Let us make the forums more positive

[Taorus]

Taorus speaks for me. I still think SWTOR is in maintenance mode.

 

 

BTW, I love all your responses, Tao. They crack me up!

 

 

The game cannot really move forward until we have an honest discussion about the major problems. But we continue to get propaganda threads like this, which are not gonna help...in the slightest.

 

"Hey. everything is rainbows and sunshine...Yay!" NOT!!!

[iankalo]

SWTOR cant live without trolls and sith lords! Whining and trolling makes BW to move their azzsez and create something new to the game. If we are all positive , then the only new thing addeded to SWTOR will be cartel market packs.

[MrJurgens]

The game cannot really move forward until we have an honest discussion about the major problems. But we continue to get propaganda threads like this, which are not gonna help...in the slightest.

 

"Hey. everything is rainbows and sunshine...Yay!" NOT!!!

I agree.

 

Tbh, I do like the CM, but I see EA/BW deviating more towards cash shop patches and not enough content patches. The game still lacks endgame content. Virtually no one does the tier 1 Ops anymore, and PvP has been getting shafted. Hell, RP'ers are the "Untouchables" of the system.

 

I get that EA and BW are businesses, but the more subscribers feel undervalued and feel like they're getting nickel and dimed for more and more things, the more subs this game will lose. Sure, we have F2P'ers and Preferred players, but eventually they might leave too. F2P'ers and Preferred players are most likely just here for the Story, but once they run out of things to do (which they most likely will) this game is going to tank again, and EA/BW will be forced to do something else so they won't be forced to shutdown the game (and I highly doubt they have any other options left).

 

Unfortunately, with Biodrones running around, and with others even having the audacity to say the stuff they say is pragmatic, there will never be an honest discussion. Biodrones will keep droning, and people who back up their responses with what they think they say is objective won't help this game at all.

[Taorus]

I agree.

 

Tbh, I do like the CM, but I see EA/BW deviating more towards cash shop patches and not enough content patches. The game still lacks endgame content. Virtually no one does the tier 1 Ops anymore, and PvP has been getting shafted. Hell, RP'ers are the "Untouchables" of the system.

 

I get that EA and BW are businesses, but the more subscribers feel undervalued and feel like they're getting nickel and dimed for more and more things, the more subs this game will lose. Sure, we have F2P'ers and Preferred players, but eventually they might leave too. F2P'ers and Preferred players are most likely just here for the Story, but once they run out of things to do (which they most likely will) this game is going to tank again, and EA/BW will be forced to do something else so they won't be forced to shutdown the game (and I highly doubt they have any other options left).

 

Unfortunately, with Biodrones running around, and with others even having the audacity to say the stuff they say is pragmatic, there will never be an honest discussion. Biodrones will keep droning, and people who back up their responses with what they think they say is objective won't help this game at all.

 

QFT Brother Jurgens:(

[Laendser]

...

Constructive criticism has all but vanished here.

...

 

I couldn't agree more.

 

BioFail has proven time after time again that their stance is that they know best, and suggestions fall on deaf and arrogant ears. Constructive criticism is useful as a means of possible change, change for the better. If BioFail would defer their omniscience and actually concede room for improvement, then people would see the constructive criticism process as a valid exercise and truly do more of it rather than be forced into the corner of teeth-gnashing lament or unsubscribing out of lack of recourse.

[JPryde]

I couldn't agree more.

 

BioFail has proven time after time again that their stance is that they know best, and suggestions fall on deaf and arrogant ears. Constructive criticism is useful as a means of possible change, change for the better. If BioFail would defer their omniscience and actually concede room for improvement, then people would see the constructive criticism process as a valid exercise and truly do more of it rather than be forced into the corner of teeth-gnashing lament or unsubscribing out of lack of recourse.

Do you really think it is constructive criticism to call the host of this game "BioFail" ?

[MrJurgens]

Do you really think it is constructive criticism to call the host of this game "BioFail" ?

