Why are their no macro's again?

[DarthLeeloo]

They don't give you a distinct benefit? Now you are just kidding yourself.

They certainly can be a great benefit when properly implemented. I also agree with his point that they can be a detriment to your play sometimes. Trying to automate too much can get you into trouble or result in mediocre output. It's making it easier on the user regarding how many buttons they have to push, but it doesn't always equate to superior performance.

[blackcerberus]

That is simply convenient key/button arrangement. As long as you're pressing or clicking a button before each ability, you're not using macros. That's completetly legal and not in violation of the ToS.

 

A macro would be if you pressed one button and it activated multiple abilities.

except, no

 

that would be one of the definitions of a macro. you can have macros with no logic, no timing, no checkups. they are still macros, tho

 

check my post in page 6 of this thread, where the DEVELOPERS admitted that a macro that lets you press 1 4 times, and each time it would do, in a cycle, skill 1, skill 2, skill 3, skill 4 with each keypress is completly within limits of acceptable.

 

it complies with the "one click one skill", has no logic added to it, and still it would be useful.

 

 

the currentproblem of the game is that this is ALLOWED by the developers, and some people can take advantage of it (and are doing it) thanks to expensive programmable mouses/keyboards, while others cant because they lack the bucks and the game doesnt have a free ingame option to do the same.

 

 

some people ARE using macros, and they risk nothing because it is ALLOWED. but other people CANT do the same because its an entirely "paid" feature...paid outside of the game, that is

 

if you cant see how wrong this is, I dont even know how to continue debating with you

 

 

I said it once, and I will say it again.

if they dont want ANY kind of macros, fine by me, but then BAN EVERYONE using a naga/programmable keyboard.

if they are fine with certain kind of low-level macros, as they seem to be, then add an ingame option that allows people to do ingame the same without spending 100 bucks on a mouse/keyboard.

Edited November 14, 2013 by blackcerberus

[Hyfy]

They certainly can be a great benefit when properly implemented. I also agree with his point that they can be a detriment to your play sometimes. Trying to automate too much can get you into trouble or result in mediocre output. It's making it easier on the user regarding how many buttons they have to push, but it doesn't always equate to superior performance.

 

No it doesn't always equate to superior performance. In turn though you can't say "because it doesn't always equate to superior performance it therefore never equates to superior performance", which in no uncertain terms is what he was implying.

[AlexDougherty]

No it doesn't always equate to superior performance. In turn though you can't say "because it doesn't always equate to superior performance it therefore never equates to superior performance", which in no uncertain terms is what he was implying.

 

Yes, it depends on how they are set-up, and once you start relying on them it's hard to stop, and they really great players can out-perform them, making them a crutch for players who will never hit the highest level of skill.

[illgot]

Yes, it depends on how they are set-up, and once you start relying on them it's hard to stop, and they really great players can out-perform them, making them a crutch for players who will never hit the highest level of skill.

 

That is false. If a player binds 10 skills to 1 button they will not be that great.

 

But a good rotation does not use all your skills on the skill bar. You may only need 5 for an optimal DPS roation. In which case binding 1-2 or even 3 if they are timer based will not hinder the gamers stats in the least. If anything, certain combinations of skills bound to one button is better than having just 1 skill per button.

 

It depends on the player and the set up.

 

It is an ignorant statement to say that if a player uses macro's they will never "hit the highest level of skill". Smart macro users can exceed manual users simply because they will have nearly instant reactions with the right key bindings.

Edited November 14, 2013 by illgot

[blackcerberus]

this discussion will never move forward until people accept (and let sink in their heads) this 3 simple facts:

 

fact 1

macros dont necessarily have to automate sequences of actions to be macros. you can have incredibly useful 1press-1skill macros

 

fact 2

macros as explained in fact1 are currently allowed in SWTOR and you bear no risk of punishment whatsoever for using them

 

fact3

some people are already using them while others not so fortunate cant

 

 

13 pages of going in circles discussing if macros are/arent lazy, if you need/dont need to L2P, or how useful is/isnt having a 1-click-autoplay....sigh

 

so guys, let me refocus the discussion to where it matters:

 

 

macros of a certain fashion exist, are currently allowed by the developers, and people using expensive gadgets are taking full advantage of them, but the game itself doesnt offer an UI to use them for free, so without those gadgets you cant use them.

 

 

HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THAT?

Edited November 14, 2013 by blackcerberus

[CarpeSangrea]

I just want to macro emotes so i don't have to type the whole thing in every...freaking...time.

[Hyfy]

Yes, it depends on how they are set-up, and once you start relying on them it's hard to stop, and they really great players can out-perform them, making them a crutch for players who will never hit the highest level of skill.

 

I agree they can become a crutch, though I think you may be mistaking me for someone advocating for their use. Quite the opposite actually. I was rather, at least a few posts before this one, questioning the claim someone made that macros don't give someone a distinct advantage. And yes sometimes they can be overdone and become a hinderance instead of a help, but like I said, just because they don't an advantage 100% of the time that doesn't equate to they can't give you an advantage.

