New Dyes Added, Then Removed?

[Reno_Tarshil]

And he's down the for the count... 1...2...3....

 

It's over, the fight is over!

[Arenatah]

QFT.

 

Glass half full > Glass half empty. Outlook is important to one's enjoyment of entertainment they pay for IMO.

 

I'm inclined to agree that a more positive outlook = more enjoyment, but I think it's really dangerous to say something like "well, consumers let it happen so it's okay that it happens".

 

A lot of consumers are dumb. A lot of people are dumb. That doesn't make it good or right for companies to take advantage of people who don't know any better.

 

Whether BW intended to take advantage of people or not (I think it was probably an honest mistake to omit the fact that it was a limited time thing), people still bought CC that they didn't get to spend on the intended item due to the fact that nobody told them it was a limited sale item.

Bioware doesn't HAVE to do something like a reimbursement to those who have CC that they can't spend on dye, or to put the item back up for a day or so, but it would be a nice gesture.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Arenatah

[Rafaman]

Reading comprehension 101: Context follows "Most of us" in my statement. Perhaps not the most elegantly worded declarative, but "most of us" who are "long time supporters" and who are "pissed off by this." Got it now?

 

It's obvious that some people aren't pissed. Great. I don't think I have told you once that YOU should be pissed. Feel free to be blissfully happy. Not that I believe you are, since it's generally miserable people who pick on others... just to be picking on them. Me? I'm a CE Founder who's had EAware disappoint me enough times I feel pretty justified complaining about it. If you don't want to see that, feel free to move along. But as soon as you start telling people they shouldn't be pissed, then I think you've found your way into Cluelessville, right on the corner of Deliberately Obtuse and Pointlessly Argumentative.

 

Ah... the vagaries of ad hominem. Great work there proving that you are the one doing the insulting. But, I will cease the argument as you have already proven to be exactly what you described us to be, to use your own words, deliberately obtuse and argumentative. Not to worry, you have proved to yourself you are the white knight of most of the longtime somethings or other.

 

Logic and reason is not what you are after. Emotional diatribes best fit you and yours. Totally your choice. But... stop poking yourself in the eye. It makes for a nasty disposition.

 

I will blissfully continue. Thanks.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Rafaman

[Enexemander]

I'm inclined to agree that a more positive outlook = more enjoyment, but I think it's really dangerous to say something like "well, consumers let it happen so it's okay that it happens".

 

A lot of consumers are dumb. A lot of people are dumb. That doesn't make it good or right for companies to take advantage of people who don't know any better.

 

Whether BW intended to take advantage of people or not (I think it was probably an honest mistake to omit the fact that it was a limited time thing), people still bought CC that they didn't get to spend on the intended item due to the fact that nobody told them it was a limited sale item.

Bioware doesn't HAVE to do something like a reimbursement to those who have CC that they can't spend on dye, or to put the item back up for a day or so, but it would be a nice gesture.

 

I think the most likely turn of events is that there was an outcry about the price being too high, and it started to get some traction on social media and Reddit. The item was therefore pulled before any considerable damage was done.

 

The dyes will be back when they figure out a way to market them correctly.

[Reno_Tarshil]

I think the most likely turn of events is that there was an outcry about the price being too high, and it started to get some traction on social media and Reddit. The item was therefore pulled before any considerable damage was done.

 

The dyes will be back when they figure out a way to market them correctly.

 

Even though they said the pricing will not change when they come back?

[Andryah]

I think the most likely turn of events is that there was an outcry about the price being too high, and it started to get some traction on social media and Reddit. The item was therefore pulled before any considerable damage was done.

 

Except Eric specifically said this was not the case and that when they return.. it will be at the same price. check the Dev Tracker. He was very clear about this. Which undermines my request for him to offer them on a one time discount next time they pop.. because people like you will say.. "SEE!!".. followed by the next cycle when they return at full price and people like you will say... "@#$^% Bioware!!"

