Dark Maul Video

[Xethis]

Sup Xethis,

 

My Spec: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#2000cZfrfRkGbRrbdzZs.3

Site I used for Parse: http://www.torparse.com/upload

 

Test 1: http://s289.photobucket.com/user/Zurai57/media/SWTORDUMMY10.png.html?sort=3&o=2

http://s289.photobucket.com/user/Zurai57/media/SWTORDUMMY11.png.html?sort=3&o=1

 

Test 2: http://s289.photobucket.com/user/Zurai57/media/SwtorDummy20.png.html?sort=3&o=0

http://s289.photobucket.com/user/Zurai57/media/SwtorDummy21.png.html?sort=3&o=3

 

It doesn't matter what spec you play as long as you enjoy it and can produce results.

I want to see you use this spec in more 1 vs 1's and 2 vs 1's with your enemy having full CD's. Especially vs a geared Jugg/PT Tank to see how it performs.

 

Ok I was looking over your parses and I am seeing what you are doing. It is sexy btw. I am actually a huge fan of Maul spam. Anyways I wanted to through a couple things at ya. First off in my parses, I have two Mauls, and 2 Shocks and one Discharge, one to two Thrashes and maybe a Saber Strike. Your parses have 4-5 Mauls one Shock and one Discharge (just during Reck I presume).

 

This tells me a couple of things. First, I need to Maul more. Second, you can do the exact same rotation that you do in your spec as you can in Dark Maul. Mauls costs the same, Shock and Discharge costs the same. Dark Embrace restores same amount of force. The only difference is that when you do that same rotation in Dark Maul spec you will have 50% increase crit damage on your Shock, and you will Double Discharge giving you 3k more damage in the exact same amount of globals and force used. Maul has the exact same chance to proc Energize as Thrash does, so do that. The majority of the time Energize will proc for me with in the first one or two times I Thrash or Maul, it will proc for you on your first couple Mauls more than half the time.

 

You obviously got way better gear than me, and when I was parsing Deception I was using standard rotations, not Maul spam. Tomorrow I will definitely give Decpetion a go again with your rotations. I will try to duplicate those same rotations with my spec and see how they do against each other.

 

Another thing to keep in mind, Maul spam is easy on a dummy. Trying to get 5 Mauls off on someone on the battlefield is a whole other animal. Since you have shown me that Maul spam is effective, I might even try 18-28-0, Blood of the Sith with Crackling Blast. You lose lots of goodies, but you gain a **** ton of force.

Edited September 20, 2013 by Xethis

[Xethis]

I hate to ask stupid questions but while you are waiting for these mauls we are of course assuming they are letting you stay at their back for the maul (which noone does unless they are focused on someone else)?

 

Not a stupid question. It is much easier to Maul spam on a dummy than in a WZ with competent players. I think he was just trying to disprove my statement that Dark Maul has better opening burst than full Deception.

[Elyna_]

Ok after much more testing ( about 45 minutes worth of dummy bashing) I have some results of my Better parses using your spec with different rotations. I still didn't outdo Full Deception but it does average around 37k mark even with my gear.

 

My Stats using your Spec in Dark Charge are:

Damage 1428-1730 Bonus Dmg 824.7 Force Dmg 1280.8

 

 

Test 1: http://s289.photobucket.com/user/Zurai57/media/DMParse1part1.png.html?sort=3&o=7

http://s289.photobucket.com/user/Zurai57/media/DMParse1part2.png.html?sort=3&o=6

 

Test 2: http://s289.photobucket.com/user/Zurai57/media/DMParse2part1.png.html?sort=3&o=4

http://s289.photobucket.com/user/Zurai57/media/DMParse2part2.png.html?sort=3&o=5

 

Test 3: http://s289.photobucket.com/user/Zurai57/media/DMParse3part1.png.html?sort=3&o=3

http://s289.photobucket.com/user/Zurai57/media/DMParse3part2.png.html?sort=3&o=2

 

Test 4: http://s289.photobucket.com/user/Zurai57/media/DMParse4part1.png.html?sort=3&o=1

http://s289.photobucket.com/user/Zurai57/media/DMParse4part2.png.html?sort=3&o=0

 

 

Now you and Nathan pointed out all the mauls and obviously this is not going to happen in warzone setting... we are merely comparing max burst in 10 second window with 3 reck charges. (Not refreshing with Force Cloak)

To Quote the late great Bruce Lee "Boards don't hit back" Same goes for dummies, including getting cc'd, defensive cd's etc which will screw your rotation.