It's probably not constructive, but I'm not bothered by it.

 

The defenders? Most likely.

 

[NigeldeJ]

In the OP's defense, he says that he thinks that this is like the best game ever, but he does see that there is room for improvement. What the OP therefore asks, is that we don't flame down everything, but have a healthy discussion about it, without numerous troll posts. Now I personally don't think that will ever happen, 'cause we are on the internet after all, where everyone can say how they feel, but hey, who can blame a man for trying?

[LordArtemis]

In the OP's defense, he says that he thinks that this is like the best game ever, but he does see that there is room for improvement. What the OP therefore asks, is that we don't flame down everything, but have a healthy discussion about it, without numerous troll posts. Now I personally don't think that will ever happen, 'cause we are on the internet after all, where everyone can say how they feel, but hey, who can blame a man for trying?

 

And yet the OP makes a trollish comment with the first post.

 

Exactly the reason why this type of discussion does not work. Instead of actually being constructive negatively OR presenting unbiased and genuine praise for the game's merits people feel they have to compete with each other engaging in forum PVP.

 

This was not a "make things more positive on the forum" post. There have been plenty of those that have received accolades for doing so. This was a post with an agenda that intended to have exactly the opposite effect of turning things positive IMO.

 

Insulting those that oppose your opinion never lends credence to your opinion IMO.

[stockmks]

This is really simple if you think about it?

 

For all the positive aspects of tor, well, people are busy eating/consuming those things in the game itself. Those things are why tor has any attention from anyone. Further, those aspects don't need to be changed, so less reason to discuss them (and people may have discounted the chance of getting MORE of something should they raise the positive).

 

Negative things however inherently want to be discussed, as negative things should be in a sane world be worked towards changing.. And should be raised, as they too are being experienced in the game... In general negative things are better considered and addressed instead of blindly ignoring or allowing to continue.. That's how a lot of first world people function... Makes sense right?

 

There's also a potential failing in being overly happy about things.. As we know there's a community team watching the forums.. And just just like in the physical world.. Negative behavior may result in change.. But positive behavior will affirm something and cause it to continue. E.g. People who don't like all the cartel market effort should continue to say so etc. ( I personally don't mind it but yeah).

Edited August 5, 2013 by stockmks

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

I'll make the forums more positive.

 

/permaban_everyone

 

ahhh peace at last!

[TUXs]

The game cannot really move forward until we have an honest discussion about the major problems. But we continue to get propaganda threads like this, which are not gonna help...in the slightest.

 

"Hey. everything is rainbows and sunshine...Yay!" NOT!!!

 

This is very true. I'm here because I enjoy the game, my $15 a month per account is testimony to that, but it does have its flaws that need to be addressed (PvP, speed of updates, lack of content, lack of incentive to sub, disconnect with the player base, terrible communication, misfiring skills, lag, over abundance of loading screens, lack of social activities etc.).

 

This is a good game, my personal favorite, but there are real issues that Bioware NEEDS to address imo.

 

Props to Bioware for making a good game, but good games are easy to find on the interweb. SWTOR could easily become a GREAT game with the right focus. I sincerely hope we can help point them in the right direction, because the direction they took, didn't do as well as I think it could have.

[Blackardin]

You lost me right here:

 

Hello everyone. I hope you all are well. Star Wars: The Old Republic is a fun, well balanced, great mmorpg with great stories, lovely cutscenes, great companions and overall a fun and enjoyable atmosphere created a lot by the players in game

 

Nice propaganda piece though...made me giggle.

 

Great MMO's do not lose 2 million sub's and go F2p in less than a year.

 

I think this is what she is speaking of- hyperbole, conjecture, accusation rather then input and information.

 

Wow has lost over 4 million subs and it is a pretty great game. F2P is not a sign of defeat but a paradigm shift within the MMO genre.

 

If we can shy away from this type of vitriol, and move toward more rationally thought out, intellectually sound, well researched contentions it truly would be a better place to visit.

