I Want To Like TOR, But It Just Feels Old

[Gaff]

You're going to get a lot of hate for comparing the game to WoW, but honestly, the developers have been trying to compare themselves to WoW so it's all relevant.

 

You hit on a lot of great points OP. I'm just not enjoying myself at the moment. Particularly with the UI, overload of kill x and y quests, leveling curve, unpolished combat/talent system, and especially the character creator and graphics. I tabbed through all of the endgame armors yesterday and just lost all motivation... they look terrible. It's like they threw out all of the brilliant concept art they had going on during the development cycle and slapped stuff together. Doesn't help that all of the textures are in low resolution.

 

The "this is launch" excuse is not applicable now. There has been so much innovation in this industry to this point that SWTOR cannot be held to the same standards that MMOs could 10 years ago.

 

Perhaps it will get better with age like most things. It's just disappointing that it wasn't given enough "umph" out of the gate.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Gaff

[CyberData]

But they evolved it. How many years do you think it tuck mankind to find out how to use electricity? Now we expect BioWare to improve on the MMO gender. Something they have not done. SWToR is just an normal MMO as everything ells that is out today. Except from it is named Star Wars. We must not forget that. Just the name alone makes the game automatically a huge evolvement in the gender. "oh, there is nothing new in the game compered to many years of game developement, wait, it is Star Wars, then it is OK.

 

Listen, WoW had 12 million subscribers. Twelve million. I'm going to come right out and say it: This game will NOT be hitting that number. Period. Dot. The. End.

 

Sorry folks.

 

Now, that's not to say it's not going to be an extremely profitable endeavor for EA and their subsidiary, Bioware. WoW changed the game. It changed the very definition of what a successful MMO could be. This has been a double edged sword for the industry. On one had it's a cool game and did cool things to build the genre. But on the other hand it's been so CRAZY successful that no company in their right might is going to risk straying from the paradigm that Blizzard set. I'm talking in terms of game design.

 

WoW is a themepark MMO.

TOR is a themepark MMO.

 

They tried sandbox, it was called SWG. We all know how THAT went. Oh wait, that's right...it bled all its subs because WoW was so successful they did a stop-and-switch trying to immitate that. As I said...double edged sword.

 

To me, the most innovative aspect of this game is the story and the presentation of it via cutscenes. Nothing unheard of. Even in an MMO, but the presentation is top notch.

 

Welcome to what Blizzard did to the genre. Get use to it.

[DarthMinimus]

So basically you want 7 years' worth of polish in a brand new MMO? A brand new MMO imo that does so many things so well at launch that I can only imagine how great it will be in 7 years.

 

So please, don't subscribe and keep playing WoW.

[Seismax]

I don't agree with the OP on a lot of points being needed to make the game good, but imo the game does feel dated.

 

I'm not asking for much, but a responsive UI that doesn't constantly fail to allow me to use my non-gcd skills(Why oh why does it need to be called GCD? Rip off WoW some more please), or a fluid combat system that doesn't depend on more keybinds than the game is setup to support, heck even some customization/resizing options would go a long ways towards making me feel comfortable while playing this "New" game.

[bjiceman]

A select few responses I disagee with:

 

- No LFG Tool (been in WoW for over 2 years... absolutely baffled as to how this hasn't been developed for TOR yet)

 

I have yet to have a situation where I really needed this.

 

- Awful UI; I could make an entire thread about this (and people already have), but for the sake of brevity, I'll just restate that it's awful

 

Room for improvement? Yes. Awlful? Hardly.

 

- 2007 graphics (The Skybox being a 2D Painting is particularly insulting)

 

Show me an MMO that has amazing graphics that is trying to reach this broad of a fan base. Playing on max and it looks georgous.

 

- No Day/Night Cylce

 

LOL really? How often does anyone look at the sky anyway...

 

- Server queues (Had queues in WoW for Vanilla, BC, and Wrath but not Cata, Blizzard has evolved, BioWare has not)

 

WoW queues are lessening. Doesn't this tell you something?

 

- Lackluster Character Creation

 

Who cares? It's all about how you look in gear anyway.

 

- Absurd Leveling curve; the overall process of getting from 1-50 is pretty fast, but the curve for time per level increases at a rate that makes me feel like I'm playing Aion again

 

If someone can get to 50 in two days, is there really a curve?

 

No Arenas

 

Arenas were just a way to get gear if you couldn't raid.

