Is BioWare all about profit now?

[spellforge]

For background information, please read this first, an article on Joystiq featuring an interview of Blizzard's VP of Game Design, Rob Pardo:

 

http://wow.joystiq.com/2009/11/13/blizzard-arenas-were-a-mistake/

 

"Arena has been a huge headache for Blizzard and players alike. He goes on to say that if he had the choice, he'd either go back to WoW's beginnings and change the fundamentals of class balance, or, barring that, would nix the decision to add Arenas during the development of the Burning Crusade expansion. "

 

Even knowing all these, and the blatantly obvious FACT that Star Wars The Old Republic was never designed from the ground up as a pvp-oriented game, much more so than MMOs like WoW and Guild Wars 2, BioWare still has to introduce this WoW-esque arena in a bid to attract more new players to SWTOR. The ludicrousness of BioWare's decision in this case is further accentuated by the fact that Blizzard is a company that puts extreme emphasis on the quality of its products, always reassuring its users that the game will be released "when it's ready" while on the other hand, BioWare had trouble running 4 man in a SINGLE INSTANCE 1 year before the release of SWTOR!

 

I have so much more to say, but at this point, I think it's just too obvious. The BioWare that once was, has ceased to be...

 

Perhaps Greg and Muzyka really left at the right time... The BioWare that I once loved is no more.

[Kahndraga]

Have you tried the arenas? They are actually fun. Me and some buddies went 5 out of 7 last night. Went with 4 DPS; mando, slinger and 2 sents. 2 members of the group didnt even have a lot of pvp gear. I dont understand why people have to complain about everything BW does. There are real issues out there. Please stop making QQ threads and play the game. Or if you have to complain find something legit to QQ about. Otherwise, suck it up buttercup.

 

Edit: just an FYI BW is a company, guess what companies do, or try to anyway, make money. so an answer to your question is yes they are trying to make money.

[spellforge]

Have you tried the arenas? They are actually fun. Me and some buddies went 5 out of 7 last night. Went with 4 DPS; mando, slinger and 2 sents. 2 members of the group didnt even have a lot of pvp gear. I dont understand why people have to complain about everything BW does. There are real issues out there. Please stop making QQ threads and play the game. Or if you have to complain find something legit to QQ about. Otherwise, suck it up buttercup.

 

Edit: just an FYI BW is a company, guess what companies do, or try to anyway, make money. so an answer to your question is yes they are trying to make money.

 

Your words exude wisdom. It is precisely players like you that BioWare has introduced Arenas. Oh, and please do not throw the word legit around when u are not a developer himself. Mr. Rob Pardo said it loud and clear: "Arenas were the single biggest mistake in WoW's history."

 

If you have received some level of education, then I believe you can distinguish between opinion and fact. My opinions were based on fact, while your opinions were, merely based on your opinions.

 

Please learn to make a convincing argument before trying. It only shows you are not listening to others and yourself. Regardless, this post is not exactly for players like you.

 

: This thread is directed at BioWare. :

 

So if you have nothing constructive to say other than your own flawed opinions, then please, keep playing your arenas. No one is robbing you of your playtime in swtor, only yourself.

[Vember]

Have you tried the arenas?

 

Yes.

 

They are actually fun.

 

Agree to disagree.

[psandak]

To answer your title question: like EVERY OTHER BUSINESS IN THE WORLD, YES Bioware wants to make a profit and make as much profit as possible.

 

Funny thing is, back in my days playing WoW, I avoided Arena like the plague. I could hold my own in BGs but I was by no means a great PvP player. The elitist attitude, the complete separation of arena and BGs, and the ranking system, made that aspect of the game completely undesirable to me.

 

Queuing solo last night, I got into two unranked arena matches and won both of them (in the first match my team lost the first round and won the next two because we communicated and understood what had to be done. And in the second, I proffered the same strategy and we won in straight rounds). And nearly 2/3 of my gear is PvE (I have five PvP pieces three partisan and two conqueror). This only encourages me to keep participating in Arena. So, obviously BioWare has done something right if they can get a casual PvPer interested in ranked PvP where Blizzard utterly failed.

[spellforge]

To answer your title question: like EVERY OTHER BUSINESS IN THE WORLD, YES Bioware wants to make a profit and make as much profit as possible.

 

Funny thing is, back in my days playing WoW, I avoided Arena like the plague. I could hold my own in BGs but I was by no means a great PvP player. The elitist attitude, the complete separation of arena and BGs, and the ranking system, made that aspect of the game completely undesirable to me.