[Ansalem]

These forums seem positive enough...HIV positive cuz they filled with AIDS

[branmakmuffin]

And yet the OP makes a trollish comment with the first post.

 

[...]

 

This was not a "make things more positive on the forum" post. There have been plenty of those that have received accolades for doing so. This was a post with an agenda that intended to have exactly the opposite effect of turning things positive IMO.

 

Insulting those that oppose your opinion never lends credence to your opinion IMO.

Agreed. "Let's all be friends and a pox on the negative Nellies" posts are a relatively common type of trolling. The OP surely know such a post will provoke "anti" replies, and without contributing anything of substance to the forums.

[Blackardin]

It is possible there is a reason for that. You decided to deride those that criticize the game, which does not bode well for your post.

 

I have been posting positive feedback lately on the game, but will not post a positive message in this thread since this is not a positive thread...it is a propaganda piece. Next time post a real positive thread and I will participate.

 

In case you didn't understand, a positive thread is one that expounds on the merits of the game without insulting others or forum members.

 

 

I would have to disagree with your contention here. You have extrapolated out her assessment to meet your argument. She did nothing of the sort. She spoke of attitude, not opinion. She did not disparage or deride those that criticize the game but those that do so in a particular way. Pointing out a select aspect of a group does not encompass the entirety of the group.

[TUXs]

F2P is not a sign of defeat but a paradigm shift within the MMO genre.

 

Doesn't W0W disprove that theory? Why is it only games that have failed that seem to think this way? Prior to launch, Bioware openly mocked F2P games...I only see this supposed "shift" being stated by developers who are trying to account for (justify) their games poor performance.

 

I would argue that these days, online purchases and online sub fees are a norm in society...just a few years ago, that wasn't the case...I just don't buy this idea that there's some "shift" at play here...I think it's just bad games justifying their poor performance.

[oaceen]

i feel like this is what general is all the time.

 

it also applies to general chat ingame quite often.

[Blackardin]

There is nothing positive about this statement. I understand it just fine. Including it makes this propaganda IMO.

 

I think it is YOU that does not understand what positivity or propaganda is. Otherwise you would not have included this exaggerated inaccurate diatribe in your OP.

 

But like you said about those other opinions...you have yours, I have mine. And that is that.

 

You of course have the right to do what you want. But you can't call an apple an orange and expect all folks to take you for your word IMO.

 

Well, you also cannot simply "cherry pick" aspects of a thesis as a means of disparaging the entirety of the contention....which you are doing here. The overall post is not representative of this accusation at all.

 

However, we are in a situation here that does demonstrate her contention, where nit-picky argumentation and off-topic accusation tend to devalue the original contention. LOL

[Blackardin]

Doesn't W0W disprove that theory? Why is it only games that have failed that seem to think this way? Prior to launch, Bioware openly mocked F2P games...I only see this supposed "shift" being stated by developers who are trying to account for (justify) their games poor performance.

 

I would argue that these days, online purchases and online sub fees are a norm in society...just a few years ago, that wasn't the case...I just don't buy this idea that there's some "shift" at play here...I think it's just bad games justifying their poor performance.

 

Wow may have invented the concept with their F2P trial offer. They've also been a leader in other areas such as "recruit a friend", "scroll of resurrection".

 

I would contend that Wow, although actively participating in aspects of F2P, was sort of "in before the lock", and had their player base well established (mostly due to the fact that they were the best and only game in town for such a long time) under the old format, not to mention a game that could be played on virtually any machine that could be plugged into the wall. Their numbers were formerly so great that losing 4 million subs only harmed them were it would have ended a newer, less established game....but the loss of those 4 million would tend to support the need for alternative means of accessing the game beyond a subscription.

 

I would imagine that as their steady decline, under the old model, continues they may look to the newer model. Maybe not, but I think we can safely assume that all new release games will be entertaining this concept to some degree or another.