 

- No Macros

- No addon support

- No Dual Spec

 

Good

 

- Lack of variety in quests; everything is kill X amount of Y, unlike WoW where they've added a lot of variation (for better or for worse) in the quests, which makes leveling feel less grindy

 

You must be playing a different game than I. I rarely do kill quests as they are mostly the bonus quests.

 

- Voice Actors voicing too many different people; I don't think I've seen this many Characters with the same Voice Actor, since the first Deus Ex game

- Player Character repeating Dialogue from other conversations (My Sith Inquisitor has said "I'll show you what a Sith can do!" like 5 times now, and other less memorably rhyming are equally if not more common)

 

Seeing how no other game even tried this, these aren't valid arguments.

 

- "Choices" are still just the Blue good guy option, or the Red bad guy option — this was kinda new in KOTOR, and still cool in both Mass Effects; but unimpressive today

 

There are many "grey" choices that yeild neigher light nor dark side.

 

- No Mount until level 25; it only takes a couple hours to get your first Mount in WoW these days. No idea why this was considered a good idea

 

I lol'd at this one. They give you a mount earlier now in WoW because they WANT you to skip the early game content.

 

- Awkward gold; having over 500,000 gold by the time you hit 40 is... silly, and will be a major hassle as the game ages and gold inflation occurs

 

Now I know you're trolling as there isn't even gold in this game.

 

- A vast array of technical errors that BioWare, and easily amused Players will chalk up to "Every launch has issues, go play WoW kid!"; but nonetheless detract from gameplay, and are hard to excuse in a 2011 title

 

There are as many bugs in this game as there currently are in any WoW Patch / Expansion. "Looking for Raid" tool anyone?

 

 

I'm sorry that this game isn't the WoW 2.0 that you were hoping for, but I for one am glad that it isn't.

[Neeseek]

OP, read my sig and get out. Edited December 21, 2011 by Neeseek

[GHeissi]

So you took the good features out of a game that only interested you for 20 minutes and used them to bash TOR?

.....

........

................

................................ cool.

 

From a technical perspective, Rift had a lot of perfect features and aspects at launch. So aside from the queues and class balancing issues, it was fascinating how polished it looked at launch.

 

They claim that they designed a capable platform for developing and and modifying such things in MMOs efficiently and use it for their upcoming MMORTS End of Nations as well.

 

It's sad that the new iteration of hotkey MMOs tends to go a step back.

 

But well, that's my opinion.

[Kalendel]

Listen, WoW had 12 million subscribers. Twelve million. I'm going to come right out and say it: This game will NOT be hitting that number. Period. Dot. The. End.

 

Sorry folks.

 

In all fairness, no MMO again will ever hit those numbers, WoW included. They`ve already lost 2 million and will continue to lose as more and more MMOs come out. I`m not saying they`re dead or anything that dramatic, but even with Pandaria coming out, they won`t hit 12 million again. WoW hit the market at the right time and with the right mindset and was fantastically successful. We will never see a MMO that successful again because everything hereafter will follow that mindset.

[Seismax]

This game is too much like Wow. Game is fail.

This game is not enough like Wow. Game is fail.

 

- The Excuse of every TOR hater, which one is it?

 

It's both, it directly copies wow at a lot of things, and does it WORSE than wow.

[CyberData]

Problem is that people like you would not even care if the whole game where bugged like hell and missing a ton of content, like AoC. And if someone complained about it, you would flame him to the ground. As long as it is Star Wars everything is OK.

No questions ask, no requirements or expectations. If SWToR where release with the same graphic as WoW had in 2004, you would be as happy as ever.

 

If the game released with a UI as WoW had in 2004, oh, wait. They have an even wors UI then WoW had in 2004.

See what I mean? All you say is "the game is 1 day old". You guys have no expectations exept for that the game has to be named "star wars".

 

Disagreeing is not flaming. We can disagree without being disagreeable. My point stands.

 

The game has been release slightly longer than a day. This isn't my first Rodeo, MMOs take a few good patches to get the good stuff rolling.

 

The problems exist. I've pointed some out. The UI does need work, I'm not arguing otherwise.

 

And yes, I do have expectations. They're just grounded in reality. Not in my own fantasy world where an MMO releases with NO bugs, NO performance issues. NO design issues that need to be worked on.

