I think Darkness getting back its 2% heal ticks would go down quite nicely

Sounds like scrubs

lolwhat?

I have plenty of friends, ones who don't feel the need to Queuesync with a skanktank & offheal in SR then tell the forums that they're the best pvp guild to exist.

lol, k then If that wasn't clear enough, your guild turned into a joke.

You didn't list alacrity in your post unless I'm misreading it? If you're strictly playing infil, then remove any/all alacrity and replace it with surge, maybe 1/2 pieces accuracy but its down to preference, 2pieces won't hurt your crit damage at all. You should probably keep them in the bank though, just in case you swap to hatred at some point the alacrity will come in useful.

Your crit is too high, you might get lucky some games, but you're likely to see a nice improvement if you stick to around 22/23% crit, put the rest in power.

23% crit, 2pieces accuracy, rest power/surge. Not exact, but as long as the crit is in 1-2% of that, the gear isn't an issue.

Can't we just agree to nerf operatives?

1. Only useful in a duel if you open with a sap, or an insta-ww when they have no dots on them(lolwtf?) 2. Holy ****, really?!?! 3/4, No. PTs, Mercs, Jugs, other sins, operatives, snipers and marauders all have a way to avoid your instant re-sap. Sorcs also have a second breaker. Each class needs a different tactic to sap, if they play it right. 5. Dot spreading isnt the be-all and end-all of pvp, sometimes a dot can do more harm than good, your dot can easily ruin a lift thats being cast, or about to be cast on someone who it is more useful to keep out of the fight than it is to have two dots on. Only sometimes mind, but your "always do this" is bad advice.

You only have 140 members? there's maybe 20 on the server that could be considered "good"

I thought S1 was much better than this one, i only part-timed 2/3, but even with the skanks i didn't notice as horrible a general level of players as this time round, although its only been a few days. I'm talking PTs doing 8k dmg in 3 rounds, a madness sorc that wouldnt use lightening because its not a dot, etc.

I'm noticing a lot of terribads ruining games, no idea if intentional or they're just that bad at the game? And quite a few jugs/pts tanking as dps, altho its only the ones with tank gear that give much problem most of the time.

lolpve

You're wrong. Oh wait you said discussion over, damn, whatever next? its almost like the opinions of the people who play deception actually mean something? surely not, exi-man has told us why we are wrong by stating we are wrong. Silly me. Your opinion is just that, your opinion. Plenty of people are playing deception well enough to use, and they are doing well in 1v1s with it. Just because you prefer playing the cheesy ballfest that is hatred, doesn't mean that deception is useless.

Congrats on toying with bads?

I disagree with this, I'd rather have a deception sin trying to take a node in regs, or pressuring a healer than anyone else. AP pt/vengeance being a close second for pressuring a healer, due to the fact they cant switch target as efficiently if its needed. In yolos/regs anyway. That said, I'm talking about a good deception sin, not one of the average players.

Then we seem to be disagreeing over nothing, because I agree, deception takes more effort to play to as high a standard a classes like PT which just require a face being smashed across a keyboard. The people I think are wrong, are the ones saying deception is horrible totally unplayable.

I've played AP, and played marksman/lethality a lot pre-2.0, as well as deception since 1.2, I know exactly what great burst is and how it works. Deception doesn't have great burst now, but it is still more than playable if done right. Yes, it's harder than it used to be. No, it's not as terrible as half the forums make it out to be. In 1v1s, its a better option than hatred in most situations, yeah theres great players who are an exception, but most of the time those players would give me just as much trouble if they were playing deception as well. I'm not in any way saying its a better spec than hatred, or that its more viable. What I'm saying is its just as viable, in the right situations. The players that can beat me as hatred vs my deception, are the same ones that would beat me 1v1 as deception vs deception. Thats down to the players not the spec. Posting a video is too much effort for now, but I might do after I've finished gearing although I don't see the point, I have a bunch of screenshots of myself outplaying hatred sins if they're much use to you? but I doubt it.

As a mez, its lacking. Dots see to that. As an interrupt it works fine, very similar in mechanics to spike out of stealth in that it doesn't last, but stops whatever they're doing. You can't complain that deception doesn't work, then insist on playing it the way it worked before 3.0, thats just stupid. If you spend the time trying to make deception work now, and try playing it differently, then your opinion would hold a lot more weight than complaining about the fact that it doesn't play like it used to. Also exi, you can post "lol" as much as you like, it doesn't change the fact that some people playing deception are doing fairly well with it. Could they do better with hatred? probably, but maybe they don't feel like numbers = winning, and want to play a build that they prefer. Its still viable in a lot of situations, just a shame that group 4v4 isn't one of them. That said, not everyone plays it, and normals/yolo realistically have a much much larger playerbase than group does.

This. I can think of at least 4/5 of us that are doing well regularly on my server(topping boards 80%+ of the time) with deception/infil still. It doesn't exactly shine in tank/heal matches, but its still more than capable of doing nasty damage if played right. What exactly is your problem? being kited too much? or are you stuck on them but not hitting the numbers of others? In normals/yolo that is, group is a different matter.

As hatred or deception? Certain skills are much more useful for one build than the other.

Kun? Are you from the same bunch of scrubs that run their mouth and post videos yet always back down when I want to duel any of your sins? I'm still waiting for your braxus or whatever he was called to get back to me when his gear is sorted. Or for the other guys who wanted to go 2v2 with me and Dariann, its been about a year now, I took it you realised how terrible you cretins were and stopped trying?

I'd happily take 30m range on a maul type spear attack, even with only 50dmg the animation alone would make it worth using.

As deception you should be focused on hurting one person in particular, not trying to AoE. The spec has few enough strengths, so focus on the ones it has, don't try to do something with it that the spec is bad at.