flight path. If this is not reminiscent of flight simulators, could someone post an informative/mature answer to why it is not?

Edited December 7, 2013 by Klishar

[MisterBlackJack]

You mean the tutorial that tells you only how to customize your ships and queue up? Or did you mean the little description that tells you to win the game you need to control the three points until you reach the goal amount of points first?

 

Because those instructions were exactly what were needed. (Yeah I'm being sarcastic.)

 

You do know there is a training simulation map in the HUD that you can practice maneuvers and targeting turrets in right?

[MisterBlackJack]

Yeah they have said that, but really - the turrets in PvP seem to have reasonable AI. They could have at least had you capture 3 nodes in the tutorial with an increasing number of turrets that actually fire back at you like they do in a match. I don't see how that would be too tough to pull off.

 

The tutorial could have been lengthened to include both maps as well, to give players a chance to fly around the battlefields and check out the layout. The Kuat Shipyards node seems to be especially problematic for new players - navigating in and around the infrastructure there. Allowing you to do that without someone chasing you would at least give a new player a chance to hone thier flying skills a bit before the pew pew starts.

 

The turrets are not moving freely throughout a map, there's no problem with stationary AI, it's moving AI is what's causing the problem hense why a Flight sim Space PvE version is in the distant futuer

[Gavin_Kelvar]

Review is a fail, however, it took Bioware since sometime In August of last year until Dec 3 to do a Super Secret Space thing and this is all they have to show for it? It might be fun, but only for a few hours at most.

 

There are 2 maps, and guess what? (Spoiler) They are basically the same exact thing. Of all of the myriad ways they could have done Space-based PvP, and this all they could come up with?

 

Well, for you 2 programmers (hypothetically) that programmed this (because if it was a team, hoo!) you did a great job, for just 2 people

 

Galactic Starfighter has been brought to you by Alan Smithee and Alan Smithee.

 

Maybe if we're lucky they'll add a third map in 6 months exactly like the other two. . .

 

You know this is early access and not the full release of GSF right? Most of the content is being saved/polished for the full release in February.

[Klishar]

You know this is early access and not the full release of GSF right? Most of the content is being saved/polished for the full release in February.

 

Oh, so more polishing is going to come out soon? Good, GSF needs it. And not just new maps either, though new maps & play types are a must-have for a space combat module.

 

My biggest peeve is the controls which were implemented. As I said earlier, I would've prefered it if the ship would only turn when you actually moved the mouse. And I would not have to move the mouse back to the center of the screen in order to get the ship to stop turning. And I know that practice would probably help, but the controls just drive me so crazy I ragequit the tutorial before I've even lasted a few minutes.

 

Which of course brings me to the real point of this post: as it turns out, one size doesn't fit all. To really make GSF a huge success, Bioware should allow for a wider variety of control options. Reason why is because everyone has their personal preference; some like joysticks, some like the current mouse controls, others would like to use an xbox or ps3 controller to fly their ships.

 

(Btw, could someone post how you're able to link an xbox controller or a ps3 controller to your computer? Or at least provide a link that shows how it can be done? I didn't know you could do that.)

 

My advice to Bioware is to put priority into providing support software for joysticks, gamer pads, etc and to give the option to change the mouse controls to what I listed above. Reason why is because if you're trying to appeal to a wide audience, you've got to make an effort to cover the entire audience. You can't just say "One size fits all" and expect that to work out; there are always going to be those who don't like that style.

 

And honestly, you don't have to release support software into the general game. Just put software packs on the website which people can download so that they can decide what they want to use in GSF. Like if someone wants to use a joystick, they can download a software pack that allows for joystick use.

 

And besides, I ran into a thread a while back (can't find it now) in which a guy posted that when he told his friends that swtor was coming out with an open-world space pvp combat module that didn't support joysticks, their response was "Heh, good luck with that." So, at some point in the near future, release some support software that allows for different controllers to be used, just so no one feels left out. When you were introducing GSF, you guys said that you did not want to create a caste of haves and have nots. Well as it is, there are those who are okay or even like the current setup (the haves), and then there are those who are not fans of it (the have nots). And I'm sure I speak for every other have not out there when I say that we don't like being trolled by the haves. (I actually considered ragequiting swtor after getting trolled extensively on the first day of GSF.)

[Turajin]

The problem is that they haven't figured out how to get the AI to move properly, so we can't have PvE, and because we can't have PvE, we can't have a tutorial with ships that move around and fire back at us.

 

The AI tech apparently isn't available right now. One of the devs blatantly admitted as much when they said GSF was PvP only. Frankly, without the AI to fly the fighters, they did the best tutorial they could.

Someone mentioned the WIng Commander and X-Wing series to have good AI. I played and enyoued them both, and yes, AI was, as far as I remember, quite good - at least good enough. Those games are from the 90's. How the hell can it be that they figured out a good AI twenty years ago, and today they are unable to do that?

[MalakaiCaine]

Someone mentioned the WIng Commander and X-Wing series to have good AI. I played and enyoued them both, and yes, AI was, as far as I remember, quite good - at least good enough. Those games are from the 90's. How the hell can it be that they figured out a good AI twenty years ago, and today they are unable to do that?

 

hell, freelancer had good enough ai, etc. elite, freespace, there's a whole SLEW of space games with decent AI.

[Turajin]

hell, freelancer had good enough ai, etc. elite, freespace, there's a whole SLEW of space games with decent AI.

Then why is it that the developers of GSF couldn't come up with a good AI for their game so they could include an PvE-Environment?