 

I've said in multiple threads that the UI needs to be worked on. And I believe it will be, in time. Game development takes time, dude. I really don't know what else to tell you. They had to prioritize and even though you might not want to hear it, and they'll NEVER concede this publicly...sometimes broken crap is used as a placeholder till it get revamped later. Sony did it. Blizzard did it. Every MMO I've ever played at launch did it.

 

Why are you shocked? If the core of the game doesn't appeal to you, that's ok. It doesn't make you "wrong" or me "right".

 

People have different tastes, different standards, different expectations. I expect certain things to be worked out in time.

 

If not, I may very well be right where you are in 8-10 months.

[Neeseek]

It's both, it directly copies wow at a lot of things, and does it WORSE than wow.

 

Like what?

 

 

go into specifics.

 

 

Questing and PVP is already miles ahead than current WoW, WoW had the edge in this department from TBC to WOTLk.. but Cataclysm was a disaster.

[Mamono]

So basically you want 7 years' worth of polish in a brand new MMO? A brand new MMO imo that does so many things so well at launch that I can only imagine how great it will be in 7 years.

 

So please, don't subscribe and keep playing WoW.

 

What is wrong about learning from other games development? You HAVE to see what your counterparts are doing and try to best that.

Blizzard have 7 years yes, but BioWare will ALSO have thous 7 years. They are there for everyone to behold and inspect. Everyone who wants to make an MMO can look at what blizzard have improved in 7 years.

When making a new MMO you try to improve on what is old. Not making things "old" then improve later.

[harkain]

He doesn't want WoW. He wants the features normally found in a modern MMORPG.

 

stop lying.

 

he wants specific features from wow thats not common place nor are they some sort of industry standard.

 

There are several "features" like macros, addons and lfg that he wants that are highly disputable at best, alot of bws customerbase came here to get AWAY from just those bullcrap product features.

 

so in essence: yes go back to wow (seem to work for you to) if your want list is a copy paste from another mmo then its better you play that mmo and leave this mmo to develop in its unique direction otherwise this game will be turned into rift in a heartbeat.

[djsmileey]

I'm here because I want TOR to be good, so I can keep playing it

 

Pretty sure I said that in the OP

 

If that were really true your post wouldn't read like a Michael Moore movie.

 

Full of pointless, off the wall facts pulled together to make it seem like a giant conspiracy.

 

If you truly wanted the game to be good, it would be posted in the proper forums, not in the general discussion to cause hate and discontent.

 

This is a troll, stop trying to mask it with something else.

[WakeZero]

I love how people are so critical. Complaining about not having all the features of a game that has been out for SEVEN YEARS with 100+ patches baffles me. I played World of Warcraft since beta, and let me tell you, it was a hell of a lot worse at launch then this game.

 

Do I want a lot of the features to be implemented from WoW I've come to enjoy? Of course. But I also understand it takes time to develop. Chill out peeps.

 

I'm personally loving the game so far.

[Kalendel]

Problem is that people like you would not even care if the whole game where bugged like hell and missing a ton of content, like AoC. And if someone complained about it, you would flame him to the ground. As long as it is Star Wars everything is OK.

No questions ask, no requirements or expectations. If SWToR where release with the same graphic as WoW had in 2004, you would be as happy as ever.

 

If the game released with a UI as WoW had in 2004, oh, wait. They have an even wors UI then WoW had in 2004.

See what I mean? All you say is "the game is 1 day old". You guys have no expectations exept for that the game has to be named "star wars".

 

It`s not quite that simplistic. Admittedly, my requirements for graphics in an MMO that has to be playable on many different computer builds are low. My requirements for UI are low. I like the game to have storyline and good gameplay. I believe TOR has both. It`s not the Star Wars name, nor am I oblivious to the glitches, but I`m also not blind to the issues and glitches that every other MMO has had and that many STILL have after every patch they do. You value UI and graphics, I don`t. It`s a difference in opinion and values, not a case of right and wrong.

[BlakeTheSnake]

Problem is that people like you would not even care if the whole game where bugged like hell and missing a ton of content, like AoC. And if someone complained about it, you would flame him to the ground. As long as it is Star Wars everything is OK.

No questions ask, no requirements or expectations. If SWToR where release with the same graphic as WoW had in 2004, you would be as happy as ever.

 

If the game released with a UI as WoW had in 2004, oh, wait. They have an even wors UI then WoW had in 2004.

See what I mean? All you say is "the game is 1 day old". You guys have no expectations exept for that the game has to be named "star wars".

 

No. No one would be "happy" with 2004 graphics. Look a little more closely at the graphics in this game and the games environment with everything turned up. It looks fantastic.

