SWTOR Critics

[Vis-Tecum]

Actually why I'm very curious (and skeptical) of Dragon Age 3 now that the leaders are gone.

 

the leaders???

 

you mean the doctors??? who calls them the leaders lol

 

on a serious note though off topic, I cant wait to see what they are revealing with inquisition tomorrow

[hadoken]

the leaders???

 

you mean the doctors??? who calls them the leaders lol

 

on a serious note though off topic, I cant wait to see what they are revealing with inquisition tomorrow

 

Yea I just meant in general now that (theoretically) the environment has changed a bit there with their (and others) absence. Hopefully for the good

[Vis-Tecum]

Yea I just meant in general now that (theoretically) the environment has changed a bit there with their (and others) absence. Hopefully for the good

 

yeah though it is horrible the doctors lost their passion for bioware and decided to leave, I have no problems with Aaryn Flyn. More concerned about the silent faceless GM at bioware Austin and the seemingly disconnect between the two studios

 

as long as Casey Hudson and to a slightly lesser extent James Ohlen and further down on the priority list Mike Laidlaw are still heading the creative departments and running their franchises I see no problems with the doctors having left

 

off topic but does anyone in this thread care about the original topic anymore

Edited August 23, 2013 by Vis-Tecum

[Aries_cz]

yeah though it is horrible the doctors lost their passion for bioware and decided to leave, I have no problems with Aaryn Flyn.

Can you blame someone for losing passion for something when they pour their hearts and souls into it and no matter what, Internet morons still throws buckets of horse crap at them?

[norlof]

Everyone talks about how they want this game and other MMOs to not be "WoW clones" but they don't realize that takes money, and time, and a higher chance that it will fail. You go out and try to invent something brand new and tell me how easy it is. I have no doubt someone one day will do it, but with the way the market is, its just easier to copy and tweak it a little.

 

For all the games faults, this is still one of the best MMOs out right now. I'm not saying its perfect or without fault, and I have my own problems with this game, but its still a good game. Gamers just drink a lot of Haterade.

Edited August 23, 2013 by norlof

[hadoken]

Can you blame someone for losing passion for something when they pour their hearts and souls into it and no matter what, Internet morons still throws buckets of horse crap at them?

 

You make it sound as if some of the criticisms of their latest games weren't justified.

[CosmicKat]

Everyone talks about how they want this game and other MMOs to not be "WoW clones" but they don't realize that takes money, and time, and a higher chance that it will fail. You go out and try to invent something brand new and tell me how easy it is. I have no doubt someone one day will do it, but with the way the market is, its just easier to copy and tweak it a little.

 

For all the games faults, this is still one of the best MMOs out right now. I'm not saying its perfect or without fault, and I have my own problems with this game, but its still a good game. Gamers just drink a lot of Haterade.

 

Almost every WoW clone has failed in spectacular fashion. None have ever come anywhere close to matching its numbers.

 

There is no logical reason why the various developers continue to follow this pattern as it clearly does not work.

[Vis-Tecum]

You make it sound as if some of the criticisms of their latest games weren't justified.

 

honestly a lot of them were not justified and the others were highly over exaggerated. especially with ME3 the game was great but did have its faults. but the internet acts like it was the single worst piece of **** and a direct insult to everything to do with the gaming industry, swtor is the second biggest insult to gaming ever

Edited August 23, 2013 by Vis-Tecum

[hadoken]

honestly a lot of them were not and the others were highly over exaggerated. especially with ME3 the game was great but did have its faults. but the internet acts like it was the single worst piece of **** and a direct insult to everything to do with the gaming industry, swtor is the second biggest insult to gaming ever

 

Well I don't want to derail the thread even further off the original topic (I don't even remember what that was at this point) but their response to the backlash about the ME3 ending with stubborn refusal to acknowledge the real problems with it but instead 'stay the course' and even further try to explain away that abomination was probably the main reason it just got worse over time. I'm sure some people exaggerated things as in the end, they're just video games, but still I feel they earned a lot of the scorn they got for their latest offerings by how they responded to to the criticisms (mostly with arrogance towards their players/customers).

Edited August 23, 2013 by hadoken

[bionamaster]

People, please. SWTOR is a game, only worse or better than any other in the eye of the beholder. Whether it's better or worse than, say, WoW, or GW2, or whatever abbreviated MMO title you can think is only in your head, and yours alone. What you think of a game really isn't worthy of a 20-page thread. Nobody is making you stay if you don't like the game, wouldn't we ll be a bit happier if we went and did things we enjoyed, instead of staying around to argue with others? Why can't we all just enjoy the game we're given or move on?

[Greenify]

Well no, indeed you do not need to do all the side quests, you have to do flashpoints or pvp instead, as you are behind in levels otherwise. And I fully agree with the fact that this is a problem of all games in this niche. I just dont understand what the reasoning behind it was to make ANOTHER copy of already existing and known gripes.

Top that off with the massive cost to even create the game.

