Cross healing is ridiculous

[waterboytkd]

Just did a match...over 900k damage (not AoE spec either, all targeted), only 3 kills and 1 death. Thankfully I had a good healer on my team, too...

 

Matches without deaths are just not that fun.

[Frankenseuss]

Unfortunately there's nothing that can be done with the current matchmaking system. Just like a big group of dps wipes the floor with everything, a group of healers prevents anything from dying. The thing is, we can MAKE it better by respeccing in warzones to balanced teams. One tank, two healers, five dps. This would make things better, in my opinion.

[RyderQuanTy]

Pvp right now is terrible. I almost never log in and play anymore the match I just played was all cross heals A frustrating reminder of why not to play. They need to add trauma to a relics and put power or crit into wz adrenaline

[waterboytkd]

That, or drill PvP healing via Expertise. Or create a new PvP debuff. Have certain powers (the healing powers that Sages/Commandos/Scoundrels and imp equivalents get) set up a debuff on the caster that makes them resistant or immune to other healers. Something. I don't know exactly what, but something needs to be done.

[cashogy_reborn]

part of the problem with healing is that it already out does DPS, even 1v1. just straight up DPS v HPS, one healer can negate ~2 very good DPSers (not taking into account interrupt/CC/etc so dont jump down my throat).

 

burst damage is down a lot, in part bc of the change to crit %. sustained damage is greater, but so is sustained healing. burst is what allows players to overcome healing in windows of opportunity. no burst, good luck killing a good healer.

 

 

how do you fix that? idk.

 

 

another part of the problem is that the objectives in this game (other than huttball) seemed based around much faster paced combat than we currently have. look at RWZ: capping in AHG, ACW, NC and VS are incredibly difficult. imo is a lack of vision in game design. removing respecing from WZs will be a start to fixing that imo

[Darth_Acherus]

Easy fix, nerf the living hell out of healers. At least back to where they use to be at 50.

[ArielaKnight]

Not an easy fix as some may think.

 

You complain that you want healing or something else nerf because of pvp but you also forget that when they do that it hurts pve for flashpoints and operations as well.

 

So if they nerf healing to what some of you want then it will hurt healers in operation and flashpoints.

 

Maybe instead of yelling all the time about nerfing something you come up with a better soluation that doesn't effect pve when you complain about something in pvp.

[waterboytkd]

Not an easy fix as some may think.

 

You complain that you want healing or something else nerf because of pvp but you also forget that when they do that it hurts pve for flashpoints and operations as well.

 

So if they nerf healing to what some of you want then it will hurt healers in operation and flashpoints.

 

Maybe instead of yelling all the time about nerfing something you come up with a better soluation that doesn't effect pve when you complain about something in pvp.

 

That's what Expertise is for. Right now, Expertise gives healing buff. Drop the buff from expertise, and you nerf healing in PvP without touching PvE. The only real problem with that is that not all healers need the same nerf. Operatives/Scoundrels for example are MUCH more potent and problematic than Mandos/Mercs.

[Cretinus]

Unfortunately there's nothing that can be done with the current matchmaking system. Just like a big group of dps wipes the floor with everything, a group of healers prevents anything from dying. The thing is, we can MAKE it better by respeccing in warzones to balanced teams. One tank, two healers, five dps. This would make things better, in my opinion.

 

Sorry, but you're putting the cart before the horse. Respeccing in WZs is not a solution to the problem, but actually the cause of the problem. When a team has two nodes, everybody will respecc to heal or tank and that was it. Heal and tank combos are so strong at the moment, that it's nearly impossible to recap anything.

[MotorCityMan]

Easy fix, nerf the living hell out of healers. At least back to where they use to be at 50.

 

People too often think in terms of nerfs. Think outside the box a little bit. How bout making the nodes easier to capture? How bout making the nodes so that they must be recaptured every 2 mins? How bout adding a node to every warzone? How bout adding new objectives? Healing is a problem when you have deathmatch scenarios like voidstar. But so is everything a problem then. Tanking, tank guarding, or one ability being OP. (Watch the video of ranked 5 smashers killing everything with their AoES in that instance).

 

People that see nerfs as their solution to every problem are poor armchair developers.

[Darth_Acherus]

People too often think in terms of nerfs. Think outside the box a little bit. How bout making the nodes easier to capture? How bout making the nodes so that they must be recaptured every 2 mins? How bout adding a node to every warzone? How bout adding new objectives? Healing is a problem when you have deathmatch scenarios like voidstar. But so is everything a problem then. Tanking, tank guarding, or one ability being OP. (Watch the video of ranked 5 smashers killing everything with their AoES in that instance).

 

People that see nerfs as their solution to every problem are poor armchair developers.

 

Healing is too powerful atm. Needs nerfed. Healers shouldn't be tanking multiple people ever.

 

Level 50 balance was fine.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Darth_Acherus

[JackNader]

*Operative healers need to have their healing output more dependent on their casted abilities.

*Mercs healers need a healing boost.

*Expertise healing debuff needs to be adjusted again

*Marauder/Sniper healing debuff should not respect the global cooldown, have no damage component and be boosted to 30%

*Cross healing bonus's need to go.

