Please switch the engine now before its too late..

[mmjarec]

Conjecture and more conjecture, with a little bit of assumption sprinkled on top.

 

Yeah so what? The stock market is built on it. You are talking what is good short term for the business im talking what is good for THE GAME. Call it conjecture or whatever but its a fact that if they upgraded engines it would orolong its lifespan. Since you seem to be all knowing about biowares business why dont you just start calling the shots. Oh wait its a mmo. If you run it like a business you wont have one to run. Mmos are very unique. An engine is an investment

[chuixupu]

 

Other games habe done it so its not impossible they wont know till they try.

 

Do, or do not. There is no try.

 

This is business, not a high school science fair project. It costs money up front, EA has a dedicated finance/ business intelligence staff who calculate how much money a project will require and whether it fits within the budget.

 

Call it conjecture or whatever but its a fact that if they upgraded engines it would orolong its lifespan.

 

You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

[MillionsKNives]

Yeah so what? The stock market is built on it. You are talking what is good short term for the business im talking what is good for THE GAME. Call it conjecture or whatever but its a fact that if they upgraded engines it would orolong its lifespan. Since you seem to be all knowing about biowares business why dont you just start calling the shots. Oh wait its a mmo. If you run it like a business you wont have one to run. Mmos are very unique. An engine is an investment

 

The difference is that good investors actually have information to back up their investments, not just random information pulled out of their a**.

[Andryah]

If you run it like a business you wont have one to run.

 

On the contrary.. if you don't run it like a business.. you won't have one to run. Period. End of discussion on that part.

 

Mmos are very unique.

 

Pointless point.. is pointless.

 

An engine is an investment

 

Correct. An investment made early on, because it is so intimately wired into the MMO as to be one with the MMO.

 

Some things are prohibitively expensive for a business to flush and replace. In fact many things are.. almost anything that is a material capital investment in support of a business.... and where MMOs are concerned, the underlying engine is just such an investment. You adjust and modify to improve... not roll the dice with a scorched earth approach.

 

Tell you what.. you think you know so much and are so good at this MMO business intelligence thing.. go make your own MMO and then lure us to come play it. Walk your talk. But the engine better not suck.. or you will never live it down.

[mmjarec]

On the contrary.. if you don't run it like a business.. you won't have one to run. Period. End of discussion on that part.

 

 

 

Pointless point.. is pointless.

 

 

 

Correct. An investment made early on, because it is so intimately wired into the MMO as to be one with the MMO.

 

Some things are prohibitively expensive for a business to flush and replace. In fact many things are.. almost anything that is a material capital investment in support of a business.... and where MMOs are concerned, the underlying engine is just such an investment. You adjust and modify to improve... not roll the dice with a scorched earth approach.

 

Tell you what.. you think you know so much and are so good at this MMO business intelligence thing.. go make your own MMO and then lure us to come play it. Walk your talk. But the engine better not suck.. or you will never live it down.

 

I just play them i never claimed to make them. Like i said i just wat whats best for the game. I dont care about their business and neither do they obviously or they wouldnt have ran off 500k people. You cannot run it like a regular business because it isnt one. You think its cost prohibitive but ea has deep pockets and you dont even know jow much it would cost or how much money they are willing to throw at it

[Andryah]

You cannot run it like a regular business because it isnt one. You think its cost prohibitive but ea has deep pockets and you dont even know jow much it would cost or how much money they are willing to throw at it

 

Nonsense.

 

Everything in a business is ROI driven.. even the toilet paper in the company bathrooms. No company is too big or too deep pockets to ignore ROI.

 

I just play them i never claimed to make them.

 

Fair enough.

 

Then stop pretending you know more then the devs do about game engine design, much less game engine replacement.

[spectreclees]

First off, it is too late. Like it or not, we're stuck with the engine at this stage, from what I understand. It would be too difficult and costly to change it out, and no amount of interns could possibly change that. The graphics aren't top notch. However, not all games need good graphics. They just need to be good enough to be somewhat lifelike, and SWTOR does that well enough.

