2nd Digital Expansion

[KgLlama]

Please tell me where you see healing in those trailers, no all current information, data mine included point at a straight space dogfight, not whatever your thinking

 

And *** is STO?

 

I never said it was in the trailers, its straight dog-fighting, which LOTS of games have done PvE variants of. Star Trek Online has robust PvE combat with the trinity. Its not impossible or even hard. Acting like it isnt is silly.

[Zoom_VI]

I never said it was in the trailers, its straight dog-fighting, which LOTS of games have done PvE variants of. Star Trek Online has robust PvE combat with the trinity. Its not impossible or even hard. Acting like it isnt is silly.

 

So you basically are expect STO with SW skin?

Firstly that kind of play was never asked for or even really associate with SWTOR, people want to dogfight not shipfight with phasers.

 

And to expect them to do that is silly, STO is a weird psydo RTS combat with some character stuff thrown in, its not even remotely close to dogfighting, and based off of the stuff I googled, it looks more like face target and shoot and not even remotely using anything beyond the X and Z axis

 

Again this is going to be dogfighting not multiplayer RTS with capital ships, and as pointed out in my first post, creating a dogfighting AI skilled and adaptable enough to challenge a group players is out there in theoretically-but-not-anytime-soon relm. AI can't do it, particularly not with all those asteroids, random debris, space stations, and captal ships to avoid at the same time.

 

PvP dogfighting will be at least remotely challenging, PvE will be lose all its challenge after about a week

[morfius]

I'm still boggling over how people are trying to apply traditional "PvP content" rules versus "PvE" i.e people asking for heroic free-flight operations

 

Firstly there will never be space operations in the traditional since. Why?

1) there are no tanks, dps, healers in dogfighting

2) there would be no boss mechanics as people envision them

3) A.I I mean come'on you can't script free flight dogfighting AI like you can a ops boss

 

On subject of AI

There are two types, both are easily doable and both wouldn't really work

1) Ai follow invisible guides (splines for those familiar to battlefront 2 modding) AI jump between "splines" to follow objectives

2) AI sees position of a target (player) and there are algorithms to guide AI to target ship

 

Of course option 2 is the obvious, but you can't do that here.

asteroids ships debris - All are evident in most star wars space games. Programming a AI to follow a player while dodging obstacles is near impossible.. An obvious solution would be to surround objects with invisible danger zones that an AI would be programmed to leave. But even then since the AI is following a player it could approach these at any given orientation, velocity, and angle, meaning that it would be all too easy to trick scores of AI to ram themselves into a ship.

 

Also not to mention group PvE free-flight PvE would be a joke, it would be nearly impossible to program a AI (obsticles or not) that could challenge a group. Even the most basic of dogfighting strategies would completely fool an AI. And if its follow the spline model, it would be an even bigger joke.

 

All this is correct but still don't answer the question how newcomer after a month will be able to catch with first players - only way to even learn differences between current space mini game and free flight PvP will be to volunteer as frag for some sessions just to learn controls, weapons, handling and so on?

One map with even mega dumb AI will at least give you basic over game play as level 1 - 10 of ground game do (PvP don't start at level one but 11).

Do we have short see here or PvP community wish for easy frags (to not use other word) strike again?

 

It not need to be fun for more than a week, it need to have same reason that most games don't supply PvPers with 55 levels characters in basic gear, to have time to learn game play.

 

STO have no place here, space combats in ST are naval ones, SW combat is based on air combat.

STO combat is not fully 3D - it has limits of angles, no rolls and speed is much slower than any space SW game... very good system if you do a ST game but no use in SW one.

And AI of STO ships is same or worst than SWTOR ground mobs.

Edited October 23, 2013 by morfius

[AlienEyeTX]

I never said it was in the trailers, its straight dog-fighting, which LOTS of games have done PvE variants of. Star Trek Online has robust PvE combat with the trinity. Its not impossible or even hard. Acting like it isnt is silly.

 

Well, I'm glad we finally found the authority on the matter.

 

Make it so!

[Rafaman]

Seems to be a lot of staff response on this thread. I wonder if anybody can provide an answer for this:

 

Is it worth running a lot of Space missions before this launches to hone my skills? I've been doing that a bit for the last week because I'm really looking forward to this new Expansion, but I wonder if the system will be so different since it's free flight that running the current space missions for practice won't really be that helpful.

 

Well, assuming it they open the PTS, you can go in there and get a first hand look. I do my share of testing on the PTS but for this... I'll be looking to get a feel of what it is more then testing content.

[Darevsool]

I'm still boggling over how people are trying to apply traditional "PvP content" rules versus "PvE" i.e people asking for heroic free-flight operations

 

Firstly there will never be space operations in the traditional since. Why?

1) there are no tanks, dps, healers in dogfighting

2) there would be no boss mechanics as people envision them

3) A.I I mean come'on you can't script free flight dogfighting AI like you can a ops boss

 

On subject of AI

There are two types, both are easily doable and both wouldn't really work

1) Ai follow invisible guides (splines for those familiar to battlefront 2 modding) AI jump between "splines" to follow objectives

2) AI sees position of a target (player) and there are algorithms to guide AI to target ship

 

Of course option 2 is the obvious, but you can't do that here.

asteroids ships debris - All are evident in most star wars space games. Programming a AI to follow a player while dodging obstacles is near impossible.. An obvious solution would be to surround objects with invisible danger zones that an AI would be programmed to leave. But even then since the AI is following a player it could approach these at any given orientation, velocity, and angle, meaning that it would be all too easy to trick scores of AI to ram themselves into a ship.

