Hardmode queue time!

[NrDLeipe]

As a tank my answer is simple, with guildies i have a smooth fast run with random pugs you never know what you gonna get and in this game no offense but most Dps are just idiots. they pull before you they attack the wrong targets etc .

ofc there are good players around but those are kind of rare

 

Then you have those ppl when you ask all know this fight, cause its kinda the tanks duty to make sure all know tactics etc and then ppl say yes or no answer at all and they have no clue what to do wich is a pain cause its a wipe and a waste of time i pref to explain fight before we start for 1 min then fight a boss for 5 min then wipe run bck and then still need to explain the fight

 

There is no reward high enough for me to pug fps cause it wont change ppl behavior , credits got enoguh , mounts and gear etc gtn is full of them, commedations is a joke cause they are everywere etc .

i pref that smooth run with guildies instead of high reward but a headache aswell

Edited December 5, 2013 by NrDLeipe

[MillionsKNives]

People keep mentioning that DPS will queue as healer or tanks and ruin everything if there were rewards for them. The problem with that argument is that you would need to complete the flashpoint in order to get the rewards. If it's that painful, or impossible to complete with them in their gear/spec then they will be removed and not get the reward. I'd bet that in short order they would be kicked often enough that they'd stop trying, especially if they were just looking for the rewards.

[DarthTHC]

People keep mentioning that DPS will queue as healer or tanks and ruin everything if there were rewards for them. The problem with that argument is that you would need to complete the flashpoint in order to get the rewards. If it's that painful, or impossible to complete with them in their gear/spec then they will be removed and not get the reward. I'd bet that in short order they would be kicked often enough that they'd stop trying, especially if they were just looking for the rewards.

 

Yes, that problem with rewards is self-correcting.

 

The real problem with rewards is that no matter what they are (within the realm of what BWEA would reasonably put into the game), they are insufficient to overcome the barrier that truly idiotic DPS present. If you read most of the tanks' responses in this thread, you will see that is a very consistent theme.

[Shikyo]

I said it once earlier in this thread and I'll say it again.

 

Player attitudes and behavior are the problem and that is nothing BioWare can fix.

 

I will never find that putting up with bad attitudes or ill behavior is fun by any means thus will never do it no matter the rewards. What you have here are the consequences to such attitudes and bad behavior. Unfortunately, those that have done nothing wrong end up in the crossfire of such consequences but there is good news. If you have a good attitude and model good behavior, then it will not take you long to find a guild to then run you through all the HM FP's you could dream of!

 

Bioware gave us the tools to make grouping pretty darn easy and not very invasive to normal play. We, the players, choose whether to use them or not.

 

Something that all these posts in this thread have in common: They all give examples of bad attitudes and behavior that are commonly encountered inside a PUG HM FP. On top of that, most of them involve wanting BioWare to dangle some increased incentive to convince players to deal with these bad attitudes and behaviors anyway. This I cannot agree with on any account. As a tank and a healer, it would not change whether I PUG in GF or not. I would just absorb those rewards with my guildies.

 

We, the players, made our bed and now we have to lay in it. Don't like it? Try changing the sheets! Sure, it's going to take time to change such a negative perception around GF PUGS but you have to start somewhere.

 

Suggestions for the meantime:

-Find a guild

-When you encounter good Tanks, Healers, or DPS. Talk to them and add them to your friends list.

-Use your friends list to see if anyone wants to hit a HM FP with you.

-Profit

 

If none of the above help you out, then perhaps you need to look in the mirror and evaluate your attitude and behaviors as there might be a good reason why nobody wants to group with you.

[Lord_of_Mu]

Ear and Implants for DPS & Healer - not worth it before 72 ... crafted 53 level Makeb reputation recipes ones are at least on par with Arcanium gear. Main hand / some offhand - I find it better to use crafting / money than PUGing with morons.

Tanks ... screwed again - drop and comm implants before OPs token or some rare Black Market OPs ones are with high end/accuracy/absorption

No big difference on DPS companion between purple 66 and 69... so I suppose there will not be between 69 & 72.

Even with 78s your tank companion will die or lose agro on almost every if not every HM FP boss. DPS one would survive those that not place circles or use positional/kill if not avoided attacks - but as I remember every last one have such one that kill companion in first 10-20 seconds of fight. Healing one - 5 seconds more life than DPS one because of self healing but still not worth mentioning.

 

Until they make them with better AI and DAO style tactics ... no use for HM FPs.

If they make them - much more worst life for DPS players because for group with tank and healer it will be better with DPS companions than above 50% of PUGs

 

I've had some success with my 66 geared Treek tanking HM Labs. Granted I was the healer so I had an easier job of keeping her alive. I've also had some success on HM Mando raiders with Treek in 66 gear, healing me as the tank. Of course the replacement healer arrived right as I pulled the 4 bosses so that wiped us.

 

I used Treek to tank for my commando healer while leveling him because some tanks would leave at the queue pop. And prior to the Hutt Cartel expansion, I used Qyzen on my sage for a few False Emp runs. Qyzen had some threat issues but this was all prior to companions getting a few adjustments.

