Solo Queue Should Be Truly Solo...

[Zunayson]

You named two of them, those being voice chat and team composition. The third advantage is team cohesion. Each of these provide a significant advantage on there own, and by combining all three the advantage gained by premade teams is substantial.

 

Voice chat is the only legitimate complaint about premades; saying that premades are a combination of skilled players is invalid. Of course they're more skilled. That's why they beat you. There's no magical advantage, they're just better. As for team composition, I think you mean heals/tank/DPS. Once again, this is a strategic (aka skill) way to win. You have no reason you cannot field respec.

 

It really just boils down to voice chat in aided communication. The fact that players that group up are generally better is NO reason to say it gives them an unfair advantage.

 

TL;DR I lost a pug v pug match. I must've been at a disadvantage because the other team was better and won. <-- sounds stupid

[Doomsdaycomes]

You named two of them, those being voice chat and team composition. The third advantage is team cohesion. Each of these provide a significant advantage on there own, and by combining all three the advantage gained by premade teams is substantial.

 

I stated voice chat, nothing about composition.

 

There is nothing in a Premade besides voice chat that can not be found in a PuG. The rest is arguing semantics about probabilities.

[Doomsdaycomes]

I really don't care one way or the other, with regard to premades rolling pugs, but you can't be serious here. Have you not ever played objective-based PvP with a premade group of like-minded players on Vent/TS/Mumble with each other? The resulting ROFLstomp is resounding, to say the least. Premades have a HUGE advantage, to say the least.

 

P.S. Again, i'm not against premades in regular WZs, just replying to this post...which seems a bit naive to be completely honest.

 

Why is everyone obsessed about the word huge.

 

Again, besides voice chat there is no 'advantage' a Premade claims that a PuG can not have. The rest is a semantics battle about probability.

 

(Which would be solved by matchmaking btw).

Edited July 15, 2013 by Doomsdaycomes

[Exly]

I stated voice chat, nothing about composition.

 

There is nothing in a Premade besides voice chat that can not be found in a PuG. The rest is arguing semantics about probabilities.

 

Sorry, to me a proper matchmaking system would aid in the process of grouping players into better composed teams. If you only meant that the matchmaking system would group players by players skill or gear or something like that then I stand corrected.

[Exly]

Voice chat is the only legitimate complaint about premades; saying that premades are a combination of skilled players is invalid. Of course they're more skilled. That's why they beat you. There's no magical advantage, they're just better. As for team composition, I think you mean heals/tank/DPS. Once again, this is a strategic (aka skill) way to win. You have no reason you cannot field respec.

 

It really just boils down to voice chat in aided communication. The fact that players that group up are generally better is NO reason to say it gives them an unfair advantage.

 

TL;DR I lost a pug v pug match. I must've been at a disadvantage because the other team was better and won. <-- sounds stupid

 

I get it, if you do not agree with the complaint it is not legitimate. As to your assertion that they are just better, l say let them prove it by either queuing solo or queuing for ranked warzones. In other words, let them play without even the perception that they have an advantage and then see if they are really that good.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Exly

[Exly]

Why is everyone obsessed about the word huge.

 

Again, besides voice chat there is no 'advantage' a Premade claims that a PuG can not have. The rest is a semantics battle about probability.

 

(Which would be solved by matchmaking btw).

 

I guess that the reason is because of they have a huge advantage.

[DarthRaika]

The advantage is choosing your team. You can choose all of the advantages that we have discussed. If you don't see this then you are most likely fooling yourself (only other possible reason is that you are extremely stupid). So ask yourself why do you need to fool yourself.

[Sarielle]

Have you not ever played objective-based PvP with a premade group of like-minded players on Vent/TS/Mumble with each other?

 

If you play with each other often, most convo ends up being:

 

"We doing our normal thing?"

"Yup."

"OK."

<cap objective>

"I'll stay and call inc." ( which also involves typing in chat for the pug component)

"K."

<rest cap second objective which chatting about other stuff>

 

I'm not saying I never say, "Please get So and so off me" or anything, but a good "pug premade" (just join up with good people you stumble across) can be very coordinated without voice. I'm sure it's different in ranked, but regular WZs it's easy enough to do without voice.

[DustomaticGXC]

If you play with each other often, most convo ends up being:

 

"We doing our normal thing?"