 

Arguing that Skyrim had similar pointless sidequests may seem like a good argument, but comparing Skyrim to, for instance, KOTOR, just shows that there is a mile of difference between our expectations I guess. Side quests in Kotor were interesting, Skyrim itself is a 4 hour experience to get over with in 2. It's one of the most shallow RPG experiences I've ever had.

 

Guess I'm still butthurt over the comment that this is supposed to be KOTOR 3,4,5,6,...

 

edit: yes yes im aware about obsidian and kotor 2, they are also the ones who pitched making a 3rd part to disney quite recently if im not mistaken. hope dies last.

 

Also, I was mainly asking whether any statement was ever given by the people in charge to the amount of criticism there is.

 

Skyrim is huge as ****, whereas kotor is small as ****. If you filter out the pointless quests, skyrim is still bigger, and far less linear than kotor.

Edited August 23, 2013 by Greenify

[TravelersWay]

Almost every WoW clone has failed in spectacular fashion. None have ever come anywhere close to matching its numbers.

 

There is no logical reason why the various developers continue to follow this pattern as it clearly does not work.

 

Ohh, here we go again. Of course none will match WoW numbers - even Blizzard admits they never expected and probably can never duplicate it again. Regardless, just because a game doesn't beat WoW on pure numbers does not mean the style of gameplay as a whole is dead. To be perfectly honest, it is still more popular and successful than the alternative.

 

I just want to see Bioware pursue new innovations. Not the tried and true same old thing. Bring about real change in the MMO genre. Only by change will MMOs continue on. Without change they become stagnant and eventually will rot and die.

 

<snip>

 

Who doesn't - every hardcore gamer wants their favorite dev company to be new and innovative. It's not going to happen. Sometimes you just don't need to reinvent the wheel, just make is slightly more attractive. MMOs do not need to change to continue on - and those that have tried have failed just as much as the clones.

 

This may come as an utter shock to people, but the same old traditional tropes of MMO gameplay are still around because many people actually like them! Many people don't want them to change because, again, the wheel just works, and you don't need to reinvent it.

 

There is a reason that most companies do not copy what SWG or Eve did - it's because those types of games are suited only for a niche audience. Game companies are in the business of making money and in order to do so they need to minimize risk and maximize profits. Sandbox games like those do not appeal to a wide audience, therefore profits cannot be maximized because the core playerbase for the entire gaming industry is the casual gamer who generally does not find pure sandbox an attractive type of gameplay experience. Indie devs don't have those kinds of worries, so any true innovation will come from them first.

 

Themepark will always be more popular and profitable than Sandbox; a Themepark game that adds in small elements of Sandbox will be the most popular of all.

Edited August 23, 2013 by TravelersWay

[Tsillah]

This game has quite a bit of history by now and it certainly isn't all good, but I still like this game....a lot. Sure it's Star Wars but to me it also feels like Star Wars. I enjoy the game for what it is, even though it has its flaws. Why? Because it also has so many good things in it and the much better story lines and voice acting and feel of the world make SWTOR a place I like to be.

 

A lot of criticism against EA and BW might be justified...god knows I do not care for their lack of customer service, but it's a good game. I really like it.

[Aries_cz]

You make it sound as if some of the criticisms of their latest games weren't justified.

Some, yes, all of it, no.

 

People hate ME3 because apparently, by some weird logic, last 10 cocked up minutes invalidate tens of hours of pretty good game.

Yes, BW tried to explain it away, I was not happy about it, and I would very much like them to change it, but it was a question of author integrity. If they did back down and redid the entire ending, it would probably open the floodgates to people demanding change to every little thing and gaming industry would succumb to anarchy.

 

And as for SWTOR, they owned up to their mistakes. They tried to be reasonable in their explanations, they threw out content at faster rate than intended, but people were somehow convinced that it is possible to just magically conjure up 10 years of WoW development in 1 month.

[Andryah]

Almost every WoW clone has failed in spectacular fashion. None have ever come anywhere close to matching its numbers.

 

There is no logical reason why the various developers continue to follow this pattern as it clearly does not work.

 

Pointless.

 

Name one "non clone" MMO that was successful at anywhere near WoW's scale?

 

Tip: you can't. WoW as an anomaly in the genre.. yet to be repeated after more then a decade. Which is not to say it's all powerful and good either. It too is a shell of it's Vanilla/BC self.

 

But in the modern era of MMOs.. while this one had a rocky start... it did not fail and it is moving progressively up and to the right.

Edited August 23, 2013 by Andryah

[hadoken]

Pointless.

 

Name one "non clone" MMO that was successful at anywhere near WoW's scale?

 

Tip: you can't. WoW as an anomaly in the genre.. yet to be repeated after more then a decade. Which is not to say it's all powerful and good either. It too is a shell of it's Vanilla/BC self.

 

But in the modern era of MMOs.. while this one had a rocky start... it did not fail and it is moving progressively up and to the right.

