Operative DPS Brainstorming

[Racter]

You say Assassins Maul for 10.5k. I've never been Mauled for more than 8k on my Operative. 10.5k maybe if the attacker was in full Obroan Augmented and the victim was a fresh 55. That is also assuming Maul crits both times as well.

 

Assassin burst is huge. Recklessness with Discharge and Shock plus a couple Mauls is gross. But if they do what you've suggested with Sneak, we'll get 4 Hidden Strikes in a row which would effectively stunlock someone for 6 seconds while you wail on them (assuming resolve doesn't engage. I don't think Hidden Strikes knockdown gives a lot of resolve, could be wrong). If you played the game at release, you'd know that they changed Jarring Strike from a 3 second knockdown to 1.5 seconds very quickly because people were infact using Cloaking Screen to get another Hidden Strike which would stunlock players for 6 seconds.

 

Lol. If you played the game at launch you would know our knockdown at launch instantly white barred. The second HS (and actually third because it was bugged back then (which is the only reason it has a CD now, Bioware couldn't fix it double hitting)) was used exclusively for damage. Your assassin damage is off too BTW. 9k 8.5k 7k 7k is pretty much bare minimum for my conq/part geared sin. Furthermore, I know math is probably not your strong point based on your other posts, but you might want to check the energy costs on that 4 hidden strike nonsense you listed above

 

Lol @ 1000 rated noname posting in a class balance thread. No wonder your ideas are total nonsense. Carebear attitude makes sense too. Seems legit have fun with that.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Racter

[Glower]

After 2.5 cover nerf... remove cover requirement for all operative dps, just tie it to top skill, 36 points for example.

But only for Leth and Concealment, not healing tree.

 

 

Let's just all agree that the devs have no idea how class balance works, accept it, and talk about how fat Darth Baras is.

 

Edited December 6, 2013 by Glower

[dbears]

Lol. If you played the game at launch you would know our knockdown at launch instantly white barred. The second HS (and actually third because it was bugged back then (which is the only reason it has a CD now, Bioware couldn't fix it double hitting)) was used exclusively for damage. Your assassin damage is off too BTW. 9k 8.5k 7k 7k is pretty much bare minimum for my conq/part geared sin. Furthermore, I know math is probably not your strong point based on your other posts, but you might want to check the energy costs on that 4 hidden strike nonsense you listed above

 

Lol @ 1000 rated noname posting in a class balance thread. No wonder your ideas are total nonsense. Carebear attitude makes sense too. Seems legit have fun with that.

 

Okay where to start..

 

I didn't mention anything about Assassin damage other than me personally have never seen myself get Mauled for 10k. I never said the damage from Discharge, Shock and a couple Mauls was weak. I have an Assassin (which plays PvE though) but I know opening with Recklessness, Adrenal and Relic is massive burst. So again, not entirely sure where you read me doing some math on Assassin damage.

 

The energy for Hidden Strike will not put you anywhere near out of energy. Even if it did, that's kind of what Adrenaline Probe is for. On a side note, opening with that slew of Hidden Strikes and Backstab would be stupid anyway because you'd be wasting Acid Blade ticks and Tactical Advantage procs. If you read back, you'll see that I'm AGAINST this whole "make Sneak reset the cooldown of Hidden Strike and make it useable out of Stealth nonsense".

 

As for Math not being my strong point? What other posts can you show me where my Math is off?

 

And yes, I did just enough Ranked Solo Queue to get a rating, but as a healer. I think I lost the majority of those matches because it IS solo queue after all. Trying to coordinate with people you don't know and without Vent/Mumble/etc. is next to impossible. My friends and I are waiting to get 1 more for our Ranked Team.

 

Like a lot of other people, I don't PvP DPS on my Operative much anymore because like everyone posting/reading here knows, the survivability and damage just isn't there.

[Jorojus]

I'd like to see an autocrit when I use backstab on a target that is poisoned by either acid blade or corrosive dart for the concealment tree, this would up the overall dps and make concealment a bit less dependent on their opener only.

[Fallenturtle]

Lol @ 1000 rated noname posting in a class balance thread. No wonder your ideas are total nonsense. Carebear attitude makes sense too. Seems legit have fun with that.

 

I'm sorry, and you are??

 

This thread actually has some good ideas in it. It's just sad to see that the devs have given up on communicating with us about our legitimate concerns. Maybe they want all operatives to heal and every other class do 35-40k damage in one rotation but us in pvp. I mean, I do not do ranked ques because I don't heal and dps operatives in ranked are not viable at all at this time with all these *** assins and smash monkeys running around.

