I Want To Like TOR, But It Just Feels Old

[briansmelton]

Why does it always come down to this stereotypical, overused, and pathetic argument? You do not have to be a "fanboy" to want more variety in a dead market. SWTOR has potential where other games failed.

 

The people who play these games, "fanboys" or not, are the ones revitalizing the market, while people like you whine like toddlers.

 

Chances are, those who do quit, will just outright stop MMO's. The MMO market is pathetic right now, with Rift being the only other "real" MMO.

 

See you in WOW soon.

[Krutex]

You are comparing the features of a fully matured MMO with 9+ years of development time, fine-tuning, feature-adding, and balancing to a just-released MMO.

 

I completely understand your gripes, but it's just not a fair comparison. WoW did not launch with that many BGs or dungeons, and certainly didn't launch with that feature set.

 

In point of fact, Blizzard developers have said time and time again how difficult some of the feature additions they've added have been to create. What you expect is for a brand new MMO to launch out the gate with a 4~6+ year development time and a multi-million dollar investment. That's not going to happen.

 

And to put the nail in the coffin of how "good" WoW is, you can easily level to 85 in under four weeks, gear yourself to raid in less than three days, and have downed the last boss of the last raid in less than three hours.

 

As per PvP, it's an absolute mess, even 7 years in. A handful of classes and comps always dominate every arena season, those awesome BGs you're talking about? Only TWO are new within the last year, and both are copies of other BGs.

 

So all of your amazing content is worthless. WoW's graphics are terrible, the balancing is still absolutely horrible, and, unless you like standing around in a major city for hours trolling trade or mindless grinding daily quests for paltry rewards, there is nothing to do.

 

I'd take a game with flaws that is enjoyable to a game that is perfectly polished and spoon-feeds me to end-game where I get bored or reroll.

 

Sorry, Current developed WoW is the baseline by which other MMO's get judged. It's not like a bunch of noobs made TOR. It's from a AAA studio that's owned by one of the largest game companies in the world.

 

What many of the WoW comparison haters don't seem to get is that these people aren't posting because they love them some WoW so much that they spent money on another game just to troll their forums. There's a lot of people in WoW that like the MMO genre and desperately want to leave. But, they at least expect a baseline experience comparable to what they're playing currently. I'm not talking about 8 years of piled up content. But WoW has figured out how to streamline play and try to reduce the unenjoyable mechanical aspects of the game. Remember, in interviews past the TOR devs even said that they were ripping a lot of WoW for the reasons I've mentioned.

[Obscuras]

See you in WOW soon.

 

Don't be so mad bro, you ain't trolling me.

 

To the above poster, this is the issue though. To me, WoW became pathetic. It became so streamlined the only thing you had to do outside of raiding, was sitting in a city. Everquest was never that way (At least not in the beginning).

 

It baffles me why such a thing is the baseline, when it is such a flawed and terrible system. How would you feel if your single-player games were nothing but short, sweet, and to the point for $60? Beaten within the hour after a long, sludgy experience.

 

At least to me, you play an MMO for that feel of mysticism, to immerse yourself in a world and to enjoy yourself. Not to sit in a city after hitting level cap within a day.

[Corlantis]

I'm curious. What do you get out of starting a thread like this? Does this make you happy?

 

I'm honestly just puzzled at people who are trashing the game when it's just been released. What is this supposed to accomplish?

 

Sorry. I don't get it.

[Truga]

"turn around with the A and D keys"

 

I think I see the problem here

 

Yeah, I see it too. You're bad at the game so you go trolling on the forums instead.

[sevev]

So honestly, I really do want to like this game. And I do think it has some positive features, including Star Wars; I've always like the Star Wars movies. Unfortunately, TOR just feels really old. Even compared to World of Warcraft, which actually is very old (over 7 years now), this feels elderly.