 

For the record I never open up on a target with Spike unless the target is below 50%. My Parses in Deception is not the rotation I use in pvp; merely to show how much more dps Full deception can do...

 

The thing I like the most about this spec is when you break 10k on double discharge. The feeling of force starvation after completing a burst cycle with the spec is the main issue. I know instead of using extra mauls I can thrash more instead but losing dps in this 10 sec window. These tests also cant factor in Sith Executioner and Assassinate both of which Full Deception has an advantage over in both damage and energy consumption.

Edited September 20, 2013 by Elyna_

[Aragost]

Discharge is going to be the same for both specs, except in Dark Maul you will also Discharge the aoe Discharge from Dark Charge which in my gear is about 2.5k damage. .

 

No.

 

Just no.

[Evolixe]

No.

 

Just no.

 

And even then, only of you glitch it. And only the first one. So really what are we even talking about

 

You can't do this on a node defender either. Unless you get superlucky with the timing of finding said person.

[Xethis]

No.

 

Just no.

 

Have you seen my vid, double discharges are for real.

[Xethis]

And even then, only of you glitch it. And only the first one. So really what are we even talking about

 

You can't do this on a node defender either. Unless you get superlucky with the timing of finding said person.

 

Its not a glitch, it works 100% of the time. It might not be intended by the devs, but a glitch indicates that it only happens rarely.

 

What are we talking about? We are talking about opening burst, so ya you only need the first one, cause after you open, well your open. Get it bro, we are talking about OPENING. Ill take a double discharge only once as apposed to not at all. After all, its like a free 6k dmg.

 

Yes, as a defender it is more difficult to time the dance perfectly apon opening. A couple things that I do. First, I hang out in Surging Charge. If it is a non stealther you will see him coming from a mile away and you have plenty of time to prepare. In the event of another stealther I spam Low Slash as I am looking for him. If you get the jump, then you got 4 seconds to pop Reck, dance to Dark Charge, Maul and start your whoop ***.

[Evolixe]

Its not a glitch, it works 100% of the time. It might not be intended by the devs, but a glitch indicates that it only happens rarely.

 

Sigh. Whatever, the point is that it is obviously not intended to work that way.

 

Yes, as a defender it is more difficult to time the dance perfectly apon opening. A couple things that I do. First, I hang out in Surging Charge. If it is a non stealther you will see him coming from a mile away and you have plenty of time to prepare. In the event of another stealther I spam Low Slash as I am looking for him. If you get the jump, then you got 4 seconds to pop Reck, dance to Dark Charge, Maul and start your whoop ***.

 

And start with a completely dry force bar? Sound strategy man.

 

The more crap you write, the more I get the idea you have absolutely no clue as to what you're talking about. And it's getting annoiying since you're promoting horrible ways to play.

Edited September 20, 2013 by Evolixe

[DarrelK]

Um... what about Blackout? It will give you some force and you will remain in Dark Embrace, so your force regen should put you back with enough force to start pulling off the burst. Or you can always Force Cloak. Still, force management is a problem, but only AFTER you pull off the opener.

Can't really see how Xethis is teaching people to play "bad" if he is using something that's not THE mainstream spec.

Edited September 21, 2013 by DarrelK

[Evolixe]

That blackout is not going to suffice if he already uses the initial added force regen just to make up for stance dancing. You won't be having enough force while the "burst" is still going.

[AceMidnight]

Sigh. Whatever, the point is that it is obviously not intended to work that way.

 

 

 

And start with a completely dry force bar? Sound strategy man.

 

The more crap you write, the more I get the idea you have absolutely no clue as to what you're talking about. And it's getting annoiying since you're promoting horrible ways to play.

 

Wait, promoting or just sharing one way he likes to play the spec because people have asked? Is he selling or forcing anyone to use the spec? Nope. So why do you continue to try to shut him down because it does not conform to your method of play?

[Evolixe]

Wait, promoting or just sharing one way he likes to play the spec because people have asked? Is he selling or forcing anyone to use the spec? Nope. So why do you continue to try to shut him down because it does not conform to your method of play?

 

I suggest you to look up the meaning of the word promote.

 

Anyways, why do I shoot it down? Because he's hammering on this spec being remotely good with using faul tactics.

I don't want people to pick up on things that are outright bad.

[AceMidnight]

I suggest you to look up the meaning of the word promote.

 

Anyways, why do I shoot it down? Because he's hammering on this spec being remotely good with using faul tactics.

I don't want people to pick up on things that are outright bad.

 

Don't wan't people to pick up on things that are outright bad? So you decide for others what is good and bad for them? Can you see how that can come across? At all?