 

The issue with the engine is not how it looks. It's about how it operates and performs, which by popular belief could be a lot better than it is. Of course, it runs good with certain hardware, like computers from 6 years ago from what I gather from some or brand new computers from others. The issue is hard to pinpoint what causes problems people have.

 

I just want the engine to be optimized better. I don't claim to know what it takes to do that. But I know it is possible and the work that I have seen thus far from reports and from my own experience seems to be very minimal thus far almost 2 years into the game.

[mmjarec]

Nonsense.

 

Everything in a business is ROI driven.. even the toilet paper in the company bathrooms. No company is too big or too deep pockets to ignore ROI.

 

 

 

Fair enough.

 

Then stop pretending you know more then the devs do about game engine design, much less game engine replacement.

 

I never claimed i knew more than the devs i stated a new engine would make the game better and that they can afford it. Obviously roi didnt mean jack to this mmo since it ran in the red most of the time. You may know business but you dont know mmo business its a whole different model

[Andryah]

I never claimed i knew more than the devs i stated a new engine would make the game better and that they can afford it. Obviously roi didnt mean jack to this mmo since it ran in the red most of the time. You may know business but you dont know mmo business its a whole different model

 

Given the very real commercial risks of pulling the current engine and replacing it with a new one... NO.. a new engine would not make the game better. In fact, in all likelihood it would permanently end the game as a commercially viable business.

 

You don't like the engine. I get it. I'm not overly fond of it myself. But at least I understand the absurdity of demanding it be pulled and replaced. I'll live with the current engine. Because if they try to replace it.. this game is dead on arrival. The only possible way it could be done would be to put together an extremely large project to replace it and doing so would touch and force change on virtually every other aspect of the game. It would take years to complete such a project. It's a mindless and pointless idea. I not only know business.. I know very large technical projects that involve software and hardware. I've run them as a PM. You are barking into the desert here.

[mmjarec]

Given the very real commercial risks of pulling the current engine and replacing it with a new one... NO.. a new engine would not make the game better. In fact, in all likelihood it would permanently end the game as a commercially viable business.

 

You don't like the engine. I get it. I'm not overly fond of it myself. But at least I understand the absurdity of demanding it be pulled and replaced. I'll live with the current engine. Because if they try to replace it.. this game is dead on arrival. The only possible way it could be done would be to put together an extremely large project to replace it and doing so would touch and force change on virtually every other aspect of the game. It would take years to complete such a project. It's a mindless and pointless idea. I not only know business.. I know very large technical projects that involve software and hardware. I've run them as a PM. You are barking into the desert here.

 

Ok youve made your point we obviously wont agree. I guess i dodnt clarify im not talking about business repurcussions im talking stricly about technologically and gameplay wise. Ya you admit it could be done but isnt feasible sure it would be a pain and might fail but to me id rather try it and have a chance at success than watch it slowly die anyway. If the upgrade kills it so be it it is just slowly dying the way it is now. At least the other option has potential to drag it out pf the abyss. Id rather gamble on an upgrade than stay mired in the past with an outdated engine.

[Arkerus]

Ok youve made your point we obviously wont agree. I guess i dodnt clarify im not talking about business repurcussions im talking stricly about technologically and gameplay wise. Ya you admit it could be done but isnt feasible sure it would be a pain and might fail but to me id rather try it and have a chance at success than watch it slowly die anyway. If the upgrade kills it so be it it is just slowly dying the way it is now. At least the other option has potential to drag it out pf the abyss. Id rather gamble on an upgrade than stay mired in the past with an outdated engine.

 

..."rather try it" is a terrible waste of money. In business, you don't gamble when the payout is next to nothing.

