Quitting because no cross server PvP

[Plicitous]

They've been pretty clear that implementing this is not going to happen due to the limitations of the game engine. It's also pretty clear based on how many people participate in ranked PVP that it would be foolish for them to invest so much time and effort for what amounts to a very small slice of players. At the moment, there are only 5,000 players across all servers who've played enough games to get ranked. 5,000. That's it. It would be terrible for the game if BW dropped everything to make this happen...

 

Face it, the way you want it to be isn't how it is. Get over it and move on.

[ZNICK]

They've been pretty clear that implementing this is not going to happen due to the limitations of the game engine. It's also pretty clear based on how many people participate in ranked PVP that it would be foolish for them to invest so much time and effort for what amounts to a very small slice of players. At the moment, there are only 5,000 players across all servers who've played enough games to get ranked. 5,000. That's it. It would be terrible for the game if BW dropped everything to make this happen...

 

Face it, the way you want it to be isn't how it is. Get over it and move on.

 

 

And those 5,000 should ALL be fighting each other equally in the same pool.

 

 

NO ONE SEEMS TO REALIZE THAT BIOWARE WQOULD HAVE TO REDESIGN THE ENTIRE LOG IN SYSTEM AS WELL AS REWORK THE SERVERS IN ORDER TO GET THIS DONE!!

Cross server is no simple 10 minute process. Stop thinking that it is so simple! I am tired of hearing about people complain there is no cross server when it is very hard to do so and as they have stated, would take away from everything else they are working on. You would have to wait many, many months before even getting anything new, not like now with 2 or 3 months, but about 8 or 9 or maybe even the full year with nothing new. Again, stop complaining that they haven't been doing enough when its a very difficult and time consuming challenge!!!

 

So, stop assuming cross server is a 10 minute process that can easily be done, cut Bioware some slack, and if you really want to leave over that no one is stopping you but at least consider that pvp is not the entire game, and consider the pve people who would get nothing for the time period afore mentioned when trying to design this system for cross server, and consider what you would do if people kept shouting at you to do something that would take months of extremely hard work with no one happy in the meantime and probably find something wrong with it afterwards!!

 

No.

 

It would take a team of 2 or 3 ppl a few months.... MAAAAYYYBE. It's not that big of a job, lol.

 

Z

Edited November 14, 2013 by ZNICK

[Raansu]

They've been pretty clear that implementing this is not going to happen due to the limitations of the game engine. It's also pretty clear based on how many people participate in ranked PVP that it would be foolish for them to invest so much time and effort for what amounts to a very small slice of players. At the moment, there are only 5,000 players across all servers who've played enough games to get ranked. 5,000. That's it. It would be terrible for the game if BW dropped everything to make this happen...

 

Face it, the way you want it to be isn't how it is. Get over it and move on.

 

It would benefit pve to.

[Gray_Stalker]

They've been pretty clear that implementing this is not going to happen due to the limitations of the game engine. It's also pretty clear based on how many people participate in ranked PVP that it would be foolish for them to invest so much time and effort for what amounts to a very small slice of players. At the moment, there are only 5,000 players across all servers who've played enough games to get ranked. 5,000. That's it. It would be terrible for the game if BW dropped everything to make this happen...

 

Face it, the way you want it to be isn't how it is. Get over it and move on.

 

If these numbers are correct why have so many pvp servers? I am not saying you are not correct. I think that this makes for a very easy fix. Make every server RP but one. If pvp is such a small part of the game there should only be one pvp server. It only makes since to me. It would appear as though lots of people join a PVP server or RPPVP server to not pvp according to the numbers. Easy fix right? No need for cross server, just move us all to one server. The Idea gets me all exited.

[Raansu]

If these numbers are correct why have so many pvp servers? I am not saying you are not correct. I think that this makes for a very easy fix. Make every server RP but one. If pvp is such a small part of the game there should only be one pvp server. It only makes since to me. It would appear as though lots of people join a PVP server or RPPVP server to not pvp according to the numbers. Easy fix right? No need for cross server, just move us all to one server. The Idea gets me all exited.

 

I believe this has been suggested many times. Personally I'm not against the idea but there are people who don't like world pvp but enjoy instanced pvp so they stick to pve servers so its kind of a line thats hard to balance in that aspect.