 

Queuing solo last night, I got into two unranked arena matches and won both of them (in the first match my team lost the first round and won the next two because we communicated and understood what had to be done. And in the second, I proffered the same strategy and we won in straight rounds). And nearly 2/3 of my gear is PvE (I have five PvP pieces three partisan and two conqueror). This only encourages me to keep participating in Arena. So, obviously BioWare has done something right if they can get a casual PvPer interested in ranked PvP where Blizzard utterly failed.

 

Clearly another one whose words demonstrate great wisdom. Sorry for the sarcasm but apparently you are not familiar with statistics and the concept of sample size. I'll leave you to figure that out.

 

In any case, it does not matter whether players such as yourself view or reply to this thread. Guess what does.

[vennian]

Have you tried the arenas? They are actually fun. .

 

They are fun when you SPECIFICALLY queue for them in RANKED. The problem is arenas in unranked.

[Kahndraga]

Your words exude wisdom. It is precisely players like you that BioWare has introduced Arenas. Oh, and please do not throw the word legit around when u are not a developer himself. Mr. Rob Pardo said it loud and clear: "Arenas were the single biggest mistake in WoW's history."

 

If you have received some level of education, then I believe you can distinguish between opinion and fact. My opinions were based on fact, while your opinions were, merely based on your opinions.

 

Please learn to make a convincing argument before trying. It only shows you are not listening to others and yourself. Regardless, this post is not exactly for players like you.

 

: This thread is directed at BioWare. :

 

So if you have nothing constructive to say other than your own flawed opinions, then please, keep playing your arenas. No one is robbing you of your playtime in swtor, only yourself.

 

How exactly are your opinions based in fact? What you are going off of is another game completely. Lets look at Star Wars shall we? Hmmmm, Imperial and Republic both factions at war. So naturally there will be conflict. There for PvP will ensue in an MMO. You have two types of players in an MMO. One being the PVEr, another the PvPer.

I do both and enjoy both. Now we have a faster queue for PvP. If you do not PvP that is fine that is how you choose to spend your 15 bucks. This is not WoW, so when you reference WoW in respects to this game you are nullifying your point before you even start. That was their mistake not BW's. If you want to get into WoW's mistake, it was the 2v2 arenas that they messed up. then the class imbalance reared its ugly head. 4v4 is perfect as long as BW stays with 4v4 it will be fine.

[Kahndraga]

They are fun when you SPECIFICALLY queue for them in RANKED. The problem is arenas in unranked.

 

Yeah they do need to make a separate queue for unranked arenas.

[spellforge]

How exactly are your opinions based in fact? What you are going off of is another game completely. Lets look at Star Wars shall we? Hmmmm, Imperial and Republic both factions at war. So naturally there will be conflict. There for PvP will ensue in an MMO. You have two types of players in an MMO. One being the PVEr, another the PvPer.

I do both and enjoy both. Now we have a faster queue for PvP. If you do not PvP that is fine that is how you choose to spend your 15 bucks. This is not WoW, so when you reference WoW in respects to this game you are nullifying your point before you even start. That was their mistake not BW's. If you want to get into WoW's mistake, it was the 2v2 arenas that they messed up. then the class imbalance reared its ugly head. 4v4 is perfect as long as BW stays with 4v4 it will be fine.

 

The grammar is telling. I'm sorry I unwittingly insulted your intelligence earlier. I guess I'm wrong, indeed.

[Kahndraga]

The grammar is telling. I'm sorry I unwittingly insulted your intelligence earlier. I guess I'm wrong, indeed.

 

Now you are avoiding the topic and insulting me. My argument is won. Thank you and please do not post your trash on the forums any more. Have a good day. Thank you for calling. Goodbye.

[spellforge]

Now you are avoiding the topic and insulting me. My argument is won. Thank you and please do not post your trash on the forums any more. Have a good day. Thank you for calling. Goodbye.

 

Like the saying goes: "Ignorance is a bliss. "

[thomasbaxter]

I quite like the arenas tbh when i didn't think I would but I do think there needs to be some sort of objective. The class balances become waaaaaaay too obvious when its just a fight to the death, The team without a healer are already in trouble.

[cashogy_reborn]

Bioware is a business, I think they have been all about profit all along?

[APCrol]

C'mon, do u think if we ask a question to Bioware employee about WoW he would not say exactly the same?)

[Zoom_VI]

Clearly another one whose words demonstrate great wisdom. Sorry for the sarcasm but apparently you are not familiar with statistics and the concept of sample size. I'll leave you to figure that out.

 

In any case, it does not matter whether players such as yourself view or reply to this thread. Guess what does.