Edited September 11, 2013 by Andryah

[Enexemander]

Except Eric specifically said this was not the case and that when they return.. it will be at the same price. check the Dev Tracker. He was very clear about this. Which undermines my request for him to offer them on a one time discount next time they pop.. because people like you will say.. "SEE!!".. followed by the next cycle when they return at full price and people like yuou will say... "@#$^% Bioware!!"

 

When they return, they'll be able to be added to collections or in some way reusable. Either that, or they will be heavily discounted.

 

Money is nice, but seriously bad press is another thing all together. You can't be charging for a one time use dye that's twice the price of your expansion (especially when other games give the dyes away for free). That's just a meme disaster waiting to happen.

[Arenatah]

When they return, they'll be able to be added to collections or in some way reusable. Either that, or they will be heavily discounted.

 

Money is nice, but seriously bad press is another thing all together. You can't be charging for a one time use dye that's twice the price of your expansion (especially when other games give the dyes away for free). That's just a meme disaster waiting to happen.

 

I agree that the price was silly high, but I'm not quite sure there's a conspiracy here, as evidenced by the fact that there were certainly people willing to buy the dye at the 2000cc/1000cc price.

 

If their issue with keeping them around all the time is rarity though, I don't get why they wouldn't lower the price to make it more accessible. I don't think that many people are going to load up on 500/600cc dyes in one day, even for that price.

[Andryah]

When they return, they'll be able to be added to collections or in some way reusable. Either that, or they will be heavily discounted.

 

No.. they won't. Did you not read what I wrote, nor check what Eric actually said??????

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6737969&postcount=100

 

Hey folks,

 

I just want to add a little bit of clarity and to reiterate what happened with the dyes on the Cartel Market. I know there is some thought that we have some sinister intent here, or that we just pulled the dyes out of reaction to some of the negative reaction around price, the truth is simple, I messed up.

 

We could have done a better job of messaging around that timeliness in the patch notes and we never actually made any posts following up to that to let folks know it was temporary in the forums. In both cases, the blame falls on me. Although we wont always message everything that changes on the CM all the time (sales, etc.). I will make it a point to make sure we are as crystal clear as possible about new items, or sales around limited time/availability items.

 

What I can say is that the dyes will be returning the CM in the future (I don't have timing right now) and when they do they will return at the same price you saw them at this past weekend. I will make sure you guys know they are coming when they do return!

 

Thank you again for your patience and I apologize for any inconvenience or confusion I caused!

 

-eric

[Hessen]

I'm not bothered about the availability of the product or not.

 

But continual "ball dropping" with regards to communication doesn't help me have confidence in the business.

[Andryah]

If their issue with keeping them around all the time is rarity though, I don't get why they wouldn't lower the price to make it more accessible. I don't think that many people are going to load up on 500/600cc dyes in one day, even for that price.

 

I have two working theories.

 

1) working theory is that they do not want to just squash people currently holding B/B or W/W dyes into the mud on in game trade prices. Cycled limited time sales helps mitigate that to a degree. Though I have say.. if I owned any.. I would have unloaded them last week. Yesterday I saw about 6-8 B/B for 1.8-2M credits on Harbinger (some multiples from one seller)..... vs early weekend when there were fewer of them and they were over 4M.

 

2) The other working theory is that they do not want the sales of dye packs to just evaporate overnight.. which they would if the B/B and W/W became accessible in unlimited quantities at the current prices on the CM.

 

In either theory.. I think they want to monitor their telemetry in game as they introduce these through direct sell to see how they are moving around and what effects they are having on the player economy. I do however think that over time.. they do become more available once they are comfortable with the effects on the economy.

[Andryah]

I'm not bothered about the availability of the product or not.

 

But continual "ball dropping" with regards to communication doesn't help me have confidence in the business.

 

They run pretty lean on staffing on the Community Support side of the operation since the downsizing last year. Personally, I don't think there is any conspiracy or ineptitude at play.. I think Eric and staff simply have a lot of things moving around them all at once.

