Merc changes...!

[oaceen]

 

The changes that are listed in the 2.5 blog are currently all of our planned Class changes for that Game Update. I realize that not all classes or specs received changes. Know that Class changes are something that we will be doing with more frequency moving forward and you should look for more blogs/information such as this when we do.

 

 

The Balance Patch!

 

I just want to make sure I set an expectation that we will never really have something that is "a balance patch."

 

 

OOPS. i suppose my expectations were a bit off. i think it had to do with a few things though.

• a lot of changes that were talked about or hinted at in the answers didn't make it to the 2.5 changes
  
• we didn't get many changes after 2.0, so i thought the current model of balancing was big changes less frequently, so i was sort of expecting all of the possible changes that could have happened in 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, etc. to come all at once
  

 

but saying that there will be more frequent changes is very good in my opinion, and i fully welcome it. so even though a larger list of changes was my expectation with 2.5, i would much rather have short lists of balance changes happening more frequently than those big lists that happen every now and then.

[TUXs]

I will say, if they can live up to having more frequent balance changes then I think it will be a big step in the right direction. Their current cadence for balance changes has been far too low, at around once every 6 months.

 

Pfft...why do you honestly think that would happen NOW? Since 2.0, only two classes have had any meaningful "tweaks"...the pace with which they address "tweaks" is reprehensibly slow. Until they actually STEP in the right direction, they've changed nothing...just lip service.

[RakeshZeal]

 

Mercenary Changes // Other Class Changes

 

The changes that are listed in the 2.5 blog are currently all of our planned Class changes for that Game Update. I realize that not all classes or specs received changes. Know that Class changes are something that we will be doing with more frequency moving forward and you should look for more blogs/information such as this when we do.

 

Thanks everyone,

 

-eric

 

Thank you Eric for quickly replying to what could be considered a very sore subject, I understand that this is simply adjustments as perviously mentioned. Even with such grammar as "BaIance" commonly used regarding these changes.

 

However, I would like to challange and implore You and the Dev Team to incorperate the below suggestion on behest of a very downtrodden advanced class and skill set. Bodyguards as it stands are just not practical however much fun they may be. I believe through long hours of thought and testing that such changes would raise them to an "On-Par" state in the PvP heaIing matrix whilst not imbalancing PvE in any fashion. I would also like to build on my below statement in one more way.

 

Using peacekeeper to shoot an enemy is infact critically unfavorable in Ranked Arena's due to the professional use of coordinated crowd controls, many of which are breakable on damage. Currently a situation where: Two melee is attacking an unguarded merc healer as the tank and melee DPS have seperated to opposing teams healer and ranged dps into LoS just beyond the reach of the healer so the healer decides to proc Peacekeeper from one of the melee attacking him during midshot the sniper on the allied team had flashbanged the melee, the healer trying to use his abilities had just adversly effected his team in a unforgivable manner. Anywho,

 

"I've come to a very simple conclusion, Give mercs multi-target Kolto Shell, and change Peacekeeper/Bodyguard so it procs while healing a friendly target... Its not that hard to change, its not that OP. It suppIiments self healing while still being able to maintain a decent resource pool and minimul healing on a friendly target in high intensity PvP such as ranked arena's. No need to increase anything else or add another escape mecho because all of the above rely on no cast-time. I can say right now with full confidence, Kolto Shell(All Targets) + Kolto Missle + PIus rapid shots on an ally proccing Bodyguard/PeaceKeeper would be just on par with other healing classes escape/heal mechanics, if not still a bit weaker but given a passing grade by the community."

 

Again, Let us see this change within an amicable timeframe, such as 2.5.

 

Thank you for your time and assurence in this matter.

 

~Harbingers

[Flying-Brian]

Hey everyone,

 

I wanted to try to address a few of the issues that you brought up in regards to the blog and the 2.5 changes.

 

Mercenary Changes // Other Class Changes

 

The changes that are listed in the 2.5 blog are currently all of our planned Class changes for that Game Update. I realize that not all classes or specs received changes. Know that Class changes are something that we will be doing with more frequency moving forward and you should look for more blogs/information such as this when we do.

 

I realize there is always frustration if your class does not receive changes (especially buffs) but this is something we will always be working on!

 

Also, don't forget that we will be bringing back the Class Reps shortly after 2.5 goes live. You will certainly notice some of the great suggestions we got out of the Class Rep initiative made it to be changes in 2.5 (especially some of the quality of life stuff!). I know the classes who did not receive changes will be eager to get their feedback to us and so I will be sure to get them in the front of the order (such as Merc/Commando).

