KBN's Guide to Combat Spec (or: how to sentinel tank)

[Aldozer]

Has it been clarified what the best way to dps with combat is - dulfy or the regular that kbn suggests?

 

Because dulfy's guide suggests using twin saber throw and dispatch before precision slash while kbn suggest using them after precision slash.

 

I been using them after all the time but not so sure anymore. The problem with dulfy's way is that sometimes you have to wait for TST to be off cd.

 

Besides - is it better to wait for masterstrike when you have zen or should I just pop zen when it comes up and use 4 abilities after precision slash?

[Ardarell_Solo]

Been messing around with Combat a lot the last couple days. I think I've found a really good window for Master Strike that still allows two BS and a Dispatch as well as MS all under the two PS window. I got it off fairly consistently tonight.

 

So, I read earlier in this thread about using Dispatch prior to Precision Slash and having it still hit under the Precision Slash buff. Playing with that I've found that using Dispatch->PS->MS->BS you can get Dispatch, MS and BS all under the PS window. You have to cancel MS, but can still get all 6 hits. So, the total window looks something along the lines of:

PS->BS->BR->BR->Strike->Disp->PS->MS->BS

 

Hey KNJ, back to your brilliant guide after a while and reading all the new comments. Mostly, when you don't comment on comments and don't incorporate them in your opening post, I assume they're not making sense.

 

E.g. I hardly believe you should use an accuracy augment to go for just 2 slots of accuracy in your regular gear in order to be able to use one more surge slot, as I don't believe sacrificing 32 main stat in an augment is made up for by a (questionable) better distribution of a tertiary stat?

 

Secondly, how about the above post: I noticed it actually does work, but it would seem to me you're delaying PS by doing that for one GCD in every single precision window - with what I've learned from your guide would be a DPS loss that's probably not to be made up for by the DPS gain of one more Dispatch under Precision Slash. Right?

 

Alright, so I DID not just assume but ask you point blank ;-) Thanks for a short clarification, if you'd be so kind...

Edited May 19, 2014 by Ardarell_Solo

[Ardarell_Solo]

As I can't find too many Combat parses theses days: Roughly how much DPS should I be doing with current gear?

 

I can manage 3750s, my best is 3780. Don't know what that's worth given Trills 3892, which seems extremely hard to get...

[TrillOG-]

As I can't find too many Combat parses theses days: Roughly how much DPS should I be doing with current gear?

 

I can manage 3750s, my best is 3780. Don't know what that's worth given Trills 3892, which seems extremely hard to get...

Honestly 3750 isn't bad. Just like all specs there's little things here and there which will boost your dps little by little.

I can also confirm that you shouldn't use an accuracy aug to fill put in more surge. 32 str > * surge. With 186 gear you can reach 100% accuracy with 1 less acc. piece so there's not much to worry about there however I need to do some parsing once I get my last implant to see which is more beneficial the extra OH hits or surge. I'm guessing it'll be surge but need to test it out.

3700+ is decent with combat in 78's.

 

Oh and this is my personal best, really need to get that last accuracy piece to get rid of the 101.26% accuracy

http://www.torparse.com/a/678711/time/1400656994/1400657252/0/Damage+Dealt

I also just realized I was in my pvp spec so I A. Didn't have double proccing relics and B. Was missing 4% force crit... may have been over 4k... g.....g

Edited May 24, 2014 by TrillOG-

[Ardarell_Solo]

Hey Trill, thanks for answering and all the info, really appreciate!

 

I actually have better gear than just 78s, it's with three 81 armorings, a couple 81 mods and both implants, so I don't know... Here's my best parse (3780 is if calculated by TTK): http://www.torparse.com/a/678670

My Crits are a bit lower than those in your parses (I play 68 Crit in Combat), but I don't think that would be more than 50ish DPS. Also I haven't tried the double Berserk trick for the start and I've been using reusable adrenal.

 

Either way your rotation looks absolutely superior. Congrats on that second parse, geez!!! :-) Major differences I noticed:

You can pull off doing Twin Saber throw before your first Gore and actually get it to hit inside Gore AND still have 3 more hits inside that Gore window, wow! I can only do that with Vicious Throw (sub 30% before first Gore and generally before second - and even that not reliably), with TST it seems a lot harder to accomplish without the last attack failing to register inside Gore. That's why I refrained from trying that with TST and am now rather saving it as an emergency skill inside Gore when I'm low on Rage.

 

Secondly you never ever use Ravage outside Gore, I do it under the circumstances KNJ suggested. Probably not such a good idea...

 

Man, this is really hard if you've been playing Watchman and Hybrid all the time! Plus it's way more difficult to transfer dummy dps to actual boss fights than in both other specs and I lack the experience. It's just that it seems the one and only viable spec for Brontes NiM, so I'm trying hard atm...