 

I mean, I was having fun pre 2.5 on my leth op because of the ability to be in cover and set up from ranged without having the retardmonkeys leap to me and smash me for 9-10k.. now, I get angry playing pvp causing me to just splurt out everything under the sun (which again bioware doesn't even care what you say anymore)

 

It would be nice if the devs would care more about a twitch stream and actually say hey "we're taking these under advisment" and open up more communications.

[Uber_the_Goober]

I'd like to see an autocrit when I use backstab on a target that is poisoned by either acid blade or corrosive dart for the concealment tree, this would up the overall dps and make concealment a bit less dependent on their opener only.

 

I'd like to see an autocrit for all knife attacks whenever someone is poisoned by acid blade or corrosive dart. Our crits hit like 6 - 7k MAX anyway. Plus, ppl will have to get tricky to guarantee a hidden strike crit.

 

Smashers can have an AOE smash autocrit...why can't we have a single target situational (cleansable) autocrit?

[discbox]

Why this thread? No one at BioWare gives a s@#* about it. Over two years there have been suggestions by the players, and nothing happed.

 

Oh yeah - overload shot. This only shows that none of the developers even knows how the class and it's two dps trees works.

 

So why!? Just to make fun of us?

[wollegol]

It would actually make it easier for me if BW just came out and said:

 

"Hey, listen, we don't have the resources to implement a lot of class changes and work heavily on PVP class balance. We will focus on PVE balance and our new space project."

 

Then at least I would know under what conditions I play the game. Dps ops have been broken for over a year and still I hope that the next patch will fix it.

Edited December 7, 2013 by wollegol

[EnderSeventyFour]

My main is PvE Sawbones that I sometimes play Dirty Fighting when we lack dps and have too many heals. I also have an Operative that I mainly play Concealment in PvP, although not so much these days.

I've been leveling an Infiltration Shadow, which is a lot of fun. I like the Force Breach stacking, hence the Concealment/Scrapper idea.

 

Anyway here are my suggestions (posted in both forums)

Concealment/Scrapper

- Each Collateral Strike/Flying Fists grants 1 stack of Black Market Explosives increasing damage of Explosive Probe/Sabotage Charge by 10%. Stacks up to 3 times.

At 3 stacks Explosive Probe/Sabotage Charge can be used out of cover and grants Tactical Advantage/Upper Hand.

--> Burst damage unchanged, but rather more sustain damage in long fights.

 

Lethality/Dirty Fighting

- Your cover apply its full effect to targets affected by both your bleeding effects (weak version excluded, full cover effect meaning pre 2.5 cover)

 

Let's make it a real melee

- Backstab/Backblast has a (15/30%?) chance to refresh all bleeding effects of the target.

OR

let's make a mid range (more interesting imho)

- Overload shot/Quick Shot has 50/100% chance to grant Tactical Advantage/Upper Hand with a 6sec CD common to Shiv/Blaster Whip.

 

Medecine/Sawbones

- Talent to turn Orbital Strike/XS Freighter flyby into Orbital Kolto Strike. (okay just kidding, but still... can you foresee the epicness ?)

[Sideblaze]

Hey, uh, quick question, how come maul get's to be spammable and do more damage than out hidden strike and it got buffed? Because it's weapon damage? If so, that's a pretty STUPID reason bioware.

 

Buff hidden strike, Reduce backstab's cooldown. DO IT.

[Shadowhispers]

Concealment

 

Damage

 

Hidden strike - either internal dmg OR 100% ArPen

Acid blade - passive OR 0 energy cost ( personally i love the animation)

Backstab - 9 second CD

Lacerate - 30% surge bonus

Concealed attacks ( tier 1 skill) up the crit chance from 8/16% to 12.5/25%

 

Survival

 

15/30% aoe reduction added onto "scouting"

100% chance to grant evasion on Exfiltrate via "shadow operative elite" up from 50% (see below for CD)

Evasion - dodges all incoming damage for 2 seconds ( 3 with set bonus )

Swap "Evasive Imperative" from heal tree with "survival Training" in concealment tree

Sneak - Breaks immobilizing effects - immune to roots/knockbacks while active ( via "Ghost"),

"Revitalizers" - passive 1.5 / 3% max health regen every 3 seconds or Exfiltrate has 50/100% chance to make your next Kolto injection Free and instant cast ( see below for CD)

 

QoL

 

Incease range of Exfiltrate to 20meters ( 10 if slowed ) 10 energy cost, 15sec CD