 

The following are some things that make TOR feel old:

 

- No LFG Tool (been in WoW for over 2 years... absolutely baffled as to how this hasn't been developed for TOR yet)

 

- Awful UI; I could make an entire thread about this (and people already have), but for the sake of brevity, I'll just restate that it's awful

 

- Pet AI is horrible, between the delay on commanding their auto attack, their hilarious pathing errors, and many others; it's safe to say giving every Class+Spec a pet was a bad idea, without first giving them AI that's passable in 2011

 

- 2007 graphics (The Skybox being a 2D Painting is particularly insulting)

 

- No Day/Night Cylce

 

- No accessable body of water deeper than 6 inches

 

- Server queues (Had queues in WoW for Vanilla, BC, and Wrath but not Cata, Blizzard has evolved, BioWare has not)

 

- Lackluster Character Creation

 

- Absurd Leveling curve; the overall process of getting from 1-50 is pretty fast, but the curve for time per level increases at a rate that makes me feel like I'm playing Aion again

 

- Three Warzones, No Arenas (also consider Huttball cannot be taken seriously as Rated PvP). Again; TOR is competing with 2011 WoW (8 Battlegrounds, 4 of which can be done Rated + Arena Content)

 

- No Macros

 

- No mouseover casting

 

- No addon support

 

- No Dual Spec

 

- Taris memory leaks (should have been fixed in Beta, not "overnight" a week after Early Access started for the game's release build)

 

- Lack of variety in quests; everything is kill X amount of Y, unlike WoW where they've added a lot of variation (for better or for worse) in the quests, which makes leveling feel less grindy

 

- Voice Actors voicing too many different people; I don't think I've seen this many Characters with the same Voice Actor, since the first Deus Ex game

 

- Player Character repeating Dialogue from other conversations (My Sith Inquisitor has said "I'll show you what a Sith can do!" like 5 times now, and other less memorably rhyming are equally if not more common)

 

- "Choices" are still just the Blue good guy option, or the Red bad guy option — this was kinda new in KOTOR, and still cool in both Mass Effects; but unimpressive today

 

- No Mount until level 25; it only takes a couple hours to get your first Mount in WoW these days. No idea why this was considered a good idea

 

- Awkward gold; having over 500,000 gold by the time you hit 40 is... silly, and will be a major hassle as the game ages and gold inflation occurs

 

- A vast array of technical errors that BioWare, and easily amused Players will chalk up to "Every launch has issues, go play WoW kid!"; but nonetheless detract from gameplay, and are hard to excuse in a 2011 title

 

- No Appearance/Gear Customization such as WoW's Transmogrification, or a standard MMO Appearance Tab (weird in a game where we watch ourselves talk so much)

 

- No Barbershop for minor character recustomization (again, weird in a game where we watch so much of our character speaking)

 

- More — I will expand on this as more things pop into my mind, these are the ones currently at the forefront of my thought process

 

Anyway, do you guys feel the same way? Maybe you don't see the logic in some of my points (but you will once you get to level 40+), but you've probably noticed the game feels old. I'm worried that this feeling will plague the launch, and the early days of the game. This will both turn away new players, and create a jaded community; problems that get worse and worse as time goes on. Hopefully the game can be improved enough though, I do like it.

 

TL;DR, I think TOR feels old, what do you think?

 

 

 

Dude.. what you're sayin is.. I basically want WOW but with light sabers..

 

Stick to wow dude...

 

WOW is still a fun game..

 

There are a lot of people that are enjoying SWTOR for the way it is...

 

A few things need to be solved.. that is all

[Shadysketchy]

This one makes me laugh, simply because the Transmog was in response to the unify colours thing from this game.

 

People have been asking Blizzard to implement an Appearance Tab for WoW, since before TOR even began drawing concept art

[Kirjava]

People have been asking Blizzard to implement an Appearance Tab for WoW, since before TOR even began drawing concept art

 

Then go play WoW.

[Boxcar]

GOO PLAE WOW!!!!!!!!!11!one!!!