 

Edit: As I said I do have both 81 implants, both with accuracy, and that puts me at 99,98% accuracy. I did about 10 trys with those two implants and more surge via enhancements - I got lower averages than with 3 accuracy slots (2 in 86 and 1 in 81 tier then). So I think it's still better to go with 3 slots of accuracy, even in full 81s.

Edited May 21, 2014 by Ardarell_Solo

[Aldozer]

I've been trying to up my dps but I'm pretty much stuck at 3.5k which is low imo. What am I doing wrong and how can I improve? http://www.torparse.com/a/682863

 

Been using tst and dispatch before gore but not sure.

[Ardarell_Solo]

Without having taken a closer look: Your APM is definitely too low, no matter the rotation. You're at 47,6 and you should be close to 50. Have you keybound your abilities or do you click them?

[Aldozer]

Yes I am using keybinds. Just started doing it. Dunno but I am saving zen for ps window - activating it just like 2 abilties before. Should I use it instantly?

[Ardarell_Solo]

Yes I am using keybinds. Just started doing it. Dunno but I am saving zen for ps window - activating it just like 2 abilties before. Should I use it instantly?

 

Absolutely, pop it on cooldown - otherwise you're losing time and thus APM.

[Aldozer]

Got my dps and apm up a little popping zen earlier than usual. 3564: http://www.torparse.com/a/683805. Even messed up a bit because I just started keybinding.

But obviously the difference between 48 and 49 apm isn't equal to the difference between 3.5k and 3.8k dps. So there must be something wrong with my rotation:(

Edited May 27, 2014 by Aldozer

[justinplainview]

Got my dps and apm up a little popping zen earlier than usual. 3564: http://www.torparse.com/a/683805. Even messed up a bit because I just started keybinding.

But obviously the difference between 48 and 49 apm isn't equal to the difference between 3.5k and 3.8k dps. So there must be something wrong with my rotation:(

 

See, but Combat is not a spec that consistently parses 3.8k by even the top Combat players in the world. I've seen 3.8 parses, of course, I've seen players such as Trill, Yolo, Beastfury, Ranick, El'ethon etc push the DPS ceiling of the spec, but some, if not all of those people admit that the spec has a.... let's say "soft ceiling" that can only be lifted with solid crit %'s and RNG. I could be wrong, but I USUALLY see Combat/Carnage parsers hit 3.6-3.7k in BiS 78's with 4 piece when they are the top percentile of players in that spec. Anything higher has SEEMED to be RNG. Again, I could be wrong.

 

Switching gears....

 

KBN, if you could help me with a few things, I'd greatly appreciate it. First, a gear question, then a parse question.

 

1. I currently have a 2 piece set bonus (half DF, half UW). What will the DPS increase be going from a 2 piece to a 4 piece? Right now, I'm running 151 crit, 111.5 force accuracy, bonus damage is 1666.4, blabla will post my AMR.

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/8d05eac5-72fe-44f2-845e-0bfd1e1cd7e1

What would I gain from going from 2 piece that's half UW half DF to full DF (I imagine the difference would be within the margin of error). What would I gain going from 2 piece to 4 piece thats 3/4ths UW 1/4 DF? Or 1/2 and 1/2? Not expecting you to literally answer each variation, I'm just on a stream of thoughts here.

 

As for parsing, on a 1 million dummy with armor debuff, I am at 3.3k-3.4k. Average parses are at 3300-3310, the good ones are 3360-3375, and my oh look at the RNGod parses are at 3405-3410 with my lil' ol 2 piece. If you notice in this parse I'm about to link, my opener IS different than yours, just because I don't like the RNG aspect of getting a proc or not getting a proc, as the opener I use I can at least guarantee in a parse. Not saying it's superior, I actually think it's not, but at least it's a variable I can control in the opener of each parse to try and gauge between each parse when I go through the logs.

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/684074

 

That was a single parse, with no fishing for crits, earlier this morning, just to give you a baseline. Not my best, not my worst. A fairly good average to give you, actually. Apologies for being so longwinded, and this post will get a ton of TLDR jokes, but is my DPS in a good place considering the gear (everything else save for one implant and the set bonus armorings are BiS)? Or should I be able to pull 3.5k without the 4 piece? Would love to hear your thoughts.

 

Additionally, I'd like to thank you and oofalong for recently having conversations (seperately) in posts about Crit for Sents/Maras. Before, when I ran zero crit, I was at roughly 3.1k-3.2k at the top. I've been playing around with variations of 69 crit, 110 crit and 151 crit. I have found the last of the three to be the sweet spot for me, as I can guarantee a 3.3k on 151 10/10 parses, whereas with 110, I could get it ~80% of the time, and with 69 crit ~60% of the time. Maybe i can run LESS crit than 151 once I get the 4 piece weaponmaster set bonus? I'm thinking I MIGHT be able to go down to 69 crit, but I'm not averse to staying at 151 if necessary.

