In the defense of money makers (or getters).

[KorbanShepard]

I'm curious as to why so many posters are willing to defend EA/Bioware through thick and thin. Do they give you a pat on the back? Some special gear? Maybe a few extra cartel coins? No?

Well, does it help you in the long run if no one ever complains about Bioware's marketing practices which may discourage people from playing? No?

So why?

Do you respect them because they have money? Do you feel bad for them?

 

I'm curious because criticism no matter how "whiny" it may seem at the time is key to making your game better. If Bioware pulls a bad marketing ploy and people get upset about it, it is better for them to post their grievances so that when subs drop a few months down the road, BIoware has some explanation to back up the data.

[hadoken]

Not everyone is going to agree with every complaint made against the company. I disagree with a lot of them myself (though not all).

[MillionsKNives]

Just because people have the right to complain, it doesn't make their complaint suddenly valid, no matter the ridiculousness of it. I have every right to complain that BioWare hasn't come to my door and personally handed me $1,000,000 (I mean hey, they can spare it), but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't an idiot for doing so, and that people shouldn't point that out as such. Edited September 11, 2013 by MillionsKNives

[KorbanShepard]

Just because people have the right to complain, it doesn't make their complaint suddenly valid, no matter the ridiculousness of it. I have every right to complain that BioWare hasn't come to my door and personally handed me $1,000,000 (I mean hey, they can spare it), but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't an idiot for doing so, and that people shouldn't point that out as such.

 

Yeah, but nobody has made that complaint. Most of the complaints have been along the lines of outrageous charges for things in the Cartel Market which beg the question of whether or not the full value of a subscription is realized (I actually am on the fence on this one, but I get where people are coming from) or the most recent about the lack of information given about a digital expansion about 8-9 months ago in which people thought they were paying for the option to play a digital expansion period, not the option to play it first. Had they realized the latter, in which Bioware would have had to be more forthcoming , the buyers remorse would have not been so felt if at all. However, due to a lack of communication, people feel somewhat rightfully upset.

 

So, again, who is asking for the million from Bioware? And did they succeed?

[saremun]

I'm curious as to why so many posters are willing to defend EA/Bioware through thick and thin. Do they give you a pat on the back? Some special gear? Maybe a few extra cartel coins? No?

Well, does it help you in the long run if no one ever complains about Bioware's marketing practices which may discourage people from playing? No?

So why?

Do you respect them because they have money? Do you feel bad for them?

 

I'm curious because criticism no matter how "whiny" it may seem at the time is key to making your game better. If Bioware pulls a bad marketing ploy and people get upset about it, it is better for them to post their grievances so that when subs drop a few months down the road, BIoware has some explanation to back up the data.

 

Oh come on man, dont tell me that you havent seen it in real life, Fools with money are messing it up for the rest of the customers

[Rasen]

Real shocker incoming...Wait for it...Wait for it...

 

Maybe just maybe people don't think they are being cheated. Maybe just maybe some are actually okay with how Bioware does things. Last I checked Human beings were not part of a hive mind. We are individuals with differing view points, experiences and as a result opinions.

 

For me personally I have loved the Cartel Market since its inception. I have loved Bioware since the days of old. I loved the original ending of Mass Effect 3(excluding the lack of an epilogue). I loved Dragon Age 2(excluding the insane reusing of the same area assets. I get why it happened, but it was a very poor decision). And ultimately I love Star Wars The Old Republic! Keeping all this in mind as a long time Bioware fan I trust them. I do not think they are ever being malicious. I do not believe they are out to get me. I believe that they make mistakes. That they work with the best interests of the players in mind and want to work cooperatively with the community, but things don't work out perfectly all the time.

 

The problem we have in this forum and in all gaming forums in the past 3 to 5 years is that there doesn't really seem to be any people who want to work with the developers to improve the game. Just seems like we have a horde of very angry individuals who don't want to have a discussion on how to improve the game. They just want to criticize and bash. Their threads are not open to discussion hence why they tend to devolve into troll fests. It's just a broad attack that tends to be personal and not open to counter arguments. Anyone that has a dissenting argument is not allowed to have one so I feel that that alone is proof that such threads are not open to discussion.