*Powertechs need some burst back

*Marauders need the range of obfuscation increased and their general mitigation lowered.

*Smash marauders need their perma snare on leap removed.

*lol roll needs a cooldown.

*Deception needs to have its maul damage shifted into discharge/shock. Low slash's needs a longer cooldown.

*Hunker down needs its cooldown increased or its duration cut in half.

*Madness sorcs need more efficient force management

*Madness sins need a complete revamp.

*Debilitate should be on a 1m cooldown like every other 4 second stun.

*Snipers flashbang should be 10m

[Volxen]

Cross-healing is not anymore "ridiculous" than focus fire is. They are both extremely effective in warzones. The difference is that most pugs are not capable of coordinated focus fire, which is why you typically only see it successfully executed by premades.

 

Asking for a cross-healing debuff makes as much sense as asking for a focus fire debuff (i.e., a debuff that would limit the damage you can take from focus fire). In other words, it's not going to happen.

[Tankqull]

the main problem is the unequal distribution of healing classes to the matches, having a WZ-simulation with 8 classes unable to respec to be a healer vs 4(+)healer + tank is nothing but rubbish.

 

to lessen the impact of cross- and selfhealing change the perks granting +x% to incomming heals of the heal classes to be only outgoing with slightly higher values.

 

reduce the rusetimer of the healdebuff attacks.

[Atramar]

1 healer cannot out hps 2 GOOD DDs... 1 healer can out hps 3 bad DDs.

2 good DDs have their interrupt, stunns, debuffs, healer got his.

1 good DD can reduce effectivness of healer to 0.

 

nerf healers and you will have more whine about 'we have no healers again, great WZ it gonna be'.

remember, you complain on healers on enemy team, but same healers are on your team.

[Ergecrs]

I can pull up about a million threads about how bad TTK was pre 2.0. As a matter of fact right as 2.0 Hit everyone complaining about how much damage output was going in warzones. People complaining to much burst. Now its to many heals. So let me get this right one DPS should be able to Kill a healer with out having to worry about stuns and interrupts ? Ya sorry as a healer I should be able to keep myself alive against one DPS pretty much as long as I have force. If I cant I'm ineffective as a healer.

 

I'm honestly sick of dps complaining about healers. You wont get your high numbers IF YOUR DEAD. Do yall enjoy being dead ? Do you like respawn points cause that's what your asking for a Zerg fest. A match where everyone dies in one GCD.

 

Sorry no if you nerf healers once again you will have none. Right now every match I can get 1 million heals in a dps player has atleast 1 million damage. Its balanced and the poor derp dps players who cant interrupt or stun are made they cant roll their face over the keyboard and kill a healer.

[Odahviin]

I can pull up about a million threads about how bad TTK was pre 2.0. As a matter of fact right as 2.0 Hit everyone complaining about how much damage output was going in warzones. People complaining to much burst. Now its to many heals. So let me get this right one DPS should be able to Kill a healer with out having to worry about stuns and interrupts ? Ya sorry as a healer I should be able to keep myself alive against one DPS pretty much as long as I have force. If I cant I'm ineffective as a healer.

 

I'm honestly sick of dps complaining about healers. You wont get your high numbers IF YOUR DEAD. Do yall enjoy being dead ? Do you like respawn points cause that's what your asking for a Zerg fest. A match where everyone dies in one GCD.

 

Sorry no if you nerf healers once again you will have none. Right now every match I can get 1 million heals in a dps player has atleast 1 million damage. Its balanced and the poor derp dps players who cant interrupt or stun are made they cant roll their face over the keyboard and kill a healer.

 

Cross healing is the issue, not individual healers.

 

IMO the issue does need to be addressed, as it creates stalemates which are not enjoyable for either side.

[Ergecrs]

Cross healing is the issue, not individual healers.

 

IMO the issue does need to be addressed, as it creates stalemates which are not enjoyable for either side.

 

I think they need to nerf Cross damage. if one dps is attacking me damage from another dps should be nerfed.

 

Now same argument how stupid does that sound ? If you nerf cross healing your gonna kill ranked. Two healers in a ranked match can barely keep people up against a good group of players focus firing.

 

The problem is bad players make good players look like gods.

[Biotic_Warlock]

I've played as an operative healer and have managed to outheal 3 dps users (they seemed not to be interested in the fact I was stopping them getting a kill). I think the main factor is the Surgical probe ability which (with another perk on same row) gives amost unlimited healing ability when the ally is <30% health for a lot of hp (about 8-12% or about).

That same ability also makes them very powerful PVE healers - once managing to keep a team of 4 below 40% hp alive for half the boss fight in "Boarding Party" with the 4 generators, 2 bots and the engineer.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Biotic_Warlock

[Tragamite]

Just did a match...over 900k damage (not AoE spec either, all targeted), only 3 kills and 1 death. Thankfully I had a good healer on my team, too...

 

Matches without deaths are just not that fun.

 

Not fun for you maybe but for the healers these are the best. Your stats are inflated because of them too! Look at it this way, the average player in a WZ has about 26k health if there was no healing at all then it would take 35 solo kills to get 900k damage.

