PvP and Gear: should it matter?

[MidichIorian]

Your theory fails to explain what is keeping PvPers - who have had full optimized conqueror for months - still playing..

Do you have any idea of how small that click is? Not even the majority of the so called regulars, people I would play with/against on a daily basis, were in min/maxed Conq....or even full Conq for that matter. Perhaps they were sending stuff to alts, I'm open to that possibility since the part-->conq step is so tiny anyway, but these are the "regulars". Outside this group of maybe 100 players it was even less common that you came across someone in top gear. I think I've come across a maximum of five people with the same level of min/maxing as myself on sage/sorc. So where are all these players who kept playing and how do you even tell when 99,9 % of the community isnt even in full Conq yet? Edited September 14, 2013 by MidichIorian

[masih_ad_dajjal]

People still think pve gear will make you better in a WZ due to bolster?

 

LOL!!!!!!! cause you don't have all pvp gear. It is quite obvious to those of us that do that it is better.

 

Please go away

[ChickenWangs]

People still think pve gear will make you better in a WZ due to bolster?

 

LOL!!!!!!! cause you don't have all pvp gear. It is quite obvious to those of us that do that it is better.

 

Please go away

 

You think PVP gear makes you better? That is ridiculous. Partisan gear is absolute trash, even if it is augmented. Conqueror gear is only good when fully, top tier augmented. The problem is bolster. I will take my 1700-1800 damage and 30k hp over 26k hp and 1300-1400 damage. Why? Because I still have 1390 expertise in full PVE gear. There is no need to wear PVP gear in PVP as long as you have 72s for PVE gear. The sets work for both game types. Bioware simply elected to leave bolster as is.

 

TL;DR Don't use pvp gear unless you have a full set of Conqueror, augmented. Just use the high end PVE gear and you will do fine

 

P.S. I have get more numbers, but pvp may be a lot more centralized around skill now. I don't know how much of a difference the conqueror gear makes, but I think the skill aspect is a lot more apparent and that is why gear matters so little.

[masih_ad_dajjal]

OK you clearly don't know and are just theorizing in wonderland cause full pve gear at 50% bonus is worse than partisan at 60%. no doubt. I have 4 chars with all 69'72 mix gear and part/conq gear and it is not really comparable.

 

Your Mara would parish to my Sorc heals trust me. it is that much of a diff.

 

How can you even post such nonsense

[MidichIorian]

OK you clearly don't know and are just theorizing in wonderland cause full pve gear at 50% bonus is worse than partisan at 60%. no doubt. I have 4 chars with all 69'72 mix gear and part/conq gear and it is not really comparable.

 

Your Mara would parish to my Sorc heals trust me. it is that much of a diff.

 

How can you even post such nonsense

The lvl 53 gear will give more expertise and overall be on par with Partsian. Do people actually think that the tiny step up to Conq makes that much of a difference? During a long game you might see a slight difference on the scoreboard but in a 1 vs 1 fight in the midst of battle it's minimal and not significant unless you're so even that one guy dies when the other one has less than 500 HP. And you can buy a full set of the 66 mods fairly cheap on GTN. I'd feel more motivated to "grind" (quotation marks since it's not really a grind) toward empty shells with a nice look. Edited September 14, 2013 by MidichIorian

[Omisri]

I don't think it should matter. But as an incentive I wouldn't mind only having the set piece bonus as an increase of sorts. maybe changing the 2/5 and 4/5 required to 3/5 and 5/5.

 

This way, The bolster can control all of your stats bringing everyone to a fair level based on AC and spec. The only edge would be these set piece bonus' which is tiny compared to stat changes currently in

[Kerensk]

And yet PvP itself got better. More players, better matches, everything went up.

 

Haters gonna hate, babies gonna cry.

 

You ignore a baby, it will cry for being ignored. You show it a candy, it will cry because you don't hand it over. You give it a candy, it will cry because it's blueberry instead of strawberry. You give it that strawberry candy, it will cry for no reason. The candy runs out, it will cry because of that.