 

Arenas my be from wow but WoWs arenas where under different queue systems, with different ranking systems, also WoWs classes where balanced in entirely different manners than swtors.(wow would have CC specs or utility support specs, swtor spreads these more evenly across all specs)

China has a government that runs the country. America has a government that runs the country, but the two are entirely different.

[NeoIshamael]

For background information, please read this first, an article on Joystiq featuring an interview of Blizzard's VP of Game Design, Rob Pardo:

 

http://wow.joystiq.com/2009/11/13/blizzard-arenas-were-a-mistake/

 

"Arena has been a huge headache for Blizzard and players alike. He goes on to say that if he had the choice, he'd either go back to WoW's beginnings and change the fundamentals of class balance, or, barring that, would nix the decision to add Arenas during the development of the Burning Crusade expansion. "

 

Even knowing all these, and the blatantly obvious FACT that Star Wars The Old Republic was never designed from the ground up as a pvp-oriented game, much more so than MMOs like WoW and Guild Wars 2, BioWare still has to introduce this WoW-esque arena in a bid to attract more new players to SWTOR. The ludicrousness of BioWare's decision in this case is further accentuated by the fact that Blizzard is a company that puts extreme emphasis on the quality of its products, always reassuring its users that the game will be released "when it's ready" while on the other hand, BioWare had trouble running 4 man in a SINGLE INSTANCE 1 year before the release of SWTOR!

 

I have so much more to say, but at this point, I think it's just too obvious. The BioWare that once was, has ceased to be...

 

Perhaps Greg and Muzyka really left at the right time... The BioWare that I once loved is no more.

 

For all your venom in subsequent replies, your initial post lacks any logical basis. Your only supporting fact is an article written in 2009. In fact, the "flow" of your argument is in utter disarray. I suggest attending a few lectures on logical reasoning or at the very least watch a few YouTube videos.

[ImpactHound]

I'm pretty sure the underlying purpose of linking the old article is just how much better Blizzard does business publicly with its customers. They take feedback seriously, they stand their ground with reasons, and they make changes when they know they're wrong(Real Money AH in Diablo.) Without even comparing games, Blizzard handles itself a million times better than BioWare. I think we'd all like to see them respond and act a little differently with their customers.

[NeoIshamael]

I'm pretty sure the underlying purpose of linking the old article is just how much better Blizzard does business publicly with its customers. They take feedback seriously, they stand their ground with reasons, and they make changes when they know they're wrong(Real Money AH in Diablo.) Without even comparing games, Blizzard handles itself a million times better than BioWare. I think we'd all like to see them respond and act a little differently with their customers.

 

I agree with you on the fact that Blizzard has the perception of being more transparent. However, I am reminded of the Square article on FFXIV ARR where Yoshi P. stated that he believes firms like Blizzard and Square are able to handle things differently because they are privately owned. I wonder what the game would look like if the same conditions applied to BW/EA.

[glocklB]

: This thread is directed at BioWare. :

 

You should have chosen another forum then

[spellforge]

For all your venom in subsequent replies, your initial post lacks any logical basis. Your only supporting fact is an article written in 2009. In fact, the "flow" of your argument is in utter disarray. I suggest attending a few lectures on logical reasoning or at the very least watch a few YouTube videos.

 

"An article written in 2009". The power of facts to convince does not decay with age. Ever attended forensic science lectures? Apparently not. A suspect can be incriminated with a single piece of evidence dated 100 years ago. It also seems that u're not acquainted with legal systems. Your very human right is protected, at this moment of speaking, by your local laws enacted decades ago. U have just revealed your own lack of education with that statement about the date of an article. Wonder which university u graduated from. An amusing individual who seeks his own insults, when none has been directed at him to begin with. Your intentions? Peculiar, indeed.

 

No, it is perfectly organized, I am afraid to inform you that it is simply beyond u, and no, it's so blatantly obvious u are less educated than you claim to be that I don't even wish to waste my time holding your hands through the logic that you are so fixated upon. Alas, I guess I will have to perform a little charity in this case:

 

1) SWTOR is less pvp-oriented during development than WoW and Guild Wars 2.

2) The system foundations of SWTOR do not take into considerations PVP balance, esp. in regards to 1v1, 2v2, or 4v4 type arenas.

3) James Ohlen admitted during GDC that SWTOR was not only rushed but the entire game design was affected because of issues that the team was never equipped to handle.

4) Blizzard made explicit statements during press release that their "games" will be released "when it's[they] are ready". Direct quote, mind you.

5) SWTOR was not. It was released when it was not ready.

6) Arenas was "the single biggest mistake in WoW's history", and that's coming from one of the most talented PVP and game developers in the world. Ever heard of Battle.net?