 

Part of the challenge of PvP is dealing with the opposing forces composition. Healers need to be taken out of the fight not necessarily killed.

 

I mostly play tanks so my job is to harass everyone. I don't deal a lot of damage so I'm not going to utterly destroy anyone. DPS loves to just annihilate people, healers love keeping people alive and tanks love getting attacked allowing the other 2 to do their job.

 

While I understand where you are coming from look at it from a healer point of view and you'll see that they are as thrilled as you are getting 50 kills when noone dies on their watch.

[Darkshadz]

Just did a match...over 900k damage (not AoE spec either, all targeted), only 3 kills and 1 death. Thankfully I had a good healer on my team, too...

 

Matches without deaths are just not that fun.

 

How much total damage for the rest of your team?

[kweassa]

I think they need to nerf Cross damage. if one dps is attacking me damage from another dps should be nerfed.

 

Now same argument how stupid does that sound ? If you nerf cross healing your gonna kill ranked. Two healers in a ranked match can barely keep people up against a good group of players focus firing.

 

The problem is bad players make good players look like gods.

 

Exactly. Cross healing is simply a part of the game, just as focus fire is. The only difference is former is easier to coordinate than the latter, but not in anyway that's too difficult for PuGs.

 

Usually, a team consisted of at least 3~4 experienced players don't even need any voice input or chat coordination. We can just watch and observe how the fight progresses and imemdiately take our positions in doing what we must. In many cases you don't even need to actually kill the healers -- relentless harassment from even a single good player is usually enough to drive them running like cattle, or keep them from effectively healing anyone. Just two or three of these determined harassers and effectively enemy heal efficiency drops lower than 30% of normal at the least.

 

The reason why it is difficult to fight against multiple healers usually comes not from difficulty of stopping enemy heals, but usualy from THE SHORTCOMING OF YOUR OWN TEAM'S HEALERS AND THE REST OF THE TEAM. Really. It's called "lack of coordination".

 

When harassers take positions and start pressing enemy healers, if the enemy team has a few smart people, immediately they start to peel. The healers run towards the back, which means the harassers need to keep on them and go deep in the midst of enemy formation. This is the point when your own team's tanks and healers are needed the most, so they can taunt some of the peelers, CC the rest, and the healer needs to be fast and accurate enough to keep both the harassers and the tanks alive.

 

Usually, failure to keep the enemy healers under check happens when your team's harassers aren't supported properly so they die out first. In turn, that usually happens when the team's main tank and healer players are too timid and narrow-sighted/target fixated, that they only engage the enemy nearest to them and fail to see the 'big picture'., When your harassers go deep to keep on the enemy healers, the tanks and healers and rest of the support also need to go a little deeper than usual to keep them alive. This is where usually PuGs fail, since they don't have the concept of 'team coordination', their perception over the entire battlefield is usually limited to maybe a 10m radius around.

 

The healers themselves are never the problem. It's always your own team's problem first.

[sanchito]

That's what Expertise is for. Right now, Expertise gives healing buff. Drop the buff from expertise, and you nerf healing in PvP without touching PvE. The only real problem with that is that not all healers need the same nerf. Operatives/Scoundrels for example are MUCH more potent and problematic than Mandos/Mercs.

 

This ain't working. Drop the healing buff from expertise and all healers will use pve gear. You could change the pvp trauma debuff though

[Capt_Beers]

Cross healing is very strong for many reasons:

 

- The Pyro/assault nerf. One of the best healer killers was redesigned as a DoT class with the lowest hitting "big hitter."

 

- All those Pyro/Assault spec are now tanks. Lord knows there was a lot of them and now they all switched to tank spec. Or at least dumped AP/TD in favor of Riot Gas/Oil Slick.

 

- Healing is strong. So people are dusting off their healers. If healing was weak no one would play them.

 

- Scoundrels are somewhat pigeon holed in to healing. It's their strongest PvP tree and it also happens to be the strongest healing tree. So we have a lot players playing the only spec people want their class to play.

 

- Aside form all the PT/VG respecs more people are playing tanks because tanks can actually function much better in 2.0. There is no question on whether or not to use tank gear anymore, there are still some hybrids but if you wanna go full tank you get tank gear now.

 

- Everyone got a movement buff. People are more mobile and able to escape better and survive longer for healers to get to them. I know HtL/Electro Net increased my Commandos survivability by a large amount.

 

- Survivablity was increased as a whole. Lots of classes/specs got root breakers, people got additional def. CD's or damage reduction. Everyone is stronger, except Balance Shadows and Assault VG's.

[Tragamite]

Cross healing is the issue, not individual healers.

 

IMO the issue does need to be addressed, as it creates stalemates which are not enjoyable for either side.

 

Cross healing is NOT the issue it's group composition. A good ranked group knows how to compose a group. Most of the best teams I've seen carry 1 tank 3 heals and 4 DPS.

 

The tank shields whoever is being focused healers cross heal and keep everyone alive and DPS deal the death blows.

 

In pugs you don't get to dictate the composition.