 

There is standard decision making and financial analysis that goes into this. The numbers don't work for replacing the engine. Its not "rather just try it". Its foolish to even think about it. There is no scenario where the financial benefits outweigh the cost. Even if there IS...it has such a minor chance of happening no one on Earth would take that risk.

[Drake_Hound]

Ok youve made your point we obviously wont agree. I guess i dodnt clarify im not talking about business repurcussions im talking stricly about technologically and gameplay wise. Ya you admit it could be done but isnt feasible sure it would be a pain and might fail but to me id rather try it and have a chance at success than watch it slowly die anyway. If the upgrade kills it so be it it is just slowly dying the way it is now. At least the other option has potential to drag it out pf the abyss. Id rather gamble on an upgrade than stay mired in the past with an outdated engine.

 

you cannot gamble on a update cause it impossible , what is already very difficult is hero engine official support.

see this engine is a modified tweaked engine , so isn't even compatible with hero engine tm , they should had have support before they started to tweak it , maybe they are getting support . I can not say without more information .

 

But even with compatibliity of the codes , it is already a huge risk factor to import to standard hero engine .

At this point replacing the engine is simply not doable !

it means making a whole new MMO and the cost associated with it , why don't people get that ?

That was the problem that creeped up probaly in year 5-6 , when it was too late to replace the engine .

Let alone start from scratch , so sadly this is impossible what you are requesting , simply impossible .

It is asking them to make a new MMO !

[Arkerus]

you cannot gamble on a update cause it impossible , what is already very difficult is hero engine official support.

see this engine is a modified tweaked engine , so isn't even compatible with hero engine tm , they should had have support before they started to tweak it , maybe they are getting support . I can not say without more information .

 

But even with compatibliity of the codes , it is already a huge risk factor to import to standard hero engine .

At this point replacing the engine is simply not doable !

it means making a whole new MMO and the cost associated with it , why don't people get that ?

That was the problem that creeped up probaly in year 5-6 , when it was too late to replace the engine .

Let alone start from scratch , so sadly this is impossible what you are requesting , simply impossible .

It is asking them to make a new MMO !

 

Interns man...interns.

[Drake_Hound]

Interns man...interns.

 

And how much are you worth put it on table !

Anything else? They can update the engine like they have been but not replace it !

Or you saying you have more information as stock holder about the technical details

[mmjarec]

you cannot gamble on a update cause it impossible , what is already very difficult is hero engine official support.

see this engine is a modified tweaked engine , so isn't even compatible with hero engine tm , they should had have support before they started to tweak it , maybe they are getting support . I can not say without more information .

 

But even with compatibliity of the codes , it is already a huge risk factor to import to standard hero engine .

At this point replacing the engine is simply not doable !

it means making a whole new MMO and the cost associated with it , why don't people get that ?

That was the problem that creeped up probaly in year 5-6 , when it was too late to replace the engine .

Let alone start from scratch , so sadly this is impossible what you are requesting , simply impossible .

It is asking them to make a new MMO !

 

I have as much proof that it is do able as you do that it isnt

[AshlaBoga]

I have as much proof that it is do able as you do that it isnt

 

Yes, we have proof that it can be done in 12 months with the game offline.

The real question is, can they do it in 12 months WITHOUT taking the game offline?

 

P.S: I hope the answer is yes.

[Drake_Hound]

I have as much proof that it is do able as you do that it isnt

 

 

Well good everything is doable , offcourse we can fly to the moon and back if somebody puts down the money .

Can we fly to jupiter and return even if somebody is willing to put down the money ?

 

So what you are saying is doable , is that the scripts are compatible with the new engine .

We are not even talking about Graphics code , databases , total new characters .

 

So lets start simple then scripts import , since you have proof it is doable .

That there will be no bugs .

 

Come on use the net ... Ask around , seek proof ! You say it not me live up to your words !

I only use logic .