[Ardarell_Solo]

The ability to activate several abilities/cooldowns in just one GCD is a matter of skill. Not only knowing when to do what should separate players from another, but also pure dexterity. Strongly against allowing macros hence! Edited November 14, 2013 by Ardarell_Solo

[ImpactHound]

this discussion will never move forward until people accept (and let sink in their heads) this 3 simple facts:

 

fact 1

macros dont necessarily have to automate sequences of actions to be macros. you can have incredibly useful 1press-1skill macros

 

fact 2

macros as explained in fact1 are currently allowed in SWTOR and you bear no risk of punishment whatsoever for using them

 

fact3

some people are already using them while others not so fortunate cant

 

 

13 pages of going in circles discussing if macros are/arent lazy, if you need/dont need to L2P, or how useful is/isnt having a 1-click-autoplay....sigh

 

so guys, let me refocus the discussion to where it matters:

 

 

macros of a certain fashion exist, are currently allowed by the developers, and people using expensive gadgets are taking full advantage of them, but the game itself doesnt offer an UI to use them for free, so without those gadgets you cant use them.

 

 

HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THAT?

 

Razer™ can suck my balls.

[AlexDougherty]

I agree they can become a crutch, though I think you may be mistaking me for someone advocating for their use. Quite the opposite actually. I was rather, at least a few posts before this one, questioning the claim someone made that macros don't give someone a distinct advantage. And yes sometimes they can be overdone and become a hinderance instead of a help, but like I said, just because they don't an advantage 100% of the time that doesn't equate to they can't give you an advantage.

 

I get that you weren't advocating them, it was just that your post was the best one to use to add my view, as it was leaning in the direction I wanted to go.

[NoFishing]

HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THAT?

 

I feel you are trying to derail the discusson. The OP and the few agreeing with him want them so they can bind multiple skill activations to a single keypress. An in-game macro system that was restricted to 1-keypress = 1-activation would not satisfy them, or most of the players that either want or use them currently with 3rd party hardware and software.

[byteresistor]

An in-game macro system that was restricted to 1-keypress = 1-activation would not satisfy them

??? That's called a keybind and we already have them so ofcourse it would not satisfy anyone.

[NoFishing]

??? That's called a keybind and we already have them so ofcourse it would not satisfy anyone.

 

Blackcerberus was referring to a specific (and imo, hypothetical) macro that someone could create where they could just press a single key over and over again and have it send a different key each time it is pressed. As long as this macro did not try to send multiple keystrokes, or implement any kind of timing logic, it would be allowed by the ToS.

 

So not quite a keybind, but close enough that nobody on either side of the argument is likely to care. And discussing why there is no in-game system that supports such a limited but acceptable macro is a waste of space.

[captpickles]

Look, the whole debate cab stop.

 

*IF* macros could work, they'd be in the game already. Macros would invite more players to sub, or f2p-preferred and make money because if you make it easier... more people play.

 

we all know and agree BW and EA are about making money.

 

so why are they not in the game? Same reason as i said 4-6 pages back. the engine cannot support it.

 

if it could be done, then there would be money to be made and EA would do it.

Edited November 14, 2013 by captpickles

[Vember]

Those are really neat... But I dislike the Razer Naga, (find it uncomfortable, not multibutton mice, just the razer naga) And I pref. to play SWTOR on my laptop.

 

 

*gasp!*

 

I can't play without my razer naga o.O Or the LG version, I have both. You can also program naga buttons to modifiers, like ctrl and alt. I have a crapton of keybinds at my disposal with that mouse.

[Lugosi]

Sorry... I don't understand... Macro's don't give you an advantage, their fair, they fix problems the game developers put in combat. Oh, and the most important part of all... THEY ARE OPTIONAL!!!

 

Me having macro's has nothing to do with another player who doesn't use them. So why should I not have them?

 

 

With a macro.. I have all these 3 items/skills on 1 button. I press that 1 button and then continue to fight. My proper use of macro's has saved me from pushing 4 buttons in 1 global rotation, into pushing 2. Moments like those are what separates an average PvPer from a high ranking PvPer. And I like to be the best... Yay, power, yay Sith.

 

.....

[captpickles]

Quote: Originally Posted by Nikkalos View Post

Sorry... I don't understand... Macro's don't give you an advantage, their fair, they fix problems the game developers put in combat. Oh, and the most important part of all... THEY ARE OPTIONAL!!!

 

Me having macro's has nothing to do with another player who doesn't use them. So why should I not have them?

 

Quote: Originally Posted by Nikkalos View Post

With a macro.. I have all these 3 items/skills on 1 button. I press that 1 button and then continue to fight. My proper use of macro's has saved me from pushing 4 buttons in 1 global rotation, into pushing 2. Moments like those are what separates an average PvPer from a high ranking PvPer. And I like to be the best... Yay, power, yay Sith.

.....