[AshlaBoga]

They've been pretty clear that implementing this is not going to happen due to the limitations of the game engine. It's also pretty clear based on how many people participate in ranked PVP that it would be foolish for them to invest so much time and effort for what amounts to a very small slice of players. At the moment, there are only 5,000 players across all servers who've played enough games to get ranked. 5,000. That's it. It would be terrible for the game if BW dropped everything to make this happen...

 

Face it, the way you want it to be isn't how it is. Get over it and move on.

 

Well it's only been 2 days. Give 2 weeks and I bet that number will be 50,000.

[Xcelion]

BW failed this game from launch, I expect nothing less than that for the entire life of the game. Going from hundreds of servers and hundreds of thousands of players on launch to 20 servers and F2P in less than a year has to be the biggest failure on any level. They didn't listen to the community then and they won't listen now, and in the end it doesn't matter as something new will come along. If they would have backed off the launch day another year and polished the game, added content, and adjusted difficulty they could have had a better go of it. But alas this did not happen and here we sit. I for one have enjoyed the game, played 9 months at launch, left for a while, then came back to try it out. PvP is a joke for the most part, but hey I didn't design it, and still it has its bright spots and I am here playing it.

[AshlaBoga]

Implementing this feature should have been part of the design strategy from day one. They should have planned ahead.

 

True, but sadly it's hard to undo the programming mistake they made.

[Beeteel]

They are to busy adding space invaders and new cartel ****. What are u ppl on about. Its not like they have a dedicated pvp team.

[Baron_Samedi]

Implementing this feature should have been part of the design strategy from day one. They should have planned ahead.

 

They ****ed up from the day 1 in that.

Some quasi-managerial shmuck in BW ordered whole bunch of servers, thinking probably that all MMORPG players, from all other games, would move to SWTOR.

Wrong.

Then, they forgot that you need to send out AT LEAST 1 PvE program every 4-5 months to keep subscribers happy.

Also, they thought that SW base of fans is so strong, that no matter what they do, people will stick around. So they neglected the most pressuring problems, like not balancing PVP in the beginning and having problematic daily/weekly rewards (all you who remember - it was 6 or 7 wins PER DAY to get DAILY. Then it was 15 WINS for weekly. Losses didn't count. Any DC or mid-game quit was almost automatic loss, due to the other side being stronger and servers were too small populated to get a decent match quickly).

 

X-servers is a must. 2nd poster on page 1 is right - it IS a big job. It IS a great task. It IS. True.

But they will loose the only base they can count on, and that's PVP-ers.

For PvErs leave when there are no new bosses to kill, when they start to sleep on ops.

PvPers usually log, make daily/weekly and then leave. But come again tomorrow for more.

 

So I sincerely hope that BWs are ALREADY WORKING on X-servering.

PARALLEL to making new content.

[Baron_Samedi]

BW failed this game from launch, I expect nothing less than that for the entire life of the game. Going from hundreds of servers and hundreds of thousands of players on launch to 20 servers and F2P in less than a year has to be the biggest failure on any level. They didn't listen to the community then and they won't listen now, and in the end it doesn't matter as something new will come along. If they would have backed off the launch day another year and polished the game, added content, and adjusted difficulty they could have had a better go of it. But alas this did not happen and here we sit. I for one have enjoyed the game, played 9 months at launch, left for a while, then came back to try it out. PvP is a joke for the most part, but hey I didn't design it, and still it has its bright spots and I am here playing it.

 

That. From word to word. Kudos.

Except, IMHO, that PVP now is MUCH BETTER than it was before.

Now when we suck, I see we suck because of morons in my team, much less because some class is OP.

 

Btw, yesterday I was in pylons, rep vs rep.

WE WON overwhelmingly - although the other side had 3 SCOUNDREL HEALERS, 2 SHADOWS and 2 MARAUDERS! So...

[ImagineerAtHeart]

NO ONE SEEMS TO REALIZE THAT BIOWARE WQOULD HAVE TO REDESIGN THE ENTIRE LOG IN SYSTEM AS WELL AS REWORK THE SERVERS IN ORDER TO GET THIS DONE!!

Cross server is no simple 10 minute process. Stop thinking that it is so simple! I am tired of hearing about people complain there is no cross server when it is very hard to do so and as they have stated, would take away from everything else they are working on. You would have to wait many, many months before even getting anything new, not like now with 2 or 3 months, but about 8 or 9 or maybe even the full year with nothing new. Again, stop complaining that they haven't been doing enough when its a very difficult and time consuming challenge!!!