 

I totally agree. PvP got alot better when the gear gap got shrunk. Only bads rely on gear to carry them. Hardly any matches are won by the team with better gear alone, it has much more to do with communication, strategy, calling incs, playing to your spec and rotation strengths, and knowing when to interrupt/CC/CC break (many well geared players win alot but it's because of the skills they built and not the gear they got).

 

I think there should still be a buff in gear but keep it minimal like it is now. Most of us still fight for that extra 3% stat increase even though it's tiny, it's really just there as a goal to work towards and keeps interest in the game. We all claim too hate the gear grind but it keeps us playing regularly, once you max out you switch to an alt to do it all over again.

 

They just need to fix bolster so we can figure out how our stats will be modified in a warzone when we mon/max at the vendors. But I think any noob in a WZ should be no more than 5-10% behind a fully equipped player stat wise. That way noobs with skill can still do well and won't be a boat anchor to the rest of us.

 

I also don't mind PvE players coming into PvP to play. In fact it's better if their gear is bolstered to PvP levels. Now they don't suck AND have weak gear. They just suck, and that makes them equal with 75% of the skill-less chuckleheads who play PvP regularly.

Let's kill expertise and put PvP gear in balance with PvE. Then when I feel like doing SM ops I'm not undergeared, and when a PvE hero comes to play with us his gear is comparable (and frankly I'd take an active PvE player who knows his class rotation over pvp gear grinder who quits at a hint of difficulty or camps for defensive comms while our team loses.)

[Noodlegotagun]

They just need to fix bolster so we can figure out how our stats will be modified in a warzone when we mon/max at the vendors. But I think any noob in a WZ should be no more than 5-10% behind a fully equipped player stat wise. That way noobs with skill can still do well and won't be a boat anchor to the rest of us.

 

I also don't mind PvE players coming into PvP to play. In fact it's better if their gear is bolstered to PvP levels. Now they don't suck AND have weak gear. They just suck, and that makes them equal with 75% of the skill-less chuckleheads who play PvP regularly.

Let's kill expertise and put PvP gear in balance with PvE. Then when I feel like doing SM ops I'm not undergeared, and when a PvE hero comes to play with us his gear is comparable (and frankly I'd take an active PvE player who knows his class rotation over pvp gear grinder who quits at a hint of difficulty or camps for defensive comms while our team loses.)

 

I primarily PVE and RP, but as I said before, I PVP on occassion, but I know how to hold my own in a Warzone, and not be as you put it, a "boat anchor" for my team.

 

The reason I didn't PVP nearly as much before the bolster change, was because the gear gap was so unforgiving, and despite my personal skill, I was still totally useless, simply because I was wet toilet paper in comparison. Now, I actually feel competitive, and like I can contribute. I just have to work a little harder, or play more conservative than someone who has better gear than I do. IN fact, there was one case, I ended up in a 1v1 against a fully conq geared Mercenary on my ungeared sentinel in my 3rd PVP match on Novarre coast at the mid turret. What did I do? I hit her, and when I started getting my *** kicked (naturally) I LOS'd her, and ran her in circles around the turret shed until reinforcements showed up and ganked her. I know fully geared PVP'ers who wouldn't think to do half the things I did to stay alive long enough to counter that cap.

 

So in my humble opinion. Gear is a crutch. Skill, resourcefulness, and situational awareness make you a good PVP'er.

Edited September 15, 2013 by Noodlegotagun

[Dingoo]

I read this thread and its stupid to argue about it really. this game was made with gear in mind for progression for both pvp and pve. Now some in this thread want to remove the progression in gear from pvp cause they get stomped in pvp? Well then how about we remove progression completely for both pvp and pve and make this into a GW2 clone. Trust me the game would lose a lot of people pretty fast. I'm personally not looking forward to change gear again since my characters are geared up to Conqueror, but even its the strive to become better that appeals. If there is no destination why take the time to travel?

