2nd Digital Expansion

[Paokzu]

I intend to be rebuilding Norrath by then but wtg BW it does look very cool.

[Glzmo]

Starting to think SWG didn't go under cos of the fact the game was bad but due to the toxicity of the population that migrated here and is now working its venomous "magic" on another game.

SWG went under because EA didn't allow SOE to continue it and didn't want to pick it up themselves when they launched TOR with their exclusive deal. Simple as that.

With the two games being so different, they could have easily co-existed and perhaps even had cross-promotions between the two (one combined subscription for both, etc.).

 

That said, BiowarEA could still learn a thing or two from SWG and incorporate the great, revolutionary features SWG had that TOR is currently so lackluster at into TOR to create the perfect Star Wars MMORPG. The best things about TOR combined with the best things about SWG would certainly be a winner.

 

But back on topic. While having off the rails space PVP is nice, I do hope we'll at least get some co-operative multiplayer off-rails PVE down the line and possibly even some free exploration of space sectors.

Edited October 9, 2013 by Glzmo

[PavelH]

Just one question (and apologies if there is an answer in the 30 pages):

 

will the space movement be modern or realistic?

 

by "modern" i mean the ship always moves forward, sort of like an airplane

by "realistic" i mean the ship has its own momentum, and the engines modify the momentum

 

the difference is that the "realistic" approach allows you to strafe in space (or go backwards, or have ship oriented independently on current movement), which would make space combat really fun and challenging, while the "modern" is well suited for brain-dead children, who don't understand the physics behind it

[drfirewater]

The preview page says collect rewards for ground game ... I am praying you mean for ground game P VP not PVE. Its bad enough that a lot of the better looking armors come from P VP and that often players are forced in to PVP in daily areas because of unflagged PVEers dropping aoes on groups of mobs when a PVP player or group of players intentionally getting people flagged on a PVE server who have no intention of playing PVP.

 

I am glad people got the space combat they wanted ... but when are the space combat that the rest of us liked getting the rewards bumped up. I love the current space used to grind them as much as dailies but now sitting on over 500 coms on each of my space ready toons waiting for new crafting boxes to come out but they never do.

 

Will this expansion include an upgraded fleet coms vendor? and can you as a PVE player earn these coms with regular space combat or are there going to be different coms for this and thus meaning you have given up on space combat the way some of us like it?

[drfirewater]

Just one question (and apologies if there is an answer in the 30 pages):

 

will the space movement be modern or realistic?

 

by "modern" i mean the ship always moves forward, sort of like an airplane

by "realistic" i mean the ship has its own momentum, and the engines modify the momentum

 

the difference is that the "realistic" approach allows you to strafe in space (or go backwards, or have ship oriented independently on current movement), which would make space combat really fun and challenging, while the "modern" is well suited for brain-dead children, who don't understand the physics behind it

 

I don't really understand what you mean by realistic and then saying flying backwards. I don't know if you understand the physics behind flight but I cant think of any time in all my years that I have seen a F-16 fly backwards ... and even if it could it wouldn't be able to do that in space. Air breaks yes ... classic dog fight tactic straight out of top gear ... but flying backwards is not realistic especially not in space.

 

In space you have no gravity to defy so backwards movement is impossible without front mounted thrusters and on top of that it would be more like reverse parking because you couldn't have thrusters as powerful on the front as you would the back or it would heavily limit your ability to control and the speed of your craft.

 

So realisticly there should be no way to move Backwards at all .. simply air breaks for someone directly on your tail and rolls and backflips to change direction quickly to end up behind or simply out of sight or better yet guiding them into the fire of an ally. That is what dog fights are all about.

[drfirewater]

But back on topic. While having off the rails space PVP is nice, I do hope we'll at least get some co-operative multiplayer off-rails PVE down the line and possibly even some free exploration of space sectors.