 

So, stop assuming cross server is a 10 minute process that can easily be done, cut Bioware some slack, and if you really want to leave over that no one is stopping you but at least consider that pvp is not the entire game, and consider the pve people who would get nothing for the time period afore mentioned when trying to design this system for cross server, and consider what you would do if people kept shouting at you to do something that would take months of extremely hard work with no one happy in the meantime and probably find something wrong with it afterwards!!

 

Apparently it is far better for them to focus on adding more things like cartel packs. So I can have a percentile chance at getting the purple lizard than having them take time to implement something this game could strongly use.

 

Cross servers would be hard though, so let's forget that idea. Hey! How about a pink Tauntaun for 4000 cartel coins to match the black one being sold for 3000 cartel coins? That will be easy, and will suck in a boatload of cash.

[Marcus__]

I am an advocate for x-server queuing as it now seems to be the only resort for pvp other than everyone getting a free transfer to a pvp server. It is a dying part of this game and something needs to be done, or at least acknowledged. With the amount of dissatisfaction on these forums I'm shocked no BW rep has bothered to even reply. I've said it before but was the warzone f2p limitation lift designed to remove any responsibility BW has for supporting pvp? Edited November 24, 2013 by Marcus__

[Tiron_Raptor]

Honestly, I might quit if they DID do cross server. It utterly RUINED PvP for me on World of Warcraft.

 

I was on a PvP Server, Darkspear. Sure, there was a queue on the Alliance side, but it wasn't that bad.

 

But the matches were competitive. Both sides actually had a chance at winning. People would actually listen, at least some of the time, and crazy things could happen.

 

My fondest memories of PvP are almost universally from before Cross-realms.

 

A WSG in the 21-30 bracket where we went down 0-2 to a travel-forming druid, which I caught and killed solo (after several people were dooming and glooming about him being uncatchable and how we'd lost), spurring us on to a 3-0 comeback to win 3-2.

 

An AB Match that was long, bloody, and very hard fought by both sides, that we ended up losing... 1990-2000.

 

A night in AB that started very, very badly, losing match after match, where I gathered together a sort of pickup premade out of the other people that were playing (starting with the other 4 that had listened to me in one match, together we managed to hold the lumber mill the whole match), eventually turning it around and starting to win matches.

 

As soon as Crossrealms came in, the queues went to nothing, but the quality of play went completely to pot. Apparently, the alliance in the rest of our battlegroup were complete morons and terrible players, because suddenly we lost almost every single match. The *only* BG where we had any kind of serious chance of winning was AV, and that was only because they'd cut out almost all the NPCs by then and started the 'race' strat.

 

Trick was, even in AV it could turn into the darkest hell via the stupidity of the Alliance.

 

Flipping towers and then leaving it undefended, letting the horde recap it.

 

Constantly screaming that they 'Need More O', when 3/4ths of the team is up there and the only reason we hadn't lost yet was heroic efforts on the part of the 10 that got trapped behind (literally trapped, there was a bottleneck it was almost impossible to get through once the horde controlled it.) Fact was, most of them preferred a fast loss to a slow win.

 

Rigidly adhering to 'the strategy', regardless of circumstances. Horde turtled up and invalidated the entire concept behind the strategy? Change your tactics to compensate? Hell no, NEED MORE O!

 

Even TWO YEARS later, after they'd changed it AGAIN (to add a resource based victory condition in addition to 'kill the enemy boss'), they were STILL using the same strategy, and still sticking to it just as rigidly, even though the horde had figured out they could turtle up and win on resources.

 

It was a complete nightmare. I ended up grinding out Commander rank by grinding out WSG and AB losses while waiting for AV to pop. Occasionally I would get into a premade with some of the other hardcore PvPers. Which frequently resulted in steamroll victories (in AB for example, their explict goal was a 5 cap) and not particularly fun.

 

In my experience and personal opinion, cross-realm battlegrounds was the second worst thing that ever happened to PvP in WoW.

 

I am EXTREMELY gratified that Bioware is against it. The gains aren't worth what it would cost.