Edited May 27, 2014 by justinplainview

[Ardarell_Solo]

I've been experimenting a bit with increasing focus before Precision, so I can squeeze in Riposte as well. Tried it on a Makeb world boss (Bilinguis) and got my APM to 56,89, including lots Def CDs of course: http://www.torparse.com/a/687359/time/1401518766/1401518864/0/Damage+Dealt

 

What do you think: Is it worth it, having an even weaker focus building phase, since you need more focus before precision, but therefore have that extra attack under precision?

[KeyboardNinja]

I've been experimenting a bit with increasing focus before Precision, so I can squeeze in Riposte as well. Tried it on a Makeb world boss (Bilinguis) and got my APM to 56,89, including lots Def CDs of course: http://www.torparse.com/a/687359/time/1401518766/1401518864/0/Damage+Dealt

 

What do you think: Is it worth it, having an even weaker focus building phase, since you need more focus before precision, but therefore have that extra attack under precision?

 

In a word: yes. The rule I like to follow is the fact that Strike + Riposte does more damage than Slash for less focus cost. Getting Riposte under Precision Slash makes that even more interesting.

 

The problem of course is that you need to be defending things. :-) Very little raid damage is melee/range, so it's pretty hard to get Riposte to proc reliably in a boss setting (much less a dummy). The nice bit though is that in the situations where you do get consistent Riposte procs, you're probably also getting consistent Rebuke procs and thus extra focus generation. I've used that in a couple of places (Grob'thok HM with a really fail tank, or Styrak also with fail tanks), but it's certainly a highly situational trick.

[Aku_Soku_Zan]

Hey all,

 

I’m looking for some suggestions as to how to bring up my dps from it’s average of just over 3400. My most recent 1 mill dummy parse (and there are only a few as my attention span usually only allows me to do 500k parses) can be viewed here:

http://www.torparse.com/a/689072/24/0/Overview

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/f107cb15-c661-4a70-946f-2409815fcef6

 

Aside from the two obvious missed Blade Storm crits, which I never do so no clue what happened there, any glaring mistakes you can point out? Thanks in advance.

 

P.S. Dón-Quíjote, I’m the guy you’ve been talking to on your 2-man TC youtube chat. You asked for a 1 mill parse a while back so here it is; feel free to critique as harshly as you’d like.

[justinplainview]

So after checking out more parses by top Combat players, as well as finally getting a 4 piece set bonus *3 UW, 1 DF*, I was able to really improve my top DPS on a dummy. On Parsec it said 3606, but Torparse moved it down to 3583, but either way it's a marked improvement for me.

Torparse: http://www.torparse.com/a/687346

AMR: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/fa48514f-f4b3-4c90-aa12-3b7cbb7fad5e

And just for fun, the screencap right after the parse, because I was proud of myself for finally getting past that 3.4k barrier I've been stuck at. http://s9.postimg.org/93xilz5tp/bestparse.jpg

 

With me still having 3 UW armorings, still needing an implant, and not knowing whether or not 69 crit is more beneficial than 138 crit (which was the best for me with a 2 piece after a tonnnnnn of parses, but I haven't tried to get rid of any crit now that I have a 4 piece), I feel like I can really eek out some 3.7k parses.

[Ardarell_Solo]

In a word: yes. The rule I like to follow is the fact that Strike + Riposte does more damage than Slash for less focus cost. Getting Riposte under Precision Slash makes that even more interesting.

 

The problem of course is that you need to be defending things. :-) Very little raid damage is melee/range, so it's pretty hard to get Riposte to proc reliably in a boss setting (much less a dummy). The nice bit though is that in the situations where you do get consistent Riposte procs, you're probably also getting consistent Rebuke procs and thus extra focus generation. I've used that in a couple of places (Grob'thok HM with a really fail tank, or Styrak also with fail tanks), but it's certainly a highly situational trick.

 

Hey, that's very valuable feedback, thx! I hadn't even thought about just replacing a focus spender by Strike+Riposte. Brillant option, since saving focus for when you MIGHT be able to do it, is not very practical, but if you just go Strike+Riposte you don't have to. Nice! :-)

[ML_DoubleTap]

In a word: yes. The rule I like to follow is the fact that Strike + Riposte does more damage than Slash for less focus cost. Getting Riposte under Precision Slash makes that even more interesting.