 

I have this in my prayers every night that it will NEVER HAPPEN. Space exploration does nothing but take players out of the Queues for PVP and PVE FPs and ops. The biggest problem this game has right now is not enough people wanting to PVE together in pugs. with the removal of classic ops from GF you cant even EV or KP or EC for the fun of it in groups unless your under level 55. which lasts about a week.

 

the biggest problem this game has is giving people something to do TOGETHER when they are not progression raiding with guild. Space exploration would be a little WORSE then datacron farming. Please never put it in this game and rather put old raids into GF under classic raids and let lvl 50s and 55s party together. The gear in those raids is pointless anyway .. let people play for fun cause that is what MMOs are suppost to be.

[Velgar]

With the off rails space expansion being pvp only, it will be a non-event for me. I have zero interest in pvp. If they add pve at some point I would be quite interested but as it is I will totally ignore this expansion.

[canofbutter]

I have this in my prayers every night that it will NEVER HAPPEN. Space exploration does nothing but take players out of the Queues for PVP and PVE FPs and ops. The biggest problem this game has right now is not enough people wanting to PVE together in pugs. with the removal of classic ops from GF you cant even EV or KP or EC for the fun of it in groups unless your under level 55. which lasts about a week.

 

the biggest problem this game has is giving people something to do TOGETHER when they are not progression raiding with guild. Space exploration would be a little WORSE then datacron farming. Please never put it in this game and rather put old raids into GF under classic raids and let lvl 50s and 55s party together. The gear in those raids is pointless anyway .. let people play for fun cause that is what MMOs are suppost to be.

 

Interesting view of things... I actually really liked datacrons and solo exploration (seeker droid stuff, lore objects, etc): they give me something to do while I'm waiting for the group finder queue to pop (and for OPs as a DPS that can be a really, really long time). I don't see why doing space PVE or exploring space off the rails means one couldn't be in the group finder queue. It would be a nice change of pace from grinding dailies while you wait.

 

I hope they add more unique types of PVE that can be done without a group so I can do something other than make laps around the fleet for 2 hours waiting for the queue to pop. Exploring space to find lore objects, resources, or whatever would really be a more fun way to spend that time. Heck - it's a better option than having heroics as part of the dailies: being in a group doing a heroic means you aren't in the group finder queue for a FP or OP - at least with this suggestion, you could be.

[Nethgilne]

I think the original reference to "realistic" space flight was something akin to playing a game of old school asteroids. That is, the direction the vehicle travels can be independent of the direction it's facing. If that's what is meant by "realistic", then no. I don't think that's going to be the control scheme BW is going for

 

Sure it would be novel for a little while but I imagine that it'll be super frustrating after a little while as moving in any direction will feel like traveling across a field of ice. Slippery and unresponsive.

 

The F-16 analogy would normally be moot in the case of space flight, as there is no need to maintain a constant speed to generate lift or produce drag. A space craft could generate some velocity, cut its thrusters and flip 180 degrees from it's original heading to essentially "fly" backwards. Although I'd just call it hurtling in space *** end forward.

 

 

I don't really understand what you mean by realistic and then saying flying backwards. I don't know if you understand the physics behind flight but I cant think of any time in all my years that I have seen a F-16 fly backwards ... and even if it could it wouldn't be able to do that in space. Air breaks yes ... classic dog fight tactic straight out of top gear ... but flying backwards is not realistic especially not in space.

 

In space you have no gravity to defy so backwards movement is impossible without front mounted thrusters and on top of that it would be more like reverse parking because you couldn't have thrusters as powerful on the front as you would the back or it would heavily limit your ability to control and the speed of your craft.

 

So realisticly there should be no way to move Backwards at all .. simply air breaks for someone directly on your tail and rolls and backflips to change direction quickly to end up behind or simply out of sight or better yet guiding them into the fire of an ally. That is what dog fights are all about.

[Creepage]

Very nice!

Will being a Hyperspace Legend prior to the release grant any benefit u think?