[Raansu]

Honestly, I might quit if they DID do cross server. It utterly RUINED PvP for me on World of Warcraft.

 

I was on a PvP Server, Darkspear. Sure, there was a queue on the Alliance side, but it wasn't that bad.

 

But the matches were competitive. Both sides actually had a chance at winning. People would actually listen, at least some of the time, and crazy things could happen.

 

My fondest memories of PvP are almost universally from before Cross-realms.

 

A WSG in the 21-30 bracket where we went down 0-2 to a travel-forming druid, which I caught and killed solo (after several people were dooming and glooming about him being uncatchable and how we'd lost), spurring us on to a 3-0 comeback to win 3-2.

 

An AB Match that was long, bloody, and very hard fought by both sides, that we ended up losing... 1990-2000.

 

A night in AB that started very, very badly, losing match after match, where I gathered together a sort of pickup premade out of the other people that were playing (starting with the other 4 that had listened to me in one match, together we managed to hold the lumber mill the whole match), eventually turning it around and starting to win matches.

 

As soon as Crossrealms came in, the queues went to nothing, but the quality of play went completely to pot. Apparently, the alliance in the rest of our battlegroup were complete morons and terrible players, because suddenly we lost almost every single match. The *only* BG where we had any kind of serious chance of winning was AV, and that was only because they'd cut out almost all the NPCs by then and started the 'race' strat.

 

Trick was, even in AV it could turn into the darkest hell via the stupidity of the Alliance.

 

Flipping towers and then leaving it undefended, letting the horde recap it.

 

Constantly screaming that they 'Need More O', when 3/4ths of the team is up there and the only reason we hadn't lost yet was heroic efforts on the part of the 10 that got trapped behind (literally trapped, there was a bottleneck it was almost impossible to get through once the horde controlled it.) Fact was, most of them preferred a fast loss to a slow win.

 

Rigidly adhering to 'the strategy', regardless of circumstances. Horde turtled up and invalidated the entire concept behind the strategy? Change your tactics to compensate? Hell no, NEED MORE O!

 

Even TWO YEARS later, after they'd changed it AGAIN (to add a resource based victory condition in addition to 'kill the enemy boss'), they were STILL using the same strategy, and still sticking to it just as rigidly, even though the horde had figured out they could turtle up and win on resources.

 

It was a complete nightmare. I ended up grinding out Commander rank by grinding out WSG and AB losses while waiting for AV to pop. Occasionally I would get into a premade with some of the other hardcore PvPers. Which frequently resulted in steamroll victories (in AB for example, their explict goal was a 5 cap) and not particularly fun.

 

In my experience and personal opinion, cross-realm battlegrounds was the second worst thing that ever happened to PvP in WoW.

 

I am EXTREMELY gratified that Bioware is against it. The gains aren't worth what it would cost.

 

Take off the rose colored glasses. That same **** happened before cross realm and that same **** happens in swtor without it. There will always be bad pugs and this little "story" of yours means absolutely nothing. SWTOR is slowly dying, and without cross server queue's pvp will cease to exist in this game. Ranked matches have already slowed down to a crawl as most of the teams that queued in the first week have pretty much stopped queuing completely, people are queue syncing in the solo rated queues and the population in general pvp is just dead.

 

You're in the minority here. If you don't want cross server queue's then get lost and go sit in a queue for hours when pvp eventually dies.

[Tiron_Raptor]

I *would* rather sit in a queue for hours than deal with cross realms again.

 

Yes, bad pugs happen, even on single server. But it doesn't happen as OFTEN.

 

It's not a case of 'rose colored glasses' at all. I actually have an unusually good memory. It's not QUITE eidetic, but it's close. Details escape me, but the general gist of things does not. For decades.

 

I've gotten A's in college classes while taking no notes, reading the book assignments once, and not studying at all. Even open book/open notes tests, that single read through is enough that I can remember where the bit I'm looking for is at well enough to find it rapidly.

 

This does have a downside, however, because the same thing applies to books, movies, random wikipedia articles, Aurebesh (I started remembering the letter correspondences after FIVE MINUTES of using the swtor-tools translator)... everything, no matter if I want to remember it or not. If I read a book, I literally have to wait years to read it again, and I'll still probably remember most of the plot. Consequently there's so many books in this house that every bit of open wall space has a full bookshelf, and there still isn't room for them all. Plus two whole racks full of DVDs.