[Pashgan]

Indeed. This game could be perfect for 2007th year - but today it look like dinosaur. Only fresh idea I've spotted are companions with full suits + crew skills which can be levelled in background. Meanwhile everything else look like compilation of not-so-perfect ideas from older MMOs. I think I won't play the game after 2-3 character scenarios played because it's too uncomfortable after some of modern/innovative MMOs (example: SWTOR UI and pet's AI is sad joke compared to Rift).

 

TL;DR if it wasn't based on StarWars entourage I wouldn't play it beyond beta.

 

P.S. Also add bikes which cannot be summoned in combat - plainly stupid combined with my toon's ability to enter stealth in combat - with 100% damage resist.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Pashgan

[WLpride]

The first thing I came to that made it feel old was Esselles flashpoint. And that was the last flashpoint I ever did.

[Shadysketchy]

Then go play WoW.

 

Lol what

 

Is that just your default response to anything in which you see the word "WoW", or "Blizzard" mentioned?

 

Let's try to keep this discussion adult, and constructive

[Kjaiao]

/added

/continues to read

/laughs *** off while reading

/thinks this must be a russian troll, those are the best!

[Dianoia]

Sorry, Current developed WoW is the baseline by which other MMO's get judged. It's not like a bunch of noobs made TOR. It's from a AAA studio that's owned by one of the largest game companies in the world.

 

What many of the WoW comparison haters don't seem to get is that these people aren't posting because they love them some WoW so much that they spent money on another game just to troll their forums. There's a lot of people in WoW that like the MMO genre and desperately want to leave. But, they at least expect a baseline experience comparable to what they're playing currently. I'm not talking about 8 years of piled up content. But WoW has figured out how to streamline play and try to reduce the unenjoyable mechanical aspects of the game. Remember, in interviews past the TOR devs even said that they were ripping a lot of WoW for the reasons I've mentioned.

 

If "baseline experience" means feature set, then it's the most outrageous comparison imaginable.

 

Look at the OP's laundry list. That amount of coding is monumental in and of itself.

 

It isn't a fair comparison, because it's totally unrealistic.

[chizhik]

Fair or not, 2011 SWTOR isn't competing against 2004 WoW. It's going against 2011 WoW, 2011 Rift, 2011 LOTRO, Skyrim, ME3, plus any other major MMO or single player release to come in the next year or so.

 

While I don't share all of the OP's concerns and do not have a problem with a more "old school" feel of the game, I do expect at least some 2011 features in my 2011 MMO - a LFG tool of some kind (although preferably NOT of the cross-server variety, at least for the time being), customizable UI, cast on mouseover functionality, and a decent AH UI being the most important. I'll give it a month or two, but if there are no good news on that front, I'll be more than happy to pack my bags and move back to games that let me mod my UI or use addons/stand alone programs to get the data I want, pandas and $90 monocles be damned.

Edited December 23, 2011 by chizhik

[Erenax]

I'm fine with SWTOR competing with the 2011 WoW. That same WoW that is bleeding subscribers every quarter and shows no signs of turning the ship around. If you think Pandas and Pokemon are going to save it, I've got a bridge to sell you.

[Lu_Bei]

Its story driven: no day and night cycle, having weeks pass between two scenes that are supposed to take place within minutes of each other is immersion breaking and discouraging.

 

Its socially driven: no fire and forget grouping options. Are you having trouble finding a group? You must be bad at finding people. Press 'o' and search for classes you're looking for.

 

I didn't bother to read any of your other complaints. Maybe you should have played the last two games in the franchise before assuming what this game would contain. Also, I find it funny that most of these complaints revolve around totally trivial features that boil down to tradition.

 

 

There have been a lot of people posting 'we should all go play wow' threads. You say this game has 2007 graphics (whatever), your game has 2003 graphics.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Lu_Bei

[Shadysketchy]

Its story driven: no day and night cycle, having weeks pass between two scenes that are supposed to take place within minutes of each other is immersion breaking and discouraging.