 

Thanks everyone,

 

-eric

 

What more feedback do you need for Merc/Commando right now?

 

You were given the feedback from the class and in the response problems with the class were acknowledged by the dev team.

 

After 2.5 all of those issues will still be there.

 

Yet we can't even get a small quality of life adjustment, like bringing back the old 4-piece set bonus for arsenal/gunnery.

[TUXs]

What more feedback do you need for Merc/Commando right now?

 

You were given the feedback from the class and in the response problems with the class were acknowledged by the dev team.

 

After 2.5 all of those issues will still be there.

 

Yet we can't even get a small quality of life adjustment, like bringing back the old 4-piece set bonus for arsenal/gunnery.

 

Agreed...it's frustrating as hell that THIS was our reply...unreal...

[Primarch_PWnD]

I'm a little torn on this one.

 

In terms of balance, it's ALWAYS better take a scalpel instead of a sledgehammer. It's also ALWAYS better to change as few things as possible at one time so that you can see what effects each change more clearly and with less variables.

 

But I think there are some serious issues that really needed to be addressed with this batch of changes.

 

There's nothing in there that's going to change the most frustrating aspect of PvP: pound the Sorc or Merc first. The problem is that tactic works really really well. Too well. I mean, I've seen Sorc players get heckled. That's not good. And now that their DoTs are non-removable, it's even more reason to take them down first.

 

Then again, I may just have a perception problem and need to heal to full in order to make them pay......maybe

 

(PS: I don't play a Sorc in PvP. I play against Sorcs, and they need survivability. Badly.)

Edited October 17, 2013 by Primarch_PWnD

[Andryah]

Exactly.

 

Monthly small balance tweaks are immensely better than large sweeping changes once a year.

 

/Agree.

 

I've never seen anything good come of out of major MMO patches that are devoted strictly to "balance changes". What you get is bad replaced with bad. Sweeping changes to balance all at once are a disaster waiting to happen.

 

That said... they need to be making modest incremental adjustments every major patch IMO to class abilities to address known/acknowledged issues.

Edited October 17, 2013 by Andryah

[limenutpen]

The changes that are listed in the 2.5 blog are currently all of our planned Class changes for that Game Update. I realize that not all classes or specs received changes. Know that Class changes are something that we will be doing with more frequency moving forward and you should look for more blogs/information such as this when we do.

This! You said the same at around 2.0 but so far changes to classes have been really slow or up to nothing since then. We had 5 patches since then, and how much have Classes and their Advanced changes come since then = next to nothing.

I know its hard for you guys and all this and that but I hope (more so important after 2.4 with Arenas) this time those typed words mean something for real....

[ToMyMa]

Hey everyone,

 

I wanted to try to address a few of the issues that you brought up in regards to the blog and the 2.5 changes.

 

Mercenary Changes // Other Class Changes

 

The changes that are listed in the 2.5 blog are currently all of our planned Class changes for that Game Update. I realize that not all classes or specs received changes. Know that Class changes are something that we will be doing with more frequency moving forward and you should look for more blogs/information such as this when we do.

 

I realize there is always frustration if your class does not receive changes (especially buffs) but this is something we will always be working on!

 

The Balance Patch!

 

I just want to make sure I set an expectation that we will never really have something that is "a balance patch." That is to say, the player expectation of a balance patch is one where almost every class and every spec receives changes. You simply wont see that volume of changes outside of something like an expansion. You will certainly see Class changes coming in some Game Updates. However they will not be on the scale I think a balance patch might imply.

 

Also, don't forget that we will be bringing back the Class Reps shortly after 2.5 goes live. You will certainly notice some of the great suggestions we got out of the Class Rep initiative made it to be changes in 2.5 (especially some of the quality of life stuff!). I know the classes who did not receive changes will be eager to get their feedback to us and so I will be sure to get them in the front of the order (such as Merc/Commando).

 

Thanks everyone,

 

-eric

 

Well, gunnery/Arsenal is nice, but what made assault/pyro was, just like madness, we had all of our dots cleansed. You've 'fixed' madness, but now the last ranged dot spec will be the worst one, due to cleanses. So all in all, we got commandoed (meaning no needed fix for us for another few months).

[Uniclonus]

Also, don't forget that we will be bringing back the Class Reps shortly after 2.5 goes live. You will certainly notice some of the great suggestions we got out of the Class Rep initiative made it to be changes in 2.5 (especially some of the quality of life stuff!). I know the classes who did not receive changes will be eager to get their feedback to us and so I will be sure to get them in the front of the order (such as Merc/Commando).