 

I remember very clearly how badly my win rate dropped after cross-realms. Yes, there were plenty of bad games and bad pugs before that, but at least some of the people would listen and learn. They'd see how you applied tactics and strategy in one game and come into the next with a better attitude and a greater willingness to coordinate. There's no possible way to achieve that in cross-realms, and so it doesn't happen.

 

The queue times dropped dramatically, but wins went from being a semi-regular daily occurrence, much like I find things on here now, to an extreme rarity, except in AV (as the horde hadn't yet figured out how to counter the race strategy).

 

I *very* distinctly remember what my daily routine was: Queue for WSG, AB, and AV. Do whichever of WSG or AB popped first. Re-queue for WSG and AB after the match. Repeat until AV pops, then do that instead.

 

At the time you could turn in the marks you got from the BGs for additional honor. There were quests to turn in a quantity of each individual one, and a more rewarding overquest to turn in a quantity from all three of them. You got 3 for a win, and 1 for a loss.

 

The rule I had was that I turned in AV marks as I got them, because we won that one fairly regularly. WSG and AB marks however were too rare and precious to turn in individually, and instead were to be saved for the 'all three' overquest. This despite the fact that I was generally able to run two AB or WSG matches before AV popped.

 

I only deviated from that routine for one of two reasons: I already had enough of either WSG or AB marks, and thus only queued for the one I needed, or I got into one of Iolo's AB premades.

 

I did this for months to get Commander and earn my Black War Tiger. I managed to get it the week after they changed the mount system, and as a result didn't get 150 riding skill for free.

 

Despite the fact that I was running approximately twice as many ABs and WSGs, the Alliance win rate in those two post Cross-realms was so low that I was able to regularly turn in AV marks by themselves as soon as I had enough, and still never had to wait any substantial period of time to earn more AV marks in order to turn in all three. They were precious because we lost almost every match, and thus I almost always only got one mark.

 

What I see in PvP now is much the same thing I saw on WoW pre-cross realms. There are idiots, and bad pugs, and good sith... but we win as many matches as we lose, and the queue times are far better than they ever were on wow, even in the blackest depths of night. At least in Unranked (my gear is not nearly good enough to try ranked yet.)

 

And honestly, people have been saying 'this game is dying!' since about a month after launch, it's a little old. If it dies, it dies. Somehow, I don't think it will.

 

And frankly? I don't really care if ranked PvP dies. Arenas were a terrible, terrible idea when Blizzard Implemented them, and they're just as bad on here. It's simply not possible to adequately balance a class based system for small group PvP. It simply cannot be done, and that kinda blows the whole concept out of the water right there.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Tiron_Raptor

[So-low]

This game needs cross server Queues or PvP will die completely. The PvP player base is simply not large enough on each server to have consistent queues. Even on the Bastion I have been waiting 30 minutes for a queue pop as a healer for solo ranked, and this is mid-day on a weekend.

 

On the Harbinger it is even worse. 2 Hours in queue as a DPS or Healer and no pop. If anyone thinks that is actually ok then I envy you for being that patient.

 

Group queue is worse. On Bastion there's maybe 3 teams queuing late at night. On Harb there's maybe a game or 2 once or twice a week.

 

And it's getting worse and worse as time goes on because the people who can't stand regs (such as myself) anymore after doing ~20,000 of them since game release get fed up with Arena que times and lack of competition and leave.

 

Also, IMHO it's a completely ridiculous fail concept of having cross server leaderboards with no cross server queues. For me it totally invalidates the purpose of the boards. It enables win trading on low pop servers, not to mention the feeling of "hey that guy has a higher rating than me... too bad I can't catch up because he gets more queues than me because of his server".

[Tiron_Raptor]

Okay, even I will admit that having cross-server rankings without cross server ranked WZs is stupid. Although my thought on that would be 'make the rankings server only.'

 

I do have a few other thoughts on the matter of the queue situation, however.

 

First off, clear your ignore list. The queue system is set up to avoid matching you with people you have on ignore, so if you've put a lot of people on ignore you may be effectively keeping yourself out of matches that way. (If others have put YOU on ignore there's not much you can do and you're just screwed.)