 

Also not to mention group PvE free-flight PvE would be a joke, it would be nearly impossible to program a AI (obsticles or not) that could challenge a group. Even the most basic of dogfighting strategies would completely fool an AI. And if its follow the spline model, it would be an even bigger joke.

 

 

On the subject of AI, for years SWG space (JTL) suffered from boring/bad AI with the npc enemy ships. However, in the last six months of the game one of the developers was finally able to 'crack the code' and amped up the enemy npc starship AI to where it was almost at player pvp level. NPC ships became nearly impossible to hit at the highest levels. Once they engaged, there was no flight pattern that they followed.

 

It CAN be done.

[MishraArtificer]

On the subject of AI, for years SWG space (JTL) suffered from boring/bad AI with the npc enemy ships. However, in the last six months of the game one of the developers was finally able to 'crack the code' and amped up the enemy npc starship AI to where it was almost at player pvp level. NPC ships became nearly impossible to hit at the highest levels. Once they engaged, there was no flight pattern that they followed.

 

It CAN be done.

How much do you want to bet the SWG devs just said "To hell with it" and started piloting the ships themselves...

 

Back on topic, I still haven't gotten an answer to my question: Will Galactic Starfighter matches grant reputation to the Republic Hyperspace Armada/Imperial 5th Mobile Battalion? (I think that's what it's called...)

[LanceCorporalDan]

There will not be a new planet and there is no increase to the level cap with this expansion. We really wanted to focus this expansion around space off of rails where you get to fight your friends (and enemies!)

 

To that point, there will not be any Space based PvE content with the Digital Expansion. It is only going to be PvP.

 

-eric

 

Finally something for PvP'ers! thanks!

[idnewton]

How much do you want to bet the SWG devs just said "To hell with it" and started piloting the ships themselves...

 

Back on topic, I still haven't gotten an answer to my question: Will Galactic Starfighter matches grant reputation to the Republic Hyperspace Armada/Imperial 5th Mobile Battalion? (I think that's what it's called...)

 

You haven't gotten an answer to your question because no one has the answer to your question. One would think it would be pretty obvious how limited the details of GS are. I think I speak for the rest of the forumers in here, though, when I say that the last thing anyone in this thread wants is somebody being a snob about un-answerable questions. Just chill. We'll get the answers when they give them to us. Keep an eye on the dev tracker, and watch for more Developer Blogs about GS.

[MishraArtificer]

You haven't gotten an answer to your question because no one has the answer to your question. One would think it would be pretty obvious how limited the details of GS are. I think I speak for the rest of the forumers in here, though, when I say that the last thing anyone in this thread wants is somebody being a snob about un-answerable questions. Just chill. We'll get the answers when they give them to us. Keep an eye on the dev tracker, and watch for more Developer Blogs about GS.

...said question was pointed at EricMusco, but that's cool, too, I guess...

 

My apologies if I came off as snobbish.

[necrogirl-]

I don't consider this to be an expansion, it's not nearly big enough, update 2.4 was bigger than this, i'm still waiting for the second expansion.

[MandFlurry]

I don't consider this to be an expansion, it's not nearly big enough, update 2.4 was bigger than this, i'm still waiting for the second expansion.

 

Nobody is ever satisfied, no matter what good or bad, ppl just aren't satisfied. Even if the Expansion was a JtL, ppl wouldn't be satisfied that's their wouldn't be a Pvp probably.

 

This is 1 reason why most ppl stay away from the Forums like me, because ppl will complain no matter what good things happen, or what good stuff may be added. If bad stuff happens they just say it's another Bioware/EA thing that makes this game bad. But when Bioware fixes, or adds something, I sure don't hear enough Praise. Ppl think when 1 Profession is almost fixed, ppl complain about their Profession needing to be fixed when the Devs say they are doing that right now.

 

No, no one will be satisfied, even me sometimes, like not liking throwing out the 8v8 ranking system. But their are too many ppl crying about things that are being fixed on TS. Most ppl complain for the sake of just complaining.

Edited October 28, 2013 by MandFlurry

[MandFlurry]

Finally something for PvP'ers! thanks!

 

 

I think 1 Big thing PvE'ers have to remember, is the Fact that Space is never done. Space can always be added upon, and most of us know that Bioware/EA will add PvE to Space because they have to, for every1 to be happy.

 

Space can't be cut in half, it can only added upon.

[Vandicus]

I don't consider this to be an expansion, it's not nearly big enough, update 2.4 was bigger than this, i'm still waiting for the second expansion.

 

Its free, its not 3.0, it might be fun for you, so what does it matter if they call it an expansion?

[Zoom_VI]

Its free, its not 3.0, it might be fun for you, so what does it matter if they call it an expansion?

 

Because it gives him ammunition for another "BW is bad" QQ

[idnewton]

Because it gives him ammunition for another "BW is bad" QQ

 

It's a troll post. No one says they're still waiting for the 'real' thing to come out without the intent of trolling.

 

If I went into general discussion and talked smack about the Cartel Market and RotCH and class stories and said I was still waiting for a real Star Wars MMO to come out, there'd be pages and pages of rage. It's a pretty standard method.