 

Also consider that this is a site for a specific game. Wouldn't this be a site more for the fans then for the haters? So why do the haters expect that everyone should hate the game equally? I get that some people attack the game out of love. I truly do. But why should people who love the game and show it just sit quietly while these abusive lovers continue beating the game down?

 

I don't post much to defend Bioware because I've learned over the course of Mass Effect and Dragon Age that Bioware has been under fire since day zero! Yet they continue to improve their respective games and series because they have the conviction needed to do so. I applaud the devs who have such conviction and hope you continue to have such passion for the game.

[MillionsKNives]

Yeah, but nobody has made that complaint. Most of the complaints have been along the lines of outrageous charges for things in the Cartel Market which beg the question of whether or not the full value of a subscription is realized (I actually am on the fence on this one, but I get where people are coming from) or the most recent about the lack of information given about a digital expansion about 8-9 months ago in which people thought they were paying for the option to play a digital expansion period, not the option to play it first. Had they realized the latter, in which Bioware would have had to be more forthcoming , the buyers remorse would have not been so felt if at all. However, due to a lack of communication, people feel somewhat rightfully upset.

 

So, again, who is asking for the million from Bioware? And did they succeed?

 

Just because no one has made that complaint doesn't mean that their complaints aren't also ridiculous. Try to keep up.

[Brewski]

Because not all of us believe we are being screwed over, or that prices in the market are bad, or that Bioware is trying to steal my money, or that EA is trying to steal my soul.

 

Some of us honestly don't have a problem with how things are run.

 

You do? You have a right to state your opinion.

I don't? I have a right to state my opinion.

 

See. Works both ways.

 

To be honest, I don't agree with every move they make, and I definitely think they need to work on their approach to marketing and how they announce things, but overall I'm happy with the game and how things are run, and I feel like I am getting sufficient value for my money. Is that so hard to believe?

[LordArtemis]

I'm curious as to why so many posters are willing to defend EA/Bioware through thick and thin. Do they give you a pat on the back? Some special gear? Maybe a few extra cartel coins? No?

Well, does it help you in the long run if no one ever complains about Bioware's marketing practices which may discourage people from playing? No?

So why?

Do you respect them because they have money? Do you feel bad for them?

 

I'm curious because criticism no matter how "whiny" it may seem at the time is key to making your game better. If Bioware pulls a bad marketing ploy and people get upset about it, it is better for them to post their grievances so that when subs drop a few months down the road, BIoware has some explanation to back up the data.

 

Plenty of folks have complained about practices that may hurt the game overall, I myself campaigned for appearance changes, the abandonment of the silly visual progression model, sprint at level 1 and extra bars for preferred players to ease the pain of F2P.

 

That does not mean that I have lost my sense of reasoning or became a sheep overnight. Silly diatribe is silly diatribe no matter how you cut it.

 

This move by Bioware to offer an expansion for free that was once paid is COMMON PRACTICE. If something is crazy, I call it crazy.

 

I can't speak for others, but that is why I reject the idea that subscribers need reward for paying for something that is now free. The entire premise is ludicrous. This is not a defense of Bioware IMO...it is a defense of common sense.

Edited September 11, 2013 by LordArtemis

[Jaxtes]

Don't know games are considered a luxury so complaining about price seems strange besides people pay more for early access everywhere. I mean if EA/Bioware was doing these things with any essential product they would have been in trouble.

Or i could just be a new MMO gamer making a fool of himself on the forum.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Jaxtes

[TUXs]

I'm curious as to why so many posters are willing to defend EA/Bioware through thick and thin. Do they give you a pat on the back? Some special gear? Maybe a few extra cartel coins? No?

Well, does it help you in the long run if no one ever complains about Bioware's marketing practices which may discourage people from playing? No?

So why?

Do you respect them because they have money? Do you feel bad for them?

 

I'm curious because criticism no matter how "whiny" it may seem at the time is key to making your game better. If Bioware pulls a bad marketing ploy and people get upset about it, it is better for them to post their grievances so that when subs drop a few months down the road, BIoware has some explanation to back up the data.