 

Second...if you roll on a PvE server, you have to expect a smaller community of serious PvPers. I mean, you're rolling on a server type that's explicitly for people that would prefer not to have as much PvP. There's bound to be fewer people that are interested in PvP, and a lot of the ones that do participate in it are going to be worse, because they don't care as much.

 

In all honesty, I wouldn't give that much of a crap if Ranked PvP were Cross-Server, but for God's sake, I really don't want all the PvE nublets that only care about their dailies and nothing else clogging up my unranked matches.

 

I am *not* grinding out losses again like I did on WoW, and if I get put in a situation where I have to, I'll just stop playing the game entirely, probably. At best I'll only participate in PvE with my guild, occasionally.

 

And I have every reason to expect that if *Unranked* matches go Cross-Server, that's exactly what'll happen. Hell no.

Edited November 25, 2013 by Tiron_Raptor

[JediMasterSLC]

Um I don't think ignoring people prevents you from getting put on their team....

[Tiron_Raptor]

Um I don't think ignoring people prevents you from getting put on their team....

 

It doesn't PREVENT it, but it does try to limit it, so far as I'm aware. You'll still see them, but it'll try not to pair you if it can avoid it. I don't know exactly how it works, but It's almost a given that it's going to increase your queue times by some amount or another, as it tries to put the two of you in separate matches.

[TOR-tanic]

Your ignore list only works for Group Finder. Not PvP.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Ranked matches have already slowed down to a crawl as most of the teams that queued in the first week have pretty much stopped queuing completely, people are queue syncing in the solo rated queues and the population in general pvp is just dead.

 

Well, people were VERY effective in scaring new players away from ranked.

 

I'm not surprised. Not at all.

 

If I read a book, I literally have to wait years to read it again, and I'll still probably remember most of the plot. Consequently there's so many books in this house that every bit of open wall space has a full bookshelf, and there still isn't room for them all. Plus two whole racks full of DVDs.

 

My memory is not that good, but I have exactly the same problem with books. And with movies.

 

When I'm going to a new place, I look at google maps, make a "photograph" in my mind, and that's it. I usually find my way, then, and have to ask only a few people.

On the other hand I can't remember names. I cannot ask for street names, unless I have learned them. But then, they just stick inside of my head. I just can't get rid of that.

 

My good memory almost only works regarding visuals. Everything I see. And, if I do a "photo" of that in my mind, it just sticks.

Edited November 25, 2013 by AlrikFassbauer

[Ashuranrx]

PvP was never the intended focus of this game from the start. The devs intended for this game to mainly focus on story and PvE during the early stages of game development. PvP was meant to be a mini-game. That is why the engine could not handle large scale open world PvP, because it was not designed and tested for it. That is why there is no cross server WZs from the start, because it was not designed and tested for it.

 

PvP became popular because the game's combat mechanics and the ease to join a WZ and play. So the devs put some effort into PvP to make it better post-launch, as the stastics show that there is a fair amount of participation in WZs.

 

But hardcore competitive PvP, AKA ranked WZs, were not popular, as the stastics show that there was little to no partiticpation. BW tried to do little things to improve it, like arenas. But they will never commit so much resource to make cross server just for ranked WZs, which is something that only a tiny pool of players participate. It doesn't make sense from a business perspective. They can't spend a lot for a little return.

 

Warzones are just like the upcoming Galactic Starfighter, one of the many themepark rides that players can choose from. If there is a good amount of participation for GS, then BW may expand it with more map types or even mission style PvE. Only a very few players go harcore on one theme park ride.

Edited November 25, 2013 by Ashuranrx

[Gnoblesse]

The devs intended for this game to mainly focus on story and PvE during the early stages of game development. PvP was meant to be a mini-game.

 

I see people making this claim on a fairly regular basis, but have yet to see anything to actually back up that statement. Meanwhile, I've seen pre-launch videos promoting how awesome OWPvP was going to be. Are you able to provide a link to a quote or video backing this up?

[Ashuranrx]

I see people making this claim on a fairly regular basis, but have yet to see anything to actually back up that statement.

 

It was stated in a very old interview released shortly after retail date 2 years ago. Let me see if I can dig it up.

 

 

Meanwhile, I've seen pre-launch videos promoting how awesome OWPvP was going to be.

 

Now these I havn't seen. Can you find these videos on youtube somewhere to show me?

Edited November 25, 2013 by Ashuranrx