"Advanced Cloaking" in addition to current effects, taking damage reduces the CD on Cloaking screen by 3 seconds, cannot occur more once every 1.5seconds )

[Shadowhispers]

oh yeah, forgot about explosive probe,

personally i got no problem with needing cover to use this, especially when u can use it to get a bit of distance sometimes, and its there ready to use on my coverbar, but 25 energy for a single target attack with 30sec CD? put it down to 15,

Infact, u can change overload shot to 10 while your at it since its still pretty rubbish for 17 energy

ooooooooor stick a 50% dmg boost to it on targets below 30% health

Edited December 10, 2013 by Shadowhispers

[Racter]

Concealment

 

Damage

 

Hidden strike - either internal dmg OR 100% ArPen

Acid blade - passive OR 0 energy cost ( personally i love the animation)

Backstab - 9 second CD

Lacerate - 30% surge bonus

Concealed attacks ( tier 1 skill) up the crit chance from 8/16% to 12.5/25%

 

Survival

 

15/30% aoe reduction added onto "scouting"

100% chance to grant evasion on Exfiltrate via "shadow operative elite" up from 50% (see below for CD)

Evasion - dodges all incoming damage for 2 seconds ( 3 with set bonus )

Swap "Evasive Imperative" from heal tree with "survival Training" in concealment tree

Sneak - Breaks immobilizing effects - immune to roots/knockbacks while active ( via "Ghost"),

"Revitalizers" - passive 1.5 / 3% max health regen every 3 seconds or Exfiltrate has 50/100% chance to make your next Kolto injection Free and instant cast ( see below for CD)

 

QoL

 

Incease range of Exfiltrate to 20meters ( 10 if slowed ) 10 energy cost, 15sec CD

"Advanced Cloaking" in addition to current effects, taking damage reduces the CD on Cloaking screen by 3 seconds, cannot occur more once every 1.5seconds )

 

I like most of this but Scouting is too low in the tree. Would make Operatives even stronger relative to the other healer classes as that can and would be taken by every healer. Internal damage and 100% ArPen are effectively the same thing, as internal damage ignores all armor. 20m is way too far for exfiltrate, we would massively overshoot our targets/roll off ledges/etc fairly often. I do agree with it having a 15s CD, but I think it should still only go 12M (but, always go that 12M, snare or no snare).

 

I don't know if we should get both free Kolto Infusion and the Evasion proc unless Lethality gets both two. Even then your evasion change would be probably be OP. Assuming constant damage and a roll every 15s on the dot, you would have 16s of damage immunity plus 4 free heals a minute. Could probably make do with just the other changes and leaving Evasion as is.

 

I would be satisfied with just AOE DR and 100% evasion proc as is. Your survivability changes would be pretty amazing, especially the CD reduction on vanish.

[Transmet]

My suggestions for PvE dps:

 

-change the pve 4 set from the useless +5 energy it is into: each time corrosive dart critically ticks the cooldown on cloaking screen is reduced by 3 seconds. this allows Hidden Strike to be more than just a one-off ability and can allow for a dps gain overall in the class. (this was mentioned by another player several pages back and is worth noting)

 

-Get RID of Overload Shot. You tried, it didn't work out. Give us a cast to make Hidden Strike a guaranteed crit like Maras have with Force Scream and Snipers et al.

 

Lethality:

-Fatality is now 100% guaranteed to proc off of Shiv, cannot occur more than once every 10 seconds. Currently the Shiv/Fatality lottery is NOT fun to play and removes any sense of skill from timing your 10 second Shivs to coincide with other more energy dependent parts of the rotation such as Cullx3 or an OS.

 

STOP ALLOWING OTHER CLASSES TO EAT THE WEAKENING BLAST STACKS I PUT ON. I don't want snipers dart ticks and hybrid culls eating my stacks. That's MY dps being lost here. The tooltip says 'the Agent' as in, the player that applies WB.

 

Also, fix the Lingering Toxins bug already.

 

Concealment:

Remove the energy cost of Acid Blade. It's bad enough to have to reapply it as often as you do. Buff the damage it delivers over time by 10-20%. 2407 over 6 seconds is too low even with the highest level modifiers. 3k minimum.

 

make this class FUN to play, not a damn lottery in pve.

 

AND TALK TO US, ERIC. DONT JUST MAKE A THREAD AND THEN AFK FOR 2 MONTHS. TALK TO YOUR COMMUNITY BECAUSE THIS IS A PROBLEM.