"Yup."

"OK."

<cap objective>

"I'll stay and call inc." ( which also involves typing in chat for the pug component)

"K."

<rest cap second objective which chatting about other stuff>

 

I'm not saying I never say, "Please get So and so off me" or anything, but a good "pug premade" (just join up with good people you stumble across) can be very coordinated without voice. I'm sure it's different in ranked, but regular WZs it's easy enough to do without voice.

 

This isn't true. Most of the time the convo ends up being wiener jokes.

[stupidsyrup]

I gotta throw this out here and it may end this thread. Click "Queue Group". Check Chat Box. It says "So and So has queued for warzones solo". On each group member too! So technically, everyone in the group is in your so-called "Solo queue"

[DeadDogBarking]

I'm about a 75% player who had to start as a very bad and work my way up. I played a new 55 in 2 war zones the other day and stuck it out and the only people who earned any comms where the backfills with one. So now I know to never stay in a war zone against adversity because even trying to get comms to buy good gear is not rewarded. My new dailies include going to outlaws den and switching instances to collect the medals from the chests (while allowed). before folks use their massive 2 word vocabulary of l2p and noob, this same toon with entry level gear is usually getting in top 65-75% of charts and I see what I need to work on. I guess in prison and pvp when your friends all leave the shower you better go with them or it will get ugly.

[Exly]

I gotta throw this out here and it may end this thread. Click "Queue Group". Check Chat Box. It says "So and So has queued for warzones solo". On each group member too! So technically, everyone in the group is in your so-called "Solo queue"

 

Ok, I will concede to your point that there is only one queue for regular warzones, but this thread is about separating the queues, so I don't see how your statement would do anything to end it.

[stupidsyrup]

Ok, I will concede to your point that there is only one queue for regular warzones, but this thread is about separating the queues, so I don't see how your statement would do anything to end it.

 

The point is, there is no need for a seperate queue, when technically everyone solo queues anyways.

[Pistols]

#wereupallnighttogetlucky

[Lachryphage]

When I queue up as solo, I expect to verse other people who also queued up as solo...is that too much to ask? Why is it the system doesn't prioritize matching solo players with other players, and then purely solo teams with other solo teams? It just seems silly to me for an entirely solo team to be paired against a full premade.

You do know that the MM in MMORPG stands for massively multiplayer, right? Get some friends and play with them, aspie. That's the whole point of this being an online game.

[Arkerus]

Is there anything in game that indicates queue'ing solo means it is a solo queue?

 

False expectations are simply false.

 

However if you'd like to discuss this there's another thread on the forum about it already. Most people in it generally agree there needs to be a split between highly competitive players and those less competitive. A matchmaking system of some sorts that actually... matches like with like.

 

Premades are Ruining Regular Warzones

 

WoW

 

/5char

[Aelaias]

You ****heads defending pug farming sound pathetic and defensive. Afraid your low hanging fruit will be taken away? No need, I doubt biofailers are even aware that this is an issue for many of their clients.

[Zunayson]

I get it, if you do not agree with the complaint it is not legitimate. As to your assertion that they are just better, l say let them prove it by either queuing solo or queuing for ranked warzones. In other words, let them play without even the perception that they have an advantage and then see if they are really that good.

 

MMO skill comes from the ability to play with a teammate well (That is, it is a team game). However, to achieve the full peak of one's performance, it requires a willing and (optimally) equally skilled player. A team in this kind of team game is only as strong (in most cases) as the worst of the team. A team of runners is only as fast as the slowest, unless they forget him.

 

A good analogy is when I used to play little league baseball. Of course every parent puts their children in it, so most people are bad. By my third year I had figured out how to actually play, and of course some people didn't. In order to "balance out the teams," as certain players got better, the coaches compensated by putting baddies on their teams. Yes, at tryouts I can catch a ball the coach threw because the coach can throw. If the coach had the throwing capabilities of a baddie then he'd see I cannot catch a ball going the opposite direction. Yes, I can throw the ball to the coach and make a play because the coach can catch. Throw in the lack of ability of one of the baddies, and it doesn't matter how well I throw, if he can't catch.

 

Playing baseball, I had a similar experience as I do now at some of these pugs.