7) SWTOR doesn't even have a competent enough team to handle PVP and they released Arenas without even collecting mere metrics [fact], let alone perform control experiments [aside from training dummys] before releasing such a radical game system change/update.

 

Point.

 

Go do some reading on swtorhub and swtorstrategies and other sites. The pvp veterans there long talked abt the issues that Arenas will bring way before the update.

 

Lastly, try not to embarrass urself by being too presumptuous. You simply did not get the "flow" because you did not have all the facts. Like I said, this thread was not directed at players like you. It was directed at developers in the know, hence, "ignorance is a bliss" earlier.

 

Mind your own business and you will not get embarrassed.

 

Oh, and for the record, the opening post was not even trying to making an argument of any sort. If you could not see it, it was more of a personal opinion, that was based on facts, as I have specifically mentioned. Guess you do not read as well.

 

P.S. Oh and FYI, I am friendly to people who do not antagonize me with unfriendly gestures or words such as "suck it up buttercup". Did my opening post insult anyone? Why are you, then, insulting others [watching YouTube videos, you could think of a better insult, really]? Perhaps do a little self-reflection and try to see the logic, even if it is somewhat mentally challenging for you. Again, like I said, I simply love to reciprocate unprovoked insults, not exactly because I'm insulted but because the individual that is insulting has nothing else better to do and I feel an obligation to educate him/her. And yes, we could go on this forever if you are going to insist on your unprovoked insults being justified, etc. [and yes, I am intentionally using a conjunction at the beginning of a sentence for rhetorical effect].

[spellforge]

Arenas my be from wow but WoWs arenas where under different queue systems, with different ranking systems, also WoWs classes where balanced in entirely different manners than swtors.(wow would have CC specs or utility support specs, swtor spreads these more evenly across all specs)

China has a government that runs the country. America has a government that runs the country, but the two are entirely different.

 

Not that I find this pointless argument worthy of my time but please study basic game design. WoW, Blade & Soul, Tera, Guild Wars and all other competitive MMOs are unique in their own way, but any PVP system, regardless of its form, all shares similarity in structure, and like I said, I do not want to delve into such boring topics.

[manchusabre]

The sad thing is that customer service is getting worse and worse. People are so used to terrible customer service that they have no problem dealing with what's going on with the game.

[SiXXXX]

Spellforge, you are a very bitter, pathetic person. It is apparent that no matter what anybody says your narcissism will get the best of you. Insulting others because of grammar and spelling? This is a forum for a video game not an essay contest. I suggest applying KY jelly to your behind because your head is so far up there that it won't be easy to get out. And your vocabulary doesn't impress anybody. Bioware may not be what it once was, but that is EA's fault not Bioware. The game is still fun, and so are the arena's. Maybe you should try something out before blasting it? The game needs a lot of improvements but instead of sampling the new content you quote Blizzard and failures in WoW. Constructive criticism > butt hurt forum whining.

[spellforge]

Spellforge, you are a very bitter, pathetic person. It is apparent that no matter what anybody says your narcissism will get the best of you. Insulting others because of grammar and spelling? This is a forum for a video game not an essay contest. I suggest applying KY jelly to your behind because your head is so far up there that it won't be easy to get out. And your vocabulary doesn't impress anybody. Bioware may not be what it once was, but that is EA's fault not Bioware. The game is still fun, and so are the arena's. Maybe you should try something out before blasting it? The game needs a lot of improvements but instead of sampling the new content you quote Blizzard and failures in WoW. Constructive criticism > butt hurt forum whining.

 

"The game is stil fun, and so are the arena's." Another one bites the dust. [sorry if you can't catch it.] And sadly no, I'm living a happy, fruitful and worthwhile life, way more so than an individual that sees others as "bitter, pathetic". Study psychology and you will understand why and see that this is not uncommon. For this, I do pity you. You probably live in a community that does not welcome criticisms and informed opinions. Funny, I thought America is a free country. Guess it's because the government is no longer running huh, so anarchy has taken over then? And no, narcissism is the precise reason you people have gotten those opinions of yours. I suppose even that is a bit challenging for you, and yes, we could go on this forever as well if you do not admit you like to see things with a tainted view.

 

I will say this only once: Present an argument with valid facts that does not base itself on insults, and I will respond likewise. You try to insult someone without provocation [important], then expect them to respond in kind. Unfortunately, you did not do that, no one provoked you but your sole purpose was to insult. Hence, a little education for you.

 

P.S. I'm valor rank 85, btw, and that's only playing occasionally over several months, since my main focus is on other more competitive MMOs and arcade-style titles. Oh, and of course, before you even try, do not bring up the misconception of an individual not possessing "great wisdom" = an insult.