 

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaahhaah oooooowwwwnnnneedddd... oh and CHEATERRRRR!!!!

Edited November 14, 2013 by captpickles

[Zoom_VI]

Look, the whole debate cab stop.

 

*IF* macros could work, they'd be in the game already. Macros would invite more players to sub, or f2p-preferred and make money because if you make it easier... more people play.

 

we all know and agree BW and EA are about making money.

 

so why are they not in the game? Same reason as i said 4-6 pages back. the engine cannot support it.

 

if it could be done, then there would be money to be made and EA would do it.

 

Because, increased subs from macro-lovers would not compensate for sub loss from those of us who dislike automated gameplay.

[Eyesmindassassin]

except, no

 

that would be one of the definitions of a macro. you can have macros with no logic, no timing, no checkups. they are still macros, tho

 

check my post in page 6 of this thread, where the DEVELOPERS admitted that a macro that lets you press 1 4 times, and each time it would do, in a cycle, skill 1, skill 2, skill 3, skill 4 with each keypress is completly within limits of acceptable.

 

it complies with the "one click one skill", has no logic added to it, and still it would be useful.

 

 

the currentproblem of the game is that this is ALLOWED by the developers, and some people can take advantage of it (and are doing it) thanks to expensive programmable mouses/keyboards, while others cant because they lack the bucks and the game doesnt have a free ingame option to do the same.

 

 

some people ARE using macros, and they risk nothing because it is ALLOWED. but other people CANT do the same because its an entirely "paid" feature...paid outside of the game, that is

 

if you cant see how wrong this is, I dont even know how to continue debating with you

 

 

I said it once, and I will say it again.

if they dont want ANY kind of macros, fine by me, but then BAN EVERYONE using a naga/programmable keyboard.

if they are fine with certain kind of low-level macros, as they seem to be, then add an ingame option that allows people to do ingame the same without spending 100 bucks on a mouse/keyboard.

 

Perfect post, close thread now. The reason these 'anti-macro' people are arguing with you is because they are the ones with the advantage and the Naga's and the keyboards. They are the ToS violators and the culprits. We are the saints and the do-gooders. This is wrong. All we want is equality . All they want is inequality. Not only is it not right, it's disgusting and BioWare should amend this grave injustice by making macros usable by EVERYONE. NOT just the people in this thread who can afford to buy the hardware and then troll every macro thread that comes about so that they keep their pathetic advantage.

 

You are the bad players, not us.

[Mallorik]

I have all my macros on my keyboard and mouse, I can macro just about anything I want. But I still think it should be in game and I think its extremely unfair for people to have to go outside the game to get macro capability.

[Erasimus]

Because, increased subs from macro-lovers would not compensate for sub loss from those of us who dislike automated gameplay.

 

Actually macros are already in the game for anyone that has a programmable keyboard, mouse, gamepad, etc. There are a ton of those on the Market, including Star Wars the Old Republic branded ones.

 

So, what next, have the game software detect if you have any programmable device and ban you? Maybe people should be banned for using faster computers, larger screens, etc. I mean all of those give you an "unfair" advantage over someone who doesn't have them.

 

No macros that affect combat? That is a rather disingenuous response coming from a developer. Say I have a Razer game pad, binding abilities off the global cooldown that have a prerequisite for action, say trickshot to Charged Burst and to Aimed Shot. How do you stop someone from doing that? Put all abilities on the global cooldown? That would make combat even clunkier than it is already. Tell everyone they are permitted to use gaming keyboards, mice, pads only for games other than SWTOR, that won't fly very far.

 

Bottom line - Macros are already in the game, just not supported directly by the game. The only people disadvantaged are those that don't have the money to buy gamming gear.

Edited November 15, 2013 by Erasimus

[Froteus]

Hey Eyes... I think anyone who uses macroes with gear probably doesn't care if bw adds them in or not.

 

Can't afford a naga to get that fair play? Lmao. This is a high speed Internet pc game. You can afford a machine to run this game, the Internet to play it on, but not peripherals?

 

News flash: That's your problem, not the people who can afford the gear. You're shifting the moral responsibility of creating a level playing field from Bioware onto macro users who use peripherals sanctioned by Bioware.

 

No more a saint than just misguided is all. Your beef should be with Bioware not making it fair - how much you wanna bet they get a chunk of cash for those SW nagas? How much you wanna bet they want you to, ya know, buy one?

Edited November 15, 2013 by Froteus

[ELRunninW]

NOT just the people in this thread who can afford to buy the hardware and then troll every macro thread that comes about so that they keep their pathetic advantage.

You are the bad players, not us.

 

You cannot make assumptions like that. I don't use macros and I can afford to pay money to have access to them, yet I continue to argue. This thread can be closed if all you can do is insult other players.

[Hyfy]

I get that you weren't advocating them, it was just that your post was the best one to use to add my view, as it was leaning in the direction I wanted to go.

 

Ah huh I gotcha now. Sorry my brain has been stuck on stupid most of the day due to a severe lack of sleep over the last few days.