Thank you

Edited December 10, 2013 by Transmet

[Uber_the_Goober]

I don't know if we should get both free Kolto Infusion and the Evasion proc unless Lethality gets both two. Even then your evasion change would be probably be OP. Assuming constant damage and a roll every 15s on the dot, you would have 16s of damage immunity plus 4 free heals a minute. Could probably make do with just the other changes and leaving Evasion as is.

Only assuming you've got the energy / opportunity to do so, also, the only damage immunity you have is to ranged/melee attacks. Force, AOE, DOTS, even some of the fancier glowbat attacks all still hit through evasion.

I would be satisfied with just AOE DR and 100% evasion proc as is. Your survivability changes would be pretty amazing, especially the CD reduction on vanish.

 

I also like the idea of improving our abilities to evade or have enemies "miss" us, instead of surviving damage through brute force like tanks do. In my book, anything that makes us slipperier is good, because it requires some skill on the part of the player, instead of "Derp I TANK shoot me har har"

[Racter]

Only assuming you've got the energy / opportunity to do so, also, the only damage immunity you have is to ranged/melee attacks. Force, AOE, DOTS, even some of the fancier glowbat attacks all still hit through evasion.

 

 

I also like the idea of improving our abilities to evade or have enemies "miss" us, instead of surviving damage through brute force like tanks do. In my book, anything that makes us slipperier is good, because it requires some skill on the part of the player, instead of "Derp I TANK shoot me har har"

 

You clearly misread his post. He was talking about making evasion basically UR with no health costs.... For 18/60s a minute lol

 

My suggestions for PvE dps:

 

-change the pve 4 set from the useless +5 energy it is into: each time corrosive dart critically ticks the cooldown on cloaking screen is reduced by 3 seconds. this allows Hidden Strike to be more than just a one-off ability and can allow for a dps gain overall in the class. (this was mentioned by another player several pages back and is worth noting)

 

-Get RID of Overload Shot. You tried, it didn't work out. Give us a cast to make Hidden Strike a guaranteed crit like Maras have with Force Scream and Snipers et al.

 

Lethality:

-Fatality is now 100% guaranteed to proc off of Shiv, cannot occur more than once every 10 seconds. Currently the Shiv/Fatality lottery is NOT fun to play and removes any sense of skill from timing your 10 second Shivs to coincide with other more energy dependent parts of the rotation such as Cullx3 or an OS.

 

STOP ALLOWING OTHER CLASSES TO EAT THE WEAKENING BLAST STACKS I PUT ON. I don't want snipers dart ticks and hybrid culls eating my stacks. That's MY dps being lost here. The tooltip says 'the Agent' as in, the player that applies WB.

 

Also, fix the Lingering Toxins bug already.

 

Concealment:

Remove the energy cost of Acid Blade. It's bad enough to have to reapply it as often as you do. Buff the damage it delivers over time by 10-20%. 2407 over 6 seconds is too low even with the highest level modifiers. 3k minimum.

 

make this class FUN to play, not a damn lottery in pve.

 

AND TALK TO US, ERIC. DONT JUST MAKE A THREAD AND THEN AFK FOR 2 MONTHS. TALK TO YOUR COMMUNITY BECAUSE THIS IS A PROBLEM.

Thank you

 

Yeah a tick of a dot critting is definitely a good mechanic for resetting the vanish cd... for lethality. Not so much for concealment. Will not give us autocrit hidden strike, nor do we need it. And 2407? Way to go off the tool tip on torhead lol. In min/maxed Obroan it will be ~3600, not 2407. Not saying that increasing it would be a bad idea but 2407 was low for lvl 50 gear.

[Transmet]

You clearly misread his post. He was talking about making evasion basically UR with no health costs.... For 18/60s a minute lol

 

 

 

Yeah a tick of a dot critting is definitely a good mechanic for resetting the vanish cd... for lethality. Not so much for concealment. Will not give us autocrit hidden strike, nor do we need it. And 2407? Way to go off the tool tip on torhead lol. In min/maxed Obroan it will be ~3600, not 2407. Not saying that increasing it would be a bad idea but 2407 was low for lvl 50 gear.

 

What? Notice the modifier I stipulated? Of course the 4set would help Concealment. Did concealment not use Dart and someone not tell me about it? Min/maxed Obroan? I'm talking about pve.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Transmet

[Shadowhispers]

I like most of this but Scouting is too low in the tree. Would make Operatives even stronger relative to the other healer classes as that can and would be taken by every healer. Internal damage and 100% ArPen are effectively the same thing, as internal damage ignores all armor. 20m is way too far for exfiltrate, we would massively overshoot our targets/roll off ledges/etc fairly often. I do agree with it having a 15s CD, but I think it should still only go 12M (but, always go that 12M, snare or no snare).