 

TL;DR bad pugs will be bad. And regardless of whatever personal skill I posses a mediocre team against me will almost always be better than four extremely good players and four dead weight players, this is only assuming that the average of a dead weight and the extremely skilled in this case comes out to be the same as a mediocre player.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Zunayson

[Crawelc]

You solo que folks shouldn't be so hard on yourselves. You'll figure out how to break 100k if you stick with it.

[Kawiki]

TL;DR bad pugs will be bad. And regardless of whatever personal skill I posses a mediocre team against me will almost always be better than four extremely good players and four dead weight players, this is only assuming that the average of a dead weight and the extremely skilled in this case comes out to be the same as a mediocre player.

 

This is completly inaccurate. I'm not trying to be a dick, but 4 "stars" (to use your sports metaphor) and 4 scrubs is significantly better then 8 average players even if their individual combined skill equals. I know it doesn't make sense on the surface but sports teams have been following this approach for years. It is much better to have a star or two and the rest below average players then a team full of average players.

 

Let's take your throwing ball example. Let's assume the star player throws perfectly to a bad. While the "bad" may drop the ball, the bad has a significantly higher chance to actually catch the perfectly thrown ball then he does just an average thrown ball or a far far worse chance on a poorly thrown ball.

 

Get It?

 

tldr: A team of 4 stars and 4 bads will almost always beat a team of 8 average players. Thats why I laugh at premades that say "the other 4 brought us down". WRONG, you are just not as good as you thought.

[Jadescythe]

You ****heads defending pug farming sound pathetic and defensive. Afraid your low hanging fruit will be taken away? No need, I doubt biofailers are even aware that this is an issue for many of their clients.

 

You people who fail to comprehend the simplest of arguments need to keep your terrible opinions to yourself.

 

"Pug farming" wouldn't be a thing if some PUGs weren't so bad. If you put the best sports team in whatever sport you like the most up against 8 random people you just found, they will destroy them. The argument being made is that if you take the best sports team and put them up against the worst sports team, the same result will follow. Ergo, the group isn't the problem, the level of skill is.

[Kawiki]

You people who fail to comprehend the simplest of arguments need to keep your terrible opinions to yourself.

 

"Pug farming" wouldn't be a thing if some PUGs weren't so bad. If you put the best sports team in whatever sport you like the most up against 8 random people you just found, they will destroy them. The argument being made is that if you take the best sports team and put them up against the worst sports team, the same result will follow. Ergo, the group isn't the problem, the level of skill is.

 

Right I agree. It's why every sport has various levels.....

 

Eliminating Groups froms solo queue would only partially solve the problem, true match making is the only real answer. But if match making is not an option then separating the queue is the only real option. OR just a simpe process where 2 4 man groups get "first priority" to play each other would somewhat allievate the problem.

[Jadescythe]

Right I agree. It's why every sport has various levels.....

 

Eliminating Groups froms solo queue would only partially solve the problem, true match making is the only real answer. But if match making is not an option then separating the queue is the only real option. OR just a simpe process where 2 4 man groups get "first priority" to play each other would somewhat allievate the problem.

 

You're right, if matchmaking couldn't happen then solo queue would be a band-aid fix for the time being. The issue is that the problems that happen now will continue to be problems in a solo queue (and even with matchmaking to a lesser degree). So, with skill based matchmaking being a better solution, it won't function properly without a large-ish player pool. Meaning that segmenting the population would actually be harmful.

 

I'm not going too deep into this topic in yet another thread, but if you're pro matchmaking then I'm on your side.

[cashogy_reborn]

the sports analogies are not accurate at all......

 

this is a video game with an obscenely low skill cap on all styles of play. once you learn the fundamentals, there really is not much more to learn.

 

the problem with this game is that most people still dont understand the fundamentals.

 

 

sports have incredibly high skill caps.

[Floplag]

It's not BioWare's fault you lack the social ability to join a guild, make virtual friends, or even ask general chat for a group....let alone make real friends (which is why you have the time to whine on the forums).

 

This response is the worst kind of tripe..

 

Perhaps its on the other foot, and you don't have the skills or ability to stand on your own and need a full team and voice comms to beat up people that don't? But im sure that never occurred to you.

 

preamdes in pug WZs is a joke, it doesn't belong... whether or not the other person has the means to put together a full team or not isn't the issue.. the issue is why don't you take your team to rateds rather than beating up those that have no chance from the start?