[Swalsugmass]

At the end of the day, When the new movies come out and people rush to get more of SW and come across this game or come back to this game they will find that nothing has changed. But that is still a long way off. Disney have recently thrown money at certain movies that have blow up in there face so anything can happen haha

[mmjarec]

At the end of the day, When the new movies come out and people rush to get more of SW and come across this game or come back to this game they will find that nothing has changed. But that is still a long way off. Disney have recently thrown money at certain movies that have blow up in there face so anything can happen haha

 

The game currently the way it is wont last until the movies come out

[AshlaBoga]

The game currently the way it is wont last until the movies come out

 

Yeah it will. Ep 7 is 2015. Even you have to admit that EA will want to keep milking the people with gambling addictions.

[Unascended]

What I don't understand is why they didn't just create their own engine. Yes I understand this involves a lot more work (I have a degree in Computer Science), but it's not as difficult as many people believe, especially when you have an entire team of developers working on it. This guy was able to make a crude version of Nar Shadaa by himself after all.

 

I know a lot of people hate when you compare the two, but in this case it makes sense... World of Warcraft has had it's own game engine since day one. I'm not saying that there haven't been a metric **** ton of bugs (anyone who played the first 6 months of WoW release...), however when the engine is your own you have a LOT more flexibility. Bugs are easier to squash when you are working with your own engine. (Point and case? A bug that's been here since day one that we all know about: after stabbing a quest item with your lightsaber, you run around with the traditional run with your lightsaber similar to how you would run if your lightsaber was sheathed.)

 

WoW started out VERY small. They were not expecting it to grow into the massive game it is today, which is why there were so many server issues and crashes the first year the game was up. The fact that Bioware didn't start with their own engine is an indication that the company is either under very poor management; or they don't care enough to give us an A+ Star Wars MMO.

 

That being said (not sure if it was mentioned as I don't have the time to read through 12 pages of comments), but if you look at the YouTube videos comments, he said that camera angles were very difficult to achieve with that engine (I personally have never worked with that engine so I wouldn't know). What many of you are failing to grasp from the comments I've read, is that you don't understand how a gaming engine works. It is MUCH easier to create a world and record a fly through than it is to actually have multiple people in the area and moving around in the way we understand MMOs to work. Note that I'm not defending Bioware, I have said from day one that using the Hero Engine was a very stupid move on their part.

 

Unascended

[mmjarec]

I dont care how it works all i care about is that it works...

[chuixupu]

What I don't understand is why they didn't just create their own engine.

 

Who knows. To cut corners, perhaps. Maybe they planned on making their own engine at one point but just got so far behind on time and budget. It doesn't seem to be like they really believe the engine they chose was the very best option.

 

However, as it's been said a few times by even the devs themselves, they're virtually not really even using HeroEngine anymore. They've modified the heck out of it to the point where it's no longer recognizable.

[LordArtemis]

I think it's likely the engine was chosen to facilitate a less expensive way to create the MMO. The hero engine allows unique area building and cooperation among developers...with real time changes allowed.

 

The problem exists in the customization IMO, not the engine itself, and as such can be adjusted to run better. They made the changes, so they can make the adjustments over time.

 

It is just something that is going to take a while. I think the engine today runs better than it did at launch, and I think it has vast room for improvement and will see that improvement.

 

Reducing CPU dependence should be a priority IMO. It is not very efficient in this aspect compared to some modern game engines.

[Tsillah]

My view is that there are better engines out there. They chose a new one that looked promising and allowed them to develop it in part themselves, but it didn't quite work out as intended. Having said that though, BW have created a compelling world that I like to play in. Realism isn't always better and although this student made something that felt more realistic it didn't give me the Star Wars vibe as much.

 

Don't forget, Star Wars was made as a modern fairy tale. I am not sure if I would want it to look like in the student video. BW are using a new engine for DA3 which looks quite nice as well.

 

Oh and I am no game developer, but I don't think switching engines is really an option, at least not a realistic one.