 

Timeline is a little off as their highest pop was during Wrath, but otherwise mostly accurate (assuming we're ignoring all asian MMOs at any rate )

[Andryah]

Timeline is a little off as their highest pop was during Wrath, but otherwise mostly accurate (assuming we're ignoring all asian MMOs at any rate )

 

I understand.. but Wrath was simply pop hype from an expac to pent demand. Everyone knows WoW when south after BC... in terms of how well it met customer needs/wants. After that.. they are just milking IMO.

 

And yes.. What happens with Asian MMOs.... stays in Asia IMO. Two extremely different markets.

[LordArtemis]

Can you blame someone for losing passion for something when they pour their hearts and souls into it and no matter what, Internet morons still throws buckets of horse crap at them?

 

Passion does not necessarily earn praise. The result of that passion may not be a positive mechanism as history has demonstrated in politics, religion and business. I can understand the disappointment and disheartenment if they have or had it, but sometimes one chooses to be passionate about the wrong things.

 

The game received criticism that was well deserved IMO. That criticism was amplified by obvious avarice and arrogance on the part of certain devs....this is not the environment that likely earns praise. It in fact likely fosters the opposite.

 

As the captains of the ship the blame ultimately lays at their feet. That is how it works.

Edited August 24, 2013 by LordArtemis

[Shoshannim]

This game rocks!....if you don't like it, then move on.

[SkunkWerks]

Everyone knows WoW when south after BC... in terms of how well it met customer needs/wants.

 

I don't know what 'everyone' knows. What I know is Wrath was the high point of WoW for me, really. Hell, I really didn't even leave because it was any less awesome.

 

Just, well, seven years. Needed a change.

[hadoken]

I don't know what 'everyone' knows. What I know is Wrath was the high point of WoW for me, really. Hell, I really didn't even leave because it was any less awesome.

 

Just, well, seven years. Needed a change.

 

Yea it was actually when it was the most 'everyone friendly' but I just didn't want to get into that discussion again since it's always so emotionally charged.

[GratuaCuun]

-scratches head- SWTOR failed? *thinks about the MILLIONS of people who just bought billions of packs to get Varactyls* uh... okay... how?

 

I mean... did I miss something? When did SWTOR fail or die or whatever? I was just sitting here, minding my own business, stomping HK-47 for the second time... and the game is failing?

 

Dang... now I'll have to find something else to play... or just ignore 'critics' like this one

[Blackardin]

funny how this game, to me, changed not at all since it launched. and ive stayed away for about a year. the only thign that was different upon logging in and playing this time around, was that the cartel market place icon took up a part of my screen. otherwise the game changed in no aspect. article may be old, but its relevant. whatever, point that out some more if it makes you feel better, nobody else in the thread so far has.

 

like i said, i do enjoy the game, did not want to hear a bunch of pointless banter about 'ERRGGLLLDEERR THIS MY GAMU IT SO GUUD ERRGGLLLL'

 

some poster a few scrolls up finally gave me a response i was hoping to have more of in this thread:

 

There have been quite a few changes in the game. If you are contending that the CC icon is the only change then you have drawn a forgone conclusion, not subject to modification or open to being expanded upon.....which would render your OP moot.

 

The basic format has not changed and is not subject to change in this or any MMORPG, but there have been numerous enhancements to this game from improvement, expansions, to gear, to content, to mounts, etc.

Edited August 24, 2013 by Blackardin

[Arkerus]

Anyone claiming the game is the same game it was on release day is either intentionally trolling or delusional. Pick one.

 

 

That joke of a Forbes article isn't eve a Forbes article. Its an independent writer doing freelance work on their site. The bafoon who wrote the article didnt even check the facts before writing. He just read a bunch of troll comments and decided to write an article about it.

 

Yes the game had serious issues when it came out. It basically came out too early but what's done is done. The game has grown leaps and bounds since the initial batch of people left in the first year. We are in a MUCH better place now.

 

Rumor in the game industry is that this game is making money hand very fist. We know by the investor report it is at least doing well.

[Blackardin]

So essentially, every game ever released is dead on launch day to you, because added content to those games apparently does not qualify as improvements, and a very, very small number of games have ever improved or upgraded their core engine.

 

 

 

You're right OP, the core design and mechanics have not really changed - very few games (if any at all), rarely change. You use that to validate the article, but offer no suggestions on how the game should have changed in the past year to make it an improvement.

 

The problem is that the author makes several assumptions, and then provides them as fact - such as the cost of development. He simply took the highest estimated number that was thrown out (and as I recall, has not been proven in any substantive form in the industry), then tacks on another $100 mill just to sensationalize his article even further.

 

He also tries to contend that no one wanted a Star Wars MMO, and that MMO devs should be able to predict the future. First, there was a market for a Star Wars MMO, in the fact that even the failed SWG still managed to hang on for 8 years before finally (and rightfully) getting the axe. Second, one cannot predict which business model will flourish 5-8 years down the line. Back in 2005-2006 when this project was underway, no one could have predicted that F2P would be, not only acceptable, but demanded of MMOs in the West.

 

This.