So no changes but we get to be among the first for the Class Rep thing after the patch. Yipee! Do they not see how colossally pointless that is? Nothing new is going to come from that. They're going to hear the exact same things they've been hearing for a long time, just louder and with more anger because we're tired of being overlooked.

[RakeshZeal]

(PS: I don't play a Sorc in PvP. I play against Sorcs, and they need survivability. Badly)

 

Not to get way a little astray on the topic, but I feel I need to discuss this as well and will works Bodyguards into it late in the post.

 

The biggest issue I have with Sorc healers at the moment is not so their survivibility but their longevity, one needs stamina to adequately perform any task at hand. My mainsquad has up until now rolled a Sorc as our healer in arena's and the biggest issue being while the sorc sits consuming life struggling for every little bit of force he can muster sitting consistantly on the redline an operative opponent can casually sit with near if not max resources. This issue is not player based(He could be considered the top sorc on the server and we always roll the very best of the DPS) as one might argue and overall it pains me as his tank to watch our OGH slip lower and lower as he sits on 50 force.

 

Now I wont say if that is a problem with Sorcs or Operatives however I will say in 1,000,000 years we would not dream of ever taking a Mercenary Healer into serious G-ranked. That is an issue to me as Bodyguard was my first class and perhaps my most loved, and if even 80% of the Top G-Ranked community agrees this is a much larger issue then Bioware is lead to believe and deserves if not an instant fix something within such timeframe as reasonable by the community which so far it has not been.

[Raansu]

Hey everyone,

 

I wanted to try to address a few of the issues that you brought up in regards to the blog and the 2.5 changes.

 

Mercenary Changes // Other Class Changes

 

The changes that are listed in the 2.5 blog are currently all of our planned Class changes for that Game Update. I realize that not all classes or specs received changes. Know that Class changes are something that we will be doing with more frequency moving forward and you should look for more blogs/information such as this when we do.

 

I realize there is always frustration if your class does not receive changes (especially buffs) but this is something we will always be working on!

 

The Balance Patch!

 

I just want to make sure I set an expectation that we will never really have something that is "a balance patch." That is to say, the player expectation of a balance patch is one where almost every class and every spec receives changes. You simply wont see that volume of changes outside of something like an expansion. You will certainly see Class changes coming in some Game Updates. However they will not be on the scale I think a balance patch might imply.

 

Also, don't forget that we will be bringing back the Class Reps shortly after 2.5 goes live. You will certainly notice some of the great suggestions we got out of the Class Rep initiative made it to be changes in 2.5 (especially some of the quality of life stuff!). I know the classes who did not receive changes will be eager to get their feedback to us and so I will be sure to get them in the front of the order (such as Merc/Commando).

 

Thanks everyone,

 

-eric

 

That's great and all and I'm glad to see that changes will be more frequent...But changes should be prioritized. Most of the changes being listed are....terrible to say the least and have ignored some of the more severe problems occurring in arenas atm.

[Prisoner]

Also, don't forget that we will be bringing back the Class Reps shortly after 2.5 goes live. You will certainly notice some of the great suggestions we got out of the Class Rep initiative made it to be changes in 2.5 (especially some of the quality of life stuff!). I know the classes who did not receive changes will be eager to get their feedback to us and so I will be sure to get them in the front of the order (such as Merc/Commando).

 

Thanks everyone,

 

-eric

 

Players have been talking about commando/merc healing not being up to par with the other two classes ever since the 1.2 patch nerf, which was what? Like a year and a half ago? How much more feedback do you need, ffs? Doesn't the fact that pretty much everyone rerolled other healing classes for pvp tell you anything?

 

Bloody hell. I am never going to get to dust my commando off, am I? *facepalm*

[g_land]

Any thoughts on the interrupt changes and crit changes that were mentioned in the answers by the devs. Its not necessarily balance but...

[MaximusRex]

Hey everyone,

 

I wanted to try to address a few of the issues that you brought up in regards to the blog and the 2.5 changes.

 

Mercenary Changes // Other Class Changes

 

The changes that are listed in the 2.5 blog are currently all of our planned Class changes for that Game Update. I realize that not all classes or specs received changes. Know that Class changes are something that we will be doing with more frequency moving forward and you should look for more blogs/information such as this when we do.

 

I realize there is always frustration if your class does not receive changes (especially buffs) but this is something we will always be working on!

 

The Balance Patch!