 

It's classic in such an environment for things to fall on the floor from time to time. Not ideal.. but none of the communications issues have been tragic or game breaking either... so I think we need to keep it all in perspective. Besides.. so far.. Eric has done an outstanding job on making good on remedy and not repeating the same mistakes twice. Yeah.. game is complex and a lot of moving part going on.. so different mistakes.. for sure.. but again... none of them tragic or game breaking.

 

I suggest we cut Eric some slack here. He and his team have been waaaaaay more beneficial to the community then any mistakes have been detrimental. Burn effigies of EA on your front lawn each and every day if it makes you feel good.. but personally.. I advocate for giving Eric and his team some latitude here.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Andryah

[Hessen]

They run pretty lean on staffing on the Community Support side of the operation since the downsizing last year. Personally, I don't think there is any conspiracy or ineptitude at play.. I think Eric and staff simply have a lot of things moving around them all at once.

 

It's classic in such an environment for things to fall on the floor from time to time. Not ideal.. but none of the communications issues have been tragic or game breaking either... so I think we need to keep it all in perspective. Besides.. so far.. Eric has done an outstanding job on making good on remedy and not repeating the same mistakes twice. Yeah.. game is complex and a lot of moving part going on.. so different mistakes.. for sure.. but again... none of them tragic or game breaking.

 

I suggest we cut Eric some slack here. He and his team have been waaaaaay more beneficial to the community then any mistakes have been detrimental. Burn effigies of EA on your front lawn each and every day if it makes you feel good.. but personally.. I advocate for giving Eric and his team some latitude here.

 

I'm not going over the top with my criticism. But there have been many communication issues from pre-launch to now, and regardless of who is responsible now and who has been in the past, continual mistakes (even if small (very subjective)) don't help build or rebuild that trust, faith, happiness in the company.

 

I have realistic expectations, I don't expect some ridiculous perfection of communication. But I expect better than we've received in the past, and are receiving now. And I don't think it's unreasonable to provide that feedback in a calm and constructive manner.

[Andryah]

I'm not going over the top with my criticism. But there have been many communication issues from pre-launch to now, and regardless of who is responsible now and who has been in the past, continual mistakes (even if small (very subjective)) don't help build or rebuild that trust, faith, happiness in the company.

 

I have realistic expectations, I don't expect some ridiculous perfection of communication. But I expect better than we've received in the past, and are receiving now. And I don't think it's unreasonable to provide that feedback in a calm and constructive manner.

 

I'm confused. Are you saying you are not willing to cut Eric and his team any slack on communications?

 

If that is your position.. I very much disagree. This searching for scapegoats over communications misunderstandings makes no sense whatsoever. Nor does getting worked up about a miscommunication.

 

Besides.. by any objective measure.. communications at launch is not relevant to today. That's holding an old grudge unfairly IMO. Communications has been much better under Eric's tenure then at any time since early access.

 

Honestly.. having worked in corporate business for many years.... I've seen much worse.. and with less consumer backlash and indignation then what goes on in this forum over things like this.

 

Note: I'm not excusing the mistakes.. I am questioning the punitive nature of the average forum reaction to the mistakes. The term "hair trigger" comes to mind for me (and I am not directing any of this toward you personally Hessen).

Edited September 11, 2013 by Andryah

[Hessen]

I'm confused. Are you saying you are not willing to cut Eric and his team any slack on communications?

 

If that is your position.. I very much disagree. This searching for scapegoats over communications misunderstandings makes no sense whatsoever. Nor does getting worked up about a miscommunication.

 

Honestly.. having worked in corporate business for many years.... I've seen much worse.. and with less consumer backlash and indignation then what goes on in this forum over things like this.

 

Note: I'm not excusing the mistakes.. I am questioning the punitive nature of the average forum reaction to the mistakes. The term "hair trigger" comes to mind for me (and I am not directing any of this toward you personally Hessen).