 

The problem of course is that you need to be defending things. :-) Very little raid damage is melee/range, so it's pretty hard to get Riposte to proc reliably in a boss setting (much less a dummy). The nice bit though is that in the situations where you do get consistent Riposte procs, you're probably also getting consistent Rebuke procs and thus extra focus generation. I've used that in a couple of places (Grob'thok HM with a really fail tank, or Styrak also with fail tanks), but it's certainly a highly situational trick.

 

Rebuke rocks for relatively small raid damage. I always ask to be the last to get a cleanse or not at all on Nefra.

 

Added almost 50dps on my last NiM Nefra kill. Nothing crazy, but it's free and reduces damage and strain on healers

Edited June 4, 2014 by ML_DoubleTap

[KeyboardNinja]

Rebuke rocks for relatively small raid damage. I always ask to be the last to get a cleanse or not at all on Nefra.

 

Added almost 50dps on my last NiM Nefra kill. Nothing crazy, but it's free and reduces damage and strain on healers

 

My best Nefra parse (3750) was one where the healers were doing fairly poorly, and so I didn't get cleansed even once throughout the entire fight. I was SWIMMING in centering. Because the healers weren't doing well, I had gotten a chance to practice a bit with the focus return from a full DoT tick out during Rebuke during earlier wipes, which meant that I was able to use it as a straight offensive CD and not waste the focus.

 

Ah, good times! :-)

Edited June 4, 2014 by KeyboardNinja

[Projawa]

Honestly 3750 isn't bad. Just like all specs there's little things here and there which will boost your dps little by little.

 

What are some of the little things you do to cumulatively boost your dps?

[Spartanator]

How much surge do people run? I am currently in a dilemma for my stat structure. Could someone list of their current stats ratio at least for surge, crit and accuracy (which I know should be 100/110%) so that I have a good idea of where I need to go? Preferably from someone who has a higher parse and good gear (so I know the max of where I can go). Or even better a link to Askmrrobot. Thanks! Edited July 7, 2014 by Spartanator
New question

[TACeMossie]

How much surge do people run? I am currently in a dilemma for my stat structure. Could someone list of their current stats ratio at least for surge, crit and accuracy (which I know should be 100/110%) so that I have a good idea of where I need to go? Preferably from someone who has a higher parse and good gear (so I know the max of where I can go). Or even better a link to Askmrrobot. Thanks!

 

From a quick read over the OP, i'd say use the following AMR

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/e95760a7-1df0-4b23-ba59-4f31eb3779b5

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[PlacJac]

Hi guys one question about my statos (full78 mimplants DM):

crit rating 109

acc 99,88%

surge rating 750

So, i got doubt about crit rating (too low?) and in particular about surge rating, i have reached the cap or not? in this case is better if i put an alacrity enhanc?

Ty for attention

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

Hi guys one question about my statos (full78 mimplants DM):

crit rating 109

acc 99,88%

surge rating 750

So, i got doubt about crit rating (too low?) and in particular about surge rating, i have reached the cap or not? in this case is better if i put an alacrity enhanc?

Ty for attention

 

(Ignore this first sentence, i almost forgot that this was a Combat thread). Your crit is OK, i tend to go for around 200 Crit as Combat. Your accuracy should be at 100% Melee and 110% Force accuracy, nothing more, nothing less. and NEVER put ANY Alacrity enhancements in your gear. Even if youve hit the Surge and Accuracy Cap, keep stacking that Surge.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Kaos_KidSWTOR

[g_mK]

Hi guys one question about my statos (full78 mimplants DM):

crit rating 109

acc 99,88%

surge rating 750

So, i got doubt about crit rating (too low?) and in particular about surge rating, i have reached the cap or not? in this case is better if i put an alacrity enhanc?

Ty for attention

 

I would drop one might augment for accuracy. I have played with anything from 0 to 300 crit, and have yet to make a real conclusion. I tend to run about 150 or one mod and enhancement.

[Kurkina]

Has anybody looked at and tried the concepts that can be found HERE on dulfy.net? I find the guide very confusing and counter-intuitive after months of using KBN's system, particularily the following:

 

In the section that details the "15-20 second rotation", there seems to be a delay in between the 2 PS windows. It is scripted as:

 

Zen+TST+PS -- [MS -- BR -- BS] -- (ZS -- Str -- Caut) -- Disp+PS -- [bR -- BR -- BS]

 

I found 2 immediate problems with this. First of all, trying to fit [MS -- BR -- BS] into the first PS window (albeit under Zen) is playing with fire, and of course Zen won't be available everytime this comes up. Secondly, fitting 3 abilities (ZS -- Str -- Caut) between windows more often then not delays use the second PS proc. This then will ultimately misalign the windows as the fight goes on.

 

I do understand that the above example is indeed simply an example, and that the heart of the guide is a flexible priority system (detailed later in the guide), but the question remains: is that viable? Has anyone tried this?