[Aragost]

The build hits hard, *********** hard. The place where it falls apart is that after the opener, you get one attack, wait 5seconds, then use another attack.

 

Node guarding, its useless. Unless you're fighting bads, in which case you can probably beat them playing madness.

 

A competent warrior will beat it. A sniper? you can probably take, same for most other classes. I can't think of any AC you'd be better killing as dark maul than you would be playing full deception. The difference being that after you finish a guy with deception, you have a high chance of taking out the guy who just arrived to back him up a second late, without needing to piss around swapping stances and waiting for force regen.

[Xethis]

And start with a completely dry force bar? Sound strategy man.

 

The more crap you write, the more I get the idea you have absolutely no clue as to what you're talking about. And it's getting annoiying since you're promoting horrible ways to play.

 

I used to think the same thing when I ran Wakajinn, I thought since stance dancing depletes 100% of your force there is no way in hell that it could possibly help you in any way. Someone in my guild told me about being able to double discharge and get Raze procs while in Surging Charge. I was very very doubtful. I thought, "who the **** cares if you can get a Raze proc or double Discharge, you won't have any force to use that ****" Then I tried it. What I found was during Dark Embrace even when you start with 0 force, I still gained force as I spammed the same abilities I always have.

 

I don't know why you are so focused on bashing this spec and me. I am promoting it because I am having success and fun with it. All I see on these forums is QQ (myslef included sometimes). I am just trying to spread the word on what I am doing and hoping that some will give this spec a try and like it.

 

What really baffles me about how much you hate this spec and me, is the fact that you have never even tried it.

[Xethis]

The build hits hard, *********** hard. The place where it falls apart is that after the opener, you get one attack, wait 5seconds, then use another attack.

 

Node guarding, its useless. Unless you're fighting bads, in which case you can probably beat them playing madness.

 

A competent warrior will beat it. A sniper? you can probably take, same for most other classes. I can't think of any AC you'd be better killing as dark maul than you would be playing full deception. The difference being that after you finish a guy with deception, you have a high chance of taking out the guy who just arrived to back him up a second late, without needing to piss around swapping stances and waiting for force regen.

 

I am no where near talented, and my pc sucks. I am sure that an equally geared and talented player will be able to beat me regardless of the AC he plays. But in WZ's when people don't have 100% of their cd's, I do extremely well. Well enough that I want to spread the love about this spec.

 

It is probably because I am so used to the spec, but I always do very well in the situation you described about blowing up someone and then getting opened on by another person. What this spec has is a bit more defense and more staying power. I find it rather easy to chain kill, even though in theory you'll never have the force to do it. Now, I am not stance dancing in these situations, pretty much double discharge for this spec is at the beginning of a skirmish, great for taking nodes 1v1. But with the time it takes to get to the next guy, deal with the cc or the kite that is on me, I seem to always have force for what I need when I get to me target.

 

On another note, I have been trying out 18-28-0 the last few days. When I first tried this spec many months ago, I dismissed it due to it losing the second Maul proc. But the force regen is sick, definitely has a huge increase in sustained damage as I have even more force to capitalize on more Energize procs. The force regen also helps with the stance dancing while stealthed, it only takes a few seconds to go from 0-100%. 18-28-0 definitely helps with where 12-31-3 falls apart for most people.

Edited September 23, 2013 by Xethis

[DarkCyanide]

how to play stance dancing with out using double discharge.

 

http://www.twitch.tv/xandrila/c/2732357

[Evolixe]

how to play stance dancing with out using double discharge.

 

http://www.twitch.tv/xandrila/c/2732357

 

You're not stance dancing anything. And you're playing madness.

 

Shoo.

[DarkCyanide]

haha.

 

actually i am not "madness", or i wouldn't have reckless electric ambush.

 

I also swap to surge stance on single target, and lightning stance on multi.

 

pay attention.

[Trinzek]

This looks like a great spec and the stance dancing seems like it would be fun to do once you get it down. I had a feeling once I scrolled down and went on to the next pages of this thread I would find some haters. Evolixe you're a hater, but that's okay. Haters gonna hate. Maybe you aren't one, but you sure did come off as one. I haven't tried the spec myself but it looks promising.

[Evolixe]

haha.

 

actually i am not "madness", or i wouldn't have reckless electric ambush.

 

I also swap to surge stance on single target, and lightning stance on multi.

 

pay attention.

 

I scoured through the entire video and didn't see you out of Lightning charge once.

 

Anyways, you're high up madness. that was the point.

Edited September 22, 2013 by Evolixe

[Xethis]

So the last few days been messing around with 18-30-0 spec. A different version of my beloved Dark Maul spec. I think it is actually better. You lose alot of crit from Maul and Thrash, but the force regen is sick.