 

It isn't easy but it's doable. Above all else, my point has been to make companions better by adding companion specific sets, talent tree upgrades, UI upgrades and some AI upgrades then throw them in as an option for the group finder to consider.

 

In a worse case scenario, you would have two dps with two companions (Tank and Heal) but queue times would be near instant because all roles would be filled. It just wouldn't be filled by players and the work load on those two dps would be much higher. They can either do the harder work or choose to wait for players to do the work for them.

 

An option could also be added to fill the roles being filled by companions as the group is progressing.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Lord_of_Mu

[slafko]

Suggestions for the meantime:

-Find a guild

-When you encounter good Tanks, Healers, or DPS. Talk to them and add them to your friends list.

-Use your friends list to see if anyone wants to hit a HM FP with you.

-Profit

 

This can only work if the friends list were legacy-wide. Alas, it is not even though it should have been implemented at the launch.

[DarthTHC]

This can only work if the friends list were legacy-wide. Alas, it is not even though it should have been implemented at the launch.

 

Why? If someone is willing to put you on their friends list, why wouldn't they be willing to tell you the names of other characters they'd be willing to group with you on?

 

It's supposed to be a Massively Multiplayer game. That means social interaction can occur. Try it sometime. You may find it intriguing.

[wainot-keel]

Yes, that problem with rewards is self-correcting.

 

The real problem with rewards is that no matter what they are (within the realm of what BWEA would reasonably put into the game), they are insufficient to overcome the barrier that truly idiotic DPS present. If you read most of the tanks' responses in this thread, you will see that is a very consistent theme.

 

I've met plenty of idiotic tanks and healers too. It seems you think idiocy is selective... Interesting....

Edited December 6, 2013 by wainot-keel

[ItachiZaku]

My first experience healing a HM last night, the queue was 15 minutes and one of the over geared DPS took it upon himself to be the offtank/go the other way type. For my first real non-PVP healing experience in a very long time (1.5 years), it made me a little nervous.

 

Aside from that, a few more queues and there were no problems. Queues weren't overly quick, but I had some stuff i needed to do anyways.

[DarthTHC]

I've met plenty of idiotic tanks and healers too. It seems you think idiocy is selective... Interesting....

 

Oh, not at all. But the propensity for idiocy is much higher in DPS than in tanks and healers. Well, people who are really tanks and healers as opposed to DPS who queue as those to get in faster.

 

If I queue, I queue as Tank/DPS or Heal/DPS. Sometimes I get the DPS role. If the tank/healer is really a tank/healer and not a DPS trying for a fast queue, they're almost universally competent.

 

That clearly, based on feedback in this thread, is not the case with DPS.

[ScarletBlaze]

The problem is we shouldn't expect Bioware to fix this . This is something they can't do. They cannot force a tank or healer or even a DPS to que in a PUG. No matter what rewards they may offer they cannot force a person to do this.

 

The problem comes with the community and their attitudes and behavior. Some people I grant you are great and you like grouping with you but most are not willing to take a chance in a PUG and get someone that makes the flashpoint a headache.

Edited December 6, 2013 by ScarletBlaze

[Elfa]

Ask yourself "why did the tank drop group?". Was it because they had a RL emergency and had to go or maybe it was because one of the dps decided to pull a pack of mobs and leave the tank scrabbling to pick up aggro on mobs that have now scattered from their starting position? If the latter, put yourself in the tank's shoes. Packs of mobs start close enough together that the majority, if not all, can be hit with Mortar Volley, Slow Time or Force Sweep, thus gaining instant aggro on the pack. A pack that's moving towards the sentard that used double sabre throw is not quite so easy to gather up.

 

If you see a 50% drop rate of tanks, then examine your own behaviour and consider whether YOU are the reason they're leaving. If not, you're either unlucky or exaggerating.

 

Or perhaps it's because they know they can get right back into a group so instead of sticking through issues like DPS and Healers have to when they get a ****** Tank.

 

The other issues is because of their high demand and low numbers, they generally are already done with their FP on day one and geared up within weeks. Basically, they aren't queuing because they don't need to run FP's.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Elfa

[DarthTHC]

Or perhaps it's because they know they can get right back into a group so instead of sticking through issues like DPS and Healers have to when they get a ****** Tank....

 

Obvious solution is still obvious. DPS should roll tanks and learn to be better tanks than ^%*&^% tanks.

[Andryah]

I've met plenty of idiotic tanks and healers too. It seems you think idiocy is selective... Interesting....

 

Except he never said that. He simply said there is an over abundance of bad DPS hinging around in the queues.

 

AND.. wait for it.... DPS outnumber tanks and healers in the queue many times over.