 

I don't know if we should get both free Kolto Infusion and the Evasion proc unless Lethality gets both two. Even then your evasion change would be probably be OP. Assuming constant damage and a roll every 15s on the dot, you would have 16s of damage immunity plus 4 free heals a minute. Could probably make do with just the other changes and leaving Evasion as is.

 

I would be satisfied with just AOE DR and 100% evasion proc as is. Your survivability changes would be pretty amazing, especially the CD reduction on vanish.

 

Yeah, i said either internal or 100% coz its basically the same thing, just thinking of both options for which would be easier to impliment. as to the scouting, i thought of having it there so lethality can pick it up, but your right healers would too which is gonna be a problem, so stick it onto shadow op Elite maybe, and sort something for leth,

 

was a little sleepy and 100% immunity is probably abit much, so how about a compromise at 50% force/tech reduction instead

 

the evasion proc? do you mean the "swap of evasive imperative" ? if so that would be tier 1 and easy for leth to pick up, and since leth gets a proc heal on roll ( tho its a **** % chance) they would still get both just chance their proc to 100% too

 

i tried to spread them out so you would have to sacrifice some dps skills/other utility to get them all, and the heal would be a separate 2skill points ( that no-one takes right now)

 

Probably right about the roll distance, was thinking pve there, since 12m is not a great gap closer

[Jorojus]

quoted from another topic;

 

I think they should give operatives and assassins a skill that reduces heals cast by 20%, which would sort of cement them as the classes that cc healers, and it would stack with the marauder debuff to lower healing across the board.

 

Awesome idea for concealment operatives here. Then again, the real good ones will make healers cry so hard. Since they do that already imo.

[wollegol]

2 months and not a word we can safe say that in this game the devs are NOT listening (for you who gets the reference)

[RaptorClown]

2 months and not a word we can safe say that in this game the devs are NOT listening (for you who gets the reference)

 

maybe because they were busy with expansion and now with xmas things?

[wollegol]

maybe because they were busy with expansion and now with xmas things?

 

Yeah, they´ve been busy for over a year regarding the operative dps (and other classes to)

[Caid_Baraka]

Concealment:

 

Change Acid Blade to a DD instead of a DoT and increase damage by 25%. Give it a higher chance to crit also. Concealment shouldn't have any reliance on a DoT leave that to lethality.

Also Acid Blade allows Backstab and/or Hidden Strike (out of stealth) to be used on 30%or lower health targets from any angle. Make it consume 2 Tactical Advantage to use under this condition.

Those two changes give a solid opener and better finisher.

Explosive probe should be usable without needing cover.

 

Survival:

 

Buff Toxic Scan so when target is cleansed they can not be re-Dot'd for 3 seconds.

Evasion works against force attacks also, increase to 5 seconds.

[iRedRIng]

Concealment:

 

Change Acid Blade to a DD instead of a DoT and increase damage by 25%. Give it a higher chance to crit also. Concealment shouldn't have any reliance on a DoT leave that to lethality.

Also Acid Blade allows Backstab and/or Hidden Strike (out of stealth) to be used on 30%or lower health targets from any angle. Make it consume 2 Tactical Advantage to use under this condition.

Those two changes give a solid opener and better finisher.

Explosive probe should be usable without needing cover.

 

Survival:

 

Buff Toxic Scan so when target is cleansed they can not be re-Dot'd for 3 seconds.

Evasion works against force attacks also, increase to 5 seconds.

 

If you make acid blade up front damage, don't think you should increase it's actual damage. The hidden strike and backstab in the front for 2 TA, just no. Using explosive probe in or out of cover would at most be a QoL change since getting into cover to use it takes no time at all so this wouldn't really help op dps.

 

Evasion being like UR is not going to happen. Also this and the dot thing won't fix dps ops. You'll still be super squishy.

[Warpthasm]

I have been playing 55 concealment operative for some time and from that just a couple of ideas came to mind. Reducing cd for Backstab a little and making Flash-bang non-target AOE stun. Also maby making sneak not only to give you speed boost but also higher dodge chance, it makes sense. And Stimboost could also make energy regenerate a bit faster. I dont have problems with energy in pvp now but in pve better energy regeneration can help. And if cd for Backstab is reduced than also means more energy costs. So here are my 2 cents. Edited December 13, 2013 by Warpthasm