[Andryah]

Space exploration does nothing but take players out of the Queues for PVP and PVE FPs and ops.

 

In which case.. make it real old school.... IMO...

 

....let them go out in space, get hopelessly lost, have their hyperdrive breakdown and have their ship droid /space all the food and water supplies just for the giggles.

 

Their dusty bones will be found by some other random scrub explorer years later.. who will then get hopeless lost as well, have their hyperdrive breakdown, and have their ship droid /space all the food and water supplies just for giggles.

 

[Andryah]

With the off rails space expansion being pvp only, it will be a non-event for me. I have zero interest in pvp. If they add pve at some point I would be quite interested but as it is I will totally ignore this expansion.

 

Yet... I bet space PvP is the realm of multi-boxers.... with formation fying and focus fire.

 

"My droids can gank your droids" MMO multi-box style.

[aeterno]

I think the original reference to "realistic" space flight was something akin to playing a game of old school asteroids. That is, the direction the vehicle travels can be independent of the direction it's facing. If that's what is meant by "realistic", then no. I don't think that's going to be the control scheme BW is going for

 

Sure it would be novel for a little while but I imagine that it'll be super frustrating after a little while as moving in any direction will feel like traveling across a field of ice. Slippery and unresponsive.

 

The F-16 analogy would normally be moot in the case of space flight, as there is no need to maintain a constant speed to generate lift or produce drag. A space craft could generate some velocity, cut its thrusters and flip 180 degrees from it's original heading to essentially "fly" backwards. Although I'd just call it hurtling in space *** end forward.

 

This is where BW got very lucky with the IP.

 

It's a real "must do" these days for space flight games to put in complex inertia models and stuff like that...

 

But tbh, that's not really how star fighters behave in the SW universe is it? All the movies, all the games, it's always been like they're flying planes in space. They don't even have to model in maneuvering thrusters cos I don't think there's ever been a ship with them in SW universe. They just magically TURN on their axis lol.

 

It's hard to argue that having it wouldn't be a positive thing but it wouldn't really be starwars in a way would it? I'm sure thats the reasoning they'll use to justify what others will see as "lack of effort".

 

Personally I'm literary on the fence. I'd like to be able to do things I'm able to do in Star conflict with my ship but then again, I can't deny luke/anakin never flew anything like that in any of the movies scenes.

Edited October 9, 2013 by aeterno

[Andryah]

It takes an incredible amount of talent to take good news, positive subscription and earnings numbers and turn it into a convincing argument that the game is now bleeding subs and is doomed to fail.

 

Not so much talent as dedication to a cause.

[bionamaster]

Not so much talent as dedication to a cause.

 

I think its a mix of both talent and dedication.

Edited October 9, 2013 by bionamaster

[Technohic]

Meh. People are upset for a few different reasons.

 

I can see where someone who PvEs and never PvPs and was waiting for this "super secret space project" hoping that it would be off the rails flight, would be upset to see just what they were excited for, only it is PvP only. Still; that doesn't mean that it will forever be only PvP, but I feel you. I understand what its like to say; wait for a big PvP patch only to find that it adds more PvP than PvE. I really do get it.

 

Then for those who PvP, there is concern for lack of attention to the ground PvP game in it taking attention away from that more or, after being told a separate arena Q from 8v8 was a no go due to splitting people up causing longer wait times; here we are with another form of PvP which will do just that, or; people will be quitting to get the form of PvP they want which is really no better.

 

To that, I do not believe the team developing this space PvP is the same that has been working on (lol?) our current PvP and class balancing. As far as the Q times; there has to come a point where you cannot keep "not" doing something because population doesn't support it. as you then wind up not offering much to have that big population. It's like the chicken or the egg. Which came first? Not having the population to support it, or not having it caused us to not have the population? I'd argue that having choices draws a much broader crowd and allows the chance to have a higher population.