 

Now back to the core issue... why would anyone queue for almost certainty of grief from a bunch of random scrubs... rather then grouping with people they know and trust? It is the random nature of queues coupled with a general lack of personal accountability and an over abundance of arrogance in the random environment by players that is the core issue.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Andryah

[Ottoattack]

It is interesting how this thread evolved to there is less "idiotic tanks and healer." This is not what is being discussed.. The questions is why are we using 1 tank - 2 dps and 1 healer format? We have 3 tank spec 18 dps specs and 3 heal specs, which is a ratio of 1:6:1 or 12.5%:75%:12.5%. This is were the problem is. This ratio is not a secret. The devs already knew it pre hand. It isn't news that roughly 75% of the population is dps. Why do we have a system that assumes only 50% of players are dps?! We already know that this is incorrect; result? long wait time for dps.

 

It is an inherent design flaw from the devs, that they did zero effort to try to fix. The solution is as simple as expanding the group size to take more dps and increasing mobs HP to balance for additional dps. The devs are just lazy.

[Elfa]

Obvious solution is still obvious. DPS should roll tanks and learn to be better tanks than ^%*&^% tanks.

 

I can't find fault with that logic. Of course, if your main is a DPS, rolling another character doesn't exactly help your main.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Elfa

[loudent]

I can't find fault with that logic. Of course, if your main is a DPS, rolling another character doesn't exactly help your main.

 

Perhaps not on an individual basis but imagine if every dps person rolled a tank or a healer and queued up when they played. So you queue up with your tank and a couple DPS get a group, then they queue up with their tanks and more dps get fast queues.

 

On an individual basis you can't necessarily make it better for yourself unless you stick to tanks or healers, but as a whole if more people queued as tanks or healers the queues would pop faster

[Nempo]

DPS are the single most populous role in all MMO's...it surprises you that the wait times are so long?

DPS is also full of absolute idiots incapable of managing their own agro. The tank is not there to control YOUR agro, only to offer buffer zones to everyone, if you are too stupid to know when to burst and when to back off and give the tank time...YOU are the reason that DPS que times are so long.

[gorstram]

DPS are the single most populous role in all MMO's...it surprises you that the wait times are so long?

DPS is also full of absolute idiots incapable of managing their own agro. The tank is not there to control YOUR agro, only to offer buffer zones to everyone, if you are too stupid to know when to burst and when to back off and give the tank time...YOU are the reason that DPS que times are so long.

 

Nempo, may I make the suggestion that you switch to decaf?

[lordspyder]

Nempo, may I make the suggestion that you switch to decaf?

 

Why? He is absolutely correct.

You know what is the fastest way to get me to drop your group and put you on ignore? Dismissing me by saying something like that or the almighty "Calm down bro, it's just a game."

 

I know it's just a game, a game I play to have fun. It is not fun for me to wipe for the millionth time in Lost Island cause your *** dropped the static right on top of the group, or you rushed in before me and the group reacted like a break on a pool table, or the million other things that the DD's do.

 

No, when you just dismiss my criticism like that, it shows me that you are unwilling to learn, I'm not dealing with that. Good luck finding a new tank, you pool to choose from just got 1 smaller.

[DarthTHC]

Why? He is absolutely correct.

You know what is the fastest way to get me to drop your group and put you on ignore? Dismissing me by saying something like that or the almighty "Calm down bro, it's just a game."

 

I know it's just a game, a game I play to have fun. It is not fun for me to wipe for the millionth time in Lost Island cause your *** dropped the static right on top of the group, or you rushed in before me and the group reacted like a break on a pool table, or the million other things that the DD's do.

 

No, when you just dismiss my criticism like that, it shows me that you are unwilling to learn, I'm not dealing with that. Good luck finding a new tank, you pool to choose from just got 1 smaller.

 

Actually he's kinda wrong.

 

As a tank, I never have a problem keeping aggro off the DD's once properly engaged, but his rant says that's the main problem. Not even close.

[loudent]

Actually he's kinda wrong.

 

As a tank, I never have a problem keeping aggro off the DD's once properly engaged, but his rant says that's the main problem. Not even close.

 

I think that's exactly his point. They don't let him get properly engaged.

[DarthTHC]

This is mildly entertaining. I've rolled a pure DPS - Sentinel. The number of not-a-tank's and not-a-healer's I'm running into on my way up is astonishing.

 

Note, not bad tanks or healers, but DPS that have queued as those roles.

 

"How do you taunt without attacking?" Really? Why did you queue as a tank?

[lordspyder]

This is mildly entertaining. I've rolled a pure DPS - Sentinel. The number of not-a-tank's and not-a-healer's I'm running into on my way up is astonishing.

 

Note, not bad tanks or healers, but DPS that have queued as those roles.

 

"How do you taunt without attacking?" Really? Why did you queue as a tank?

 

That is disturbing, I haven't seen that very often, but if a tank I was with even mentioned not knowing how to taunt I wouldn't even respond. That is an instant vote kick infraction...

[DarthTHC]

I've queued into 5 flash points today (all mid-level). So far, 3 not-a-tank and 3 not-a-healer.

 

My opinion of DPS is plummeting.