''Lol Pandas''...(and the hubris of the commnitty)

[HammersteinSW]

I think the WoW vs Swtor issue has been debated ad nauseam. WoW will have a slow death and will still be around with a few million subs for another decade. Especially because it has such a large player base, some of which have committed a ton of time into their accounts and are reluctant to give up such an investment.

 

Swtor made the mistake of creating a WoW-style mmo when this type of mmos started to run out of fashion. We still have mechanics which would be more appropriate for an mmo from 2005-2007, but not 2013. The game just shows the long development cycle and the lack of vision.

 

Considering expansion. Their house version of the Hero engine is kinda limited, so I don't expect any big changes to the game. Swtor will hang around for many years as a niche game, just like Everquest 2, and I think EA will pull the plug as soon as they can get out of their contract to create something more profitable from an expensive license like Star Wars.

 

All in all Swtor can be compared to the last great steamliner, launched in a time when steamliners were becoming obsolete.

[Infernixx]

I think the WoW vs Swtor issue has been debated ad nauseam. WoW will have a slow death and will still be around with a few million subs for another decade. Especially because it has such a large player base, some of which have committed a ton of time into their accounts and are reluctant to give up such an investment.

 

Swtor made the mistake of creating a WoW-style mmo when this type of mmos started to run out of fashion. We still have mechanics which would be more appropriate for an mmo from 2005-2007, but not 2013. The game just shows the long development cycle and the lack of vision.

 

Considering expansion. Their house version of the Hero engine is kinda limited, so I don't expect any big changes to the game. Swtor will hang around for many years as a niche game, just like Everquest 2, and I think EA will pull the plug as soon as they can get out of their contract to create something more profitable from an expensive license like Star Wars.

 

All in all Swtor can be compared to the last great steamliner, launched in a time when steamliners were becoming obsolete.

 

That's an awesome opinion.

[spectreclees]

I think the WoW vs Swtor issue has been debated ad nauseam. WoW will have a slow death and will still be around with a few million subs for another decade. Especially because it has such a large player base, some of which have committed a ton of time into their accounts and are reluctant to give up such an investment.

 

Swtor made the mistake of creating a WoW-style mmo when this type of mmos started to run out of fashion. We still have mechanics which would be more appropriate for an mmo from 2005-2007, but not 2013. The game just shows the long development cycle and the lack of vision.

 

Considering expansion. Their house version of the Hero engine is kinda limited, so I don't expect any big changes to the game. Swtor will hang around for many years as a niche game, just like Everquest 2, and I think EA will pull the plug as soon as they can get out of their contract to create something more profitable from an expensive license like Star Wars.

 

All in all Swtor can be compared to the last great steamliner, launched in a time when steamliners were becoming obsolete.

 

A lot of truth in this post, well said.

[rethrox]

Wow was fun, but just like anything in life food,cars, romances, games etc. things get old. Change is good. Wow has had years to build it self up, grabbing all the eq and ff11 players that did not have the time to invest like myself and wanted a more casual game. Swtor did not do anything wrong and regardless of the game engine, its fun and easy. The only thing swtor took from wow was just that ( easy and casual). That is what most the people want today, they don't want to live entirely on a game to get anywhere. Swtor does that just fine.

 

Was Swtor easy as it is now at launch, NO,,,they changed xp a bit for subs so it is a smoother process. The game is not perfect bug wise, but it does give star wars fans and sci-fy fans that don't want to play fantasy anymore a new world to play in. It is still young, and if they keep adding content, which might not seem like alot, but small updates with different planets and stories and dailies will keep people occupied till everyone gets what they want. The bounty event might not of been what all the bounty hunters wanted, but it was something new to do, and the space pvp that is coming will be fun also.

In time this game could grow vastly past everyone's expectations with years of updates compared to the one your are so fondly saying is perfect that has had years of updates.

[branmakmuffin]

Swtor made the mistake of creating a WoW-style mmo when this type of mmos started to run out of fashion. We still have mechanics which would be more appropriate for an mmo from 2005-2007, but not 2013. The game just shows the long development cycle and the lack of vision.

Casual-friendly, theme-park MMOs are not only not out of fashion, they are the present and future of any MMO which hopes to attain mass-market appeal. EVE (and whatever "hardcore" sand box game replaces it) will probably always have a niche, but nothing more. Those days are gone.

[GalacticKegger]

Wow was fun, but just like anything in life food,cars, romances, games etc. things get old. Change is good. Wow has had years to build it self up, grabbing all the eq and ff11 players that did not have the time to invest like myself and wanted a more casual game. Swtor did not do anything wrong and regardless of the game engine, its fun and easy. The only thing swtor took from wow was just that ( easy and casual). That is what most the people want today, they don't want to live entirely on a game to get anywhere. Swtor does that just fine.