 

I just want to make sure I set an expectation that we will never really have something that is "a balance patch." That is to say, the player expectation of a balance patch is one where almost every class and every spec receives changes. You simply wont see that volume of changes outside of something like an expansion. You will certainly see Class changes coming in some Game Updates. However they will not be on the scale I think a balance patch might imply.

 

Also, don't forget that we will be bringing back the Class Reps shortly after 2.5 goes live. You will certainly notice some of the great suggestions we got out of the Class Rep initiative made it to be changes in 2.5 (especially some of the quality of life stuff!). I know the classes who did not receive changes will be eager to get their feedback to us and so I will be sure to get them in the front of the order (such as Merc/Commando).

 

Thanks everyone,

 

-eric

 

Uneven changes based on uneven feedback is likely to make balance worse, not better, and is also likely to throw the signal to noise ratio out of whack when you are looking at feedback in the future.

 

There is a reason when they balance your wheels on your car they don't do one wheel every 8+ weeks. While of course classes/specs are more complex, and would always require regular fine tuning, trying to hit problem areas piecemeal it going to make the balance worse.

[Paokzu]

I know we need some adjusting at least for heat management but I'm kind of glad that I didn't see mercs on this list. It's been my experience that in BW's ongoing quest for overbalancing it usually means I lose something I enjoy using or it's changed into a less usefull form. Not all change is welcome.

[AMightyKnight]

So energy management stays broken and we are falling even further behind. Not to mention still no energy percentages for Commandos.

I'm speachless.

[Jaing]

My favorite characters are my healing merc and DPS powertech.

 

/whimper...

 

At this point I have all three imperial healing ACs at 55. My mercenary is in verpine with arkanian armorings (4-piece set bonus), Sorc is black market with 2-piece set bonus, operative is just black market, no set bonus.

 

Of the three, I most like way mercenary healing works. It jsut seems like merc healing is the hard-mode of healing. Resource management is tougher and overall power (even in a better tier of gear) doesn't match up to my sorcerer or operative.

 

I hadn't had my operative specced as a healer since lvl 40 over 6 months ago. I switched him to heals last week to get a spot in a raid and just to see what it was like after 2.0. By the third boss I think I had the rotation down and it seemed easier than healing on my Merc. I still don't care for way operatives heal, but it's easier.

Edited October 17, 2013 by Jaing

[gorstram]

The combat devs indicated that Sniper/Slingers and Mara/Sents were overtuned damage wise, and that was the reason that they were parsing outside of the 5% hybrid threshold. I didn't see anywhere on those class changes where their damage was going to be "normalized" or where the hybrid DPS folks would be buffed to bring them more in line within at least 5% of their "pure" counterparts.

 

I play a gunnery commando and arsenal merc, and this change does absolutely NOTHING to make me more viable during raid content.

 

What happened to the "normalization" plan?

[Hxxr]

The changes that are listed in the 2.5 blog are currently all of our planned Class changes for that Game Update. I realize that not all classes or specs received changes.

I realize there is always frustration if your class does not receive changes (especially buffs) but this is something we will always be working on!

That is to say, the player expectation of a balance patch is one where almost every class and every spec receives changes.

 

What is frustrating is no actual balancing since 2.0 and the disappointment you sowed after (finally) admitting to pure DPS being overtuned.

 

Assassin Tank fixes in 2.5 are long overdue and appreciated, but tanks are not the only role that alre badly balanced.

As you already acknowledged in another post damage dealers and especially healers are pushed into certain classes and the messiah that was 2.5 to many now just exploded for many raiding players.

 

Where is the fix to pushback for Mercs and Sorcerers? The general adjustments for Marauder & Sniper superior DPS and insane Orbital Strike efficiency? When I look at DfA and OS and compare the two, knowing that they should fulfill the same purpose for the two different ACs I have to wonder whether the Dev team either all play Agents or not at all.

Bloodthirst stacking was fixed, which is good and at the same time the go-to spec of the prime melee class got buffed! I can't even palm my face as hard as I'd like to right now and I'm certain I'm not the only one.

 

Operative healers in both PvE and even more so PvP are still going to dominate in terms of pretty much everything, be it throughput, resource management or mobility.

 

All of these problems are very obvious and not new. Balance wise nothing has changed since 2.0 and five patches later one of many issues is adressed, which is a terrible record by industry standards.

Edited October 17, 2013 by Hxxr

[DkSharktooth]

Ok this is just my opinion but here goes.