 

It's only a handful of them and it's very clear that there are some who are likely paid posters...probably referred to as "marketing".

[ZETA_SCORPII]

I bought a black on black dye for cheap on the GTN thanks to it being on the CM. Thanks BW!

[Brewski]

It's only a handful of them and it's very clear that there are some who are likely paid posters...probably referred to as "marketing".

 

Yes, because it's impossible to believe anyone actually likes this game enough to pay a monthly sub for it.

[LordArtemis]

Yes, because it's impossible to believe anyone actually likes this game enough to pay a monthly sub for it.

 

Well, in defense of TUXs he did only say a handful. Not everyone that defends the game.

Edited September 11, 2013 by LordArtemis

[hadoken]

I bought a black on black dye for cheap on the GTN thanks to it being on the CM. Thanks BW!

 

I'm surprised enough were there for prices to drop on your server. I didn't see any inventory increase on the GTN for POT5.

[murshawursha]

Because, as others have said, some of us are okay with how Bioware does things.

 

I pre-ordered RotHC, hit 55 during early access, and have been raiding every week in the ~6 months since. I have most definitely gotten my $10 worth out of the expansion.

 

And you know what? I'm actually happy that it's going to be free now. I've been trying to convince one of my friends that played at launch (but had to quit because RL issues didn't give him the time to play) to re-sub and raid with us again. He was on the fence because he'd also have to buy the expansion to raid with us, but the announcement that it' going free pushed him over the edge to re-sub and play again. I got 6 months of content, and now I get to play with my friend again. It's a win-win. And I imagine he's hardly the only person who's going to feel that way about it, and in the long run, this move will probably increase subscriptions and get more people playing endgame content, which is a win for everyone in the game.

 

I should also note that I would pre-order another expansion without hesitation.

[ZETA_SCORPII]

I'm surprised enough were there for prices to drop on your server. I didn't see any inventory increase on the GTN for POT5.

 

It dropped to 1.5 mil on the Harbinger, better than the 3-6 mil t usually goes for. I paid 2.2 though, shoulda waited!

[TUXs]

Yes, because it's impossible to believe anyone actually likes this game enough to pay a monthly sub for it.

 

Is that what you believe? It must be, because I clearly didn't say that.

 

I like this game, I pay for 2 monthly subs for it.

[Neoforcer]

I'm curious as to why so many posters are willing to defend EA/Bioware through thick and thin..

 

No were just tired of Doug and Wendy Whiner coming in the forums To QQ as if the only thing that mattered was there problems. Being whiny does not change any thing in game other then irritate the poster of said forum. BW will just continue to push CC items enough to make more money so there whining will not make a dent in how thing are. Other then just cause more posts on how tired of whining People are. IT one of the catch 22 things

Edited September 11, 2013 by Neoforcer

[Andryah]

Well.. this is a complete meta-discussion.. but hey.. as long as the mods leave it open.. fair enough.

 

criticism no matter how "whiny" it may seem at the time is key to making your game better.

 

This explains quite a bit about your mindset IMO.

 

What is key to making an MMO better over time (note.. over time.. not on your particular demand_schedule) is thoughtful, constructive feedback that states the issue, and recommends changes that could improve the issue for a majority of players.

 

In addition, the game producers need to review, consider, and act upon such constructive feedback and suggestions as best serves the game and the broader player base as a whole.

 

Special interest groups (which are often actually just a handful of frustrated and angry players) raging and attacking on the forum and in turn attacking anyone that disagrees with them are not open to actual discussion.. they just want their needs met and do not care about the broader player base. The irony being they often pretend to "speak for the broader player base" as part of prosecuting their complaints.. where they actually are only speaking for themselves.

 

Not all complaints or issues expressed by players in a gaming forum are valid. Some are, many are not. Even for those that are... how you present it and discuss it IS KEY to being heard and listened to by fellow members and the devs.

 

"criticism no matter how 'whiny' " is a cop out... designed to justify bad behavior by forum members. Sensible people will not take it seriously even if it has merit.. precisely because of how it is presented. Method matters. Oh sure.. you can always find a few fellow forum members that are always ready to pile-on the whine with you.. but that does not build credibility.. it actually does the reverse. Why? Because believe it or not.. more people read a forum then actually post/respond in a forum. And these readers both deserve to hear all sides of a discussion fairly AND are quite capable of telling fact from distortion and hyperbole from genuine opinion.