 

Was Swtor easy as it is now at launch, NO,,,they changed xp a bit for subs so it is a smoother process. The game is not perfect bug wise, but it does give star wars fans and sci-fy fans that don't want to play fantasy anymore a new world to play in. It is still young, and if they keep adding content, which might not seem like alot, but small updates with different planets and stories and dailies will keep people occupied till everyone gets what they want. The bounty event might not of been what all the bounty hunters wanted, but it was something new to do, and the space pvp that is coming will be fun also.

In time this game could grow vastly past everyone's expectations with years of updates compared to the one your are so fondly saying is perfect that has had years of updates.

They who believe that a 2 year old should have and do what a 10 year old has and does have yet to make it past 2 years themselves. Edited November 8, 2013 by GalacticKegger

[rethrox]

They who believe that a 2 year old should have and do what a 10 year old has and does have yet to make it past 2 years themselves.

 

^ this, guess i got long winded.

[ImpactHound]

They who believe that a 2 year old should have and do what a 10 year old has and does have yet to make it past 2 years themselves.

 

That's a bad analogy when other MMOs caught up on features long ago. Cross server chat, launching with dungeon queues, etc.

 

I'm surprised there isn't more pre-emptive taunting of whatever might be revealed today. What will the next "LOL _______" that haters use to bash WoW next?

[GalacticKegger]

That's a bad analogy when other MMOs caught up on features long ago. Cross server chat, launching with dungeon queues, etc.

 

I'm surprised there isn't more pre-emptive taunting of whatever might be revealed today. What will the next "LOL _______" that haters use to bash WoW next?

It isn't long ago yet, especially considering those other MMOs didn't begin with them. They too added stuff in as they grew. Thus the analogy is applicable. With this being a game and all, where people pay to lose themselves in a virtual and alternate reality dominated by "pretending" to imbue 1s and 0s with personality ... I don't understand why those who would soapbox themselves stupid that a game woulda/coulda/shoulda launched with what it has now can't just let yesterday go and get on with life. Unless soapboxing themselves stupid IS their life. Edited November 8, 2013 by GalacticKegger

[Frakkensteinse]

WOW = Fantasy

SWTOR = FANTASY in space

D

 

It got almost nothing to do with SciFi ffs!

 

Science fiction is a genre of fiction dealing with imaginative content such as futuristic settings, futuristic science and technology, space travel, time travel, parallel universes, and extraterrestrial life. Exploring the consequences of scientific innovations is one purpose of science fiction, making it a "literature of ideas".[1] Science fiction has been used by authors as a device to discuss philosophical ideas such as identity, desire, morality, and social structure.

Science fiction is largely based on writing rationally about alternative possible worlds or futures.[2] It is similar to, but differs from fantasy in that, within the context of the story, its imaginary elements are largely possible within scientifically established or scientifically postulated laws of nature (though some elements in a story might still be pure imaginative speculation).

[branmakmuffin]

It got almost nothing to do with SciFi ffs!

Quoting wikipedialyte to provide evidence of your point (whatever that point is), beyond "Who does the voice of Sakoal's wife?", is rather pointless.

[Grayseven]

It's easy to say that MMO's haven't "done anything new", but I don't hear any suggestions on what they should be doing new in order to not be a "WoW clone" (which should really be an EQ clone).

 

People talk about sandbox play, but offer no real suggestions as to how that should be implemented. SWG had a type of sandbox play that did nothing more than turn whole planets into urban sprawl. When they went to planets with a more rigid theme park style, they got accused of copying WoW...

 

If you are going to rail against the current MMO systems, bring with it constructive...and more importantly, realistic...suggestions for moving away from the status quo. Mindless blather about how much the current systems suck does nothing.

[Trollokdamus]

it has such a large player base, some of which have committed a ton of time into their accounts and are reluctant to give up such an investment.

I see this very line over and over from many different people. For some reason, you all are convinced that the only reason of WoW having such a big number of subscribers for so many years is that players can't force themselves to abandon what they've achieved in the game no matter of the game's current state.

You guys don't realize how much it costs to Blizzard to keep people's interest in a very old game when so many new and fresh alternatives come to the MMO market. They have to constantly evolve every aspect of the game, from graphics and traditional gameplay to additional features and story.

[Angedechu]

It was inexcusable to launch without a group finder in 2011. Period.

 

(The said group finder is still subpar currently, should I say. Not even a queue time...)

[Zoom_VI]

So basically the sky is falling and we are all going to be speaking pandaese tomorrow.

[Draksen]

Well, losing a third of the subs over two years (and in 2011, WOW was seven years old) is a far better performance than losing 75% of the subs over six months (from a game not even a year old)

Every MMO of the market "after WoW" has lost 40-70% of its player base in the first months.

There's too many MMOs now, the overall player base is diluted between all of them.

 

TOR is in term of post-WoW modern MMO is in a rather good shape now. It isnt WoW, it was never meant to be a new WOW, it's sci-fi, star wars, it's not perfect, but good enough as it is and evolving all the time.

 

WoW is the master of all, but dying slowly and surely. If you like SW you stay here, if you dont and think that WoW is awesome, go play it while you still can. Pointless topic all in all.