 

Moving on...

 

It's not like what you're saying at all. The people who love a game are often it's most critical...and constructive. It's the guys that flame and troll with nothing constructive that get burned to the ground by the "fanboi'z."

 

I'm also sick of hearing that this game didn't "evolve" the genre in any way and did absolutely nothing innovative. Are you all crazy? I don't understand...how many people are playing this game with horse blinders on and black paint on their eyes?

 

Many pepole have spent a lot of time nicely writing out all of the great innovations the game has and sheer level of polish to the more standard systems so I don't need to do that here. I'd rather just name a few:

 

-Full Voice over multi-option dialogue for every single quest in the game.

-The ability for your friend to remotely "call" in to cinematic quest dialogue and participate

-Beautiful level of polish on the look and animations of abilities and the synchroniztion of damage applied to animation applied. It's awesome...

-Allowing crafting/harvesting/mission skills to CHANGE or impact a DUNGEON by opening multiple paths or altering the course of the dungeon (Flashpoint).

-Re-introduction of Crowd control combat that maintains fluidity and responsiveness.

-Scaleable graphics platform that allows them to increase the quality without sacrificing much at all in terms of performance (You can see this with comparrison videos from 2008 to 2011 production improvements in graphic quality).

-Companion Characters that you not only interact with but that can assist you throughout the game in a variety of ways.

-Having a crafting system that allows you to improve and work on it while being out leveling, pvping, or w/e else you choose to do.

-Arcade space rail shooter - Sure not everyone loves this but it's a fun aside. It's still an innovation in the MMO genre - It's not been done. (And I don't mean Space combat hasn't been done; I mean THIS type of space combat hasn't beent added to an MMO before).

-Having not only Open world PvP, instanced PvP with warzones but also having a dedicated, constantly running PvP planet with objectives and base capture? Sure it's been done...but not in some of the more "coveted" MMOs out there and it's GREAT to have it back!

 

C'mon guys...Sure there are things not to like, and work still to be done but good grief what they have is simply awesome! How can so many vocal people overlook so much? =)

Edited December 21, 2011 by BlakeTheSnake

[Mamono]

A select few responses I disagee with:

 

 

 

I have yet to have a situation where I really needed this.

 

 

 

Room for improvement? Yes. Awlful? Hardly.

 

 

 

Show me an MMO that has amazing graphics that is trying to reach this broad of a fan base. Playing on max and it looks georgous.

 

 

 

LOL really? How often does anyone look at the sky anyway...

 

 

 

WoW queues are lessening. Doesn't this tell you something?

 

 

 

Who cares? It's all about how you look in gear anyway.

 

 

 

If someone can get to 50 in two days, is there really a curve?

 

 

 

Arenas were just a way to get gear if you couldn't raid.

 

 

 

Good

 

 

 

You must be playing a different game than I. I rarely do kill quests as they are mostly the bonus quests.

 

 

 

Seeing how no other game even tried this, these aren't valid arguments.

 

 

 

There are many "grey" choices that yeild neigher light nor dark side.

 

 

 

I lol'd at this one. They give you a mount earlier now in WoW because they WANT you to skip the early game content.

 

 

 

Now I know you're trolling as there isn't even gold in this game.

 

 

 

There are as many bugs in this game as there currently are in any WoW Patch / Expansion. "Looking for Raid" tool anyone?

 

 

I'm sorry that this game isn't the WoW 2.0 that you were hoping for, but I for one am glad that it isn't.

 

This is a perfect example of a fanboy. Nothing is bad with SWToR. If the game crashed for 12 hours a day, it would be fine. Nothing can be wrong with a Star Wars game.

There does not exist any games or MMOs that has anything done better then SWToR.

 

Critisisem is blasphemer.

[WarTornPanda]

You are gonna get flamed to **** for this post. But... It is true. Sadly.

 

Yep.

 

5

[BrimstoneAshe]

I disagree with some of your points.

 

-Quest variety. While i agree that having the variety would have made the game less grindy, and alot better, I can't think of a triple A mmo with a huge variety. You could say WoW, but to be fair, they only added variety last year with cata. 6 years they had of no variety.

 

 

I disagree. The variety came in WoTLK. Need examples?