 

As far as it goes for the Bolster system they introduced in 2.0 it was horribly broken at release and a long time after. Multiple patches has been done to fix exploits, glitches in it. At current version its almost definitely to advantage to just hover around 1900 bolstered expertise which means some pieces of pve gear gives you an slight advantage over pvp gear. I've seen plenty players with full 69/72 sets just do fine (ok dps/survivability) in a warzone with around 15-1700 bolstered expertise.

 

Someone suggested to bracket how much expertise one had.. that would require quite the limitations to make it work.

No I suggest to return a "introduction" set for new 55 pvp players, recycle the partisan set maybe?

But if so everyone should be able to get a free set of 66 gear for PvE as well...

Though with the bolster at its current form I haven't seen much of an issue gear wise, what happens in 2.4 will tell more I'm sure seeing another set for PvE is introduced at 78. which currently probably will blow the 67 pvp gear out the window for some pieces expertise or not.

 

If you get "1 shot" its more likely to be that the other team focused you at the time and burnt you cause your a, heals b. heavy dps class.. PvP is not fair nor static like PvE. I find most people who complain about the gear difference in PvP is the people in endgame PvE gear getting rolled cause they think its the same mind set to play PvP as PvE.

[MidichIorian]

The reason I didn't PVP nearly as much before the bolster change, was because the gear gap was so unforgiving, and despite my personal skill, I was still totally useless,.

I think it's more a matter of you not being as good as you think.

[Noodlegotagun]

I think it's more a matter of you not being as good as you think.

 

Love how you cut out all but 1/10th of my post, and decided to use ad hominem to try to be clever.

 

If you actually read the rest of the post, you'd see that I never claimed to be good, I just knew what I was doing to be competitive and help my team once the bolster change took place, and wasn't just dead weight merely because I didn't grind WZ comms in anticipation of 55 PVP, because that wasn't what I wanted to do.

[demystified]

Why do people make post like these? Are people really serious? Anyone with half a brain would know that this game will die if it didn't have gear. Look at guild wars, it died in the first month. It made lots of money in sales but it didn't retain players.

 

Let's look at it in a business point of view. So Bioware has like programmers, let's say around 10+. These programmers get payed 60k a year which is around 600k+ a year. They create pve content like dungeons every 3-4 months. So you want pve gear to be available through pvp commendations? You are basically telling Bioware, I don't want to see your dungeons and content, just give me gear. No one will even do dungeons if they can get gear through pvp. Dungeons have a lockout which means people cannot fully complete their gear for 1-2 months. You want gear to be available through pvp and allow players to get them in a week? I just gave you a summary of issues and problems, go figure it out how it is bad for Bioware.

 

Are people even serious these kinds of post? It is so uneducated.

Edited September 15, 2013 by demystified

[MidichIorian]

Love how you cut out all but 1/10th of my post, and decided to use ad hominem to try to be clever.

 

If you actually read the rest of the post, you'd see that I never claimed to be good, I just knew what I was doing to be competitive and help my team once the bolster change took place, and wasn't just dead weight merely because I didn't grind WZ comms in anticipation of 55 PVP, because that wasn't what I wanted to do.

No you treated it as a mini game and expected to be on par in whatever gear you showed up in. I would have been perfectly fine and expected the same in an ol' fashion FPS, before COD ruined the genre, but not in a RPG and especially not one where there used to be a "grind". They basically took away the one aspect of the game that made it interesting to me. I'm fine with you being of a different opinion but who do you think PvP should cater to, the player that plays day in and day out or one with focus on PvE who thinks it can be fun to PvP once in a while? We could have all had our way if there had been x-server and a population to support different queues and a proper matchmaking system but that is unfortunately not an option.

 

Assuming that gear was an issue, which I clearly don't think, it was only an issue to non-avid PvP'ers. Yeah PvP'ers had to go through it too but they knew what they were in for and it didnt take more than a few days to get through it. Then there's the PvE'er who plays five games per week and then complains about it taking months to gear up. Of course it does when you only play five games per week. As I've stated before, did all of you PvP for the first time when you dinged 55? Had you played 20 games on your way to 55 you would have had four cheap pieces. But I guess it was better to turn those into medpacks for a quick buck. We all had a choice and you chose something els. Deal with the consequences of your actions and plan ahead. I'm not complaining about not being able to raid when I've blown my basic comms on vials instead of entry gear.