Edited November 8, 2013 by Draksen

[StarMagus]

It was inexcusable to launch without a group finder in 2011. Period.

 

(The said group finder is still subpar currently, should I say. Not even a queue time...)

 

I think it would be interesting to post how many Tanks, Healers, and DPS are in the Finder as part of the count down.

[CosmicKat]

Casual-friendly, theme-park MMOs are not only not out of fashion, they are the present and future of any MMO which hopes to attain mass-market appeal. EVE (and whatever "hardcore" sand box game replaces it) will probably always have a niche, but nothing more. Those days are gone.

 

We keep hearing the term "mass market" in relation to MMO's but the only one that comes close to that definition is WoW and then, only if other MMO's are used as the comparison.

 

Compared to any other entertain medium, MMO's are a tiny drop in the bucket that are only viable businesses because they can (or at least could) get away with charging $10-$15 a month to play them.

[DarkDisturbed]

Yet, the other game announced yesterday to still have 7.6 millions subs (stabilized from last report),

Can you give a source? As far as I'm aware, WoW has never had anywhere near 7.6 million subs. Infact, they've never reported any actual subscriber numbers. Just paying customers, if SWTOR reported paying customers it would have likely have triple the amount of subs it has. It's a smart way of tricking investors, because WoW's payment is different in Asia and it largely inflats the numbers while having nowhere near the same return as a "true" subscriber. Edited November 8, 2013 by DarkDisturbed

[ImpactHound]

Can you give a source? As far as I'm aware, WoW has never had anywhere near 7.6 million subs. Infact, they've never reported any actual subscriber numbers. Just paying customers, if SWTOR reported paying customers it would have likely have triple the amount of subs it has. It's a smart way of tricking investors, because WoW's payment is different in Asia and it largely inflats the numbers while having nowhere near the same return as a "true" subscriber.

 

LOL the source is Blizzard directly on a quarterly earning call. And while you can argue semantics on what a subscriber is, The last similar report from EA's investor's call placed subs at 500k with 1.5 mil active free accounts that had paid "something" extra to the cartel market. So your "SWTOR would have triple" statement falls flat.

Edited November 8, 2013 by ImpactHound

[DarkDisturbed]

LOL the source is Blizzard directly on a quarterly earning call. And while you can argue semantics on what a subscriber is, The last similar report from EA's investor's call placed subs at 500k with 1.5 active free accounts that had paid "something" extra to the cartel market. So your "SWTOR would have triple" statement falls flat.

 

Thanks, it was quadruple if your statement is true. Proving my point, +1 to you sir!

 

and it's not "semantics" if you know the difference in income between someone who pays cents by the hour to play WoW and someone who pays monthly.

Edited November 8, 2013 by DarkDisturbed

[ImpactHound]

Thanks, it was quadruple if your statement is true. Proving my point, +1 to you sir!

 

and it's not "semantics" if you know the difference in income between someone who pays cents by the hour to play WoW and someone who pays monthly.

 

What.

[Nemmar]

The point being that the ''Lol Pandas''-that were widely derided as ''that will kill WOW'' have not prevented WOW to still have 7.6 millions sub (including asian ones, yes, I know) at the end of the expansion cycle While TOR, whose launch was very soon after the Pandas announcement crashed and burned.

 

So, obviously, Blizzard did something better than Bioware.

 

Err.. no they didnt? WoW lost 6 million subscribers and SWTOR has gained at least 500k+, we dont know exaclty.

 

Balance since "lol padas":

 

WoW: -6mil

SWTOR: +500k+

 

I dont see your point. The panda expansion cost them alot of money and was a huge mistake. I dont think the new expansion will make much of a difference without radical changes.

Edited November 8, 2013 by Nemmar

[DarkDisturbed]

What.

 

I said that if SWTOR included all paying customers in their sub numbers like Blizzard's numbers, then SWTOR's "sub numbers" would likely be triple what they actually are, and you confirmed that it's actually quadruple, thank you.

 

Subscriber Definition: World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees' territories are defined along the same rules.

This is the thing, if someone has paid to play an hour or less to play WoW in the Asian market in the last month, they are counted as a full subscriber when they do no pay nearly as much as a real subscriber.

Edited November 8, 2013 by DarkDisturbed

[StarMagus]

Err.. no they didnt? WoW lost 6 million subscribers and SWTOR has gained at least 500k+, we dont know exaclty.

 

Balance since "lol padas":

 

WoW: -6mil

SWTOR: +500k+

 

I dont see your point. The panda expansion cost them alot of money and was a huge mistake. I dont think the new expansion will make much of a difference without radical changes.

 

Just because something happens after something doesn't mean it happened because of the vent. I don't think the "Panda" expansion had as much if anything to do with their loss of numbers, but more to do with several factors.

 

1. People who quit before the Expansion came back before it was released to be ready for it's content. After they finished they left again. Causing the numbers to skew.

 

2. General Burn out with WoW that would have happened no matter what they released.