 

Its socially driven: no fire and forget grouping options. Are you having trouble finding a group? You must be bad at finding people. Press 'o' and search for classes you're looking for.

 

I didn't bother to read any of your other complaints. Maybe you should have played the last two games in the franchise before assuming what this game would contain. Also, I find it funny that most of these complaints revolve around totally trivial features that boil down to tradition.

 

Nah you're right

 

Taris memory leaks = story driven

 

Try reading the thread next time

[Merricks]

But what year model is your car I want a 2012 mod car, not a 2000 mod car.

 

I understand a lot of the things the OP writes down. Have the same feeling. I so want to like this game but all in all it is "just" a good game and nothing more. Nothing impressive about it at all.

 

you sound like a spoiled kid just like the op, maybe you should get together and make a game and then we can sit on your forums and tell you where you went wrong and you need more....

[Biowulf]

Nah you're right

 

Taris memory leaks = story driven

 

Try reading the thread next time

 

 

Taris is fixed.

 

Why keep bringing it up? It was a lousy first few days with it, but it was still playable, and now it's completely fine.

 

Grasping at straws.

[Darth_Eclipses]

Completely agree with the OP.

 

However I actually like TOR - you can't deny that it's old though, and that post 30 you get hit with a truckload of bugs.

 

I've experienced more bugs / design decision flaws in this past week than I EVER did during my 2 1/2 months in beta:

 

* Taris memory leak

* Guild tab bugging

* Guild chat bugged - can't see or type in guild chat or other chats

* Ability and combat non-responsiveness: clicking abilities and watching them do nothing

* Resolve working incorrectly - or not working at all

* No diminishing returns on CC

* Hit boxes screwing up

* Companion bugs galore: AI, Pathing, AOE's constantly turning on over and over again, or simply not spawning at all after you get off your bike or after a cut scene

* Old completed quests sending you reward emails over and over again - some even from 20 levels ago

* Segregated questing areas making Open World PvP almost non-existent

* No rewards for open world pvp

* No brackets in WZ pvp

* Raid frames in WZs bugged as all hell

* LOS issues galore: can't heal a friendly with a waist level cargo crate in between you, as you 'cannot see target'

* Repetitive, uncreative mission system: kill 25 of this, kill 135 of that (yes there are kill 135 bonus missions)

 

I could go on and on

 

I like TOR and will sub to it for a while - but it is really out dated no doubt.

[Marcuspasnicus]

With all the "Whaa this isnt wow" threads out there, how did this one get so big???

 

I tend to agree with the OP although I love this game.

 

I think the problem he and alot are having is that they are bored and over MMO's in general and they were hoping SWTOR would save them but its still just an MMO

[Lu_Bei]

Nah you're right

 

Taris memory leaks = story driven

 

Try reading the thread next time

 

Massive list of complaints and you razz me over the one thing I didn't mention? The one thing I haven't seen or experienced, despite having been on Taris?

[chizhik]

I'm fine with SWTOR competing with the 2011 WoW. That same WoW that is bleeding subscribers every quarter and shows no signs of turning the ship around. If you think Pandas and Pokemon are going to save it, I've got a bridge to sell you.

 

The same WoW that paid for itself many times over. The same old WoW that can bleed every last sub, go F2P and still laugh all the way to the bank... I'm willing to bet it'll be around. I only wish I could be so sure about SWTOR, a 2011 game launching with incomplete game mechanics borrowed from 2006 WoW. If in addition to their excellent solo game they manage to get the MMO part right (and I sure hope they do), it has a shot. If they don't, it's F2P with an item shop in a year.

[Erenax]

I think the OP was just looking for WoW in Space, and when that wasn't what he got, voiced his opinion that the game should just be WoW in Space. I'd play a Gnome Bounty Hunter, how about you guys?