Edited September 15, 2013 by MidichIorian

[demystified]

No you treated it as a mini game and expected to be on par in whatever gear you showed up in. I would have been perfectly fine and expected the same in an ol' fashion FPS, before COD ruined the genre, but not in a RPG and especially not one where there used to be a "grind". They basically took away the one aspect of the game that made it interesting to me. I'm fine with you being of a different opinion but who do you think PvP should cater to, the player that plays day in and day out or one with focus on PvE who thinks it can be fun to PvP once in a while? We could have all had our way if there had been x-server and a population to support different queues and a proper matchmaking system but that is unfortunately not an option.

 

Assuming that gear was an issue, which I clearly don't think, it was only an issue to non-avid PvP'ers. Yeah PvP'ers had to go through it too but they knew what they were in for and it didnt take more than a few days to get through it. Then there's the PvE'er who plays five games per week and then complains about it taking months to gear up. Of course it does when you only play five games per week. As I've stated before, did all of you PvP for the first time when you dinged 55? Had you played 20 games on your way to 55 you would have had four cheap pieces. But I guess it was better to turn those into medpacks for a quick buck. We all had a choice and you chose something els. Deal with the consequences of your actions and plan ahead. I'm not complaining about not being able to raid when I've blown my basic comms on vials instead of entry gear.

 

Who do you think bioware will cater to?

PvPers that do not buy cartel packs and happy with pwning people in the warzones?

Or PvErs that like shiny pixels and cool mounts which makes lots of money for Bioware?

 

I'm on your side btw but I don't think bioware will be.

[NogueiraA]

Why do people make post like these? Are people really serious? Anyone with half a brain would know that this game will die if it didn't have gear. Look at guild wars, it died in the first month. It made lots of money in sales but it didn't retain players.

 

Let's look at it in a business point of view. So Bioware has like programmers, let's say around 10+. These programmers get payed 60k a year which is around 600k+ a year. They create pve content like dungeons every 3-4 months. So you want pve gear to be available through pvp commendations? You are basically telling Bioware, I don't want to see your dungeons and content, just give me gear. No one will even do dungeons if they can get gear through pvp. Dungeons have a lockout which means people cannot fully complete their gear for 1-2 months. You want gear to be available through pvp and allow players to get them in a week? I just gave you a summary of issues and problems, go figure it out how it is bad for Bioware.

 

Are people even serious these kinds of post? It is so uneducated.

7:29 AM here playing GW2 right now, 20+ arenas and World pvp full of people

 

Wish SWTOR is dead like GW2 pvp.

[demystified]

7:29 AM here playing GW2 right now, 20+ arenas and World pvp full of people

 

Wish SWTOR is dead like GW2 pvp.

 

Don't kid yourself. It is dead. Why r u in swtor forums if GW2 is so exciting? Why do you even have a subscription in swtor? Don't even try, we both know GW2 does not retain players because it has no carrot. It is dead.

Edited September 15, 2013 by demystified

[Noodlegotagun]

No you treated it as a mini game and expected to be on par in whatever gear you showed up in. I would have been perfectly fine and expected the same in an ol' fashion FPS, before COD ruined the genre, but not in a RPG and especially not one where there used to be a "grind". They basically took away the one aspect of the game that made it interesting to me. I'm fine with you being of a different opinion but who do you think PvP should cater to, the player that plays day in and day out or one with focus on PvE who thinks it can be fun to PvP once in a while? We could have all had our way if there had been x-server and a population to support different queues and a proper matchmaking system but that is unfortunately not an option.