 

Next time you guys put out a class change blog at least acknowledge the fact that class A, D and E arent being changed YET. You guys miss opportunities to foster any sort of goodwill in this community all the time. Instead it just feel like certain classes are being ignored.

 

I am not saying people need to be coddled but how hard would it be to say Merc changes are in the works but we wont have them ready by 2.5. Coming soon though.

 

Just my 2 cr

 

Apparently this is much much harder to do. They would rather get our hopes up by saying "balance patch", then crush them. Bioware developers are true sith when it comes to the merc class. This is complete and utter baloney.

Edited October 17, 2013 by DkSharktooth

[DkSharktooth]

Exactly.

 

Monthly small balance tweaks are immensely better than large sweeping changes once a year.

 

Scold, you completely made me mad with this reply. You main an op healer so you don't feel the pain. Mercs have got shafted for so long that this was the exact time to do balance changes for them, this was supposed to be the inferred patch where BW finally gives the worst advanced classes their much much much needed attention. You would't have said the same BS if you were maining a merc / commando healer. This is just......"omg it's just uhhhuhhhhh" - DailyPvP

[ToMyMa]

Scold, you completely made me mad with this reply. You main an op healer so you don't feel the pain. Mercs have got shafted for so long that this was the exact time to do balance changes for them, this was supposed to be the inferred patch where BW finally gives the worst advanced classes their much much much needed attention. You would't have said the same BS if you were maining a merc / commando healer. This is just......"omg it's just uhhhuhhhhh" - DailyPvP

 

Hey! Don't bring DailyPvP into this

 

On a more serious note though, the only buff commandoes recieved after 1.2 was in 2.0 (1.4 wasn't what I would call a buff, more like a needed fix, but only half done). We lack in the utility (EN simply doesn't cut it), we still have massive interrupt problems (both specs) one spec has dot cleaning problems (you just fixed madness sorcs, but yet you leave assault commando out. Really?). And commando heals... Is well, broken beyond redemption.

Edited October 17, 2013 by ToMyMa

[Prisoner]

I think they've just flat out given up on this class - especially on the healing tree - and have no idea how to bring it in line with other classes. I mean, what else explains the joke that commando healers have been for the last year and a half? They should just be honest with their players about it instead of cryptic statements about how they're looking into it because after dithering this long they look like complete twits.

 

I am so glad that I rerolled months and months ago. What a cockup.

Edited October 17, 2013 by Prisoner

[ArchangelLBC]

Hey everyone,

 

I wanted to try to address a few of the issues that you brought up in regards to the blog and the 2.5 changes.

 

Mercenary Changes // Other Class Changes

 

The changes that are listed in the 2.5 blog are currently all of our planned Class changes for that Game Update. I realize that not all classes or specs received changes. Know that Class changes are something that we will be doing with more frequency moving forward and you should look for more blogs/information such as this when we do.

 

I realize there is always frustration if your class does not receive changes (especially buffs) but this is something we will always be working on!

 

The Balance Patch!

 

I just want to make sure I set an expectation that we will never really have something that is "a balance patch." That is to say, the player expectation of a balance patch is one where almost every class and every spec receives changes. You simply wont see that volume of changes outside of something like an expansion. You will certainly see Class changes coming in some Game Updates. However they will not be on the scale I think a balance patch might imply.

 

Also, don't forget that we will be bringing back the Class Reps shortly after 2.5 goes live. You will certainly notice some of the great suggestions we got out of the Class Rep initiative made it to be changes in 2.5 (especially some of the quality of life stuff!). I know the classes who did not receive changes will be eager to get their feedback to us and so I will be sure to get them in the front of the order (such as Merc/Commando).

 

Thanks everyone,

 

-eric

 

Sorry Eric, but no. Words are wind. You want us to believe you're magically gonna start doing more frequent updates? Start doing them. I have zero reason to believe anything you guys have to say on class balance. Put up or shut up. The combat team has had almost two years to do this. They've said time and again they'll do smaller changes at more frequent intervals. All of it lies.

 

Most insulting of all is that, after suspending the class rep system after essentially 1 round of questions because you didn't want redundancy in the questions, your sop to classes still waiting for balance are told "no worries, you guys will get first crack at asking questions next go around". So which is it? Did you not want redundant questions or is the class rep system nothing more than a sop to a belligerent community whenever you're afraid they'll get rowdy.

 

I can tell you right now what the commando issues will be. Ammo management, utility, and the general fail of the healing spec. What are you guys actually gonna do about it? Don't know? Figure it out. Now.

Edited October 17, 2013 by ArchangelLBC