 

Howling Fjord: The Big Lebowski quest line as I call it. But you had some quests to learn how to use that harvestor thing and then you had a quest to use it to go down into the quarry and collect some shards. You used the runes to launch you from platform to platform. Also had the quest where you had to hop in the gyrochopper, shoot down some gargoyles, pickup some stuff with the grappling hook and put it in a designated spot.

 

Sholozar Basin: Had the quest where you were on the shoulder of that titan looking dude and you stopping and smashing undead. The quest where you and Hemit Nessingwary where on the mammoth taking out the Queen Protodrake.

 

Storm Peaks: Remember the quest where you had to leap from proto drake to proto drake and take out their riders? Remember the quest of getting on the polar bear and having a battle in the pits? Remember the Hodir daily of spearing a drake and trying to kill it while keeping it from crunching on you while you flew over the zone?

 

These are just few of many many quests WoTLK had. Granted, at the end of the day you were still clicking your mouse and pressing an ability on a hotbar, but it gave you the illusion you were doing something different. Maybe this didn't work for some people, but it worked for me and I would like to see this sort of diversity in SWTOR.

 

I can imagine some ideas already in the Star Wars universe and using concepts seen in like the Force Unleashed series combined with some mechanics used in Witcher 2 that would create some really exiting moments in the game.

[Shadysketchy]

It's been out a day.

 

I've been playing since Early Access Day 1

[Semihages]

You want to talk about non combat mechanics?

 

How about the fact the fact that even though space combat is a rail shooter, there is no doubt in my mind it blows away every vehicle combat in WoW.

 

Name ONE WoW vehicle combat that's more fun that SWTOR's space combat.

[bjiceman]

This is a perfect example of a fanboy. Nothing is bad with SWToR. If the game crashed for 12 hours a day, it would be fine. Nothing can be wrong with a Star Wars game.

There does not exist any games or MMOs that has anything done better then SWToR.

 

Critisisem is blasphemer.

 

Man... learn to read my 1st sentence. I only responded to the things I disagreed with.

 

Typical WoW fanboy. Can't even read...

[Yenkin]

It is interesting how fast we get the QQ from the hard-core games, who can't enjoy the game, or story lines because they need to be hand held to find groups, or have a damage meter or mods to show cool downs etc....

 

How about just enjoy the game for what it is a romp through the star wars galaixy, No its not hard core, the game has a casual feel and that is fine with me. I don't need to be th one to do everything first, I don't need all the uber equipment to make me better than everyone else, I have not even decided on a class I like the play, so far all my three classes are more or less the same level. I am in no rush to get to the end game since there is not much of an endgame at the momment. Not everygame has a LFG tool, through at this time I think RIFT has the best model for LFG, it premakes groups based on your speck, you get 1 tank, 2 dps, 1 support 1 healer as a standard group.

[Kalendel]

I disagree. The variety came in WoTLK. Need examples?

 

Howling Fjord: The Big Lebowski quest line as I call it. But you had some quests to learn how to use that harvestor thing and then you had a quest to use it to go down into the quarry and collect some shards. You used the runes to launch you from platform to platform. Also had the quest where you had to hop in the gyrochopper, shoot down some gargoyles, pickup some stuff with the grappling hook and put it in a designated spot.

 

Sholozar Basin: Had the quest where you were on the shoulder of that titan looking dude and you stopping and smashing undead. The quest where you and Hemit Nessingwary where on the mammoth taking out the Queen Protodrake.

 

Storm Peaks: Remember the quest where you had to leap from proto drake to proto drake and take out their riders? Remember the quest of getting on the polar bear and having a battle in the pits? Remember the Hodir daily of spearing a drake and trying to kill it while keeping it from crunching on you while you flew over the zone?

 

These are just few of many many quests WoTLK had. Granted, at the end of the day you were still clicking your mouse and pressing an ability on a hotbar, but it gave you the illusion you were doing something different. Maybe this didn't work for some people, but it worked for me and I would like to see this sort of diversity in SWTOR.

 

I can imagine some ideas already in the Star Wars universe and using concepts seen in like the Force Unleashed series combined with some mechanics used in Witcher 2 that would create some really exiting moments in the game.

 

It`s still only a handful of original quests in the entire leveling experience. There was still a ton of go kill x of y quests for every one of the original ones. And, again, that came 2 expansions later. Now, if it takes 2 expansions for TOR to make some more interesting quests, then I`ll agree with you. The difference is that WoW had to find diversity in quests because it had nothing else. TOR finds diversity in the interactions. Neither one is going to get you away from kill x of y, but it`s a small diversion.