 

Assuming that gear was an issue, which I clearly don't think, it was only an issue to non-avid PvP'ers. Yeah PvP'ers had to go through it too but they knew what they were in for and it didnt take more than a few days to get through it. Then there's the PvE'er who plays five games per week and then complains about it taking months to gear up. Of course it does when you only play five games per week. As I've stated before, did all of you PvP for the first time when you dinged 55? Had you played 20 games on your way to 55 you would have had four cheap pieces. But I guess it was better to turn those into medpacks for a quick buck. We all had a choice and you chose something els. Deal with the consequences of your actions and plan ahead. I'm not complaining about not being able to raid when I've blown my basic comms on vials instead of entry gear.

 

for the third time, I had no intention of PVPing consistently at 55, So I didn't bother to grind for a bunch of stuff that's going to collect dust in my cargo hold for weeks at a time. I can definitely understand where you're coming from, wanting people who put in the work to have an edge, to get something for their effort. I understand that completely, as it's one of my personal values as well. Someone who puts in the effort, should get the fruits of their labors, no matter the medium.

 

I'm not complaining about how long it takes to gear up, because I have no intentio TO gear up. If I thought it was just a minigame to screw around in, I wouldn't try as hard as I do to contribute to my team's success as I do when I do PVP. I'm well aware I could contribute more if I geared, or PVP'ed more often and such, but.. PVP has never appealed to me as a primary method of enjoying an MMO. That's just my personal preference, and we all have those.

 

I'm not asking for PVP on the whole to cater to what I want. I'm well aware I have no right to make demands of anything PVP, as I participate very little in comparison to hundreds, maybe thousands of others who do. All I ask, is a fair shake. I have to wonder why you are so against people who don't PVP as often, having once been complete non-contributors to your team's success, are suddenly competitive, and not completely useless feeders. If your primary concern is winning, why does it matter so much if everyone on your team is competitive?

 

I'm not askign for PVP or PVE to be homogenized and humdrummed into oblivion like some people in this thread. I understand full well the need and intent of a PVP gear grind. But I'm also of the mind that even PVP should be enjoyable for people who don't want to or don't have the time to put into gearing up in a few days. I know there have been several MMO's where I've found the PVP to be fun enough mechanically, but get snubbed every time I try simply because the gear gap is unbearable.

 

TLDR: I'm not asking for PVP to cater to casuals, eliminate the gear grind, etc. All I'm asking for is a fair chance for those who haven't geared already, or want to possibly try a new way to enjoy a game.

[leonlotus]

I think its good to be rewarded ingame by various ways. But i also think spent time, should be the last of them.

 

It is kind of frustrating to know that a bad player have a good chance to beat you, for example, if youre doing quests in scenario, with PVE equipement (gained from hard OPs, where everyone must do its part), because he is wearing equipment that he gained just for entering in WZs over and over.. even if he sits down and wait till it ends.

 

But it would be interesting, and stimulating for PVP, to get equipment that would require medals or rank, aquired by killing players out of warzones.

Giving daily and weakly quests, like killing a number of players in one specific planet, or killing a boss inside an specifc rival outpost, come in and out of outpost without get killed. Things like that.

Edited September 15, 2013 by leonlotus

[DarthMaulUK]

There was a time when gear and rewards didn't matter to do PvP. Where Imperials and Rebels did battles in open areas in their HUNDREDS - where brave Rebels took on Imperial Bunkers under the threat of being discovered and attacked by Imperial defenders.

 

But unfortunately lack of a creative muscle has seen Bioware just copy WoW. Hell, even Arenas are coming - just yawn.

 

[leonlotus]

There is nothing wrong with the idea of playing an oldschoolgame, without special gears.

 

But since there is nothing wrong too, with giving prizes (equipment, titles, whatever) to those who do great feats, why not work the idea that can bring more possibilities?

 

Its a way to keep bringing new objectives, new challenges. As long as it helps to renew the game, its good.

Unfair fightings are part of the thing that keeps players running to get more powerful, and so, the game keeps alive.

 

I really just think its boring to do arena. Its a limited controlled space, not connected to the real game. Thats a pain.