 

That said. It probably isn't perfect, but they have to do something to stay fresh and relevant beyond just reskinning some armors and doing the next tier of gear for PvE and PvP. At least now, they will be giving us really a new style of play that some may like more than all the other things in game, or maybe they just like something different for a change. Either way, it's better than doing nothing.

[MillionsKNives]

Just one question (and apologies if there is an answer in the 30 pages):

 

will the space movement be modern or realistic?

 

by "modern" i mean the ship always moves forward, sort of like an airplane

by "realistic" i mean the ship has its own momentum, and the engines modify the momentum

 

the difference is that the "realistic" approach allows you to strafe in space (or go backwards, or have ship oriented independently on current movement), which would make space combat really fun and challenging, while the "modern" is well suited for brain-dead children, who don't understand the physics behind it

 

Have you ever seen a Star Wars movie?

[Kenlonis]

It will be free, that is correct!

 

Nice Bioware!!! looks awesome i loved the game already but you may have hit it out of the park with this

[thomasbaxter]

Space PVP? all i can say is

 

ABOUT DAMN TIME...HELL YEH!!!! WOOOOOHOOOOOO!!!!! TAKE THAT STO

[EranofArcadia]

I suppose that even if they don't have immediate plans for PvE off-the-rails, it shouldn't be too difficult to adapt based on what they have so far.

 

And for anyone who said that we "all" want this game to be more like SWG, here are the 2 things I know about SWG:

 

1. It was a Star Wars-themed MMO. ToR can't do much to be more like it in that regard.

2. It no longer exists. I would really rather that ToR not be more like it in THAT regard.

[dscount]

Not excited about the PVP variation of this, but at least it's OFF the Rails like we asked.

 

Hopefully the gearing isn't the same lopsided PVP approach that rewards premade teams with more gear in the long run. (Recent changes to "Complete PVP XX a week" has helped decrease that in the future from XX Wins)

 

See you in the Stars!

[DarthOvertone]

Space PvP? F*****G FINALLY! AHHHHH!!!!!

 

Finally! Some real Star Wars!

 

Should be a blast!

[eclipce]

Im thrilled to see this, finally some proper Star in Star Wars

 

Im extatic to see the game play, no million abilities and lame rotations from the looks of it and from the data mined info we have seen so far- can only hope now that they change the combat/game mechanics and class system up on par with this, seeing as the engine can handle such and what zenimax and bethesda have done to their TESO/HERO engine with dynamic and situational combat and movement.

 

Personally i have that one big concern tho.. with the current warzones and arenas, ops, hms, sm etc. and now space pvp and i reckon pve with this down the road is that.. Q-time, we really, REALLY need cross-server q's now.

 

Oh and we need new starship housing, new ships, exterior and interior designs- i pay good dollars for that.

[Itkovian]

Ayup, I'm very excited about this. 12v12 is even more than I had hoped so this is great news all around.

 

I'm sure it'll get even more exciting as we get closer to release and more is revealed. But already we can tell the following:

 

- Different types of ships, as there are "role unlocks".

- Leveling progression.

- Cosmetics

- Multiple game modes.

- And the video itself shows some interesting stuff... like the very last scene looks like the player reversed his engines and let the pursuer move ahead, then used some sort of missions. Special abilities?

 

Anyway, tons of information, and more is to come I'm sure. I'm psyched.

[Projawa]

This and no.

 

We all know it's a skeleton crew and the game is losing subs at a fast rate. There's just nothing to hold anyone to this, now if it was like SWG and had those open worlds, player housing, pvp anywhere and a character that 'you' get to build? Well I think we all know this game would have been huge.

 

I'm more interested in SWTOR doing more of what it does best (story rpg in a WoW-inspired MMO framework) than trying to relive aspects of SWG. I'd play EVE or upcoming stuff like Wildstar if I wanted sandbox player housing features etc. I'd rather SWTOR continue to build on its competitive advantage rather than rehash or try to be a jack of all trades.

Edited October 9, 2013 by Projawa