 

I'm not aiming any of my disappointment personally at Eric or his team, who works there or not is none of my concern, I'm simply feeding back to Bioware as a company that things like this affects my (as a consumer) perception of the company

 

I don't think that overeactions and the amount of outraged posts are needed, especially anything aimed directly at Eric. But I also don't think this miscommunication was trivial, or that combined with other poor communications (not all in the distant past) from the company, is frankly, good enough. Better than ever doesn't mean good enough.

 

I work in corporate business too, and things like this would see many internal "boots to bottoms".

Edited September 11, 2013 by Hessen

[Arenatah]

Note: I'm not excusing the mistakes.. I am questioning the punitive nature of the average forum reaction to the mistakes. The term "hair trigger" comes to mind for me (and I am not directing any of this toward you personally Hessen).

 

If we give them a pat on the head and say everything is okay, that leads them to think that it's okay to slack.

Firm but fair criticism should always be brought forth, especially in the matters of communication.

[manchusabre]

Really disappointing that there is no response form Bioware about the price other than it will ba the same price when it comes back.

[CosmicKat]

Really disappointing that there is no response form Bioware about the price other than it will ba the same price when it comes back.

 

It would take serious deathstars for them to backtrack to anything reasonable now.

 

It's like if you walked into a car dealership and asked the salesperson how much a car was and they said "A million kajillion". Kind of nowhere to go without looking like a moron.

[Mordinn]

Lol, relentless!

[CrazyMcGee]

I have to say, Eric, I know I am echoing everyone else, but I am really disappointed with this.

 

I had no idea that this was a limited time item. When the Revan title was advertised as limited time, I made sure I was logged in that day. I have no problem with time-limited content and I understand you want to encourage people to check the Cartel Market regularly.

 

But the patch notes made this sound like an item that had simply been introduced onto the market permanently. I was really happy to see the dyes were there, and I had no problems with the price, so this isn't a gripe about that.

 

I know you've apologised, and I appreciate that, but I do think the dyes should be brought back very soon and for more than the one(?) day they were on before. I know you want us in game and in the cartel market buying stuff and I understand that and I'm happy to do it. But we do have real lives too and we can't always be on every single day without fail. Believe me, I wish it weren't so.

 

So please, you've acknowledge the screw up and that's all fine, but let's see them back over this whole coming weekend. It may not have been your original plan, but it would be really appreciated.

[Mowermanx]

I'm not too sure a lot of people have many straws left!

[Rafaman]

Just logged in to Harbinger after the crash and Black on Black and White on White are in the CM.

 

So there you go. Get them while they are hot.

 

And no. I'm not trolling, they are there right now.

[Kurgun]

Just logged in to Harbinger after the crash and Black on Black and White on White are in the CM.

 

So there you go. Get them while they are hot.

 

And no. I'm not trolling, they are there right now.

 

Out of curiosity I checked the CM on Ebon Hawk and nothing.

[Andryah]

Out of curiosity I checked the CM on Ebon Hawk and nothing.

 

My guess is Habringer has them because the server crashed and had to be restarted a couple hours ago.

 

Interesting.. I wonder if this means that every server restart they automatically pop.. or if it's a bug and not intended to be that way. Seems like it would incent players to crash the servers if this is working as intended. I'm betting this is unintended on Harbinger since Eric promised to announce before they unlock them again.

 

Whatever... if you are on Harbinger and you have been jonesing for these dyes.. better grab them before they unlatch them again.

 

I also see the Corsec Electobaton on the CM on Harbinger too. I did not know it was released yet.. did I miss something?

Edited September 12, 2013 by Andryah

[Rafaman]

Interesting... so... since the servers aren't usually rebooted does this mean that everyone will see the dyes next week after maintenance, while the time allotted for the sale will expire on Harbinger?

 

Heh. Let the QQ begin!