 

criticism no matter how "whiny"

 

I'm curious as to why so many posters are willing to defend EA/Bioware through thick and thin. Do they give you a pat on the back? Some special gear? Maybe a few extra cartel coins? No?

Well, does it help you in the long run if no one ever complains about Bioware's marketing practices which may discourage people from playing? No?

So why?

 

Setting aside the obvious ad hominem nature of this comment...

 

.....what makes you think that just because a person is angry and ranting at Bioware, and others provide contrast and counter-point discussion to the poster who is angry and ranting, that anyone who disagrees with the angry person is by definition defending Bioware? Where exactly to you get this sort of USvsTHEM mindset from?

 

Most good discussion in a gaming forum is not a contrived faux_battle between goodVSevil. Quite the opposite really. But when people like yourself take the pejorative approach like you are doing in this comment above, it is clear that you want that kind of conflict. You want to be right and to vanquish the evil company and anyone that wants to discuss the merits of your complaints with you is just another target to be attacked. And then you wonder why you get pushback (even from harsh critics of the game) and do not get taken seriously and supported in a discussion about real issues (and there are always real issues with any MMO that players have both a right and a need to discuss).

 

TL;DR the forum is not a bar, and not all disagreements are bar fights, nor do players have the role of "bouncer"... no matter how you try to spin it as though they are.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Andryah

[mikebevo]

BioWare/EA are in business to make money, if they do not make money, then they will be out of business. If TOR is unprofitable then they will shut it down. Personally I have no problem with a company making money. They make money, pay and hire employees and they spend money..... I have no problem with CM selling dye packs for $20.00, I would not buy one for that, but others may. It is our choice, as long as people are willing to spend the money, so be it, it keeps the game profitable. Only way BioWare/EA is ripping people off is if the put a gun to your head and make you buy something, otherwise it is your choice and not a rip off. So if people are willing to spend the money, what you call a rip off, I call smart business practices.

[Brewski]

Is that what you believe? It must be, because I clearly didn't say that.

 

I like this game, I pay for 2 monthly subs for it.

 

That was more or less my point.

 

I'm tired of the argument that anyone who defends the game is paid Bioware employee/contractor/etc. It's no more valid than the belief that critics are in the employ of competing companies trying to bash the game to keep it down.

 

The argument is used to shout down and attempt to discredit anyone who disagrees with the negative posts, and I'm kind of tired of seeing it.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Brewski

[TUXs]

That was more or less my point.

 

I'm tired of the argument that anyone who defends the game is paid Bioware employee/contractor/etc. It's no more valid than the belief that critics are in the employ of competing companies trying to bash the game to keep it down.

 

The argument is used to shout down and attempt to discredit anyone who disagrees with the negative posts, and I'm kind of tired of seeing it.

 

Then avoid the forums and stop whining about it if you're so tired. Nobody said everyone who defends the game is paid, but it's clear there are some who seem motivated to defend no matter what.

[Andryah]

It dropped to 1.5 mil on the Harbinger, better than the 3-6 mil t usually goes for. I paid 2.2 though, shoulda waited!

 

Yep... the effect on Harbinger was clear, obvious and indicative.

 

I can't speak for other servers... but Harbinger is not remarkable in it's player economy.. just a bit busier.

[shamfurdispray]

I'm fine with the expansion being give away for free to a subcriber, but how EA/BioWare treat the customers with such distinction are ridiculous, I find it that way.

 

Of course many of you may disagree or even shunning me, but I have right to express my own thought as much as you do. I'm not going to flame anyone just because they have different opinion, but I expected the same treatment giving back.

 

That said I still think it's good thing since they're bringing new people into the game, encourage subscription and we all should keep this discussion on civilized & level headed.

 

On the other note I can't help but feel that some people who actually complain about people complaining doesn't have valid point or being unperceptive, and just want to bash the other people for sheer entertainment.

Edited September 11, 2013 by shamfurdispray