Edited August 5, 2013 by Blackardin

[MrJurgens]

Doesn't W0W disprove that theory? Why is it only games that have failed that seem to think this way? Prior to launch, Bioware openly mocked F2P games...I only see this supposed "shift" being stated by developers who are trying to account for (justify) their games poor performance.

 

I would argue that these days, online purchases and online sub fees are a norm in society...just a few years ago, that wasn't the case...I just don't buy this idea that there's some "shift" at play here...I think it's just bad games justifying their poor performance.

Agreed.

 

F2P is just a last resort that all it really shows is how bad their game really is. If this game's cash shop was removed or started being largely ignored, this game would sink hands down. No more SWTOR.

 

F2P is such a terrible model. Complete and utter garbage. Hopefully there will be future MMOs that can live and thrive under a P2P model.

Edited August 5, 2013 by MrJurgens

[Andryah]

Doesn't W0W disprove that theory?

 

No.. it does not. WoW benefited from launching 10 years ago.. pre-F2P as business model, and continues to benefit (though on a lessor scale) from it's invested installed base of players... many of which resub on a recurring basis to play a patch or expac before unsubbing again. If WoW launched today, it would either be freemium out the gate, or it would convert sometime in the early part of it's lifecycle in order to compete in the market.

 

You are a smart guy... so I know you know this. I don't understand why you are pretending otherwise.

 

Name one MMO launched in the last three years that is subscriber only today? And no.. it's not because they all failed.... it's that the business model of freemium works better with the diversity and desires of today's player base in MMOs.

Edited August 5, 2013 by Andryah

[branmakmuffin]

Doesn't W0W disprove that theory? Why is it only games that have failed that seem to think this way? Prior to launch, Bioware openly mocked F2P games...I only see this supposed "shift" being stated by developers who are trying to account for (justify) their games poor performance.

BWEA probably thought TOR could be a "WoW killer." Eventually there will be a "WoW killer." Do you really see people playing WoW by the millions in 20 years? Its graphics are out-dated now. But whatever game "kills" WoW will do so simply because it happens to catch on when WoW tanks, not because it was specifically made to kill WoW.

 

I would argue that these days, online purchases and online sub fees are a norm in society...just a few years ago, that wasn't the case...I just don't buy this idea that there's some "shift" at play here...I think it's just bad games justifying their poor performance.

"Bad game?" What do you mean by "bad game?" Financially or esthetically? Esthetically, many games are superior to WoW IMO, and they all have an F2P option (or are pure F2P/MT or B2P).

[Andryah]

BWEA probably thought TOR could be a "WoW killer." Eventually there will be a "WoW killer." Do you really see people playing WoW by the millions in 20 years? Its graphics are out-dated now. But whatever game "kills" WoW will do so simply because it happens to catch on when WoW tanks, not because it was specifically made to kill WoW.

 

I do not, and have never, believed the genre will/would see a WoW killer. This who carry a "WoW killer" mind set is just the typical player venting because they are unhappy (with WoW in most cases) or the typical "us vs them" mentality that permeates much of the player base. Some people need/want a validation for choosing to play a game, and it being an "XYZ killer" is a convenient internet mythology for them to fall back on.

 

WoW will die like most MMOs.. a long slow progressive deterioration from old age and a changing player bases needs/wants. In other words.. from natural causes.

 

that said... sure... it's possible that Bioware thought they had an competitor on an even playing field against WoW.. but I disagree.. as there is not a packaged game you can launch that can untrench an installed and emotionally invested player base. And when I say Invested....I am referring to their attachment to their personal investment...time played and in game wealth earned, more so then anything else IMO.

Edited August 5, 2013 by Andryah

[MrJurgens]

And no.. it's not because they all failed.... it's that the business model of freemium works better with the diversity and desires of today's player base in MMOs.

The F2P is a failure model. That is why SWTOR went from P2P to F2P... in less than one year...