 

One of the reason I had success with Dark Maul during openers is the fact that you get a Duplicity proc right from the get go and you get another Duplicity proc with in a few globals. Combine that with Shock and Discharge and you put out serious pressure. The 18-30-0 spec, doesn't have the same opening burst due to only having one Duplicity proc but does actually put up similar numbers because the force regen is so good you get off more Shocks and you can Maul spam during your Dark Embrace buff. Secondly, when you do get lucky with 2-3 Energize procs in a row, you have plenty of force to fire those bad boys off. It definitely is a huge increase in sustained damage where the old spec completely fell apart.

[JP_Legatus]

Well what do you know, negative Nancy has something negative to say.

 

Of course you did not see anything unexpected, your Evolixe, the best Shadow/Assassin there ever was. Nothing for you to ever learn because you know everything already. I don't understand how you say that Deception has the same opening burst. Deception can't do 3.5k opening burst. Dark Maul can.

 

So the Mauls are a wash between the two. So lets look at Discharge and Shock. Dark Maul has two Discharges, about 2.5k more damage per cast. Dark Maul has 50% increase crit on Shock. So, how can Deception even compare to the opening burst. Your in denial my friend. Dark Maul hands down has the best opening burst for the Assassin AC.

 

As far as my back peddling, I don't even know what your talking about. Sometimes a backpedal is necessary, specially when my target is in a Low Slash and I got time. I wasn't going to go there on your vid, but since your so quick to try and point out what I do wrong I guess Ill go write the book on all the stupid crap I saw you do in your vid.

 

Not trying to ruin your thunder, because double discharging is something I hadn't seen yet and it could possibly be worth doing.

 

BUT... full deception can reach numbers far in excess of 3500 on the first 10 seconds.

Let's look at what CAN happen in deception:

 

Pre-requisite: 2x VS buff (IE, you attacked someone twice)

Popped: recklessness, overcharge saber

-------------------------

Discharge - 6k, 2.5k surging charge crit

Shock - 4k, 2k proc, 2.5k surging charge auto-proc crit

Maul - 9k

(Force cloak or target died, recklessness, blackout)---------------

Discharge - 6k, 2.5k surging charge crit

Assassinate - 7-8k

Shock - 4k, 2k proc, 2.5k surging charge auto-proc crit

 

The total for these 6 globals (9s) is nearly 50k damage or 5555 dps in first 9s. Maul spam can finish the 3 globals off to reach a stupid 10-global number since you should still be at roughly full force, leaving you empty at the end. A perfect opener.

The odds of all this happening this way are astronomically low, but it is a possibility. Maul crits, surging charge procs, and surging charge crits all have to happen perfectly.

Taking into account a normal crit chance, the dps for a NORMAL deception opener would be ~41k damage or 4555 dps (assumption: one surging charge crit and either assassinate or maul crit, only one surging charge proc).

While carnage does have the highest 3-global burst, I think deception is vastly ahead of anything else in terms of 6 global burst, it's just you can't do it but every 90s. Snipers might actually be able to do more than 50k in 6 globals, not sure though.

Edited September 24, 2013 by JP_Legatus

[Xethis]

@JP_Legatus,

 

The comment I made about Deception not being capable of 3500dps was something I said because I was heated and let Evolixe get under my skin. At the time I was thinking about the gear that I was in and didn't consider Deceptions potential in full Conq. That being said....

 

There isn't a rotation that you do in Deception that cannot be duplicated in Dark Maul. All the abilities cost the same amount of force. Except with Dark Maul your Discharge is 6.2k+2.6k (in my gear) and Shocks are 6k+3k. The Mauls are going to be a wash and I guess you could technically make an argument for VS>Thrash, but that is only going to be a few hundred damage at best. Dark Maul also has a chance to proc another Energize during this first 10 seconds which even with out the Reck buff it still does 4.5k+2.3k.

 

Dark Maul is better opening burst. There isn't a sequence of abilities that you can do in Deception that can make up for the fact that Discharge and Shock both hit for less damage than they do with Dark Maul spec.

[Xethis]

While carnage does have the highest 3-global burst, I think deception is vastly ahead of anything else in terms of 6 global burst, it's just you can't do it but every 90s. Snipers might actually be able to do more than 50k in 6 globals, not sure though.

 

I don't think Carnage can come close to Assassin in 3 globals. Just using the numbers I used above I can Maul 8k, Shock 9k, and Discharge 8.5k. That is over 25k in 4.5 seconds.